Why higher education should be free

[Uncensored2008]

I don't think you'd be able to prove that.

What are you talking about?

List of countries by GDP (PPP) per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How much of the US$48,442 you earn is spent on healthcare, retirement savings and education - which here is free?

I spend about $200 a month on health insurance - for a family. Government retirement is through social security - similar to Finland. In both cases, if you don't want to eat dog food, you better sock some away.

Fact is, Americans have a higher standard of living.

 

[Saigon]

Uncensored -

The standard of living in the US may well be marginally higher than Finland - but it would be marginal. Certainly I would not claim Finns are economically better off.

Your gross salaries are significantly higher - but then so are those healthcare and education costs. I actually think it is quite difficult to compare wealthy nations like-on-like because there are so many factors in play.

If you take climate into account, Finland would be fighting it out with Mongolia and Tierra del Fuego.


With education it is also interesting to consider outcomes:

Scientific literacy:

#3 Finland
#14 USA

Mathematical literacy:

#4 Finland
#18 USA

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/edu_mat_lit-education-mathematical-literacy


Yes, we do have advantages of being a small country, but even so...I think there is something to think about here in terms of the systems and how they perform. Japan and Korea own these stats, and they are large economies.

 

[SniperFire]

Bob Samuels: Why All Public Higher Education Should Be Free

Tell me why this would be wrong? Do we want a nation of idiots? Ya see what that got us...Bush for 2 terms and Obama so far for one....seriously tell me how normal people can afford college without going into extreme debt...

This asshole is always clamoring for freedom - that is until he wants to force others to work hard and pay for everyone's education until they are 25 years old.

Typical Occupier moron.


LOL

 

[Saigon]

Sniper Fire -

Do ou ever wish you had gone to school?

 

[Uncensored2008]

No, that is an answer more based on patisanship than reality.

Nope, that's a fact. Europe strictly rations University admission. Artvelde made a great point about foreign students; which you will find very few of in Finland, and those that you do find will pay outrageous sums. The United States welcomes students from around the world, we are unique in this. There are a few, very high end, European universities that also welcome foreign students - for a price, but these are few and insanely expensive.

In every country, there are some restrictions on university attendance.

And this is what you don't grasp. With any resource, there must be a limit on distribution. How that is conducted varies, but the pretense that Finland, or any European nation, offers free education to all comers is utter nonsense. Finland offers a far smaller percentage of the population higher education than the USA does - that is simple fact. Both nations ration education, but the method of rationing differ. In Finland, political pull and social class are the basis of admittance. In the USA it is a matter or paying. In both cases the wealthy are assured an education and the poor are less likely. The USA has no aristocracy, Europe does, so "station" is a large determining factor. Anyone who has the cash or financing can get into higher education.

Still, a far greater percent of Americans receive a college education than in any other country in the world.

In Finland the only criteria is entrance exam results.

Nonsense. Social status and political ties are vital.

In the US cost is also a criteria.

Any Finnish student failing entrance exams or failing to make the cut for a particular course can take the exams again, apply again, or go on to take other courses or attend a free polytech.

Then why is the percentage of college educated people so much lower?

I agree that not every B- student can go on to complete an LLB, but if they improve their grades than they can. Cost is not a factor in "rationing".

I find cost to be an effective means of rationing - the MOST effective. I far prefer it to political pull.

(I don't have the stats on Masters per capita here, but I'll try and fnd it over the weekend - I think it's in Finnish will need translation, and I don't have time to do that today.)

I don't have them either. I teach at the world's largest private University system, so I'm sure I can locate them. (Part time, we use working professional for all instruction.)

 

[Saigon]

which you will find very few of in Finland, and those that you do find will pay outrageous sums

Ha! Actually no, it is free for them too - and there are several thousand foreign students here, particularly at Otaniemi.

TKK - Aalto University School of Science and Technology

Nonsense. Social status and political ties are vital.

This really is just laugh-oud-loud hilarious...honestly, where do you get this stuff??!!

Then why is the percentage of college educated people so much lower?

We don't have "college" as a concept, genius!!

So the percentage is 0%!!!

Finland offers a far smaller percentage of the population higher education than the USA does - that is simple fact.

More hilarity....!

Yes, because we don't have college as a concept, we clearly don't have any tertiary education! Silly of me to forget that!

 

[Uncensored2008]

With education it is also interesting to consider outcomes:

Scientific literacy:

#3 Finland
#14 USA

Mathematical literacy:

#4 Finland
#18 USA

Mathematical literacy statistics - countries compared - NationMaster Education

We have 330 million people.

We account for the vast majority or scientific and medical advancements in the world. Yes, there are a lot of ignorant and uneducated Americans, (who elected Obama!) but we also turn out the greatest scientific and medical minds in the world. This is not to say no other country has talented people, obviously there are great minds at CERN and other European institutions. Still, the USA produces the lions share. We have dominated scientific advancement since the 19th century, and continue to do so with biotech.

Yes, we do have advantages of being a small country, but even so...I think there is something to think about here in terms of the systems and how they perform. Japan and Korea own these stats, and they are large economies.

The most significant breakthrough by America in the 20th century is arguably the integrated circuit. This has altered the lives of literally every person on the planet.

What would you say Finland's great contribution to mankind is?

 

[Saigon]

What would you say Finland's great contribution to mankind is?

The mobile phone.

 

[SniperFire]

What would you say Finland's great contribution to mankind is?

The mobile phone.

LOL

I was thinking those little windmill cookies with almond chips in them.

 

[Avorysuds]

....seriously tell me how normal people can afford college without going into extreme debt...

By ending the government monopoly on affordable education.

So getting government out of education is all of a sudden going to make education free or at least affordable? How?

Education is already near free... Hell an internet connection can teach you about near any subject in more depth than was taught in schools just 10-15 years ago.

 

[Saigon]

What would you say Finland's great contribution to mankind is?

The mobile phone.

LOL

I was thinking those little windmill cookies with almond chips in them.

I think that's Holland.....? Or possibly Minnesota?

Presumably they didn't have Geography where you went to school?

We also invited licorice-flavoured vodka. Beat that. And possibly the entire concept of high-sticking in hockey.

 

[Uncensored2008]

which you will find very few of in Finland, and those that you do find will pay outrageous sums

Ha! Actually no, it is free for them too - and there are several thousand foreign students here, particularly at Otaniemi.

TKK - Aalto University School of Science and Technology

Try again.

From your link:

{For the intake of 2013, the programmes listed below will charge a tuition fee of 8000 EUR/academic year from non—EU/EEA-citizens. Aalto University also offers scholarships for non-EU/EEA-citizens in these programmes. }

This really is just laugh-oud-loud hilarious...honestly, where do you get this stuff??!!

I'm well educated, so I read a great deal.

http://www.laccei.org/LACCEI2010-Peru/Papers/Papers_pdf/IGE082_Gapinski.pdf

We don't have "college" as a concept, genius!!

A University is a collection of colleges.

I begin to wonder about the Finnish educational system.

{

col·lege (klj)
n.
1.
a. An institution of higher learning that grants the bachelor's degree in liberal arts or science or both.
b. An undergraduate division or school of a university offering courses and granting degrees in a particular field.}

So the percentage is 0%!!!

Seriously sparky, you may want to check your ignorance at the door.

More hilarity....!

Yes, because we don't have college as a concept, we clearly don't have any tertiary education! Silly of me to forget that!

Moron, you do have colleges - you have many institutions that offer bachelors degrees.

 

[Uncensored2008]

The mobile phone.

Motorola is a Finnish company?

Damn, never knew that..

 

[SniperFire]

The mobile phone.

LOL

I was thinking those little windmill cookies with almond chips in them.

I think that's Holland.....? Or possibly Minnesota?

Presumably they didn't have Geography where you went to school?

We also invited licorice-flavoured vodka. Beat that. And possibly the entire concept of high-sticking in hockey.

You tiny, lilly-white little borats are all the same.


LOL

 

[Uncensored2008]

LOL

I was thinking those little windmill cookies with almond chips in them.

Motorola "invented" the mobile telephone and holds the patent for cellular design. Nokia is just an electronics manufacturer, they didn't create anything. They were part of the board that set the GSM standard for Europe, but that was as a member, not the principle.

 

[Toro]

What would you say Finland's great contribution to mankind is?

The mobile phone.

The sauna.

 

[tjvh]

I haven't read the whole thread so someone may have said this, but Finland has free education right up to and including university.

We have the highest rates of master degrees in the world.

I recommend the system, but it does need to be carefully planned. I don't think it is a panacea.

So education in Finland is free? Nobody pays for it? What nonsense. You are completely clueless.

No... Some of them really believe that free means free. They honestly believe that something the Government gives them has not been made possible by the hard work of others.

 

[Unkotare]

What would you say Finland's great contribution to mankind is?

The mobile phone.

The sauna.

It's gotta be Saigon. Don't you know how special he is? He has actually travelled to foreign countries! He has completed the intermediate level ESL course! He is very elite (I know 'cause he said so)!

 

[Wiseacre]

I haven't read the whole thread so someone may have said this, but Finland has free education right up to and including university.

We have the highest rates of master degrees in the world.

I recommend the system, but it does need to be carefully planned. I don't think it is a panacea.

So education in Finland is free? Nobody pays for it? What nonsense. You are completely clueless.

No... Some of them really believe that free means free. They honestly believe that something the Government gives them has not been made possible by the hard work of others.

Lotta people in this country believe that too. They believe they're entitled to gov't support and don't really care where the money comes from.

 

[LilOlLady]

Even under Saddam higher education was free and elementary and highschool was mandatory. Many came to Iraq to go to school .We put an end to all that and we should be proud. Free higher education is an investment in our future and our success. We could easily afford it because it would pay off in the long run.
Plus Saddam took very good care of his military and their families. With land and money.



Education in Iraq
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Iraq