Why I Don't Believe

[Book of Jeremiah]

We are spirits and as such we shall live eternally in one of two places. There is no avoiding it. This is the truth. We were created in the image of God. Look in your bible in Genesis 1:26 and you will find that you were made in the image of God! God is a Spirit. We who were created in His Image are spirits also.

God desires to be worshiped in spirit and in truth as Jesus told the woman at the well in John 4:24.

But because of Adam's sin in the garden - our spirits must be born again. Because we were born in the deadness of Adams sin and trespass against God Almighty.

So spiritually we are ( condemned to be separated from God ) until we receive eternal life in Christ by believing upon Jesus Christ shedding His blood at the cross for the pardon of our sins. This is why Jesus told Nicodemus, Marvel not that I say, Ye must be born again. John 3: 7 , It is written.

Yes, we were born of flesh but we must be born of the spirit too.

Jesus Christ is referred to as the son of man and the second Adam for this very reason. Jesus was sinless yet he was tempted just as man was tempted. Temptation is not a sin. Succumbing to temptation is a sin.

Jesus is the perfect lamb of God who never sinned! Jesus is perfect and did not sin on earth whereas Adam fell. Jesus did not fall. Jesus defeated Satan at the Cross and that is why Jesus said, "It is finished". Lucifer was defeated at the cross! He is a defeated foe.

Now going back to the matter of us being created in the image of God. We were made in Gods image. God said, Let US make man in OUR image and in OUR likeness. Who was God speaking to? His own Spirit and Word ( Jesus Christ ) - Genesis 1 and John 1 confirm Who was there In the Beginning. God the Word, God the Spirit, God the Father. From the Beginning. Genesis 1. Examine the Scriptures.

We were not made in the likeness of a monkey ( Darwin was painfully wrong with his "theory of evolution - we didn't evolved from monkeys) we were not made in the image of angels - we have no wings and we do not fly round - (other than when we travel in an airplane, helicopter,etc) we were made in the image of God.

We are a trichotomy. We are a spirit. We live in a body ( while here on earth but that body will return to the dust from whence it came one day - it is appointed for all men to die "Once" and then the judgment ) and we have a soul! Our soul is the seat of our emotions, our will, our natural mind. So we are created in the image of God- God is a spirit - The Word of God is Jesus Christ who is God according to John 1:1 and further on John 1:14. The Spirit of the LORD He is God - The Spirit of the LORD is God. God is a Spirit.

What am I saying? 1 x 1 x 1 = 1. You see? It is not 1 + 1 + 1 = 3. Not at all. It is 1 x 1 x 1 = 1.

You and I do not refer to ourselves as 3. We refer to ourselves as 1. David said, Bless the Lord O my soul and ALL that is within me Bless His Holy Name. Psalm 103: 1 - look at it.


We do not speak about our soul and body as other people. Paul spoke of his spirit, he spoke of his body, he spoke of his soul. Paul did not refer to himself as three people.

The reason God needs for every man, woman and child to believe on His Son Jesus Christ and be born again according to Romans 10: 8,9 and John 3:16 is very simple. Spirits do not die. They live eternally. We are spirits made in Gods' image. We will not die. We will leave this body on earth one day - we are appointed to live upon the earth once and then when we die comes the judgment. Heaven or hell. We are spirits and as such we will live eternally in one of these two places. See the John Bunyan video I posted on this thread the other day. See for yourselves.

Another fact:

The same angel that appeared to Daniel in Daniel 10:12 is still doing warfare in the heavenlies today. That ministering spirit is still in existence because spirits do not die. This is why Lucifer and the angels who fell with him will never die. This is why you and I, as spirits will never die. We must go someplace! Eternally!!! Where shall it be?

We know that Lucifer and his angels will be cast into hell when the time comes We know that those who follow him and refuse to repent of their sins and accept Jesus Christ's pardon at the cross for their sins will be in hell eternally.

We know that those who call upon the name of the LORD shall be saved and that if we believe in our Heart and confess with our mouth Jesus Christ as it is written in Romans 10: 8,9 that we shall be received into heaven by God Almighty when we one day leave this earth. This is the good news Gospel message.

Because you are a spirit? ( who lives in a body and has a soul ) You and your soul are going to live eternally in one of two places. Which shall it be? Heaven or hell? Choose life,People. Jesus Christ is the truth, the way and the Life. Choose life and life eternal in Jesus Christ today.

Sincerely, Jeremiah

You did not quote my entire response, Sealybobo. Here it is. Read it at your leisure.

 

[sealybobo]

We are spirits and as such we shall live eternally in one of two places. There is no avoiding it. This is the truth. We were created in the image of God. Look in your bible in Genesis 1:26 and you will find that you were made in the image of God! God is a Spirit. We who were created in His Image are spirits also.

God desires to be worshiped in spirit and in truth as Jesus told the woman at the well in John 4:24.

But because of Adam's sin in the garden - our spirits must be born again. Because we were born in the deadness of Adams sin and trespass against God Almighty.

So spiritually we are ( condemned to be separated from God ) until we receive eternal life in Christ by believing upon Jesus Christ shedding His blood at the cross for the pardon of our sins. This is why Jesus told Nicodemus, Marvel not that I say, Ye must be born again. John 3: 7 , It is written.

Yes, we were born of flesh but we must be born of the spirit too.

Jesus Christ is referred to as the son of man and the second Adam for this very reason. Jesus was sinless yet he was tempted just as man was tempted. Temptation is not a sin. Succumbing to temptation is a sin.

Jesus is the perfect lamb of God who never sinned! Jesus is perfect and did not sin on earth whereas Adam fell. Jesus did not fall. Jesus defeated Satan at the Cross and that is why Jesus said, "It is finished". Lucifer was defeated at the cross! He is a defeated foe.

Now going back to the matter of us being created in the image of God. We were made in Gods image. God said, Let US make man in OUR image and in OUR likeness. Who was God speaking to? His own Spirit and Word ( Jesus Christ ) - Genesis 1 and John 1 confirm Who was there In the Beginning. God the Word, God the Spirit, God the Father. From the Beginning. Genesis 1. Examine the Scriptures.

We were not made in the likeness of a monkey ( Darwin was painfully wrong with his "theory of evolution - we didn't evolved from monkeys) we were not made in the image of angels - we have no wings and we do not fly round - (other than when we travel in an airplane, helicopter,etc) we were made in the image of God.

We are a trichotomy. We are a spirit. We live in a body ( while here on earth but that body will return to the dust from whence it came one day - it is appointed for all men to die "Once" and then the judgment ) and we have a soul! Our soul is the seat of our emotions, our will, our natural mind. So we are created in the image of God- God is a spirit - The Word of God is Jesus Christ who is God according to John 1:1 and further on John 1:14. The Spirit of the LORD He is God - The Spirit of the LORD is God. God is a Spirit.

What am I saying? 1 x 1 x 1 = 1. You see? It is not 1 + 1 + 1 = 3. Not at all. It is 1 x 1 x 1 = 1.

You and I do not refer to ourselves as 3. We refer to ourselves as 1. David said, Bless the Lord O my soul and ALL that is within me Bless His Holy Name. Psalm 103: 1 - look at it.


We do not speak about our soul and body as other people. Paul spoke of his spirit, he spoke of his body, he spoke of his soul. Paul did not refer to himself as three people.

The reason God needs for every man, woman and child to believe on His Son Jesus Christ and be born again according to Romans 10: 8,9 and John 3:16 is very simple. Spirits do not die. They live eternally. We are spirits made in Gods' image. We will not die. We will leave this body on earth one day - we are appointed to live upon the earth once and then when we die comes the judgment. Heaven or hell. We are spirits and as such we will live eternally in one of these two places. See the John Bunyan video I posted on this thread the other day. See for yourselves.

Another fact:

The same angel that appeared to Daniel in Daniel 10:12 is still doing warfare in the heavenlies today. That ministering spirit is still in existence because spirits do not die. This is why Lucifer and the angels who fell with him will never die. This is why you and I, as spirits will never die. We must go someplace! Eternally!!! Where shall it be?

We know that Lucifer and his angels will be cast into hell when the time comes We know that those who follow him and refuse to repent of their sins and accept Jesus Christ's pardon at the cross for their sins will be in hell eternally.

We know that those who call upon the name of the LORD shall be saved and that if we believe in our Heart and confess with our mouth Jesus Christ as it is written in Romans 10: 8,9 that we shall be received into heaven by God Almighty when we one day leave this earth. This is the good news Gospel message.

Because you are a spirit? ( who lives in a body and has a soul ) You and your soul are going to live eternally in one of two places. Which shall it be? Heaven or hell? Choose life,People. Jesus Christ is the truth, the way and the Life. Choose life and life eternal in Jesus Christ today.

Sincerely, Jeremiah

You did not quote my entire response, Sealybobo. Here it is. Read it at your leisure.

The whole believing upon Jesus Christ shedding His blood at the cross for the pardon of our sins story is stupid sorry.

Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.

 

[PratchettFan]

I don't claim only my version is possible I just claim their version is not probable and unbelievable. Boss could be completely right. His concepts could be right! I don't think they are, but they could be. He doesn't make any claims of knowing. No god ever spoke to him. But jews, muslims and christians say god talked to them and miracles were performed. Do you believe that? I don't. And I think a society that does believe the unbelievable can't be all that smart. Do you?

And I am an agnostic atheist. I don't know what's on the other side of black holes. Do you? I just see no evidence of a god.

You see no evidence..... period. You just told someone there is no god who cares and you have no evidence.... period.

You claim their version is not probable.... based upon what evidence? You say it is unbelievable..... that clearly ignores reality. Millions of people believe it. You say a society that believes the unbelievable can't be smart. What about people who believe what is objectively untrue? That is what you are doing.

Once again, if the true definition of an Atheist is one who lacks god beliefs, then I have yet to meet a single Atheist.

IMO, there is absolutely no difference between saying "if you don't believe what I believe you are going to hell" and "if you don't believe what I believe you are stupid." Both positions show an inability to differentiate between belief and knowledge.

The validity of a claim, such as the existence of god, is not governed by the intelligence of the minds which hold it. Evidence and reason are the deciding factors.

See why it's hard to debate you theists? Do you believe people lived to be 800 years old back in the day? Do you believe snakes could talk? Do you believe the Noah flood story happened? If you do you are a fool and if you don't but still believe in god, why?

Many christians know the Noah and Adam and Eve stories are just stories but then they believe literally the jesus story.

In fact many christians can point out the stupidity of the mormon, muslim and jewish religions but they can't do it to their own religion. Virgin birth. Miracles. HA!

The reason you are having trouble debating is because I am holding you to the standard you claim to meet. If evidence and reason are the deciding factors, then present your evidence. Any position in the absence of evidence has no claim to reason.

Another reason you are having trouble is that you are still a Christian. I have told you multiple times that I am not a Christian and I have never been a Christian. Nor am I Jewish or Muslim. Yet you want me to explain how I can believe in God and not the Flood? I am giving you facts and you are ignoring them. Yet you want me to accept that yours is a rational position.

 

[sealybobo]

Another fact:

The same angel that appeared to Daniel in Daniel 10:12 is still doing warfare in the heavenlies today.

Sincerely, Jeremiah

You did not quote my entire response, Sealybobo. Here it is. Read it at your leisure.

How do you debate or discuss intelligently with someone who believes that to be a fact?

 

[sealybobo]

You see no evidence..... period. You just told someone there is no god who cares and you have no evidence.... period.

You claim their version is not probable.... based upon what evidence? You say it is unbelievable..... that clearly ignores reality. Millions of people believe it. You say a society that believes the unbelievable can't be smart. What about people who believe what is objectively untrue? That is what you are doing.

Once again, if the true definition of an Atheist is one who lacks god beliefs, then I have yet to meet a single Atheist.

IMO, there is absolutely no difference between saying "if you don't believe what I believe you are going to hell" and "if you don't believe what I believe you are stupid." Both positions show an inability to differentiate between belief and knowledge.

The validity of a claim, such as the existence of god, is not governed by the intelligence of the minds which hold it. Evidence and reason are the deciding factors.

See why it's hard to debate you theists? Do you believe people lived to be 800 years old back in the day? Do you believe snakes could talk? Do you believe the Noah flood story happened? If you do you are a fool and if you don't but still believe in god, why?

Many christians know the Noah and Adam and Eve stories are just stories but then they believe literally the jesus story.

In fact many christians can point out the stupidity of the mormon, muslim and jewish religions but they can't do it to their own religion. Virgin birth. Miracles. HA!

The reason you are having trouble debating is because I am holding you to the standard you claim to meet. If evidence and reason are the deciding factors, then present your evidence. Any position in the absence of evidence has no claim to reason.

Another reason you are having trouble is that you are still a Christian. I have told you multiple times that I am not a Christian and I have never been a Christian. Nor am I Jewish or Muslim. Yet you want me to explain how I can believe in God and not the Flood? I am giving you facts and you are ignoring them. Yet you want me to accept that yours is a rational position.

Ah, you are like boss. As long as you don't believe the organized religions, I'm cool with you clinging to your fairy tale. Harmless. Stupid, but harmless. Eventually you'll grow up or your kids or grandkids will grow out of it. Especially if you aren't using a fairy tale book as your source. All you can do is tell your kids what you think. At least you aren't telling them about a religion that is a lie as if it is fact.

I am not a Christian I'm a former christian who less than a year ago believed like you and Boss. I realized organized religions were bullshit but still had a personal relationship with god. I recently gave that up. No hard feelings. Just realized I was talking to myself.

And if you are saying that "Atheists should prove god doesn’t exist." The burden of proof is on the person or party asserting the claim; in this case, the theist.

 

[alang1216]

dude, ...its time for you to move into the 21st Century and stop measuring religion by what happened a thousand years ago.....

Ironic coming from someone who believes men who lived 2,000 years ago somehow knew more back then than we know today.

what an odd, (and foolish) assumption.....

So you don't believe God somehow communicated scipture to these men 2,000 years ago? My bad.

But if you do you'll have to admit they had the entire scipture, works lost to us today. What did God say in them that we don't know today?

 

[sealybobo]

You see no evidence..... period. You just told someone there is no god who cares and you have no evidence.... period.

You claim their version is not probable.... based upon what evidence? You say it is unbelievable..... that clearly ignores reality. Millions of people believe it. You say a society that believes the unbelievable can't be smart. What about people who believe what is objectively untrue? That is what you are doing.

Once again, if the true definition of an Atheist is one who lacks god beliefs, then I have yet to meet a single Atheist.

IMO, there is absolutely no difference between saying "if you don't believe what I believe you are going to hell" and "if you don't believe what I believe you are stupid." Both positions show an inability to differentiate between belief and knowledge.

The validity of a claim, such as the existence of god, is not governed by the intelligence of the minds which hold it. Evidence and reason are the deciding factors.

See why it's hard to debate you theists? Do you believe people lived to be 800 years old back in the day? Do you believe snakes could talk? Do you believe the Noah flood story happened? If you do you are a fool and if you don't but still believe in god, why?

Many christians know the Noah and Adam and Eve stories are just stories but then they believe literally the jesus story.

In fact many christians can point out the stupidity of the mormon, muslim and jewish religions but they can't do it to their own religion. Virgin birth. Miracles. HA!

The reason you are having trouble debating is because I am holding you to the standard you claim to meet. If evidence and reason are the deciding factors, then present your evidence. Any position in the absence of evidence has no claim to reason.

Another reason you are having trouble is that you are still a Christian. I have told you multiple times that I am not a Christian and I have never been a Christian. Nor am I Jewish or Muslim. Yet you want me to explain how I can believe in God and not the Flood? I am giving you facts and you are ignoring them. Yet you want me to accept that yours is a rational position.

Simply because you or the scientific community lack a complete understanding of something does not imply a theistic explanation carries any value. Even if there exists some topic on which science can never speak, any understanding could potentially evade us forever – supernatural or metaphysical speculation would not automatically be correct. Uncertainty is the most legitimate position.

Lightning, earthquakes, volcanos, disease, mental illness, speciation, planetary orbits and numerous other phenomena have been historically labelled ‘supernatural’ only to later be more thoroughly and elegantly explained by science. In fact, every mystery ever demonstrably solved has had a non-supernatural explanation. To suggest that science cannot or will not explain a phenomena, and that only theism can, is hubris of the highest order.

Using ‘god’ to explain something explains nothing. God’s supposed powers and how they work are a mystery. An explanation is intended to clarify and extend knowledge. Attributing a phenomenon to the magical powers of a supernatural being does neither. Worse still, this presumption acts to prevent any deeper investigation, being little more than a form of blissful ignorance.

Theists also predicate god’s existence on a lack of knowledge, not on any positive argument or evidence.

Every conceivable argument, every imaginable piece of evidence for god is not without some fatal flaw or more likely explanation which precludes it from being used as definitive proof.

 

[alang1216]

We were not made in the likeness of a monkey ( Darwin was painfully wrong with his "theory of evolution - we didn't evolved from monkeys) we were not made in the image of angels - we have no wings and we do not fly round - (other than when we travel in an airplane, helicopter,etc) we were made in the image of God.

So we are created in the image of God- God is a spirit

I'm confused, are we made in the physical "likeness" of God or the spiritual image of God? Or is it both?

 

[GISMYS]

we were not made in the likeness of a monkey ( darwin was painfully wrong with his "theory of evolution - we didn't evolved from monkeys) we were not made in the image of angels - we have no wings and we do not fly round - (other than when we travel in an airplane, helicopter,etc) we were made in the image of god.

So we are created in the image of god- god is a spirit

i'm confused, are we made in the physical "likeness" of god or the spiritual image of god? Or is it both?

almighty god the father is spirit,god the son is jesus. God is father,son and holyspirit = almighty god!!

 

[JimBowie1958]

Ironic coming from someone who believes men who lived 2,000 years ago somehow knew more back then than we know today.

Maybe you should move into the 21st Century and re-evalute the writings of men who lived in a time of ignorance, superstitution, and fear. Men who didn't know why it rained or why it didn't rain, why there were earthquakes, floods, locust, and volcanos, why some were born different and others got sick and died.

Easy to understand how people who lived lives that were brutish and short and at the mercy of seemly random fate would want to believe they would inherit the earth and have eternal life in heaven. The irony there is that the comfort that religion brought them did nothing to improve their lives and, in fact impeded the scientific progress that could have improved their lives. They traded this life for the promise of one to come.

Great post.

Until we understand something we “do not know”. Positing a ‘god’ in place of admitting personal ignorance is an unfounded leap which demonstrates a fundamental lack of humility.

The existence and non-existence of a god are not equally probable outcomes.

There are two types of people, those that come from a place of faith and those that come from a place of skeptacism. Most of us grow up with faith in our mothers and expand our faith from there based on what we're taught. The less fortunate search for the faith they didn't get from their childhood. Others, like me grow away from our faith and towards logic.

Not claiming any group is better or worse than any other, we're all looking for the same thing, we just get it from different places.

No, not all of us are.

I don't think you are looking for anything other than cover.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Ironic coming from someone who believes men who lived 2,000 years ago somehow knew more back then than we know today.

what an odd, (and foolish) assumption.....

So you don't believe God somehow communicated scipture to these men 2,000 years ago? My bad.

But if you do you'll have to admit they had the entire scipture, works lost to us today. What did God say in them that we don't know today?

Sarcasm, deliberate misconstruction and a blind mindedness that is nearly clinical.

And you say you are searching for what exactly? Ego boosts? Something to impress the kiddies with?

 

[alang1216]

what an odd, (and foolish) assumption.....

So you don't believe God somehow communicated scipture to these men 2,000 years ago? My bad.

But if you do you'll have to admit they had the entire scipture, works lost to us today. What did God say in them that we don't know today?

Sarcasm, deliberate misconstruction and a blind mindedness that is nearly clinical.

And you say you are searching for what exactly? Ego boosts? Something to impress the kiddies with?

No need to answer my questions but I'm still happy to answer yours.

The answer is that I'm looking to be shown I'm wrong. We learn something new from our mistakes. When we're proven right we only learn we were right.

 

[PratchettFan]

Ironic coming from someone who believes men who lived 2,000 years ago somehow knew more back then than we know today.

Maybe you should move into the 21st Century and re-evalute the writings of men who lived in a time of ignorance, superstitution, and fear. Men who didn't know why it rained or why it didn't rain, why there were earthquakes, floods, locust, and volcanos, why some were born different and others got sick and died.

Easy to understand how people who lived lives that were brutish and short and at the mercy of seemly random fate would want to believe they would inherit the earth and have eternal life in heaven. The irony there is that the comfort that religion brought them did nothing to improve their lives and, in fact impeded the scientific progress that could have improved their lives. They traded this life for the promise of one to come.

Great post.

Until we understand something we “do not know”. Positing a ‘god’ in place of admitting personal ignorance is an unfounded leap which demonstrates a fundamental lack of humility.

The existence and non-existence of a god are not equally probable outcomes.

There are two types of people, those that come from a place of faith and those that come from a place of skeptacism. Most of us grow up with faith in our mothers and expand our faith from there based on what we're taught. The less fortunate search for the faith they didn't get from their childhood. Others, like me grow away from our faith and towards logic.

Not claiming any group is better or worse than any other, we're all looking for the same thing, we just get it from different places.

There are many different types of people. Placing people you do not know into little boxes has nothing to do with logic.

 

[PratchettFan]

The validity of a claim, such as the existence of god, is not governed by the intelligence of the minds which hold it. Evidence and reason are the deciding factors.

See why it's hard to debate you theists? Do you believe people lived to be 800 years old back in the day? Do you believe snakes could talk? Do you believe the Noah flood story happened? If you do you are a fool and if you don't but still believe in god, why?

Many christians know the Noah and Adam and Eve stories are just stories but then they believe literally the jesus story.

In fact many christians can point out the stupidity of the mormon, muslim and jewish religions but they can't do it to their own religion. Virgin birth. Miracles. HA!

The reason you are having trouble debating is because I am holding you to the standard you claim to meet. If evidence and reason are the deciding factors, then present your evidence. Any position in the absence of evidence has no claim to reason.

Another reason you are having trouble is that you are still a Christian. I have told you multiple times that I am not a Christian and I have never been a Christian. Nor am I Jewish or Muslim. Yet you want me to explain how I can believe in God and not the Flood? I am giving you facts and you are ignoring them. Yet you want me to accept that yours is a rational position.

Ah, you are like boss. As long as you don't believe the organized religions, I'm cool with you clinging to your fairy tale. Harmless. Stupid, but harmless. Eventually you'll grow up or your kids or grandkids will grow out of it. Especially if you aren't using a fairy tale book as your source. All you can do is tell your kids what you think. At least you aren't telling them about a religion that is a lie as if it is fact.

I am not a Christian I'm a former christian who less than a year ago believed like you and Boss. I realized organized religions were bullshit but still had a personal relationship with god. I recently gave that up. No hard feelings. Just realized I was talking to myself.

And if you are saying that "Atheists should prove god doesn’t exist." The burden of proof is on the person or party asserting the claim; in this case, the theist.

I will believe you are not a Christian when you can show that you are able to break away from Christian beliefs. So far, you have shown no such ability.

I do not say Atheists should prove god doesn't exist, I say that anyone has to prove statements made as if they were fact. I don't care what statement they are making. Atheists don't get a free ride. If you are making the claim, then the burden is on you. When you say there is no god that cares for you, and I believe it was you who said that, then either produce the evidence to support that claim or admit it is pure belief. And if it is pure belief, then don't pat yourself on the back about how rational you're being.

 

[JimBowie1958]

So you don't believe God somehow communicated scipture to these men 2,000 years ago? My bad.

But if you do you'll have to admit they had the entire scipture, works lost to us today. What did God say in them that we don't know today?

Sarcasm, deliberate misconstruction and a blind mindedness that is nearly clinical.

And you say you are searching for what exactly? Ego boosts? Something to impress the kiddies with?

No need to answer my questions but I'm still happy to answer yours.

The answer is that I'm looking to be shown I'm wrong. We learn something new from our mistakes. When we're proven right we only learn we were right.

Do you understand the Infinite Regression Fallacy?

Do you see how that proves that time had to have a beginning point?

Why not, if you are so pursuant of Truth?

You are a fraud, like GIMSYS, merely a little less transparent

 

[PratchettFan]

The validity of a claim, such as the existence of god, is not governed by the intelligence of the minds which hold it. Evidence and reason are the deciding factors.

See why it's hard to debate you theists? Do you believe people lived to be 800 years old back in the day? Do you believe snakes could talk? Do you believe the Noah flood story happened? If you do you are a fool and if you don't but still believe in god, why?

Many christians know the Noah and Adam and Eve stories are just stories but then they believe literally the jesus story.

In fact many christians can point out the stupidity of the mormon, muslim and jewish religions but they can't do it to their own religion. Virgin birth. Miracles. HA!

The reason you are having trouble debating is because I am holding you to the standard you claim to meet. If evidence and reason are the deciding factors, then present your evidence. Any position in the absence of evidence has no claim to reason.

Another reason you are having trouble is that you are still a Christian. I have told you multiple times that I am not a Christian and I have never been a Christian. Nor am I Jewish or Muslim. Yet you want me to explain how I can believe in God and not the Flood? I am giving you facts and you are ignoring them. Yet you want me to accept that yours is a rational position.

Simply because you or the scientific community lack a complete understanding of something does not imply a theistic explanation carries any value. Even if there exists some topic on which science can never speak, any understanding could potentially evade us forever – supernatural or metaphysical speculation would not automatically be correct. Uncertainty is the most legitimate position.

Lightning, earthquakes, volcanos, disease, mental illness, speciation, planetary orbits and numerous other phenomena have been historically labelled ‘supernatural’ only to later be more thoroughly and elegantly explained by science. In fact, every mystery ever demonstrably solved has had a non-supernatural explanation. To suggest that science cannot or will not explain a phenomena, and that only theism can, is hubris of the highest order.

Using ‘god’ to explain something explains nothing. God’s supposed powers and how they work are a mystery. An explanation is intended to clarify and extend knowledge. Attributing a phenomenon to the magical powers of a supernatural being does neither. Worse still, this presumption acts to prevent any deeper investigation, being little more than a form of blissful ignorance.

Theists also predicate god’s existence on a lack of knowledge, not on any positive argument or evidence.

Every conceivable argument, every imaginable piece of evidence for god is not without some fatal flaw or more likely explanation which precludes it from being used as definitive proof.

Not a single shred of evidence presented in that statement, just belief. Not just belief, but willfully ignorant belief. Much of science was not only not prevented by religion, it was nurtured and encouraged by it. The majority of western scientists are believers to some extent, and fully half associate themselves with specific religions. The father of modern genetics was a monk. Astronomy, architecture, mathematics, etc. were all supported by religious institutions. In Europe, the catholic church single handedly maintained learning after the fall of the Roman empire and brought forth the renaissance.

If you would simply stop allowing your beliefs to control your reason, you might well see that just because you don't believe something does not make it stupid or bad.

 

[PostmodernProph]

Ironic coming from someone who believes men who lived 2,000 years ago somehow knew more back then than we know today.

what an odd, (and foolish) assumption.....

So you don't believe God somehow communicated scipture to these men 2,000 years ago? My bad.

But if you do you'll have to admit they had the entire scipture, works lost to us today. What did God say in them that we don't know today?

omigorsh......so I comment on statement X and you pretend you said something completely different.......why didn't I think of trying that brilliant debate mechanism......

my comment was directed at the idiot that claimed I believed men living 2000 years ago knew more than we do today....if you want to defend that fucked up statement, go for it.....your last comeback is being totally ignored.....

 

[PostmodernProph]

We were not made in the likeness of a monkey ( Darwin was painfully wrong with his "theory of evolution - we didn't evolved from monkeys) we were not made in the image of angels - we have no wings and we do not fly round - (other than when we travel in an airplane, helicopter,etc) we were made in the image of God.

So we are created in the image of God- God is a spirit

I'm confused, are we made in the physical "likeness" of God or the spiritual image of God? Or is it both?

God has no "physical" likeness.....

 

[alang1216]

Sarcasm, deliberate misconstruction and a blind mindedness that is nearly clinical.

And you say you are searching for what exactly? Ego boosts? Something to impress the kiddies with?

No need to answer my questions but I'm still happy to answer yours.

The answer is that I'm looking to be shown I'm wrong. We learn something new from our mistakes. When we're proven right we only learn we were right.

Do you understand the Infinite Regression Fallacy?

Do you see how that proves that time had to have a beginning point?

Why not, if you are so pursuant of Truth?

You are a fraud, like GIMSYS, merely a little less transparent

The answers are yes, no, it is a stupid semantic riddle with no practical value.

And you're wrong neither GIMSYS nor I are frauds. He most likely is exactly what he seems to be. There the similarity ends.

 

[oldfart]

Hi, you have received -833 reputation points from PostmodernProph.
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Comment:
there\'s at least one fucking idiot in every crowd.....

Regards,
PostmodernProph

That's very Christian of you. Thanks for reinforcing my point. Your mother must be very proud of you, with such excellent and innovative word choice.

hard to say.....she's dead....

So's mine. At least I paid enough attention to her teaching to know what she would be proud of and what she would be ashamed of in my behavior. I suspect your mother attempted to impart the same. Sad that her wisdom fell on barren ground.