Why doesn't Atheists go away?

[Derideo_Te]

Isn't Atheism equivalent to Fundamentalism? Both being sets of True believers.

Only if you can prove that unquestioning faith in the word of God and peer reviewed scientific knowledge are exactly equivalent.

False standard. Only if the atheist can show unquestionably that God does not exist. Empirically and philosophically, such cannot be done.

Watching Derideo_Te online and reading his posts this last while he has been here, one realizes that he does fit the True Believer.

It was Wry Catcher that set the standard of equivalency. Why don't you address your complaint to him instead? Then again you also got your following statement wrong as well as your third.

Congratulations on your 2nd strike out in a row. You do get points for consistency though.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Actually, there is no such thing as ‘theism,’ it’s a pejorative term contrived by the atheists to describe those who reject the nonexistence of deity. One can not not believe in something that never existed to begin with. Atheism is the creation of pitiful man, faith is the norm.

Grow up, Clayton, be a man, accept your limitation, stop whining, and move on.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Only if you can prove that unquestioning faith in the word of God and peer reviewed scientific knowledge are exactly equivalent.

False standard. Only if the atheist can show unquestionably that God does not exist. Empirically and philosophically, such cannot be done.

Watching Derideo_Te online and reading his posts this last while he has been here, one realizes that he does fit the True Believer.

It was Wry Catcher that set the standard of equivalency. Why don't you address your complaint to him instead? Then again you also got your following statement wrong as well as your third.

Congratulations on your 2nd strike out in a row. You do get points for consistency though.

The fact is that you can't accept your limitations. Neither philosophy nor empiricism supports the atheist's claim. That's your problem, and you can't over come it.

 

[alan1]

Hi all

Your favorite non-believer is here to present you with a most subtle question!!

No--it is not "does a chimera bombinating in a vacuum devours second intentions?" But "Why don't Atheists go away?"

I know--my ability to question the most obvious of obvious is a much desired talent!! No need for the applauses!

I think it is due to atheists love of Christian myths!! Look--they do not attack any other religious thoughts, right? No attacks on Moses splitting the red sea, no attacks on Mohammed going to heaven while standing on a rock--no attack on Apollo riding in the sky in a golden chariot, no attacks on the Buddha talking to serpents about what to do with his enlightenment.

Nope, none, not a!!

So it has to be the love of christian Myths!! What do you think?

I think familiarity breeds contempt.

Every fevered atheist I know is a recovering former member of some religion.

I also note that the more oppressive and invasive the religion they are fleeing, the more intent they are on discussing the flaws of the religion.

I have never met any adult who was raised UNchurched, who wore their atheism on their sleeves.

I used to. At least for a few years I did, mostly on the internet.

 

[Truthmatters]

there is no religion I know of that is not based on unprovable myth

 

[JakeStarkey]

there is no religion I know of that is not based on unprovable myth

You can certainly believe that. But you can't disprove the existence of God.

 

[editec]

Will this board ever accept the truism that one can neither prove nor disprove the existence of GOD and therefore debating the subject is a complete waste of time?

Probably not.

Why not?

Because to the evangelical atheist or believer, such exercises serve to help them sustain the POVs.

They don't expect to change anyones minds, so much as they want to return to this debate to reinforce what they already believe.

Ironically, I believe it their LACK of absolute faith in what they believe that makes people constantly want to profess that faith in public.

It's reality testing about a subject for which there is no reality to test it against EXCEPT those who disagree.

 

[JakeStarkey]

evangelical atheist!

 

[Katzndogz]

Hi all

Your favorite non-believer is here to present you with a most subtle question!!

No--it is not "does a chimera bombinating in a vacuum devours second intentions?" But "Why don't Atheists go away?"

I know--my ability to question the most obvious of obvious is a much desired talent!! No need for the applauses!

I think it is due to atheists love of Christian myths!! Look--they do not attack any other religious thoughts, right? No attacks on Moses splitting the red sea, no attacks on Mohammed going to heaven while standing on a rock--no attack on Apollo riding in the sky in a golden chariot, no attacks on the Buddha talking to serpents about what to do with his enlightenment.

Nope, none, not a!!

So it has to be the love of christian Myths!! What do you think?

I think familiarity breeds contempt.

Every fevered atheist I know is a recovering former member of some religion.

I also note that the more oppressive and invasive the religion they are fleeing, the more intent they are on discussing the flaws of the religion.

I have never met any adult who was raised UNchurched, who wore their atheism on their sleeves.

Every rabid atheist I've ever met has been disappointed by religion in some way. Usually it is because they didn't get something they wanted. One prayed that his brother would be returned from the dead. Another had a mother that prayed really really hard not to die of cancer and died. I've met atheists that had a failed bargain (If we get a good snow so I can go skiing, it's a sign that God exists). If God exists, why doesn't he worship ME. If there was really a God, no one would ever die, get sick, grow old, have car accidents or stub their toes. When I was a child first questioning the existence of God, I was convinced that there was no God because movies required paid tickets to get in. In a Just and Godly world, no one would have to pay for movie tickets.

I grew out of such nonsense. Atheists grow into such nonsense. God is the concierge of mankind. He exists to serve mankind and since not everyone wins the lottery, He cannot exist. It is a flaw in the atheist understanding of the nature of God and the relationship between Man and God.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Isn't Atheism equivalent to Fundamentalism? Both being sets of True believers.

Only if you can prove that unquestioning faith in the word of God and peer reviewed scientific knowledge are exactly equivalent.

Huh? Peer reviewed scientific knowledge is a posteriori; faith is a priori; the former is not existing in the mind prior to or independent of experience and the latter is existing in the mind prior to and independent of experience.

Your response is a classic example of apples and aardvarks 'reasoning'.

 

[Truthmatters]

it is based on myth and not fact.

that is why I dont adhere to any religion

 

[Truthmatters]

It really is that simple folks

 

[Glensather]

Every rabid atheist I've ever met has been disappointed by religion in some way. Usually it is because they didn't get something they wanted. One prayed that his brother would be returned from the dead. Another had a mother that prayed really really hard not to die of cancer and died. I've met atheists that had a failed bargain (If we get a good snow so I can go skiing, it's a sign that God exists). If God exists, why doesn't he worship ME. If there was really a God, no one would ever die, get sick, grow old, have car accidents or stub their toes. When I was a child first questioning the existence of God, I was convinced that there was no God because movies required paid tickets to get in. In a Just and Godly world, no one would have to pay for movie tickets.

Those are awfully petty, and none of those are even close to why many people left the church. I'm sure there are some people who did leave because of such childish reasons, but I don't know of any.

In my experience, it was two things: The first, being that I got tired of the hypocrisy. "Love thy neighbor" and "Help the poor" mean nothing if you spew venom about your neighbors whilst in the pews and scream at homeless people to get a job.

The second was just that, personally, I didn't feel the faith. I never asked for anything absurd like bringing people back from the dead, because I knew that was impossible unless you were, like, Jesus. I never asked for anything petty because I believed solidly in the phrase "God helps those who help themselves". Sure, sometimes people needed help, but that's when Good Christians were supposed to help those in need... help them help themselves.

I saw none of that growing up. I think that's why I lost the faith.

That said, I'm not a rabid atheist. I'm just... a nonbeliever.

I grew out of such nonsense. Atheists grow into such nonsense. God is the concierge of mankind. He exists to serve mankind and since not everyone wins the lottery, He cannot exist. It is a flaw in the atheist understanding of the nature of God and the relationship between Man and God.

I would hope that most people don't think that way. We are but puny humans, and no deity - whether it be God or Zeus or Shiva - is going to answer petty prayers.

 

[Katzndogz]

Will this board ever accept the truism that one can neither prove nor disprove the existence of GOD and therefore debating the subject is a complete waste of time?

Probably not.

Why not?

Because to the evangelical atheist or believer, such exercises serve to help them sustain the POVs.

They don't expect to change anyones minds, so much as they want to return to this debate to reinforce what they already believe.

Ironically, I believe it their LACK of absolute faith in what they believe that makes people constantly want to profess that faith in public.

It's reality testing about a subject for which there is no reality to test it against EXCEPT those who disagree.

What YOU will not accept is that to believers the existence of God has already been proved. I believe in God, He is my very best friend. I started out as a non-believer, then God proved his existence to me personally. Over and over again. I don't need for God to prove his existence to you.

That's what non believers do not understand. They just don't get that personal relationship part. Yet it is the personal relationship that drives religion, particularly Christianity. All the erroneous logic and reasonable arguments will never work because the existence of God and God's authority has already been proved. A child might say "My dad doesn't love me, if he did, he would have bought me that new bike I wanted so that's proof right there.

I never get into these unwinnable arguments. Sometimes, though, the fallacies just have to be pointed out.

 

[Katzndogz]

Every rabid atheist I've ever met has been disappointed by religion in some way. Usually it is because they didn't get something they wanted. One prayed that his brother would be returned from the dead. Another had a mother that prayed really really hard not to die of cancer and died. I've met atheists that had a failed bargain (If we get a good snow so I can go skiing, it's a sign that God exists). If God exists, why doesn't he worship ME. If there was really a God, no one would ever die, get sick, grow old, have car accidents or stub their toes. When I was a child first questioning the existence of God, I was convinced that there was no God because movies required paid tickets to get in. In a Just and Godly world, no one would have to pay for movie tickets.

Those are awfully petty, and none of those are even close to why many people left the church. I'm sure there are some people who did leave because of such childish reasons, but I don't know of any.

In my experience, it was two things: The first, being that I got tired of the hypocrisy. "Love thy neighbor" and "Help the poor" mean nothing if you spew venom about your neighbors whilst in the pews and scream at homeless people to get a job.

The second was just that, personally, I didn't feel the faith. I never asked for anything absurd like bringing people back from the dead, because I knew that was impossible unless you were, like, Jesus. I never asked for anything petty because I believed solidly in the phrase "God helps those who help themselves". Sure, sometimes people needed help, but that's when Good Christians were supposed to help those in need... help them help themselves.

I saw none of that growing up. I think that's why I lost the faith.

That said, I'm not a rabid atheist. I'm just... a nonbeliever.

I grew out of such nonsense. Atheists grow into such nonsense. God is the concierge of mankind. He exists to serve mankind and since not everyone wins the lottery, He cannot exist. It is a flaw in the atheist understanding of the nature of God and the relationship between Man and God.

I would hope that most people don't think that way. We are but puny humans, and no deity - whether it be God or Zeus or Shiva - is going to answer petty prayers.

God sometimes does answer petty prayers. I made one. I prayed for a new car because mine was so decrepit and my life depended on a car. I got my car, even though it ended up being a torment. Sometimes God answers prayers no one has made. He bestows gifts no one has asked for. That too happened to me. My relationship with the Lord is intensely personal. You have lost your faith. That has nothing to do with God. It means you have lost your faith. Possibly because you put that faith in other men.

 

[Glensather]

On the contrary, I have nothing to put any faith into. I mean, I have my wife and kids, but they depend on me, not the other way around.

I'm such a skeptic about everything nowadays, that I don't believe in either evolution or creation. The latter because I don't... I don't know, feel it? And the former because we've yet to recreate it, nor do I believe we ever will.

 

[alan1]

Every rabid atheist I've ever met has been disappointed by religion in some way. Usually it is because they didn't get something they wanted. One prayed that his brother would be returned from the dead. Another had a mother that prayed really really hard not to die of cancer and died. I've met atheists that had a failed bargain (If we get a good snow so I can go skiing, it's a sign that God exists). If God exists, why doesn't he worship ME. If there was really a God, no one would ever die, get sick, grow old, have car accidents or stub their toes. When I was a child first questioning the existence of God, I was convinced that there was no God because movies required paid tickets to get in. In a Just and Godly world, no one would have to pay for movie tickets.

I grew out of such nonsense. Atheists grow into such nonsense. God is the concierge of mankind. He exists to serve mankind and since not everyone wins the lottery, He cannot exist. It is a flaw in the atheist understanding of the nature of God and the relationship between Man and God.

And what about the non-theists that aren't rabid?
Chances are, you don't hear them because they are silent about their choice.

You make some decent points, Kaztndogz, but they only apply to the fanatical atheists. You should no more do that than allow me to apply Westboro church teachings to all baptists (which I will not do), or all christians.

Personally, I do not think that either believing in god or not believing in god is a flaw on either side. It is a choice people make. Made with their best understanding of the situation, facts and faith they have.

 

[Truthmatters]

most current religions forces you to choose facts or faith.


I chose facts

 

[rightwinger]

My feeling is that atheists are actually seekers who are testing the waters. Many come from a religious background that was not fulfilling in a personal way. They were/are faced with contradictions of various Christian groups. It's the people that are indifferent who bother me. The ones who do not care one way or another. And of course thate are the controllers in both groups. They are the those whose main concern is not either belief or unbelief, they are in it to be the leader of the pack.

Most have heard what religions have to say and concluded......I don't believe that shit

 

[Glensather]

most current religions forces you to choose facts or faith.


I chose facts

No, you don't.
You disagree with religion just because. You have no empirical evidence disproving the existence of God any more than I do. While believing something on faith alone might seem absurd to you, it's not to them. So instead of trashing someone based on their personal beliefs, maybe you should respect them.

And only fundie churches force you to believe only in what they say. Many churches see new science and adapt their beliefs to fit that.

For example, when the Big Bang Theory finally came to the fore of how the universe began, the Catholic Church openly accepted it because, lo and behold, the theory sounded a lot like the phrase "Let there be light." They adapted to it and accepted it.