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In my opinion, it is a man made and made up concept because human beings have a need to "explain" everything. We are curious by nature and that is only normal that when there is ignorance, we would attribute some things to a "higher power" or to "gods." I think a lot of this stems from our fear of the unknown, and especially dying and death. It's very comforting to believe that you will see your deceased loved ones again and be reunited with them in a "heaven" type of place. I don't like to take that away from others. I guess if that helps some people deal with loss or their eventual demise, then it's all good. I do not like when they try to guilt other people or even threaten them (with hell, etc) to believe or to live like they do though.
I realize this is your opinion, Chris, but I disagree. By nature, we are spiritual creatures. We always have been as best we can tell. Humans have this intrinsic spiritual awareness that nothing else in nature seems to have... if other things have it, we don't see it manifest as such. It is THIS spiritual awareness we have that makes us "fear death" or have a problem coping with it.
When you objectively look at nature, there are things which can see better, hear better, taste better, smell better and have a better sense of touch than human beings. We don't even master our own senses as far as species go. Some animals are capable of amazing things that humans could never do... Would you have any idea which flowers need pollinating and when? I wouldn't have a clue. Would you know how to build a massive colony or hive? Bees and ants know. Could you smell food 5 miles away? A bear or shark can. So as you can see, we really suck in terms of what we can do compared to most of nature.
The ONE thing we have an advantage on is our spiritual connection. It is through our belief in some power greater than self that enabled humans to become what we are. We even invented a word to describe the effect... Inspiration.
Now... Does this mean there is a "deity" associated with this spirituality? I don't know, no one does. That's where faith comes in. Even the most devoutly religious believer in God does not KNOW and cannot KNOW until they die, if they were correct. They can only believe and have faith. This is why I can't believe in Christian god of the Bible. It's not that I reject it, I just can't believe it on faith. However, I need NO faith to understand and feel my spiritual connection. Spiritual Nature is my God, it doesn't judge or condemn, it doesn't love or forgive.
There is no such thing as evil if there is no God.No, when I judge God, at least your God, I'd crucify the SOB myself, take him down, burn him, and do it again. Any God that thinks this is a valid place for even the most remotely decent, intelligent, and conscious human would be a monster that would defy description.You keep looking at people to judge God, no wonder you struggle. Look at what Jesus did, taught and why he taught it.You're dangerous because you will do, sometimes, what your holy book says to without using the supposedly rational brain you claim God gave you. If you did actually do what Jesus taught, I'd give you a pass. He might have been a loon but for the most part, he wasn't a selfish blind asshole like most Americans.So which is it, I'm dangerous for helping the poor or because I changed and started helping the poor?What did Jesus tell you to do, keep to yourself and horde your possessions?Well that is true. Highly irrational of me spending hundreds of hours and big $ helping people who I will likely never see again, let alone get repaid. And yes, I think Satan considers such behavior as dangerous.
Don't pat yourself on the back for doing as your Savior taught. He taught about that as well eh?
Which is the threat you're worried about?
Got to go, off to meet with a pastor about an orphanage in Southeast Asia.
And here we are right back to the Problem of Evil, why most people don't believe in God. Ditheism gets around that by the way, this is Hell created by that God and you are trying your best to get to the nicer one. The God of the Bible, not him, he's a monster.
Clear it up for us, what is said light?And said light is?
Wow. You ARE plodding. I mean, you generally are; but you seem unable and unwilling to elevate your game.
I just now finished explaining the light I was shown. (Really, it shone upon me from the heavens.) Let me repeat it for your dim witted benefit:
I am more or less obliged to SHARE, with the people, my quite valuable insights and musings!
In the alternative: Free will, baby!
Again, oh plodding pal, I already did. And what you MEANT was "clear it up for YOU."
Sorry, but you are obviously far too stupid to have much of anything cleared up for you.
I'm sorry, but I'm not seeing the light.
that's your vision issue.
Not mine!
Maybe the bulb needs to be replaced.
I'm not even seeing this,Clear it up for us, what is said light?And said light is?Of course. I have seen the light. I am more or less obliged to SHARE, with the people, my quite valuable insights and musings!
In the alternative: Free will, baby!
Wow. You ARE plodding. I mean, you generally are; but you seem unable and unwilling to elevate your game.
I just now finished explaining the light I was shown. (Really, it shone upon me from the heavens.) Let me repeat it for your dim witted benefit:
I am more or less obliged to SHARE, with the people, my quite valuable insights and musings!
In the alternative: Free will, baby!
Again, oh plodding pal, I already did. And what you MEANT was "clear it up for YOU."
Sorry, but you are obviously far too stupid to have much of anything cleared up for you.
I'm sorry, but I'm not seeing the light.
Evil, like God, is a human concept. Tell me, is evil what God disapproves of? If God tells you to slaughter infants, is that not evil?There is no such thing as evil if there is no God.No, when I judge God, at least your God, I'd crucify the SOB myself, take him down, burn him, and do it again. Any God that thinks this is a valid place for even the most remotely decent, intelligent, and conscious human would be a monster that would defy description.You keep looking at people to judge God, no wonder you struggle. Look at what Jesus did, taught and why he taught it.You're dangerous because you will do, sometimes, what your holy book says to without using the supposedly rational brain you claim God gave you. If you did actually do what Jesus taught, I'd give you a pass. He might have been a loon but for the most part, he wasn't a selfish blind asshole like most Americans.So which is it, I'm dangerous for helping the poor or because I changed and started helping the poor?What did Jesus tell you to do, keep to yourself and horde your possessions?
Don't pat yourself on the back for doing as your Savior taught. He taught about that as well eh?
Which is the threat you're worried about?
Got to go, off to meet with a pastor about an orphanage in Southeast Asia.
And here we are right back to the Problem of Evil, why most people don't believe in God. Ditheism gets around that by the way, this is Hell created by that God and you are trying your best to get to the nicer one. The God of the Bible, not him, he's a monster.
If I was born in Iran I'd be a Muslim because I'd be beheaded for not being Muslim. Only one reason Islam is afraid, but that's for another topic.Jews Muslims and Hindu say the exact same thing. If you were born in Iran, you'd be a Muslim.Like many, I came to faith by researching the evidence. My entire career has been in science, and almost 20 years ago I saw something I couldn't explain. Still took me a few years. I'd be a Jew, Muslim, Hindu or whatever if they had more evidence.Very good point. If the people who saw him didn't convert, why did the people who later just heard about him convert? For example, my ignorant Greek ancestors who were worshipping Zeus then fell for that Jesus crap. Didn't they ask for evidence? Of course they didn't! Do Americans today ask for proof? Nope! They just swallow whatever their parents and preachers tell them.Oh, and you personally seeing Jesus may or may not be enough. Remember what people did to him.He could return I suppose? He's slightly overdue, roughly 2,000 years.Is there anything that would make you have faith that Jesus is real?
And most of us like Jesus a whole lot more than the people who supposedly follow him...
People don't come to faith because they are fooled. Anyone who honestly wants to know the truth will seek it and end up in the same boat I'm in.
Why won't the devil possess me? I fucking dare him!!! Bring it Satan!!! I'll be waiting in bed tonight for your pussy ass to come get me. I'm not scared of you. Is there a word one should never say? Tell me what that word is and I'll say it with rosary beeds shoved up my butt.Well, whatever this light is it's not important enough for you to just say it so, that ends that.Clear it up for us, what is said light?And said light is?Of course. I have seen the light. I am more or less obliged to SHARE, with the people, my quite valuable insights and musings!
In the alternative: Free will, baby!
Wow. You ARE plodding. I mean, you generally are; but you seem unable and unwilling to elevate your game.
I just now finished explaining the light I was shown. (Really, it shone upon me from the heavens.) Let me repeat it for your dim witted benefit:
I am more or less obliged to SHARE, with the people, my quite valuable insights and musings!
In the alternative: Free will, baby!
Again, oh plodding pal, I already did. And what you MEANT was "clear it up for YOU."
Sorry, but you are obviously far too stupid to have much of anything cleared up for you.
Nobody claims atheists can't be moral. Many are fine outstanding citizens.My life is far more moral than the average "Christian", and I don't fly planes into buildings or burn witches because God said to.Is that your hang up? You bow to no one?The vast majority of the faithful were raised as faithful. Just because a faith appeals to fools. slaves, and children cannot be helped.Not true at all. Christianity is sweeping thru Asia and the Middle East like a wildfire. These people have zero background in Christianity. I'm from an agnostic home and was agnostic until I did my homework.If only. Faith for most is nothing more than what you were raised with.
Even someone who died so you may live?
Let me explain his hangup (and probably the hangup of most anti-Christians)...
They realize how all belief in God requires faith and cannot be physically proved. This allows them to disbelieve and challenge others to "prove" God, which they know, can't be done. Now the thing about freeing yourself from belief in God is that you also free yourself from any moral responsibility. This allows people like PaintFumes to live the decadent lifestyle he enjoys without guilt or accountability.
Most humans are believers because:
1. They were raised that way.
2. They see design and think Designer.
3. Death scares the crap out of them and therefore they want a way out.
God is the easy answer. If you accept it you go off and make babies and plow the fields, all most people will ever do that matters...
Nah. Not really. It's in the wrong forum, anyway.
A "discussion" would maybe be more of an open question along the lines of "let's talk about why we either do or do not believe in a God or in gods?"
An egotistical bit of pontificating would presume that anybody either does or should give a crap about HIS personal disinclination to believe in God.
Why on Earth would it matter to most other people "why" he happens to be one of many non believers?
I mean. Good for him. But who cares?
Okay, fair point, but I still find it a good spring board to discussion about the belief and why it exists, etc, but yeah, people love to talk about themselves too.
If this thread had been posted in the Religion forum, the challenge to my snarky commentary about the OP would be more on point.
I do agree that EVERY participant in almost all discussions on the Board is demonstrating a bit of ego. It's like they are claiming "hey. listen to what I have to say about this topic. MY thoughts are worthy of YOUR time and consideration!"
Of course, some of us are right. Some aren't.
Is there some noble reason why you are posting your thoughts and opinions?
Of course. I have seen the light. I am more or less obliged to SHARE, with the people, my quite valuable insights and musings!
In the alternative: Free will, baby!
Well . . . waiting.
Why won't the devil possess me? I fucking dare him!!! Bring it Satan!!! I'll be waiting in bed tonight for your pussy ass to come get me. I'm not scared of you. Is there a word one should never say? Tell me what that word is and I'll say it with rosary beeds shoved up my butt.Well, whatever this light is it's not important enough for you to just say it so, that ends that.Clear it up for us, what is said light?And said light is?
Wow. You ARE plodding. I mean, you generally are; but you seem unable and unwilling to elevate your game.
I just now finished explaining the light I was shown. (Really, it shone upon me from the heavens.) Let me repeat it for your dim witted benefit:
I am more or less obliged to SHARE, with the people, my quite valuable insights and musings!
In the alternative: Free will, baby!
Again, oh plodding pal, I already did. And what you MEANT was "clear it up for YOU."
Sorry, but you are obviously far too stupid to have much of anything cleared up for you.
Okay, fair point, but I still find it a good spring board to discussion about the belief and why it exists, etc, but yeah, people love to talk about themselves too.
If this thread had been posted in the Religion forum, the challenge to my snarky commentary about the OP would be more on point.
I do agree that EVERY participant in almost all discussions on the Board is demonstrating a bit of ego. It's like they are claiming "hey. listen to what I have to say about this topic. MY thoughts are worthy of YOUR time and consideration!"
Of course, some of us are right. Some aren't.
Is there some noble reason why you are posting your thoughts and opinions?
Of course. I have seen the light. I am more or less obliged to SHARE, with the people, my quite valuable insights and musings!
In the alternative: Free will, baby!
Well . . . waiting.
We all wait for lots of things.
WTF are YOU waiting on?
Curious minds wish to know.
I don't hear a lot of Iranians who come to America to escape Islam say that they were secretly Christians.If I was born in Iran I'd be a Muslim because I'd be beheaded for not being Muslim. Only one reason Islam is afraid, but that's for another topic.Jews Muslims and Hindu say the exact same thing. If you were born in Iran, you'd be a Muslim.Like many, I came to faith by researching the evidence. My entire career has been in science, and almost 20 years ago I saw something I couldn't explain. Still took me a few years. I'd be a Jew, Muslim, Hindu or whatever if they had more evidence.Very good point. If the people who saw him didn't convert, why did the people who later just heard about him convert? For example, my ignorant Greek ancestors who were worshipping Zeus then fell for that Jesus crap. Didn't they ask for evidence? Of course they didn't! Do Americans today ask for proof? Nope! They just swallow whatever their parents and preachers tell them.Oh, and you personally seeing Jesus may or may not be enough. Remember what people did to him.He could return I suppose? He's slightly overdue, roughly 2,000 years.
And most of us like Jesus a whole lot more than the people who supposedly follow him...
People don't come to faith because they are fooled. Anyone who honestly wants to know the truth will seek it and end up in the same boat I'm in.
Okay, fair point, but I still find it a good spring board to discussion about the belief and why it exists, etc, but yeah, people love to talk about themselves too.
If this thread had been posted in the Religion forum, the challenge to my snarky commentary about the OP would be more on point.
I do agree that EVERY participant in almost all discussions on the Board is demonstrating a bit of ego. It's like they are claiming "hey. listen to what I have to say about this topic. MY thoughts are worthy of YOUR time and consideration!"
Of course, some of us are right. Some aren't.
Is there some noble reason why you are posting your thoughts and opinions?
Of course. I have seen the light. I am more or less obliged to SHARE, with the people, my quite valuable insights and musings!
In the alternative: Free will, baby!
Well . . . waiting.
We all wait for lots of things.
WTF are YOU waiting on?
Curious minds wish to know.
How is it that the earliest records of mankind have this concept of good and evil?Evil, like God, is a human concept. Tell me, is evil what God disapproves of? If God tells you to slaughter infants, is that not evil?There is no such thing as evil if there is no God.No, when I judge God, at least your God, I'd crucify the SOB myself, take him down, burn him, and do it again. Any God that thinks this is a valid place for even the most remotely decent, intelligent, and conscious human would be a monster that would defy description.You keep looking at people to judge God, no wonder you struggle. Look at what Jesus did, taught and why he taught it.You're dangerous because you will do, sometimes, what your holy book says to without using the supposedly rational brain you claim God gave you. If you did actually do what Jesus taught, I'd give you a pass. He might have been a loon but for the most part, he wasn't a selfish blind asshole like most Americans.So which is it, I'm dangerous for helping the poor or because I changed and started helping the poor?
Which is the threat you're worried about?
Got to go, off to meet with a pastor about an orphanage in Southeast Asia.
And here we are right back to the Problem of Evil, why most people don't believe in God. Ditheism gets around that by the way, this is Hell created by that God and you are trying your best to get to the nicer one. The God of the Bible, not him, he's a monster.
And how are those living in Iran even aware of Jesus? You think they have Billy Graham on the tele or something?I don't hear a lot of Iranians who come to America to escape Islam say that they were secretly Christians.If I was born in Iran I'd be a Muslim because I'd be beheaded for not being Muslim. Only one reason Islam is afraid, but that's for another topic.Jews Muslims and Hindu say the exact same thing. If you were born in Iran, you'd be a Muslim.Like many, I came to faith by researching the evidence. My entire career has been in science, and almost 20 years ago I saw something I couldn't explain. Still took me a few years. I'd be a Jew, Muslim, Hindu or whatever if they had more evidence.Very good point. If the people who saw him didn't convert, why did the people who later just heard about him convert? For example, my ignorant Greek ancestors who were worshipping Zeus then fell for that Jesus crap. Didn't they ask for evidence? Of course they didn't! Do Americans today ask for proof? Nope! They just swallow whatever their parents and preachers tell them.Oh, and you personally seeing Jesus may or may not be enough. Remember what people did to him.
People don't come to faith because they are fooled. Anyone who honestly wants to know the truth will seek it and end up in the same boat I'm in.
You know you can secretly believe the truth? That's what us atheists do when we go to church. We don't tell the priest and members we think they are stupid. We just go along. So too could Muslims in Iran. They've heard the Jesus stories. Just quietly believe. But they don't. Neither do Chinese people. They've all heard about Jesus. If it were obviously true, they'd be converting by the millions.
And if it were really true, what better reason to revolt? But I don't think they are believing the Jesus stories just like you don't believe what they say about Mohammad.
And consider all the Muslim Americans who don't convert. If it were obviously true they would, but it isn't.
I don't hear a lot of Iranians who come to America to escape Islam say that they were secretly Christians.If I was born in Iran I'd be a Muslim because I'd be beheaded for not being Muslim. Only one reason Islam is afraid, but that's for another topic.Jews Muslims and Hindu say the exact same thing. If you were born in Iran, you'd be a Muslim.Like many, I came to faith by researching the evidence. My entire career has been in science, and almost 20 years ago I saw something I couldn't explain. Still took me a few years. I'd be a Jew, Muslim, Hindu or whatever if they had more evidence.Very good point. If the people who saw him didn't convert, why did the people who later just heard about him convert? For example, my ignorant Greek ancestors who were worshipping Zeus then fell for that Jesus crap. Didn't they ask for evidence? Of course they didn't! Do Americans today ask for proof? Nope! They just swallow whatever their parents and preachers tell them.Oh, and you personally seeing Jesus may or may not be enough. Remember what people did to him.
People don't come to faith because they are fooled. Anyone who honestly wants to know the truth will seek it and end up in the same boat I'm in.
You know you can secretly believe the truth? That's what us atheists do when we go to church. We don't tell the priest and members we think they are stupid. We just go along. So too could Muslims in Iran. They've heard the Jesus stories. Just quietly believe. But they don't. Neither do Chinese people. They've all heard about Jesus. If it were obviously true, they'd be converting by the millions.
And if it were really true, what better reason to revolt? But I don't think they are believing the Jesus stories just like you don't believe what they say about Mohammad.
And consider all the Muslim Americans who don't convert. If it were obviously true they would, but it isn't.
Not according to many, and most here who believe they are not believers so they can bed down with kittens and serve puppy paté...Nobody claims atheists can't be moral. Many are fine outstanding citizens.My life is far more moral than the average "Christian", and I don't fly planes into buildings or burn witches because God said to.Is that your hang up? You bow to no one?The vast majority of the faithful were raised as faithful. Just because a faith appeals to fools. slaves, and children cannot be helped.Not true at all. Christianity is sweeping thru Asia and the Middle East like a wildfire. These people have zero background in Christianity. I'm from an agnostic home and was agnostic until I did my homework.
Even someone who died so you may live?
Let me explain his hangup (and probably the hangup of most anti-Christians)...
They realize how all belief in God requires faith and cannot be physically proved. This allows them to disbelieve and challenge others to "prove" God, which they know, can't be done. Now the thing about freeing yourself from belief in God is that you also free yourself from any moral responsibility. This allows people like PaintFumes to live the decadent lifestyle he enjoys without guilt or accountability.
Most humans are believers because:
1. They were raised that way.
2. They see design and think Designer.
3. Death scares the crap out of them and therefore they want a way out.
God is the easy answer. If you accept it you go off and make babies and plow the fields, all most people will ever do that matters...
Considering that Jesus is also a Prophet in Islam, as is Moses, you wouldn't know that however, he would be tough to miss.And how are those living in Iran even aware of Jesus? You think they have Billy Graham on the tele or something?I don't hear a lot of Iranians who come to America to escape Islam say that they were secretly Christians.If I was born in Iran I'd be a Muslim because I'd be beheaded for not being Muslim. Only one reason Islam is afraid, but that's for another topic.Jews Muslims and Hindu say the exact same thing. If you were born in Iran, you'd be a Muslim.Like many, I came to faith by researching the evidence. My entire career has been in science, and almost 20 years ago I saw something I couldn't explain. Still took me a few years. I'd be a Jew, Muslim, Hindu or whatever if they had more evidence.Very good point. If the people who saw him didn't convert, why did the people who later just heard about him convert? For example, my ignorant Greek ancestors who were worshipping Zeus then fell for that Jesus crap. Didn't they ask for evidence? Of course they didn't! Do Americans today ask for proof? Nope! They just swallow whatever their parents and preachers tell them.
People don't come to faith because they are fooled. Anyone who honestly wants to know the truth will seek it and end up in the same boat I'm in.
You know you can secretly believe the truth? That's what us atheists do when we go to church. We don't tell the priest and members we think they are stupid. We just go along. So too could Muslims in Iran. They've heard the Jesus stories. Just quietly believe. But they don't. Neither do Chinese people. They've all heard about Jesus. If it were obviously true, they'd be converting by the millions.
And if it were really true, what better reason to revolt? But I don't think they are believing the Jesus stories just like you don't believe what they say about Mohammad.
And consider all the Muslim Americans who don't convert. If it were obviously true they would, but it isn't.
Islam is growing for the same reason thousands are joining Al Queda and Isis from the west - people are attracted to evil.Ha ha!Not true at all. Christianity is sweeping thru Asia and the Middle East like a wildfire. These people have zero background in Christianity. I'm from an agnostic home and was agnostic until I did my homework.If only. Faith for most is nothing more than what you were raised with.People don't come to faith because they are fooled.
Islam is the fastest growing religion in USA
Why Muslims are the world’s fastest-growing religious group
And why aren't Mormon's buying your story? They have their own twist. Is your sect of Christianity growing in Utah?
More of the naive. Muslims are taught that to simply touch a Bible would lead to demonic possession.Considering that Jesus is also a Prophet in Islam, as is Moses, you wouldn't know that however, he would be tough to miss.And how are those living in Iran even aware of Jesus? You think they have Billy Graham on the tele or something?I don't hear a lot of Iranians who come to America to escape Islam say that they were secretly Christians.If I was born in Iran I'd be a Muslim because I'd be beheaded for not being Muslim. Only one reason Islam is afraid, but that's for another topic.Jews Muslims and Hindu say the exact same thing. If you were born in Iran, you'd be a Muslim.Like many, I came to faith by researching the evidence. My entire career has been in science, and almost 20 years ago I saw something I couldn't explain. Still took me a few years. I'd be a Jew, Muslim, Hindu or whatever if they had more evidence.
People don't come to faith because they are fooled. Anyone who honestly wants to know the truth will seek it and end up in the same boat I'm in.
You know you can secretly believe the truth? That's what us atheists do when we go to church. We don't tell the priest and members we think they are stupid. We just go along. So too could Muslims in Iran. They've heard the Jesus stories. Just quietly believe. But they don't. Neither do Chinese people. They've all heard about Jesus. If it were obviously true, they'd be converting by the millions.
And if it were really true, what better reason to revolt? But I don't think they are believing the Jesus stories just like you don't believe what they say about Mohammad.
And consider all the Muslim Americans who don't convert. If it were obviously true they would, but it isn't.
What Muslims Believe About Prophets
