Why I don't believe in God

[ChrisL]

Well of course. I never have said that anything spiritually believed could be proven. If that were possible, we wouldn't be having this conversation, would we? The point is, they all believed in something they though was very real and not made up.

PROOF is subjective. Mudder laughs, but that's just a fact. There are people who believe in PROOF that aliens are walking among us... that Elvis is still alive... that Lee Harvey Oswald didn't shoot Kennedy... that we never landed on the moon.... that OJ was innocent... on and on. Proof is merely something you've accepted some kind of evidence to support your belief in.

"I never have said that anything spiritually believed could be proven" - Bossy
Bossy said: "Human spirituality is not simply my belief, it is a well-documented fact of human history. YOU can believe whatever YOU want... spirituality in humans is a fact." and "I have presented indisputable physical evidence to show that humans have always been spiritual".

Bossy, you've managed to confuse yourself... again.

You show again that you are apparently ignorant of context. "Spiritually believed" is not "spiritual" in the sentence you quoted. You're dropping "-ly believed" and making a new sentence out of context, then claiming I contradict that.

Follow me slowly. Corky, I'll try not to lose you... Specific beliefs which come through human spirituality cannot be proven or disproved. I've never claimed they could. HOWEVER, human spirituality (the act of humans being spiritually connected) is very much a real thing that cannot be denied and is indisputable throughout human history.

For SOME people. Not for everyone. Sorry.

 

[Boss]

Fair enough. Like I said, I suppose not everybody believes that "spirituality" is related to a god. We are emotion-driven animals. Yes, we can easily convince ourselves and others that something is "real" when it isn't, as has been proven throughout history time and time again with all kinds of beliefs. So . . . I really don't know what it is you are arguing about, unless you are saying that spirituality has to come from a believe in a god or gods?

And again, other life forms are emotional. Spirituality is more than just our emotions or we'd see it happening in other life forms. Maybe this happens and we simply don't see it? If so, I would say that's an even stronger compelling argument that something must exist beyond the physical. Whether something exists or doesn't exist beyond the physical, humans believe it does and always have.

From a purely scientific standpoint, it is an interesting paradox that physics can't explain the origin of the universe. A physical material universe cannot create itself. On the largest cosmic scale, physics can't explain what is happening inside a black hole. The rules of physics break down at the event horizon. Finally, at the smallest level of the physical material universe, inside the atom, physics cannot explain what is happening. Electrons and photons can exist in two places at the same time or nowhere at all. Photons of light can be waves or particles depending on whether they are observed. Not only that, they can also change what they were if we try and trick them by observing covertly.

This raised the question for Niels Bohr and Albert Einstein... What is real? This is where Einstein's famous quote, "I don't believe God rolls the dice." comes from. He believed the moon is still there, even if we're not looking at it. The two men argued for years over this and Bohr eventually won the argument. Nothing is there until it is observed. After their famous Copenhagen conference, Einstein was forced to recant his "spooky action at a distance" claim and admit "reality is an illusion, albeit a persistent one."

A spiritual nature exists and humans connect with it.

 

[ChrisL]

Fair enough. Like I said, I suppose not everybody believes that "spirituality" is related to a god. We are emotion-driven animals. Yes, we can easily convince ourselves and others that something is "real" when it isn't, as has been proven throughout history time and time again with all kinds of beliefs. So . . . I really don't know what it is you are arguing about, unless you are saying that spirituality has to come from a believe in a god or gods?

And again, other life forms are emotional. Spirituality is more than just our emotions or we'd see it happening in other life forms. Maybe this happens and we simply don't see it? If so, I would say that's an even stronger compelling argument that something must exist beyond the physical. Whether something exists or doesn't exist beyond the physical, humans believe it does and always have.

From a purely scientific standpoint, it is an interesting paradox that physics can't explain the origin of the universe. A physical material universe cannot create itself. On the largest cosmic scale, physics can't explain what is happening inside a black hole. The rules of physics break down at the event horizon. Finally, at the smallest level of the physical material universe, inside the atom, physics cannot explain what is happening. Electrons and photons can exist in two places at the same time or nowhere at all. Photons of light can be waves or particles depending on whether they are observed. Not only that, they can also change what they were if we try and trick them by observing covertly.

This raised the question for Niels Bohr and Albert Einstein... What is real? This is where Einstein's famous quote, "I don't believe God rolls the dice." comes from. He believed the moon is still there, even if we're not looking at it. The two men argued for years over this and Bohr eventually won the argument. Nothing is there until it is observed. After their famous Copenhagen conference, Einstein was forced to recant his "spooky action at a distance" claim and admit "reality is an illusion, albeit a persistent one."

A spiritual nature exists and humans connect with it.

Um no, you don't see that in other animals because they just aren't intelligent enough to have any kind of beliefs. Lol. Stop being silly, okay? Some humans need spirituality to be happy. Others do not.

 

[ChrisL]

Fair enough. Like I said, I suppose not everybody believes that "spirituality" is related to a god. We are emotion-driven animals. Yes, we can easily convince ourselves and others that something is "real" when it isn't, as has been proven throughout history time and time again with all kinds of beliefs. So . . . I really don't know what it is you are arguing about, unless you are saying that spirituality has to come from a believe in a god or gods?

And again, other life forms are emotional. Spirituality is more than just our emotions or we'd see it happening in other life forms. Maybe this happens and we simply don't see it? If so, I would say that's an even stronger compelling argument that something must exist beyond the physical. Whether something exists or doesn't exist beyond the physical, humans believe it does and always have.

From a purely scientific standpoint, it is an interesting paradox that physics can't explain the origin of the universe. A physical material universe cannot create itself. On the largest cosmic scale, physics can't explain what is happening inside a black hole. The rules of physics break down at the event horizon. Finally, at the smallest level of the physical material universe, inside the atom, physics cannot explain what is happening. Electrons and photons can exist in two places at the same time or nowhere at all. Photons of light can be waves or particles depending on whether they are observed. Not only that, they can also change what they were if we try and trick them by observing covertly.

This raised the question for Niels Bohr and Albert Einstein... What is real? This is where Einstein's famous quote, "I don't believe God rolls the dice." comes from. He believed the moon is still there, even if we're not looking at it. The two men argued for years over this and Bohr eventually won the argument. Nothing is there until it is observed. After their famous Copenhagen conference, Einstein was forced to recant his "spooky action at a distance" claim and admit "reality is an illusion, albeit a persistent one."

A spiritual nature exists and humans connect with it.

Now, the thread is about why you do NOT believe in god. I suggest you tackle that question since you are here. Why don't you believe in god?

 

[Boss]

For SOME people. Not for everyone. Sorry.

No Chris, everyone has the capacity to spiritually connect with something greater than self. But... just as everyone also has the capacity to climb Mt. Everest, not everyone will. That fact that you do not connect spiritually doesn't mean you can't.

 

[Boss]

Fair enough. Like I said, I suppose not everybody believes that "spirituality" is related to a god. We are emotion-driven animals. Yes, we can easily convince ourselves and others that something is "real" when it isn't, as has been proven throughout history time and time again with all kinds of beliefs. So . . . I really don't know what it is you are arguing about, unless you are saying that spirituality has to come from a believe in a god or gods?

And again, other life forms are emotional. Spirituality is more than just our emotions or we'd see it happening in other life forms. Maybe this happens and we simply don't see it? If so, I would say that's an even stronger compelling argument that something must exist beyond the physical. Whether something exists or doesn't exist beyond the physical, humans believe it does and always have.

From a purely scientific standpoint, it is an interesting paradox that physics can't explain the origin of the universe. A physical material universe cannot create itself. On the largest cosmic scale, physics can't explain what is happening inside a black hole. The rules of physics break down at the event horizon. Finally, at the smallest level of the physical material universe, inside the atom, physics cannot explain what is happening. Electrons and photons can exist in two places at the same time or nowhere at all. Photons of light can be waves or particles depending on whether they are observed. Not only that, they can also change what they were if we try and trick them by observing covertly.

This raised the question for Niels Bohr and Albert Einstein... What is real? This is where Einstein's famous quote, "I don't believe God rolls the dice." comes from. He believed the moon is still there, even if we're not looking at it. The two men argued for years over this and Bohr eventually won the argument. Nothing is there until it is observed. After their famous Copenhagen conference, Einstein was forced to recant his "spooky action at a distance" claim and admit "reality is an illusion, albeit a persistent one."

A spiritual nature exists and humans connect with it.

Um no, you don't see that in other animals because they just aren't intelligent enough to have any kind of beliefs. Lol. Stop being silly, okay? Some humans need spirituality to be happy. Others do not.

Oh this is great... So NOW... we're "intelligent enough" to invent something not real to explain the unexplained?

 

[BreezeWood]

.

- is very much a real thing that cannot be denied and is indisputable throughout human history.

that expression you define is simply a uniqueness confined to humanity as the same in conception to all living creatures, whether your deranged secular disdain approves of it or not.

Spirituality = Being

.

 

[Boss]

Fair enough. Like I said, I suppose not everybody believes that "spirituality" is related to a god. We are emotion-driven animals. Yes, we can easily convince ourselves and others that something is "real" when it isn't, as has been proven throughout history time and time again with all kinds of beliefs. So . . . I really don't know what it is you are arguing about, unless you are saying that spirituality has to come from a believe in a god or gods?

And again, other life forms are emotional. Spirituality is more than just our emotions or we'd see it happening in other life forms. Maybe this happens and we simply don't see it? If so, I would say that's an even stronger compelling argument that something must exist beyond the physical. Whether something exists or doesn't exist beyond the physical, humans believe it does and always have.

From a purely scientific standpoint, it is an interesting paradox that physics can't explain the origin of the universe. A physical material universe cannot create itself. On the largest cosmic scale, physics can't explain what is happening inside a black hole. The rules of physics break down at the event horizon. Finally, at the smallest level of the physical material universe, inside the atom, physics cannot explain what is happening. Electrons and photons can exist in two places at the same time or nowhere at all. Photons of light can be waves or particles depending on whether they are observed. Not only that, they can also change what they were if we try and trick them by observing covertly.

This raised the question for Niels Bohr and Albert Einstein... What is real? This is where Einstein's famous quote, "I don't believe God rolls the dice." comes from. He believed the moon is still there, even if we're not looking at it. The two men argued for years over this and Bohr eventually won the argument. Nothing is there until it is observed. After their famous Copenhagen conference, Einstein was forced to recant his "spooky action at a distance" claim and admit "reality is an illusion, albeit a persistent one."

A spiritual nature exists and humans connect with it.

Now, the thread is about why you do NOT believe in god. I suggest you tackle that question since you are here. Why don't you believe in god?

Well... I don't believe in man-made religious incarnations of God because I believe all humans are flawed and imperfect. Even IF such a God exists, it is beyond anything our human minds could ever comprehend. So the idea of a "Godhead" figure, I reject. What I reference as "God" is Spiritual Nature. This is more than something I simply "have faith" in, I experience it and know it. I suspect others do as well, which is why they formed religions to explain it.

 

[ChrisL]

Fair enough. Like I said, I suppose not everybody believes that "spirituality" is related to a god. We are emotion-driven animals. Yes, we can easily convince ourselves and others that something is "real" when it isn't, as has been proven throughout history time and time again with all kinds of beliefs. So . . . I really don't know what it is you are arguing about, unless you are saying that spirituality has to come from a believe in a god or gods?

And again, other life forms are emotional. Spirituality is more than just our emotions or we'd see it happening in other life forms. Maybe this happens and we simply don't see it? If so, I would say that's an even stronger compelling argument that something must exist beyond the physical. Whether something exists or doesn't exist beyond the physical, humans believe it does and always have.

From a purely scientific standpoint, it is an interesting paradox that physics can't explain the origin of the universe. A physical material universe cannot create itself. On the largest cosmic scale, physics can't explain what is happening inside a black hole. The rules of physics break down at the event horizon. Finally, at the smallest level of the physical material universe, inside the atom, physics cannot explain what is happening. Electrons and photons can exist in two places at the same time or nowhere at all. Photons of light can be waves or particles depending on whether they are observed. Not only that, they can also change what they were if we try and trick them by observing covertly.

This raised the question for Niels Bohr and Albert Einstein... What is real? This is where Einstein's famous quote, "I don't believe God rolls the dice." comes from. He believed the moon is still there, even if we're not looking at it. The two men argued for years over this and Bohr eventually won the argument. Nothing is there until it is observed. After their famous Copenhagen conference, Einstein was forced to recant his "spooky action at a distance" claim and admit "reality is an illusion, albeit a persistent one."

A spiritual nature exists and humans connect with it.

Um no, you don't see that in other animals because they just aren't intelligent enough to have any kind of beliefs. Lol. Stop being silly, okay? Some humans need spirituality to be happy. Others do not.

Oh this is great... So NOW... we're "intelligent enough" to invent something not real to explain the unexplained?

Yes, we have done this throughout history as has been demonstrated to you.

 

[ChrisL]

Fair enough. Like I said, I suppose not everybody believes that "spirituality" is related to a god. We are emotion-driven animals. Yes, we can easily convince ourselves and others that something is "real" when it isn't, as has been proven throughout history time and time again with all kinds of beliefs. So . . . I really don't know what it is you are arguing about, unless you are saying that spirituality has to come from a believe in a god or gods?

And again, other life forms are emotional. Spirituality is more than just our emotions or we'd see it happening in other life forms. Maybe this happens and we simply don't see it? If so, I would say that's an even stronger compelling argument that something must exist beyond the physical. Whether something exists or doesn't exist beyond the physical, humans believe it does and always have.

From a purely scientific standpoint, it is an interesting paradox that physics can't explain the origin of the universe. A physical material universe cannot create itself. On the largest cosmic scale, physics can't explain what is happening inside a black hole. The rules of physics break down at the event horizon. Finally, at the smallest level of the physical material universe, inside the atom, physics cannot explain what is happening. Electrons and photons can exist in two places at the same time or nowhere at all. Photons of light can be waves or particles depending on whether they are observed. Not only that, they can also change what they were if we try and trick them by observing covertly.

This raised the question for Niels Bohr and Albert Einstein... What is real? This is where Einstein's famous quote, "I don't believe God rolls the dice." comes from. He believed the moon is still there, even if we're not looking at it. The two men argued for years over this and Bohr eventually won the argument. Nothing is there until it is observed. After their famous Copenhagen conference, Einstein was forced to recant his "spooky action at a distance" claim and admit "reality is an illusion, albeit a persistent one."

A spiritual nature exists and humans connect with it.

Um no, you don't see that in other animals because they just aren't intelligent enough to have any kind of beliefs. Lol. Stop being silly, okay? Some humans need spirituality to be happy. Others do not.

Oh this is great... So NOW... we're "intelligent enough" to invent something not real to explain the unexplained?

Have you ever heard of "fiction" before?

 

[ChrisL]

Fair enough. Like I said, I suppose not everybody believes that "spirituality" is related to a god. We are emotion-driven animals. Yes, we can easily convince ourselves and others that something is "real" when it isn't, as has been proven throughout history time and time again with all kinds of beliefs. So . . . I really don't know what it is you are arguing about, unless you are saying that spirituality has to come from a believe in a god or gods?

And again, other life forms are emotional. Spirituality is more than just our emotions or we'd see it happening in other life forms. Maybe this happens and we simply don't see it? If so, I would say that's an even stronger compelling argument that something must exist beyond the physical. Whether something exists or doesn't exist beyond the physical, humans believe it does and always have.

From a purely scientific standpoint, it is an interesting paradox that physics can't explain the origin of the universe. A physical material universe cannot create itself. On the largest cosmic scale, physics can't explain what is happening inside a black hole. The rules of physics break down at the event horizon. Finally, at the smallest level of the physical material universe, inside the atom, physics cannot explain what is happening. Electrons and photons can exist in two places at the same time or nowhere at all. Photons of light can be waves or particles depending on whether they are observed. Not only that, they can also change what they were if we try and trick them by observing covertly.

This raised the question for Niels Bohr and Albert Einstein... What is real? This is where Einstein's famous quote, "I don't believe God rolls the dice." comes from. He believed the moon is still there, even if we're not looking at it. The two men argued for years over this and Bohr eventually won the argument. Nothing is there until it is observed. After their famous Copenhagen conference, Einstein was forced to recant his "spooky action at a distance" claim and admit "reality is an illusion, albeit a persistent one."

A spiritual nature exists and humans connect with it.

Now, the thread is about why you do NOT believe in god. I suggest you tackle that question since you are here. Why don't you believe in god?

Well... I don't believe in man-made religious incarnations of God because I believe all humans are flawed and imperfect. Even IF such a God exists, it is beyond anything our human minds could ever comprehend. So the idea of a "Godhead" figure, I reject. What I reference as "God" is Spiritual Nature. This is more than something I simply "have faith" in, I experience it and know it. I suspect others do as well, which is why they formed religions to explain it.

Well then what is there to have "faith" in about spirituality? What exactly is it that you experience that you consider "spiritual?"

 

[Boss]

Yes, we have done this throughout history as has been demonstrated to you.

Well, no... you've yet to demonstrate how you can make up something and it has explanatory power. In every example you've ever presented, the person must first BELIEVE before anything is explained by it.

 

[ChrisL]

Yes, we have done this throughout history as has been demonstrated to you.

Well, no... you've yet to demonstrate how you can make up something and it has explanatory power. In every example you've ever presented, the person must first BELIEVE before anything is explained by it.

All the examples I've given you. All religions are made up. You even said so yourself!

 

[Boss]

Fair enough. Like I said, I suppose not everybody believes that "spirituality" is related to a god. We are emotion-driven animals. Yes, we can easily convince ourselves and others that something is "real" when it isn't, as has been proven throughout history time and time again with all kinds of beliefs. So . . . I really don't know what it is you are arguing about, unless you are saying that spirituality has to come from a believe in a god or gods?

And again, other life forms are emotional. Spirituality is more than just our emotions or we'd see it happening in other life forms. Maybe this happens and we simply don't see it? If so, I would say that's an even stronger compelling argument that something must exist beyond the physical. Whether something exists or doesn't exist beyond the physical, humans believe it does and always have.

From a purely scientific standpoint, it is an interesting paradox that physics can't explain the origin of the universe. A physical material universe cannot create itself. On the largest cosmic scale, physics can't explain what is happening inside a black hole. The rules of physics break down at the event horizon. Finally, at the smallest level of the physical material universe, inside the atom, physics cannot explain what is happening. Electrons and photons can exist in two places at the same time or nowhere at all. Photons of light can be waves or particles depending on whether they are observed. Not only that, they can also change what they were if we try and trick them by observing covertly.

This raised the question for Niels Bohr and Albert Einstein... What is real? This is where Einstein's famous quote, "I don't believe God rolls the dice." comes from. He believed the moon is still there, even if we're not looking at it. The two men argued for years over this and Bohr eventually won the argument. Nothing is there until it is observed. After their famous Copenhagen conference, Einstein was forced to recant his "spooky action at a distance" claim and admit "reality is an illusion, albeit a persistent one."

A spiritual nature exists and humans connect with it.

Um no, you don't see that in other animals because they just aren't intelligent enough to have any kind of beliefs. Lol. Stop being silly, okay? Some humans need spirituality to be happy. Others do not.

Oh this is great... So NOW... we're "intelligent enough" to invent something not real to explain the unexplained?

Have you ever heard of "fiction" before?

But people don't go to the gallows, get fed to the lions, have their entire family killed or their civilizations wiped out over fiction. That doesn't seem to be a very smart creature. In fact, Darwin would say that such a species would endanger itself to extinction by retaining such a non-beneficial attribute.

 

[ChrisL]

Yes, we have done this throughout history as has been demonstrated to you.

Well, no... you've yet to demonstrate how you can make up something and it has explanatory power. In every example you've ever presented, the person must first BELIEVE before anything is explained by it.

No, you do not, as I demonstrated with the vampire myth. Then we have numerous cults and other such things.

 

[ChrisL]

Fair enough. Like I said, I suppose not everybody believes that "spirituality" is related to a god. We are emotion-driven animals. Yes, we can easily convince ourselves and others that something is "real" when it isn't, as has been proven throughout history time and time again with all kinds of beliefs. So . . . I really don't know what it is you are arguing about, unless you are saying that spirituality has to come from a believe in a god or gods?

And again, other life forms are emotional. Spirituality is more than just our emotions or we'd see it happening in other life forms. Maybe this happens and we simply don't see it? If so, I would say that's an even stronger compelling argument that something must exist beyond the physical. Whether something exists or doesn't exist beyond the physical, humans believe it does and always have.

From a purely scientific standpoint, it is an interesting paradox that physics can't explain the origin of the universe. A physical material universe cannot create itself. On the largest cosmic scale, physics can't explain what is happening inside a black hole. The rules of physics break down at the event horizon. Finally, at the smallest level of the physical material universe, inside the atom, physics cannot explain what is happening. Electrons and photons can exist in two places at the same time or nowhere at all. Photons of light can be waves or particles depending on whether they are observed. Not only that, they can also change what they were if we try and trick them by observing covertly.

This raised the question for Niels Bohr and Albert Einstein... What is real? This is where Einstein's famous quote, "I don't believe God rolls the dice." comes from. He believed the moon is still there, even if we're not looking at it. The two men argued for years over this and Bohr eventually won the argument. Nothing is there until it is observed. After their famous Copenhagen conference, Einstein was forced to recant his "spooky action at a distance" claim and admit "reality is an illusion, albeit a persistent one."

A spiritual nature exists and humans connect with it.

Um no, you don't see that in other animals because they just aren't intelligent enough to have any kind of beliefs. Lol. Stop being silly, okay? Some humans need spirituality to be happy. Others do not.

Oh this is great... So NOW... we're "intelligent enough" to invent something not real to explain the unexplained?

Have you ever heard of "fiction" before?

But people don't go to the gallows, get fed to the lions, have their entire family killed or their civilizations wiped out over fiction. That doesn't seem to be a very smart creature. In fact, Darwin would say that such a species would endanger itself to extinction by retaining such a non-beneficial attribute.

Sure they do. They even commit suicide, murder people and commit genocide, among other things.

 

[Boss]

Yes, we have done this throughout history as has been demonstrated to you.

Well, no... you've yet to demonstrate how you can make up something and it has explanatory power. In every example you've ever presented, the person must first BELIEVE before anything is explained by it.

All the examples I've given you. All religions are made up. You even said so yourself!

Yes, the RELIGION is made up... the spirituality which cause the religion, is not.

 

[Boss]

Yes, we have done this throughout history as has been demonstrated to you.

Well, no... you've yet to demonstrate how you can make up something and it has explanatory power. In every example you've ever presented, the person must first BELIEVE before anything is explained by it.

No, you do not, as I demonstrated with the vampire myth. Then we have numerous cults and other such things.

Again, things people BELIEVED. If they didn't first believe, there is no explanatory power.

 

[ChrisL]

Yes, we have done this throughout history as has been demonstrated to you.

Well, no... you've yet to demonstrate how you can make up something and it has explanatory power. In every example you've ever presented, the person must first BELIEVE before anything is explained by it.

All the examples I've given you. All religions are made up. You even said so yourself!

Yes, the RELIGION is made up... the spirituality which cause the religion, is not.

Lol. Says you. There are plenty of people who do not have this "spirituality" that you speak of.

 

[ChrisL]

Yes, we have done this throughout history as has been demonstrated to you.

Well, no... you've yet to demonstrate how you can make up something and it has explanatory power. In every example you've ever presented, the person must first BELIEVE before anything is explained by it.

No, you do not, as I demonstrated with the vampire myth. Then we have numerous cults and other such things.

Again, things people BELIEVED. If they didn't first believe, there is no explanatory power.

That's not true at all. People hear stories of Big Foot and other such things and then they believe them to be real and even sometimes hallucinate that they actually see these creatures.