Why I don't believe in God

[Boss]

Anyways, the word :faith" doesn't always have the exact same meaning, like if I say "I have faith in my brother to get it right...". In this instance, having faith means that I think that there's a good chance that he'll get it right, not that my brother is unprovable, or that his success his unprovable. Is English not your first language?

actually that IS the exact same meaning.....you believe your brother will get it right even though it could never be proved.....

He might prove to get it right, or he might prove to get it wrong, faith is not an issue here... well, except for you and Bossy. And based on my knowledge of my brother and his past experiences, I can judge whether I deem him capable or not of getting it right. Basically giving the odds on whether he comes through or not.

Yeah, there is a lot of difference between having "faith" that a certain action will produce a certain outcome and having faith in a "god."

Define the difference please?

If I have to explain the difference, then I am probably much too intelligent to have a conversation with you at all!

That's it! Your bulb is too bright for us!

 

[Boss]

Yes, physical science discovers things about the physical universe all the time. That's how DM and DE were discovered. What physical science can't do is evaluate things outside of the confines of physics.

You can say that "you'd be wrong" and apply that to some faith you have in what the future holds... you have no way to know the future either.

To discover something, you have to have something to discover, meaning you just observed or measured something new. Thanks for clearing that up.

To discover something, you have to have something to discover...

Whut?? Have you ever heard of the term, "circular reasoning?"

A discovery needs something to discover. Pretty simple really.

I'm not following. How do you discover something you know is there to be discovered?

I never said that I knew it was there to discover. You made that up. Predictably.

Just trying to understand your convoluted logic. You seemed to indicate the discovery has to know it needs discovering or some such nonsense. I can't figure out what the hell you mean. We discover things all the time that we previously had no idea they needed to be discovered.

 

[ChrisL]

actually that IS the exact same meaning.....you believe your brother will get it right even though it could never be proved.....

He might prove to get it right, or he might prove to get it wrong, faith is not an issue here... well, except for you and Bossy. And based on my knowledge of my brother and his past experiences, I can judge whether I deem him capable or not of getting it right. Basically giving the odds on whether he comes through or not.

Yeah, there is a lot of difference between having "faith" that a certain action will produce a certain outcome and having faith in a "god."

Define the difference please?

If I have to explain the difference, then I am probably much too intelligent to have a conversation with you at all!

That's it! Your bulb is too bright for us!

Agreed.

 

[Mudda]

Where's your proof that spirituality isn't just made up?

Because it defies logic as well as nature and biology and because we find no evidence of when it could have been made up. It's irrational and illogical to think that humans have the ability to imagine something that isn't real as an explanation for something real. IF that were true, you would simply need to just imagine God is real and all your questions would be instantly answered forever. Obviously, you can't make yourself do that no matter how hard you try. So the premise that man "made up" something to explain what was happening or console fears or comfort them in death, or whatever crazy shit you've dreamed up with no evidence, is simply not logical or rational.

Study of biology is science... we have studied millions of life forms and we've never seen anything that retained fundamental attributes for no apparent reason or purpose... doesn't happen in nature. If human spiritual belief were superficial and unimportant they would not exist as a fundamental attribute in the species. This defies even the most simplistic notions of Darwinian theory as well as biology. And finally, every human civilization we've ever unearthed, back to the very oldest ones we've ever found, show signs of human spirituality. There simply is no evidence to show WHEN humans "invented" it because it has apparently always been a part of our history.

So there you have it in two paragraphs.

Spirituality is not a fundamental attribute of humans. I don't believe that a god or spirituality has been proven, and so do a lot of other people, as well as people who outright reject the notion of god...

But it certainly IS a fundamental attribute of humans. Your beliefs are irrelevant to the debate. Science shows that human spiritual beliefs have followed mankind for all his civilized existence as a species. To this day, it is prevalent in about 95% of the human race in some form. Only about 5% profess Nihilistic views which is the belief in nothing greater than self.

I don't believe God has been proven either. No one has claimed that. I am certainly not claiming I can prove God exists. But there is no question that human spirituality exists and has always existed in civilized man. Not only is it a fundamental attribute, it is our most defining attribute as a species.

"Your beliefs are irrelevant to the debate". So according to you, only your beliefs count in this discussion? Want to try telling me something I don't know?

"Not only is it a fundamental attribute, it is our most defining attribute as a species." You have not proven this yet. This is how you explained it "But it certainly IS a fundamental attribute of humans". You have nothing. Go back to bed.

 

[Mudda]

To discover something, you have to have something to discover, meaning you just observed or measured something new. Thanks for clearing that up.

To discover something, you have to have something to discover...

Whut?? Have you ever heard of the term, "circular reasoning?"

A discovery needs something to discover. Pretty simple really.

I'm not following. How do you discover something you know is there to be discovered?

I never said that I knew it was there to discover. You made that up. Predictably.

Just trying to understand your convoluted logic. You seemed to indicate the discovery has to know it needs discovering or some such nonsense. I can't figure out what the hell you mean. We discover things all the time that we previously had no idea they needed to be discovered.

You say "That's how DM and DE were discovered". Yet you claim that "physical science can't do is evaluate things outside of the confines of physics." Yet you admit that scientists have discovered it even though it's outside the confines of what they can measure. So how do you discover something that you can't tell is there? Call it spirituality?

 

[sealybobo]

And remember boss it is you religious people who...

But I am not RELIGIOUS... do you have peanut butter in your ears today?

Some days you worship Jesus. I've seen it. You are boss cherry picker.

I worship positive spiritual energy. I think the message and teachings of Jesus was probably one of the most profound things to ever happen to mankind. I find nothing offensive or undesirable about what Jesus taught. His message is pure love and forgiveness.

Remember he told jebidia he wouldn't live past 60? What a dick.

Oh yea that was you not Jesus. You're the dick.

 

[Boss]

Where's your proof that spirituality isn't just made up?

Because it defies logic as well as nature and biology and because we find no evidence of when it could have been made up. It's irrational and illogical to think that humans have the ability to imagine something that isn't real as an explanation for something real. IF that were true, you would simply need to just imagine God is real and all your questions would be instantly answered forever. Obviously, you can't make yourself do that no matter how hard you try. So the premise that man "made up" something to explain what was happening or console fears or comfort them in death, or whatever crazy shit you've dreamed up with no evidence, is simply not logical or rational.

Study of biology is science... we have studied millions of life forms and we've never seen anything that retained fundamental attributes for no apparent reason or purpose... doesn't happen in nature. If human spiritual belief were superficial and unimportant they would not exist as a fundamental attribute in the species. This defies even the most simplistic notions of Darwinian theory as well as biology. And finally, every human civilization we've ever unearthed, back to the very oldest ones we've ever found, show signs of human spirituality. There simply is no evidence to show WHEN humans "invented" it because it has apparently always been a part of our history.

So there you have it in two paragraphs.

Spirituality is not a fundamental attribute of humans. I don't believe that a god or spirituality has been proven, and so do a lot of other people, as well as people who outright reject the notion of god...

But it certainly IS a fundamental attribute of humans. Your beliefs are irrelevant to the debate. Science shows that human spiritual beliefs have followed mankind for all his civilized existence as a species. To this day, it is prevalent in about 95% of the human race in some form. Only about 5% profess Nihilistic views which is the belief in nothing greater than self.

I don't believe God has been proven either. No one has claimed that. I am certainly not claiming I can prove God exists. But there is no question that human spirituality exists and has always existed in civilized man. Not only is it a fundamental attribute, it is our most defining attribute as a species.

"Your beliefs are irrelevant to the debate". So according to you, only your beliefs count in this discussion? Want to try telling me something I don't know?

"Not only is it a fundamental attribute, it is our most defining attribute as a species." You have not proven this yet. This is how you explained it "But it certainly IS a fundamental attribute of humans". You have nothing. Go back to bed.

No... Beliefs are FAITH. Let's remember our definitions! So if we are discussing science, we aren't discussing our faith or beliefs. You telling me something is not so because you don't believe it's so, isn't a scientific argument, it is a profession of faith... and the same goes for me.

We can get into the dictionary definitions of what is "fundamental" and what is an "attribute" if you like, but you're going to lose again. I gave you the scientific evidence of human history proven by archaeological and paleontological discovery to support my statement and you've presenting nothing to contradict that other than your faith.

Yes, go back to bed and try to grow some more brain cells. Come back when you're ready to be educated some more on science and faith.

 

[sealybobo]

I find discussing the history of religion and theories on how it came to be (other than the religious people's theories of course - lol) much more interesting than arguing about whether or not there is actually a God or gods. I don't believe in religions, but I find it to be a fascinating topic. I find the fact that so many people believe in it to be fascinating too. I think of it almost like a form of "mass hysteria." Not to mention, "beliefs" are pounded into your head from the time you are a baby in a lot of cases, and you are told if you don't believe, this or that will happen, so it's very scary for us "nonbelievers" or "doubters" to actually come forward and say we are different and we don't believe. We know there are going to be people who "hate us" for feeling that way. Call us "demons", etc.

I can agree with a lot of what you and others say about religions. They can be awful and cause all kinds of turmoil... but they can also do great things for humanity. It's a mixed bag. I don't belong to any organized religion or adhere to any religious dogma. I think anything man-made is inherently flawed. I've had religious people call me an Atheist because I rejected their incarnation of God. It doesn't bother me but I don't consider myself an Atheist. I'm also not Agnostic... those people are even dumber than Atheists. At least the Atheist knows what he believes.

In conversing with you, I see a person who is somewhat lost in terms of connection to her spirituality and that concerns me. You are too much of a sweetheart to ignore and deny your spirit. You don't have to be religious to be spiritual. Your fear is that embracing your spirituality will lead you to religious beliefs which you don't agree with. So you are sort of like a spiritual anorexic. I can tell you, as someone who is not religious or trying to 'convert' you, that your life is much better and well-rounded when you are in touch with your spiritual self.

Yes ignorance is bliss you stupid mother fucker

 

[Boss]

You say "That's how DM and DE were discovered". Yet you claim that "physical science can't do is evaluate things outside of the confines of physics." Yet you admit that scientists have discovered it even though it's outside the confines of what they can measure. So how do you discover something that you can't tell is there? Call it spirituality?

Well, I thought that I explained that to you?

We know what gravitational forces are and we know what atomic weights are of physical matter. When we added up all the weight of all the atoms of physical matter in the universe and applied our calculation for gravitational force, the math didn't add up. It wasn't even in the ballpark. We weren't just off by a tiny amount, that could have been easily explainable... we were off by a LOT. In fact, all the material physical atoms of matter in the universe only accounted for 4% of the gravity present. The remaining enigmatic 96% was defined as dark energy and dark matter. We don't know what it is because we cannot observe it directly.

Once we discovered DE and DM, we began looking more closely at physical matter at the subatomic level and again, we were amazed to find things that physics cannot explain. It seems (we're not completely sure) that for every particle of matter there is a corresponding particle of anti-matter. When the opposing forces come together it creates a massive explosion of energy. (This is nuclear fission.) Even MORE fascinating is the inside of each atom and what is going on there... weird things! Electrons and protons popping into existence from nowhere, existing in two places at the same time, or not existing in any time or space... defying the hell out of everything we understand as physics.... but it's happening in every atom of every material physical thing. We find in quantum physics, a paradox known as "quantum entanglement" ...you can google that if you like. This is where two subatomic particles are connected with each other and affecting one effects the other. What is so fascinating is, this happens instantly across billions of light years. How can one particle 'communicate' instantly to it's entangled particle across billions of light years? Nothing travels faster than the speed of light according to Einstein, not even information. So how is this possible? Physics has no explanation at this time.

 

[Boss]

I find discussing the history of religion and theories on how it came to be (other than the religious people's theories of course - lol) much more interesting than arguing about whether or not there is actually a God or gods. I don't believe in religions, but I find it to be a fascinating topic. I find the fact that so many people believe in it to be fascinating too. I think of it almost like a form of "mass hysteria." Not to mention, "beliefs" are pounded into your head from the time you are a baby in a lot of cases, and you are told if you don't believe, this or that will happen, so it's very scary for us "nonbelievers" or "doubters" to actually come forward and say we are different and we don't believe. We know there are going to be people who "hate us" for feeling that way. Call us "demons", etc.

I can agree with a lot of what you and others say about religions. They can be awful and cause all kinds of turmoil... but they can also do great things for humanity. It's a mixed bag. I don't belong to any organized religion or adhere to any religious dogma. I think anything man-made is inherently flawed. I've had religious people call me an Atheist because I rejected their incarnation of God. It doesn't bother me but I don't consider myself an Atheist. I'm also not Agnostic... those people are even dumber than Atheists. At least the Atheist knows what he believes.

In conversing with you, I see a person who is somewhat lost in terms of connection to her spirituality and that concerns me. You are too much of a sweetheart to ignore and deny your spirit. You don't have to be religious to be spiritual. Your fear is that embracing your spirituality will lead you to religious beliefs which you don't agree with. So you are sort of like a spiritual anorexic. I can tell you, as someone who is not religious or trying to 'convert' you, that your life is much better and well-rounded when you are in touch with your spiritual self.

Yes ignorance is bliss you stupid mother fucker

Not much of a scientific argument there, silly boob. Wanna try again?

 

[ChrisL]

Where's your proof that spirituality isn't just made up?

Because it defies logic as well as nature and biology and because we find no evidence of when it could have been made up. It's irrational and illogical to think that humans have the ability to imagine something that isn't real as an explanation for something real. IF that were true, you would simply need to just imagine God is real and all your questions would be instantly answered forever. Obviously, you can't make yourself do that no matter how hard you try. So the premise that man "made up" something to explain what was happening or console fears or comfort them in death, or whatever crazy shit you've dreamed up with no evidence, is simply not logical or rational.

Study of biology is science... we have studied millions of life forms and we've never seen anything that retained fundamental attributes for no apparent reason or purpose... doesn't happen in nature. If human spiritual belief were superficial and unimportant they would not exist as a fundamental attribute in the species. This defies even the most simplistic notions of Darwinian theory as well as biology. And finally, every human civilization we've ever unearthed, back to the very oldest ones we've ever found, show signs of human spirituality. There simply is no evidence to show WHEN humans "invented" it because it has apparently always been a part of our history.

So there you have it in two paragraphs.

Spirituality is not a fundamental attribute of humans. I don't believe that a god or spirituality has been proven, and so do a lot of other people, as well as people who outright reject the notion of god...

But it certainly IS a fundamental attribute of humans. Your beliefs are irrelevant to the debate. Science shows that human spiritual beliefs have followed mankind for all his civilized existence as a species. To this day, it is prevalent in about 95% of the human race in some form. Only about 5% profess Nihilistic views which is the belief in nothing greater than self.

I don't believe God has been proven either. No one has claimed that. I am certainly not claiming I can prove God exists. But there is no question that human spirituality exists and has always existed in civilized man. Not only is it a fundamental attribute, it is our most defining attribute as a species.

"Your beliefs are irrelevant to the debate". So according to you, only your beliefs count in this discussion? Want to try telling me something I don't know?

"Not only is it a fundamental attribute, it is our most defining attribute as a species." You have not proven this yet. This is how you explained it "But it certainly IS a fundamental attribute of humans". You have nothing. Go back to bed.

No... Beliefs are FAITH. Let's remember our definitions! So if we are discussing science, we aren't discussing our faith or beliefs. You telling me something is not so because you don't believe it's so, isn't a scientific argument, it is a profession of faith... and the same goes for me.

We can get into the dictionary definitions of what is "fundamental" and what is an "attribute" if you like, but you're going to lose again. I gave you the scientific evidence of human history proven by archaeological and paleontological discovery to support my statement and you've presenting nothing to contradict that other than your faith.

Yes, go back to bed and try to grow some more brain cells. Come back when you're ready to be educated some more on science and faith.

Lol. I'm sorry, but I really haven't seen you prove anything. You make a lot of assumptions and you jump to a lot of conclusions, though.

 

[BreezeWood]

[Spirituality] - Not only is it a fundamental attribute, it is our most defining attribute as a species.

.

what is degenerative about boss as the pseudo religious, their exclusivity for the Almighty.

.

 

[Boss]

Lol. I'm sorry, but I really haven't seen you prove anything. You make a lot of assumptions and you jump to a lot of conclusions, though.

Well Chris, "PROOF" is also a funny and fickle thing... you see, proof is what you accept as proof.

Case in point, most rational people know that O.J. killed his wife and lover because the DNA evidence was clear proof that he did it... but the jury didn't accept the proof. So we see, proof is in the eye of the beholder, so to speak.

I haven't made any assumptions. That seems to be the default position taken by those who maintain that humans somehow imagined something into existence to explain the unexplained. You have no scientific evidence to support that hypothesis and I've shown you how it's completely illogical.

 

[ChrisL]

Lol. I'm sorry, but I really haven't seen you prove anything. You make a lot of assumptions and you jump to a lot of conclusions, though.

Well Chris, "PROOF" is also a funny and fickle thing... you see, proof is what you accept as proof.

Case in point, most rational people know that O.J. killed his wife and lover because the DNA evidence was clear proof that he did it... but the jury didn't accept the proof. So we see, proof is in the eye of the beholder, so to speak.

I haven't made any assumptions. That seems to be the default position taken by those who maintain that humans somehow imagined something into existence to explain the unexplained. You have no scientific evidence to support that hypothesis and I've shown you how it's completely illogical.

I disagree with your entire premise. I have actually shown you evidence of where humans have indeed imagined things into "existence" at least in their OWN minds.

 

[Boss]

[Spirituality] - Not only is it a fundamental attribute, it is our most defining attribute as a species.

.

what is degenerative about boss as the pseudo religious, their exclusivity for the Almighty.

.

I absolutely adore the water lilies, Breeze! Such a beautiful creation comprised of trillions of cells containing DNA with the digital coding to define exactly what it is, what it will always be, and what it will reproduce if it reproduces. The water-lily has a special place in Tamil poetics, where it is considered symbolic of the grief of separation; it is considered to evoke imagery of the sunset, the seashore and the shark.

Very spiritually-connected species indeed! Well done!

 

[Boss]

Lol. I'm sorry, but I really haven't seen you prove anything. You make a lot of assumptions and you jump to a lot of conclusions, though.

Well Chris, "PROOF" is also a funny and fickle thing... you see, proof is what you accept as proof.

Case in point, most rational people know that O.J. killed his wife and lover because the DNA evidence was clear proof that he did it... but the jury didn't accept the proof. So we see, proof is in the eye of the beholder, so to speak.

I haven't made any assumptions. That seems to be the default position taken by those who maintain that humans somehow imagined something into existence to explain the unexplained. You have no scientific evidence to support that hypothesis and I've shown you how it's completely illogical.

I disagree with your entire premise. I have actually shown you evidence of where humans have indeed imagined things into "existence" at least in their OWN minds.

Except that you haven't. None of your examples are of people who are imagining something, they honestly have a spiritual belief in something. That you don't share their belief doesn't mean they don't believe it.

 

[ChrisL]

Lol. I'm sorry, but I really haven't seen you prove anything. You make a lot of assumptions and you jump to a lot of conclusions, though.

Well Chris, "PROOF" is also a funny and fickle thing... you see, proof is what you accept as proof.

Case in point, most rational people know that O.J. killed his wife and lover because the DNA evidence was clear proof that he did it... but the jury didn't accept the proof. So we see, proof is in the eye of the beholder, so to speak.

I haven't made any assumptions. That seems to be the default position taken by those who maintain that humans somehow imagined something into existence to explain the unexplained. You have no scientific evidence to support that hypothesis and I've shown you how it's completely illogical.

I disagree with your entire premise. I have actually shown you evidence of where humans have indeed imagined things into "existence" at least in their OWN minds.

Except that you haven't. None of your examples are of people who are imagining something, they honestly have a spiritual belief in something. That you don't share their belief doesn't mean they don't believe it.

Oh yes they do. The belief in vampires, sea monsters and all kinds of things.

 

[ChrisL]

Lol. I'm sorry, but I really haven't seen you prove anything. You make a lot of assumptions and you jump to a lot of conclusions, though.

Well Chris, "PROOF" is also a funny and fickle thing... you see, proof is what you accept as proof.

Case in point, most rational people know that O.J. killed his wife and lover because the DNA evidence was clear proof that he did it... but the jury didn't accept the proof. So we see, proof is in the eye of the beholder, so to speak.

I haven't made any assumptions. That seems to be the default position taken by those who maintain that humans somehow imagined something into existence to explain the unexplained. You have no scientific evidence to support that hypothesis and I've shown you how it's completely illogical.

I disagree with your entire premise. I have actually shown you evidence of where humans have indeed imagined things into "existence" at least in their OWN minds.

Except that you haven't. None of your examples are of people who are imagining something, they honestly have a spiritual belief in something. That you don't share their belief doesn't mean they don't believe it.

Vampire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Early folk belief in vampires has sometimes been ascribed to the ignorance of the body's process of decomposition after death and how people in pre-industrial societies tried to rationalise this, creating the figure of the vampire to explain the mysteries of death. Porphyria was also linked with legends of vampirism in 1985 and received much media exposure, but has since been largely discredited.

 

[Boss]

Lol. I'm sorry, but I really haven't seen you prove anything. You make a lot of assumptions and you jump to a lot of conclusions, though.

Well Chris, "PROOF" is also a funny and fickle thing... you see, proof is what you accept as proof.

Case in point, most rational people know that O.J. killed his wife and lover because the DNA evidence was clear proof that he did it... but the jury didn't accept the proof. So we see, proof is in the eye of the beholder, so to speak.

I haven't made any assumptions. That seems to be the default position taken by those who maintain that humans somehow imagined something into existence to explain the unexplained. You have no scientific evidence to support that hypothesis and I've shown you how it's completely illogical.

I disagree with your entire premise. I have actually shown you evidence of where humans have indeed imagined things into "existence" at least in their OWN minds.

Except that you haven't. None of your examples are of people who are imagining something, they honestly have a spiritual belief in something. That you don't share their belief doesn't mean they don't believe it.

Oh yes they do. The belief in vampires, sea monsters and all kinds of things.

But they don't think they are imaginary.

 

[ChrisL]

Lol. I'm sorry, but I really haven't seen you prove anything. You make a lot of assumptions and you jump to a lot of conclusions, though.

Well Chris, "PROOF" is also a funny and fickle thing... you see, proof is what you accept as proof.

Case in point, most rational people know that O.J. killed his wife and lover because the DNA evidence was clear proof that he did it... but the jury didn't accept the proof. So we see, proof is in the eye of the beholder, so to speak.

I haven't made any assumptions. That seems to be the default position taken by those who maintain that humans somehow imagined something into existence to explain the unexplained. You have no scientific evidence to support that hypothesis and I've shown you how it's completely illogical.

I disagree with your entire premise. I have actually shown you evidence of where humans have indeed imagined things into "existence" at least in their OWN minds.

Except that you haven't. None of your examples are of people who are imagining something, they honestly have a spiritual belief in something. That you don't share their belief doesn't mean they don't believe it.

Oh yes they do. The belief in vampires, sea monsters and all kinds of things.

But they don't think they are imaginary.

Whaaaaat? Lol.