Why doesn't Atheists go away?

[Hollie]

Every rabid atheist I've ever met has been disappointed by religion in some way. Usually it is because they didn't get something they wanted. One prayed that his brother would be returned from the dead. Another had a mother that prayed really really hard not to die of cancer and died. I've met atheists that had a failed bargain (If we get a good snow so I can go skiing, it's a sign that God exists). If God exists, why doesn't he worship ME. If there was really a God, no one would ever die, get sick, grow old, have car accidents or stub their toes. When I was a child first questioning the existence of God, I was convinced that there was no God because movies required paid tickets to get in. In a Just and Godly world, no one would have to pay for movie tickets.

Those are awfully petty, and none of those are even close to why many people left the church. I'm sure there are some people who did leave because of such childish reasons, but I don't know of any.

In my experience, it was two things: The first, being that I got tired of the hypocrisy. "Love thy neighbor" and "Help the poor" mean nothing if you spew venom about your neighbors whilst in the pews and scream at homeless people to get a job.

The second was just that, personally, I didn't feel the faith. I never asked for anything absurd like bringing people back from the dead, because I knew that was impossible unless you were, like, Jesus. I never asked for anything petty because I believed solidly in the phrase "God helps those who help themselves". Sure, sometimes people needed help, but that's when Good Christians were supposed to help those in need... help them help themselves.

I saw none of that growing up. I think that's why I lost the faith.

That said, I'm not a rabid atheist. I'm just... a nonbeliever.

I grew out of such nonsense. Atheists grow into such nonsense. God is the concierge of mankind. He exists to serve mankind and since not everyone wins the lottery, He cannot exist. It is a flaw in the atheist understanding of the nature of God and the relationship between Man and God.

I would hope that most people don't think that way. We are but puny humans, and no deity - whether it be God or Zeus or Shiva - is going to answer petty prayers.

God sometimes does answer petty prayers. I made one. I prayed for a new car because mine was so decrepit and my life depended on a car. I got my car, even though it ended up being a torment. Sometimes God answers prayers no one has made. He bestows gifts no one has asked for. That too happened to me. My relationship with the Lord is intensely personal. You have lost your faith. That has nothing to do with God. It means you have lost your faith. Possibly because you put that faith in other men.

So..... you have made your god into a used car salesman.

Isn't that kind of belittling?

 

[Derideo_Te]

False standard. Only if the atheist can show unquestionably that God does not exist. Empirically and philosophically, such cannot be done.

Watching Derideo_Te online and reading his posts this last while he has been here, one realizes that he does fit the True Believer.

It was Wry Catcher that set the standard of equivalency. Why don't you address your complaint to him instead? Then again you also got your following statement wrong as well as your third.

Congratulations on your 2nd strike out in a row. You do get points for consistency though.

The fact is that you can't accept your limitations. Neither philosophy nor empiricism supports the atheist's claim. That's your problem, and you can't over come it.

What alleged claim would that be?

 

[Derideo_Te]

Isn't Atheism equivalent to Fundamentalism? Both being sets of True believers.

Only if you can prove that unquestioning faith in the word of God and peer reviewed scientific knowledge are exactly equivalent.

Huh? Peer reviewed scientific knowledge is a posteriori; faith is a priori; the former is not existing in the mind prior to or independent of experience and the latter is existing in the mind prior to and independent of experience.

Your response is a classic example of apples and aardvarks 'reasoning'.

Ironic!

 

[Wry Catcher]

Only if you can prove that unquestioning faith in the word of God and peer reviewed scientific knowledge are exactly equivalent.

Huh? Peer reviewed scientific knowledge is a posteriori; faith is a priori; the former is not existing in the mind prior to or independent of experience and the latter is existing in the mind prior to and independent of experience.

Your response is a classic example of apples and aardvarks 'reasoning'.

Ironic!

Huh? If you disagree don't respond with ad hominem light; post the error in my reasoning or be a smart ass. I don't care which. I've already judged you.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Isn't Atheism equivalent to Fundamentalism? Both being sets of True believers.

Only if you can prove that unquestioning faith in the word of God and peer reviewed scientific knowledge are exactly equivalent.

Atheism stems not from a lack of information, but from a lack of understanding. The Bible contains all the science we need to uncover the mysteries of the universe.

Consider the dimension, 'Time'. Was time a dimension long before Einstein realized it, or did it become a dimension contingent upon the capability of Einstein's scientific brain?

How about an expanding universe? Einstein had no idea the universe was expanding. Hubble proved it to him with a telescope. That proved to Einstein that the universe had a beginning point.

Then there is scientific Bible knowledge:
...At the briefest instant following creation all the matter of the universe was concentrated in a very small place, no larger than a grain of mustard. The matter at this time was very thin, so intangible, that it did not have real substance. It did have, however, a potential to gain substance and form and to become tangible matter. From the initial concentration of this intangible substance in its minute location, the substance expanded, expanding the universe as it did so. As the expansion progressed, a change in the substance occurred. This initially thin non corporeal substance took on the tangible aspects of matter as we know it. From this initial act of creation, from this ethereally thin pseudo substance, everything that has existed, or will ever exist, was, is, and will be formed. ~Nahmanides

11 dimensions can be found in the Bible. AND:
Bible readers also know that dimensions can be torn, burned, rolled....... A scientific fact that atheist scientists haven't reached/understood yet.

Do you know which dimension allowed Jesus to appear and disappear? 6.

Here are some examples:

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief; when it comes, the heavens will disappear with a horrific noise, and the celestial bodies will melt away in a blaze, and the earth and every deed done on it will be laid bare.

2 Peter 3:11 Since all these things are to melt away in this manner, what sort of people must we be, conducting our lives in holiness and godliness,

2 Peter 3:12 while waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God? Because of this day, the heavens will be burned up and dissolve, and the celestial bodies will melt away in a blaze!

Revelation 6:14 The sky was split apart like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved from its place.

Here are some more:

Vilon – is the word for curtain or tent as where god stretches out the heavens. (Isaiah 40:22)

Rakia – refers to the physical or visible heavens containing the sun, moon and stars (Genesis 1:17).

Shechakim – refers to the atmosphere (Psalm 78:23).

Zevul – is the habitation where god’s glory exists as in the heavenlycCity (Isaiah 63:15).

Maon – is the place where angels reside from which come songs (Psalm 42:8)

Machon – refers to the storehouses where the treasures of rain, snow and hail reside (Deuteronomy 26:15).

Aravot – is the storehouse of righteousness and peace, where angel beings reside and possibly the spirits of those not yet born in waiting(Psalm 6:4).

God said we have all the scientific knowledge available by understanding Genesis.
Nachmanides proved it. He gleaned at least 10 dimensions from Genesis, way back in the 1400's, with out a Hadron Collider.

What you have learned from a 20th century atheist:
I think there might be 10 dimensions! ~ Hawking

 

[Glensather]

Wow, what version of the Bible do you have, cause mine doesn't mention any of these things.

 

[The Irish Ram]

most current religions forces you to choose facts or faith.

Then there is the Bible which provides both.

 

[Truthmatters]

Only to those who have faith the bible is it fact

 

[Glensather]

most current religions forces you to choose facts or faith.

Then there is the Bible which provides both.

Eh, that's subjective IMO.
At least you back up your words, though, good on you!

Course it's only a matter of time before TM says "YOU CANT BACK UP YOUR WORDS WITH FICTION" or somesuch.

EDIT: Oh look I was right.

 

[Truthmatters]

the people wjo wrote the bible did not have access to the facts about our world that we have now.

They tried as best they could but were incorrect.

sodam and Gamorah was not bombed with fire by god.

It was an asteriod that created a plume that then dropped on the location and killed the people.


did you know sceince had figured that one out?

 

[Glensather]

the people wjo wrote the bible did not have access to the facts about our world that we have now.

They tried as best they could but were incorrect.

sodam and Gamorah was not bombed with fire by god.

It was an asteriod that created a plume that then dropped on the location and killed the people.


did you know sceince had figured that one out?

Link that. Prove it. I've never heard any such thing.
And you know what? I'm not religious and can tell you that just proves the existence of the Divine. A planet this big, and an asteroid hits 2 towns in the middle of the Middle East (or somewhere around there), and causes no other major climate change within that area? Sounds divine to me.

What you just said is horseshit and you know it.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Wow, what version of the Bible do you have, cause mine doesn't mention any of these things.

Someone must be stealing pages from your Bible.
If your Bible still has Revelation, what happens to the Rakia(< described in Genesis 1:17) during Rev. 6:14? And what does it tell you about the dimension recorded in Gen 1:17?

 

[Truthmatters]

Researchers: Asteroid Destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah | Fox News

 

[Glensather]

The Bible makes no mention of dimensions anywhere. It says that God created the firmament (Universe), heavens and the earth. I can stretch that and say that makes 3 dimensions, going by how I figure biblical times would view such things. But nowhere does it mention any of those words you brought up.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but maybe I don't have the insight you do. To me, it reads basically like the Lord tears the very sky apart, which I can determine means he literally rips the atmosphere away, or maybe the ozone layer, with such force it destroys islands and mountains.

 

[Truthmatters]

You see the people who wrote the bible did not have the sceince we have today to explain events they heard about or witnessed.

If you are suffeing from cancer to you want the people from the bible to treat you or modern sceince?

 

[Derideo_Te]

Huh? Peer reviewed scientific knowledge is a posteriori; faith is a priori; the former is not existing in the mind prior to or independent of experience and the latter is existing in the mind prior to and independent of experience.

Your response is a classic example of apples and aardvarks 'reasoning'.

Ironic!

Huh? If you disagree don't respond with ad hominem light; post the error in my reasoning or be a smart ass. I don't care which. I've already judged you.

Are you supreme grand inquisitor of allowable post content in this forum? In which case you need to file a complaint against yourself for alleging an equivalency that you cannot substantiate.

 

[Truthmatters]

Religion did the best it could to understand things they had no knowledge of.


Now we have much more knowledge.

why pretend the people who knew less knew more?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Isn't Atheism equivalent to Fundamentalism? Both being sets of True believers.

Only if you can prove that unquestioning faith in the word of God and peer reviewed scientific knowledge are exactly equivalent.

Atheism stems not from a lack of information, but from a lack of understanding. The Bible contains all the science we need to uncover the mysteries of the universe.

Consider the dimension, 'Time'. Was time a dimension long before Einstein realized it, or did it become a dimension contingent upon the capability of Einstein's scientific brain?

How about an expanding universe? Einstein had no idea the universe was expanding. Hubble proved it to him with a telescope. That proved to Einstein that the universe had a beginning point.

Then there is scientific Bible knowledge:
...At the briefest instant following creation all the matter of the universe was concentrated in a very small place, no larger than a grain of mustard. The matter at this time was very thin, so intangible, that it did not have real substance. It did have, however, a potential to gain substance and form and to become tangible matter. From the initial concentration of this intangible substance in its minute location, the substance expanded, expanding the universe as it did so. As the expansion progressed, a change in the substance occurred. This initially thin non corporeal substance took on the tangible aspects of matter as we know it. From this initial act of creation, from this ethereally thin pseudo substance, everything that has existed, or will ever exist, was, is, and will be formed. ~Nahmanides

11 dimensions can be found in the Bible. AND:
Bible readers also know that dimensions can be torn, burned, rolled....... A scientific fact that atheist scientists haven't reached/understood yet.

Do you know which dimension allowed Jesus to appear and disappear? 6.

Here are some examples:

2 Peter 3:12 while waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God? Because of this day, the heavens will be burned up and dissolve, and the celestial bodies will melt away in a blaze!

Revelation 6:14 The sky was split apart like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved from its place.

Here are some more:

Vilon – is the word for curtain or tent as where god stretches out the heavens. (Isaiah 40:22)

Rakia – refers to the physical or visible heavens containing the sun, moon and stars (Genesis 1:17).

Shechakim – refers to the atmosphere (Psalm 78:23).

Zevul – is the habitation where god’s glory exists as in the heavenlycCity (Isaiah 63:15).

Maon – is the place where angels reside from which come songs (Psalm 42:8)

Machon – refers to the storehouses where the treasures of rain, snow and hail reside (Deuteronomy 26:15).

Aravot – is the storehouse of righteousness and peace, where angel beings reside and possibly the spirits of those not yet born in waiting(Psalm 6:4).

God said we have all the scientific knowledge available by understanding Genesis.
Nachmanides proved it. He gleaned at least 10 dimensions from Genesis, way back in the 1400's, with out a Hadron Collider.

What you have learned from a 20th century atheist:
I think there might be 10 dimensions! ~ Hawking

No. atheism stems from posts such as this…

 

[Glensather]

Researchers: Asteroid Destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah | Fox News

You realize that theory has been debunked, right? The latest the Kofels Impact Event could have occurred is ~7000BC, long before Sodom and Gomorrah... and that's assuming an asteroid was even involved in that particular event.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

My feeling is that atheists are actually seekers who are testing the waters. Many come from a religious background that was not fulfilling in a personal way. They were/are faced with contradictions of various Christian groups. It's the people that are indifferent who bother me. The ones who do not care one way or another. And of course thate are the controllers in both groups. They are the those whose main concern is not either belief or unbelief, they are in it to be the leader of the pack.

Unsurprisingly, your ‘feeling’ is incorrect.

You make the same mistake as most theists: you presume the ‘fact’ of religion, and attempt to cast those free from faith as ‘rejecting’ that ‘fact’ either ‘willfully’ or as a consequence of ‘ignorance.’

And as with most theist you’ve got it backwards, nothing could be further from the truth.

Those free from faith have the correct and factual understanding, as one is not required to prove that something does not exist, when it indeed does not.