Why electric cars will take over sooner than you think

[HappyJoy]

I would add many of those oil companies don't pay a penny in federal income taxes.

You should absolutely LOVE oil companies, since they are providing the fuel to generate electricity for EVs. Evs aren't going anywhere without the oil companies.

Fossil fuels don't generate electricity in my state.

We use water, wind, solar and a small nuclear facility.

We started shutting down our last coal fired plant in 2005. I'm sure it's closed by now.

We started building one of the nation's largest wind farms in the 90s.

The result?

We generate more electricity than we use so we sell the excess to other states for a profit. If you live in one of those states, you're welcome for the cheap and clean energy.

We also have the second lowest electric rates in the country.

So my state doesn't need or want fossil fuels to generate electricity.

Untrue anywhere in the US.
Coal is the #1 electricity producer in ALL US states and most of the world.
Many states just do not know how their electricity is produced because it is part of an out of state grid.
It is never going to be possible to use only renewable resources any place in the world except on ocean shores, near high thermal sources, or where one does not mind killing fish.

So, if renewable sources can't supply all our needs, then we will use coal, or gas, or dried cow dung if we have to. We will maintain a reliable energy source of one kind or another. It will just be better for us if we can do that with renewable sources sooner. Nobody wants or expects a complete conversion to renewables before that is possible. Quit whining.

Going to electricity before electricity is renewable, only makes emissions much worse.
Nor does electricity allow for any reasonable totally renewable result eventually either, while bio fuel does.
So there is no point in going electrical.
It is inefficient.
Can you imagine trying to do ships, planes, or even EV trucks?
The would have no capacity to carry anything.
Batteries are way too heavy.

We already have diesel/electric ships and trucks, Electric power has already been proven to be more efficient than direct power by internal combustion. Why are you so afraid of progress? Do you think we will completely convert to battery powered electric before we have technology to match or better internal combustion? That's just silly.

Because what you just claimed isn't true. Electric power is more efficient in very limited circumstances. Over short distances electric powered vehicles are superior. There is no doubt of that. However, once you get beyond a mile the advantage swings to the internal combustion engine. Currently a Formula One race car can travel 190 miles, at full performance, on a single tank of regular gasoline. Formula E, can only manage 55 miles. And, they have to use TWO cars to do it.

So, calculate out the energy density involved, and get back to us with your claim of EV superiority.

If you want to discuss energy density, you should consider diesel electric freight trains. Those require serious energy density. Only a fool would think our currnt battery technology is as far as we will go with electric vehicles, and only an idiot would think we will switch to a new technology before it is able to meet the demand. Relax. Quit whining. It will be all right. We won't lose our means of transportation like you seem to fear.

Only a fool would think they can defy the laws of physics. Battery technology, and range, is not significantly greater than it was 100 years ago. Gasoline is the most energy dense fuel that normal people can acquire. A thimble full will propel a 3,000 pound car about 2 miles. No battery in the world can even come close.

You should tell GM, Ford, and all those other car manufacturers. I'm sure they would appreciate you letting them know all their engineers don't know what they are talking about. They will probably give you free cars for life for saving them all that money.

The government is TELLING them to do it. If EV'S were so great, the government wouldn't need to force you to use them

Like seat belts and airbags.

I hate airbags.
They are explosive, dangerous, and expensive.
If you wear glasses, they easily can cause blindness.
Permanent passive restraints make a lot more sense, like close dash or steering wheel padding.

glasses are plastic, and your full of it

So plastic shoved into your eyeball won't cause blindness?

{... During a collision, older-model auto airbags can deploy with such force that they can cause serious injuries to the eyes or even, in rare cases, blindness, say eye trauma specialists interviewed by WebMD. ...}

What Causes Eye Problems?

Get information on common eye and vision problems, such as conjunctivitis, retinal detachment, dry eyes, cataracts, and glaucoma.

www.webmd.com

{...

Rethinking airbag safety: airbag injury causing bilateral blindness​

...

Abstract​

A healthy 40-year-old man, restrained in the front passenger seat, suffered visually disabling blunt ocular trauma following spontaneous release of the passenger side air-bag module, during vehicular deceleration, without an automobile crash. Though the driver-side airbag was also released, the driver was unharmed. The passenger suffered bilateral hyphema, bilateral vitreous hemorrhage and suspected posterior scleral rupture in the left eye and also had an eyebrow laceration, from impact with the dashboard panel covering the air-bag module, which was detached by the force of airbag deployment. This is the first reported case from West Africa and the first case in which part of the airbag module detached to cause additional trauma. This report adds to the growing burden of evidence world-wide, for a review of the safety aspects of the automobile airbag. This case clearly illustrates that although airbags reduce mortality, they carry a high risk of ocular morbidity, even with seat belt restraint. ...}

Rethinking airbag safety: airbag injury causing bilateral blindness - PubMed

A healthy 40-year-old man, restrained in the front passenger seat, suffered visually disabling blunt ocular trauma following spontaneous release of the passenger side air-bag module, during vehicular deceleration, without an automobile crash. Though the driver-side airbag was also released, the...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Airbags have saved over 50,000 lives. I doubt your "physics degree" has accomplished as much.

Airbags

Information from IIHS-HLDI on airbags

www.iihs.org

Wow so those 50,000 will never die?

Wrong.
What I said is that permanent padding works better.
For example, when the airbag explodes, it not only throws your hands off the wheel, but can break thumbs and fingers.
This can lead to a small rail accident that inflated the airbag, that totally makes you out of control and the car goes off a cliff.
If they just put additional padding closer to the person, they could give the better protection all the time, without the explosive charge in your face.

Saved over 50k lives, what have you done?

You mean like we STILL DO with oil companies.

I would add many of those oil companies don't pay a penny in federal income taxes.

You should absolutely LOVE oil companies, since they are providing the fuel to generate electricity for EVs. Evs aren't going anywhere without the oil companies.

Fossil fuels don't generate electricity in my state.

We use water, wind, solar and a small nuclear facility.

We started shutting down our last coal fired plant in 2005. I'm sure it's closed by now.

We started building one of the nation's largest wind farms in the 90s.

The result?

We generate more electricity than we use so we sell the excess to other states for a profit. If you live in one of those states, you're welcome for the cheap and clean energy.

We also have the second lowest electric rates in the country.

So my state doesn't need or want fossil fuels to generate electricity.

Untrue anywhere in the US.
Coal is the #1 electricity producer in ALL US states and most of the world.
Many states just do not know how their electricity is produced because it is part of an out of state grid.
It is never going to be possible to use only renewable resources any place in the world except on ocean shores, near high thermal sources, or where one does not mind killing fish.

So, if renewable sources can't supply all our needs, then we will use coal, or gas, or dried cow dung if we have to. We will maintain a reliable energy source of one kind or another. It will just be better for us if we can do that with renewable sources sooner. Nobody wants or expects a complete conversion to renewables before that is possible. Quit whining.

Going to electricity before electricity is renewable, only makes emissions much worse.
Nor does electricity allow for any reasonable totally renewable result eventually either, while bio fuel does.
So there is no point in going electrical.
It is inefficient.
Can you imagine trying to do ships, planes, or even EV trucks?
The would have no capacity to carry anything.
Batteries are way too heavy.

We already have diesel/electric ships and trucks, Electric power has already been proven to be more efficient than direct power by internal combustion. Why are you so afraid of progress? Do you think we will completely convert to battery powered electric before we have technology to match or better internal combustion? That's just silly.

Because what you just claimed isn't true. Electric power is more efficient in very limited circumstances. Over short distances electric powered vehicles are superior. There is no doubt of that. However, once you get beyond a mile the advantage swings to the internal combustion engine. Currently a Formula One race car can travel 190 miles, at full performance, on a single tank of regular gasoline. Formula E, can only manage 55 miles. And, they have to use TWO cars to do it.

So, calculate out the energy density involved, and get back to us with your claim of EV superiority.

If you want to discuss energy density, you should consider diesel electric freight trains. Those require serious energy density. Only a fool would think our currnt battery technology is as far as we will go with electric vehicles, and only an idiot would think we will switch to a new technology before it is able to meet the demand. Relax. Quit whining. It will be all right. We won't lose our means of transportation like you seem to fear.

Only a fool would think they can defy the laws of physics. Battery technology, and range, is not significantly greater than it was 100 years ago. Gasoline is the most energy dense fuel that normal people can acquire. A thimble full will propel a 3,000 pound car about 2 miles. No battery in the world can even come close.

You should tell GM, Ford, and all those other car manufacturers. I'm sure they would appreciate you letting them know all their engineers don't know what they are talking about. They will probably give you free cars for life for saving them all that money.

The government is TELLING them to do it. If EV'S were so great, the government wouldn't need to force you to use them

Like seat belts and airbags.

I hate airbags.
They are explosive, dangerous, and expensive.
If you wear glasses, they easily can cause blindness.
Permanent passive restraints make a lot more sense, like close dash or steering wheel padding.

glasses are plastic, and your full of it

Rigby "the physicist" thinks glasses are still made with glass? Yep, he's either full of it or just arrived in his time machine invention.

Wrong.
Did the articles about airbags causing blindness say it required glass lenses?

Your article references older airbags.

And you have not been reading about how airbags are killing people?
{...

South Carolina driver killed by exploding air bag inflator​

A driver in South Carolina is the latest person to be killed by an exploding Takata air bag inflator
ByThe Associated Press
April 21, 2021, 7:00 PM
• 3 min read
...
Takata used volatile ammonium nitrate to create a small explosion to inflate air bags in a crash. But the chemical can become more volatile over time when exposed to moisture in the air. The explosion can blow apart a metal canister and hurl shrapnel into the passenger compartment.
...}

South Carolina driver killed by exploding air bag inflator

A driver in South Carolina is the latest person to be killed by an exploding Takata air bag inflator

abcnews.go.com

How could anyone feel safer with an explosive charge in your face, about to go off from even a slight malfunction?

Airbags have saved the lives of over 50k people. How many have they killed?

 

[Rigby5]

Yep, when you only get 250 miles on a good day from an electric fill up, that took 1 hour, sure, the electric car is the way to go. But if you have to go from Florida to Arizona, and it takes you 10 fill ups and it is cold outside and the days are short, you have to fill up a few more times and longer because battteries dont do well in cold weather.

The inception of the idea about a battery charged-electric vehicle is indeed ... compact, light and far more efficient nickel/metal (NiMH) accumulators. ... A brave new world is upon us, with many pioneers leading the way of developments. ...​

Hey, get your jollies off on electric cars all you want, but a few facts are in order:

1. GM isn't phasing out gas cars until 15 years from now, so they say today.
2. A great many people rely on the USED market buying used gasoline cars up to ten years old. That means there will still be a steady demand for used gas cars at least until 2045.
3. In a bad economy, a $4,000 used gas car will be easier to sell than a $60,000 new electric car.
4. As time goes on and more people see the liabilities of an electric car, they will be sticking with or going back to gasoline.
5. As gas cars become scarcer on the market, their value will soar.
6. The electric car is a CONSUMER item and will never replace all forms of transportation.
7. The environmental/climatic benefits of electric cars is being greatly overstated.
8. The minute they develop a practical hydrogen fuel cell, they will drop electric battery cars like hot cakes making them valueless.
9. Electric cars will be chock full of computer restrictions and government regulations limiting the driver and telling on him; as people realize that, they will flock back to gasoline.
10. The electric car will never fully supplant the gas car until they literally outlaw gas cars, close all gas stations and FORCE everyone to electric.

8. There are many more infrastructure hurdles for hydrogen than there are for electric.

9. You seem to think today's gas powered cars aren't chock full of computers already, and any imagined restrictions you fear could be easily implemented with the technology we currently have.

Hydrogen certainly will be very different to refuel and will require very different fueling stations.

But as for computers and restrictions, I think he is referring to things like keeping a log of all the traffic infractions like speeding, what strip club you went to, etc.

If he thinks that is all computers do in cars, he has no idea of what their main purpose is. They regulate all the aspects of combustion to get more power and less harmful exhaust. It used to be hard to find a factory V8 with 300 horsepower. Now it's common to get that from a four cylinder. Computers made that possible.

Not really.
Computers just made it cheaper.
The main way you increase power is by increasing compression ratio, like with a turbo charger, and then the problem becomes avoiding the deadly pre-ignition.
Pre-ignition can easily be prevented by mechanical fuel injection directly into the cylinders, like diesels used to have, and the only problem with that is it is expensive.

But some people are under the false impression computers can actually see and recognize things in real time speeds, and that is false.
Computers are about 100 million times slower at recognizing images than humans.

One small fact worth adding to the equation is that all these methods of increasing the (volumetric) efficiency of the engine also tends to shorten their lives by increasing operational stress. Forcing 300 HP out of a 4 cylinder will roughly cut the life expectancy of that engine down to about maybe a quarter that of a 8 cylinder.

Older engines were worn out at 100,000 miles just a few years ago. Now it's not unusual to go two or three times that range. Your "don't last as long" claim doesn't match reality.

That is not true.
I have had 1960s era Mercedes, Volvos, etc., with over half a million miles.
That is also true of 1970s VW even, once water cooled.
I see lots more new cars in the junk yard now because the electronic are too delicate and too expensive to begin to diagnose.
I even had over half a million miles on my old 69 International pickup before I sold it, and it is still running strong for the buyer.

Bingo.

But the previous estimate of a 4 cylinder getting a forth of the life of a V8 is also an exaggeration. It is more like 30% less at most.

Only by violating the basic laws of physics. Given the SAME materials, technology and expenditure, you are asking about 4X the work/heat per cubic millimeter out of a 4 cylinder than you are a V8. The only way to beat that mainstream curve is to interject better materials and higher technology (read: complexity) at a higher cost.

But no one would buy engines that only lasted a forth the time.

I never said anyone did. I said that was the mechanics of purely reducing engine displacement, all else remaining equal. Manufacturers beat the 1/4th life factor by going very high tech at far higher cost because the consumer is willing to pay.

No, the longevity of European 4 cylinder cars was not much worse than the longevity of US 8 cylinder cars in the 60s - 80s, without using any high tech tricks.
The 4 cylinder engine just weighed a lot less and they made the 4 cylinder car much lighter and smaller.
Like the 1970 Volvo 144 was just a 4 cylinder 2.0 liter with dual SU carbs.
It performed well against US V8s and lasted almost forever.
They put in a lot of boats too.
The Volvo 144 was actually roomier than most US cars.

 

[Rigby5]

g

Airbags have saved the lives of over 50k people. How many have they killed?

Again, not a single one, because permanent padding would have worked much better, been reliable, not exploded, etc.
There was never any rational reason for airbags, and they were always a dumb idea.

 

[HappyJoy]

g

Airbags have saved the lives of over 50k people. How many have they killed?

Again, not a single one, because permanent padding would have worked much better, been reliable, not exploded, etc.
There was never any rational reason for airbags, and they were always a dumb idea.

That padding existed before airbags so, no you'd be wrong again.

Also your article mentions that the guy in S.C. received recall notices and he ignored them. Very dumb thing to do.

The other thing we're doing here is debating that government mandated things are always a bad idea because if they were good a car would already have them. Well, seat belts are government mandated. They also save lives, a lot.

 

[candycorn]

bad bad news for all authoritarian gas-stations like KSA, Muscovy, Venezuela , what will happened to them once oil (so no crazy jets full of cash landing on the roof of the Putin´s dacha) becomes what is coal today ?

"
....
We are in the middle of the biggest revolution in motoring since Henry Ford's first production line started turning back in 1913.
And it is likely to happen much more quickly than you imagine.
Many industry observers believe we have already passed the tipping point where sales of electric vehicles (EVs) will very rapidly overwhelm petrol and diesel cars....

Jaguar plans to sell only electric cars from 2025, Volvo from 2030 and last week the British sportscar company Lotus said it would follow suit, selling only electric models from 2028.

General Motors says it will make only electric vehicles by 2035, Ford says all vehicles sold in Europe will be electric by 2030 and VW says 70% of its sales will be electric by 2030."

Why electric cars will take over sooner than you think

The BBC's Justin Rowlatt explains why we are accelerating towards an electric car future.

www.bbc.com

It is definitely coming very quick....every time I fill up my tank I wonder why I haven't gone electric yet.

 

[Rigby5]

g

Airbags have saved the lives of over 50k people. How many have they killed?

Again, not a single one, because permanent padding would have worked much better, been reliable, not exploded, etc.
There was never any rational reason for airbags, and they were always a dumb idea.

That padding existed before airbags so, no you'd be wrong again.

Also your article mentions that the guy in S.C. received recall notices and he ignored them. Very dumb thing to do.

Wrong.
I am talking about additional padding that was only tried experimentally.
Works much better.
There is a huge distance between you and the windshield.
That gives you time to accelerate towards it.
You need padding that prevents you from being able to hit the windshield, similar to an air bag, but does not deflate.
Like the padded bar they pull down over you in an amusement ride.

 

[Rigby5]

bad bad news for all authoritarian gas-stations like KSA, Muscovy, Venezuela , what will happened to them once oil (so no crazy jets full of cash landing on the roof of the Putin´s dacha) becomes what is coal today ?

"
....
We are in the middle of the biggest revolution in motoring since Henry Ford's first production line started turning back in 1913.
And it is likely to happen much more quickly than you imagine.
Many industry observers believe we have already passed the tipping point where sales of electric vehicles (EVs) will very rapidly overwhelm petrol and diesel cars....

Jaguar plans to sell only electric cars from 2025, Volvo from 2030 and last week the British sportscar company Lotus said it would follow suit, selling only electric models from 2028.

General Motors says it will make only electric vehicles by 2035, Ford says all vehicles sold in Europe will be electric by 2030 and VW says 70% of its sales will be electric by 2030."

Why electric cars will take over sooner than you think

The BBC's Justin Rowlatt explains why we are accelerating towards an electric car future.

www.bbc.com

It is definitely coming very quick....every time I fill up my tank I wonder why I haven't gone electric yet.

Almost half the price of a tank of gas is tax.
While EVs are exempt for now, they will start having to pay the same tax soon.

 

[HappyJoy]

g

Airbags have saved the lives of over 50k people. How many have they killed?

Again, not a single one, because permanent padding would have worked much better, been reliable, not exploded, etc.
There was never any rational reason for airbags, and they were always a dumb idea.

That padding existed before airbags so, no you'd be wrong again.

Also your article mentions that the guy in S.C. received recall notices and he ignored them. Very dumb thing to do.

Wrong.
I am talking about additional padding that was only tried experimentally.
Works much better.
There is a huge distance between you and the windshield.
That gives you time to accelerate towards it.
You need padding that prevents you from being able to hit the windshield, similar to an air bag, but does not deflate.
Like the padded bar they pull down over you in an amusement ride.

The padded bar on an amusement ride isn't feet away from you, it's an inch or less. The padding is more for comfort than protecting you as your inertia is stopped immediately by the bar.

Being thrown into padding going 60 miles an hour is probably better than nothing but not much.

 

[2aguy]

bad bad news for all authoritarian gas-stations like KSA, Muscovy, Venezuela , what will happened to them once oil (so no crazy jets full of cash landing on the roof of the Putin´s dacha) becomes what is coal today ?

"
....
We are in the middle of the biggest revolution in motoring since Henry Ford's first production line started turning back in 1913.
And it is likely to happen much more quickly than you imagine.
Many industry observers believe we have already passed the tipping point where sales of electric vehicles (EVs) will very rapidly overwhelm petrol and diesel cars....

Jaguar plans to sell only electric cars from 2025, Volvo from 2030 and last week the British sportscar company Lotus said it would follow suit, selling only electric models from 2028.

General Motors says it will make only electric vehicles by 2035, Ford says all vehicles sold in Europe will be electric by 2030 and VW says 70% of its sales will be electric by 2030."

Why electric cars will take over sooner than you think

The BBC's Justin Rowlatt explains why we are accelerating towards an electric car future.

www.bbc.com

yeah.

 

[HappyJoy]

bad bad news for all authoritarian gas-stations like KSA, Muscovy, Venezuela , what will happened to them once oil (so no crazy jets full of cash landing on the roof of the Putin´s dacha) becomes what is coal today ?

"
....
We are in the middle of the biggest revolution in motoring since Henry Ford's first production line started turning back in 1913.
And it is likely to happen much more quickly than you imagine.
Many industry observers believe we have already passed the tipping point where sales of electric vehicles (EVs) will very rapidly overwhelm petrol and diesel cars....

Jaguar plans to sell only electric cars from 2025, Volvo from 2030 and last week the British sportscar company Lotus said it would follow suit, selling only electric models from 2028.

General Motors says it will make only electric vehicles by 2035, Ford says all vehicles sold in Europe will be electric by 2030 and VW says 70% of its sales will be electric by 2030."

Why electric cars will take over sooner than you think

The BBC's Justin Rowlatt explains why we are accelerating towards an electric car future.

www.bbc.com

It is definitely coming very quick....every time I fill up my tank I wonder why I haven't gone electric yet.

Almost half the price of a tank of gas is tax.
While EVs are exempt for now, they will start having to pay the same tax soon.

Gas vehicles are subjected to the ebb and flow of OPEC and other influences. EVs not as much. So while gas is skyrocketing EVs wouldn't be subjected to this. A little, not much.

As far as taxing some states already tax for charging. Not sure how they handle charging at home.

 

[Rigby5]

g

Airbags have saved the lives of over 50k people. How many have they killed?

Again, not a single one, because permanent padding would have worked much better, been reliable, not exploded, etc.
There was never any rational reason for airbags, and they were always a dumb idea.

That padding existed before airbags so, no you'd be wrong again.

Also your article mentions that the guy in S.C. received recall notices and he ignored them. Very dumb thing to do.

Wrong.
I am talking about additional padding that was only tried experimentally.
Works much better.
There is a huge distance between you and the windshield.
That gives you time to accelerate towards it.
You need padding that prevents you from being able to hit the windshield, similar to an air bag, but does not deflate.
Like the padded bar they pull down over you in an amusement ride.

The padded bar on an amusement ride isn't feet away from you, it's an inch or less. The padding is more for comfort than protecting you as your inertia is stopped immediately by the bar.

Being thrown into padding going 60 miles an hour is probably better than nothing but not much.

That is what my point was.
The experimental padding they tested that worked better than airbags was close up.
The padding on a ride is not for comfort, but required lifesavers.
The bar in a car should be attached to your seat, not explode towards you from the dash.
If you are leaning forward, an explosive airbag can be deadly if if not malfunctioning.
Why do you think they don't let kids ride in the front any more?

 

[Rigby5]

bad bad news for all authoritarian gas-stations like KSA, Muscovy, Venezuela , what will happened to them once oil (so no crazy jets full of cash landing on the roof of the Putin´s dacha) becomes what is coal today ?

"
....
We are in the middle of the biggest revolution in motoring since Henry Ford's first production line started turning back in 1913.
And it is likely to happen much more quickly than you imagine.
Many industry observers believe we have already passed the tipping point where sales of electric vehicles (EVs) will very rapidly overwhelm petrol and diesel cars....

Jaguar plans to sell only electric cars from 2025, Volvo from 2030 and last week the British sportscar company Lotus said it would follow suit, selling only electric models from 2028.

General Motors says it will make only electric vehicles by 2035, Ford says all vehicles sold in Europe will be electric by 2030 and VW says 70% of its sales will be electric by 2030."

Why electric cars will take over sooner than you think

The BBC's Justin Rowlatt explains why we are accelerating towards an electric car future.

www.bbc.com

It is definitely coming very quick....every time I fill up my tank I wonder why I haven't gone electric yet.

Almost half the price of a tank of gas is tax.
While EVs are exempt for now, they will start having to pay the same tax soon.

Gas vehicles are subjected to the ebb and flow of OPEC and other influences. EVs not as much. So while gas is skyrocketing EVs wouldn't be subjected to this. A little, not much.

As far as taxing some states already tax for charging. Not sure how they handle charging at home.

We have little natural gas, and will soon run out, so then will have to import natural gas from OPEC, just like oil.
There is no independence from OPEC with EV. The US has oil too, but that does not alter that OPEC has a lot more.

 

[toobfreak]

Yep, when you only get 250 miles on a good day from an electric fill up, that took 1 hour, sure, the electric car is the way to go. But if you have to go from Florida to Arizona, and it takes you 10 fill ups and it is cold outside and the days are short, you have to fill up a few more times and longer because battteries dont do well in cold weather.

The inception of the idea about a battery charged-electric vehicle is indeed ... compact, light and far more efficient nickel/metal (NiMH) accumulators. ... A brave new world is upon us, with many pioneers leading the way of developments. ...​

Hey, get your jollies off on electric cars all you want, but a few facts are in order:

1. GM isn't phasing out gas cars until 15 years from now, so they say today.
2. A great many people rely on the USED market buying used gasoline cars up to ten years old. That means there will still be a steady demand for used gas cars at least until 2045.
3. In a bad economy, a $4,000 used gas car will be easier to sell than a $60,000 new electric car.
4. As time goes on and more people see the liabilities of an electric car, they will be sticking with or going back to gasoline.
5. As gas cars become scarcer on the market, their value will soar.
6. The electric car is a CONSUMER item and will never replace all forms of transportation.
7. The environmental/climatic benefits of electric cars is being greatly overstated.
8. The minute they develop a practical hydrogen fuel cell, they will drop electric battery cars like hot cakes making them valueless.
9. Electric cars will be chock full of computer restrictions and government regulations limiting the driver and telling on him; as people realize that, they will flock back to gasoline.
10. The electric car will never fully supplant the gas car until they literally outlaw gas cars, close all gas stations and FORCE everyone to electric.

8. There are many more infrastructure hurdles for hydrogen than there are for electric.

9. You seem to think today's gas powered cars aren't chock full of computers already, and any imagined restrictions you fear could be easily implemented with the technology we currently have.

Hydrogen certainly will be very different to refuel and will require very different fueling stations.

But as for computers and restrictions, I think he is referring to things like keeping a log of all the traffic infractions like speeding, what strip club you went to, etc.

If he thinks that is all computers do in cars, he has no idea of what their main purpose is. They regulate all the aspects of combustion to get more power and less harmful exhaust. It used to be hard to find a factory V8 with 300 horsepower. Now it's common to get that from a four cylinder. Computers made that possible.

Not really.
Computers just made it cheaper.
The main way you increase power is by increasing compression ratio, like with a turbo charger, and then the problem becomes avoiding the deadly pre-ignition.
Pre-ignition can easily be prevented by mechanical fuel injection directly into the cylinders, like diesels used to have, and the only problem with that is it is expensive.

But some people are under the false impression computers can actually see and recognize things in real time speeds, and that is false.
Computers are about 100 million times slower at recognizing images than humans.

One small fact worth adding to the equation is that all these methods of increasing the (volumetric) efficiency of the engine also tends to shorten their lives by increasing operational stress. Forcing 300 HP out of a 4 cylinder will roughly cut the life expectancy of that engine down to about maybe a quarter that of a 8 cylinder.

Older engines were worn out at 100,000 miles just a few years ago. Now it's not unusual to go two or three times that range. Your "don't last as long" claim doesn't match reality.

That is not true.
I have had 1960s era Mercedes, Volvos, etc., with over half a million miles.
That is also true of 1970s VW even, once water cooled.
I see lots more new cars in the junk yard now because the electronic are too delicate and too expensive to begin to diagnose.
I even had over half a million miles on my old 69 International pickup before I sold it, and it is still running strong for the buyer.

Bingo.

But the previous estimate of a 4 cylinder getting a forth of the life of a V8 is also an exaggeration. It is more like 30% less at most.

Only by violating the basic laws of physics. Given the SAME materials, technology and expenditure, you are asking about 4X the work/heat per cubic millimeter out of a 4 cylinder than you are a V8. The only way to beat that mainstream curve is to interject better materials and higher technology (read: complexity) at a higher cost.

But no one would buy engines that only lasted a forth the time.

I never said anyone did. I said that was the mechanics of purely reducing engine displacement, all else remaining equal. Manufacturers beat the 1/4th life factor by going very high tech at far higher cost because the consumer is willing to pay.

No, the longevity of European 4 cylinder cars was not much worse than the longevity of US 8 cylinder cars in the 60s - 80s, without using any high tech tricks.

RIGHT! What, am I talking to myself? It wasn't much worse because they abided by my first law: it wasn't pulling around an Impala, Continental or Cadillac, they were running at high rpms through manual shift boxes or complex multi-gear auto trannies pulling around relatively small tin cans to fit the narrow streets in Europe not the big hogs of the American market.

 

[HappyJoy]

g

Airbags have saved the lives of over 50k people. How many have they killed?

Again, not a single one, because permanent padding would have worked much better, been reliable, not exploded, etc.
There was never any rational reason for airbags, and they were always a dumb idea.

That padding existed before airbags so, no you'd be wrong again.

Also your article mentions that the guy in S.C. received recall notices and he ignored them. Very dumb thing to do.

Wrong.
I am talking about additional padding that was only tried experimentally.
Works much better.
There is a huge distance between you and the windshield.
That gives you time to accelerate towards it.
You need padding that prevents you from being able to hit the windshield, similar to an air bag, but does not deflate.
Like the padded bar they pull down over you in an amusement ride.

The padded bar on an amusement ride isn't feet away from you, it's an inch or less. The padding is more for comfort than protecting you as your inertia is stopped immediately by the bar.

Being thrown into padding going 60 miles an hour is probably better than nothing but not much.

That is what my point was.
The experimental padding they tested that worked better than airbags was close up.
The padding on a ride is not for comfort, but required lifesavers.
The bar in a car should be attached to your seat, not explode towards you from the dash.
If you are leaning forward, an explosive airbag can be deadly if if not malfunctioning.
Why do you think they don't let kids ride in the front any more?

Well, as soon as you demonstrate that some expert somewhere says to forego airbags for padding only...until then you're not really demonstrating anything.

 

[HappyJoy]

bad bad news for all authoritarian gas-stations like KSA, Muscovy, Venezuela , what will happened to them once oil (so no crazy jets full of cash landing on the roof of the Putin´s dacha) becomes what is coal today ?

"
....
We are in the middle of the biggest revolution in motoring since Henry Ford's first production line started turning back in 1913.
And it is likely to happen much more quickly than you imagine.
Many industry observers believe we have already passed the tipping point where sales of electric vehicles (EVs) will very rapidly overwhelm petrol and diesel cars....

Jaguar plans to sell only electric cars from 2025, Volvo from 2030 and last week the British sportscar company Lotus said it would follow suit, selling only electric models from 2028.

General Motors says it will make only electric vehicles by 2035, Ford says all vehicles sold in Europe will be electric by 2030 and VW says 70% of its sales will be electric by 2030."

Why electric cars will take over sooner than you think

The BBC's Justin Rowlatt explains why we are accelerating towards an electric car future.

www.bbc.com

It is definitely coming very quick....every time I fill up my tank I wonder why I haven't gone electric yet.

Almost half the price of a tank of gas is tax.
While EVs are exempt for now, they will start having to pay the same tax soon.

Gas vehicles are subjected to the ebb and flow of OPEC and other influences. EVs not as much. So while gas is skyrocketing EVs wouldn't be subjected to this. A little, not much.

As far as taxing some states already tax for charging. Not sure how they handle charging at home.

We have little natural gas, and will soon run out, so then will have to import natural gas from OPEC, just like oil.
There is no independence from OPEC with EV. The US has oil too, but that does not alter that OPEC has a lot more.

Natural gas is only one source of fuel. Of course you believe that we will never increase our renewable energy sources (even as we have been doing just that) so to you this argument is stuck in time.

 

[Rigby5]

g

Airbags have saved the lives of over 50k people. How many have they killed?

Again, not a single one, because permanent padding would have worked much better, been reliable, not exploded, etc.
There was never any rational reason for airbags, and they were always a dumb idea.

That padding existed before airbags so, no you'd be wrong again.

Also your article mentions that the guy in S.C. received recall notices and he ignored them. Very dumb thing to do.

Wrong.
I am talking about additional padding that was only tried experimentally.
Works much better.
There is a huge distance between you and the windshield.
That gives you time to accelerate towards it.
You need padding that prevents you from being able to hit the windshield, similar to an air bag, but does not deflate.
Like the padded bar they pull down over you in an amusement ride.

The padded bar on an amusement ride isn't feet away from you, it's an inch or less. The padding is more for comfort than protecting you as your inertia is stopped immediately by the bar.

Being thrown into padding going 60 miles an hour is probably better than nothing but not much.

That is what my point was.
The experimental padding they tested that worked better than airbags was close up.
The padding on a ride is not for comfort, but required lifesavers.
The bar in a car should be attached to your seat, not explode towards you from the dash.
If you are leaning forward, an explosive airbag can be deadly if if not malfunctioning.
Why do you think they don't let kids ride in the front any more?

Well, as soon as you demonstrate that some expert somewhere says to forego airbags for padding only...until then you're not really demonstrating anything.

Has anyone ever used airbags in race cars, amusement rides, airplanes, or anything else?

 

[Rigby5]

bad bad news for all authoritarian gas-stations like KSA, Muscovy, Venezuela , what will happened to them once oil (so no crazy jets full of cash landing on the roof of the Putin´s dacha) becomes what is coal today ?

"
....
We are in the middle of the biggest revolution in motoring since Henry Ford's first production line started turning back in 1913.
And it is likely to happen much more quickly than you imagine.
Many industry observers believe we have already passed the tipping point where sales of electric vehicles (EVs) will very rapidly overwhelm petrol and diesel cars....

Jaguar plans to sell only electric cars from 2025, Volvo from 2030 and last week the British sportscar company Lotus said it would follow suit, selling only electric models from 2028.

General Motors says it will make only electric vehicles by 2035, Ford says all vehicles sold in Europe will be electric by 2030 and VW says 70% of its sales will be electric by 2030."

Why electric cars will take over sooner than you think

The BBC's Justin Rowlatt explains why we are accelerating towards an electric car future.

www.bbc.com

It is definitely coming very quick....every time I fill up my tank I wonder why I haven't gone electric yet.

Almost half the price of a tank of gas is tax.
While EVs are exempt for now, they will start having to pay the same tax soon.

Gas vehicles are subjected to the ebb and flow of OPEC and other influences. EVs not as much. So while gas is skyrocketing EVs wouldn't be subjected to this. A little, not much.

As far as taxing some states already tax for charging. Not sure how they handle charging at home.

We have little natural gas, and will soon run out, so then will have to import natural gas from OPEC, just like oil.
There is no independence from OPEC with EV. The US has oil too, but that does not alter that OPEC has a lot more.

Natural gas is only one source of fuel. Of course you believe that we will never increase our renewable energy sources (even as we have been doing just that) so to you this argument is stuck in time.

Natural gas is only one source of fuel, but it only is cheap right now due to the fraking in places like the Dakotas, and that will very soon run out.
Sure we will increase our renewables, but our over all use will increase even faster, so the % satisfied by renewables will decrease.
Bio fuel obviously is the answer, and China is buying up farmland in Africa.

 

[westwall]

bad bad news for all authoritarian gas-stations like KSA, Muscovy, Venezuela , what will happened to them once oil (so no crazy jets full of cash landing on the roof of the Putin´s dacha) becomes what is coal today ?

"
....
We are in the middle of the biggest revolution in motoring since Henry Ford's first production line started turning back in 1913.
And it is likely to happen much more quickly than you imagine.
Many industry observers believe we have already passed the tipping point where sales of electric vehicles (EVs) will very rapidly overwhelm petrol and diesel cars....

Jaguar plans to sell only electric cars from 2025, Volvo from 2030 and last week the British sportscar company Lotus said it would follow suit, selling only electric models from 2028.

General Motors says it will make only electric vehicles by 2035, Ford says all vehicles sold in Europe will be electric by 2030 and VW says 70% of its sales will be electric by 2030."

Why electric cars will take over sooner than you think

The BBC's Justin Rowlatt explains why we are accelerating towards an electric car future.

www.bbc.com

It is definitely coming very quick....every time I fill up my tank I wonder why I haven't gone electric yet.

Because you're too poor. Duh. EV's are expensive playthings.

 

[westwall]

g

Airbags have saved the lives of over 50k people. How many have they killed?

Again, not a single one, because permanent padding would have worked much better, been reliable, not exploded, etc.
There was never any rational reason for airbags, and they were always a dumb idea.

That padding existed before airbags so, no you'd be wrong again.

Also your article mentions that the guy in S.C. received recall notices and he ignored them. Very dumb thing to do.

Wrong.
I am talking about additional padding that was only tried experimentally.
Works much better.
There is a huge distance between you and the windshield.
That gives you time to accelerate towards it.
You need padding that prevents you from being able to hit the windshield, similar to an air bag, but does not deflate.
Like the padded bar they pull down over you in an amusement ride.

The padded bar on an amusement ride isn't feet away from you, it's an inch or less. The padding is more for comfort than protecting you as your inertia is stopped immediately by the bar.

Being thrown into padding going 60 miles an hour is probably better than nothing but not much.

That is what my point was.
The experimental padding they tested that worked better than airbags was close up.
The padding on a ride is not for comfort, but required lifesavers.
The bar in a car should be attached to your seat, not explode towards you from the dash.
If you are leaning forward, an explosive airbag can be deadly if if not malfunctioning.
Why do you think they don't let kids ride in the front any more?

Well, as soon as you demonstrate that some expert somewhere says to forego airbags for padding only...until then you're not really demonstrating anything.

Has anyone ever used airbags in race cars, amusement rides, airplanes, or anything else?

Nope. Too heavy. 5 point harness, and roll cages work far better anyway.

 

[Rigby5]

g

Airbags have saved the lives of over 50k people. How many have they killed?

Again, not a single one, because permanent padding would have worked much better, been reliable, not exploded, etc.
There was never any rational reason for airbags, and they were always a dumb idea.

That padding existed before airbags so, no you'd be wrong again.

Also your article mentions that the guy in S.C. received recall notices and he ignored them. Very dumb thing to do.

Wrong.
I am talking about additional padding that was only tried experimentally.
Works much better.
There is a huge distance between you and the windshield.
That gives you time to accelerate towards it.
You need padding that prevents you from being able to hit the windshield, similar to an air bag, but does not deflate.
Like the padded bar they pull down over you in an amusement ride.

The padded bar on an amusement ride isn't feet away from you, it's an inch or less. The padding is more for comfort than protecting you as your inertia is stopped immediately by the bar.

Being thrown into padding going 60 miles an hour is probably better than nothing but not much.

That is what my point was.
The experimental padding they tested that worked better than airbags was close up.
The padding on a ride is not for comfort, but required lifesavers.
The bar in a car should be attached to your seat, not explode towards you from the dash.
If you are leaning forward, an explosive airbag can be deadly if if not malfunctioning.
Why do you think they don't let kids ride in the front any more?

Well, as soon as you demonstrate that some expert somewhere says to forego airbags for padding only...until then you're not really demonstrating anything.

Has anyone ever used airbags in race cars, amusement rides, airplanes, or anything else?

Nope. Too heavy. 5 point harness, and roll cages work far better anyway.

You mean too deadly.
When an airbag goes off, you can't see, and your hands are thrown off the wheel.
A formula for disaster really.
No one should ever want them.