Why is abortion the way of the world?

[Chuz Life]

Financial reasons...and sacrifices.

Yet, when a woman is forced to carry a pregnancy she can not afford, who is it that throws the kid under the bus once it is born? Who is it that is constantly trying to cut funding and programs that would help her? You got it. The ones who, effectively practice abortion after birth, it is no longer a child but welfare spawn.

Tell us exactly how much conservatives would have to provide in the way of welfare for you to finally agree to a ban on abortion.

stop whining about welfare. the right wing should Love welfare queens if it prevents even One abortion of a fellow human being.

Yet another leftard with the same strawman.

Show me where I have fought against welfare for anyone who genuinely needs it.

You won't find it because I have never once done so.

 

[basquebromance]

"Senate Democrats – led by Washington Sen. Patty Murray – blocked a bill that would require babies born alive during abortion to receive reasonable medical care and transport to a hospital.
Nebraska Republican Sen. Ben Sasse introduced the Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act (S. 130) to protect babies who have survived failed abortions. Sasse went to the floor of the Senate Monday to ask his colleagues to pass the bill by unanimous consent, but Democrats objected."

Senate Democrats Block Bill to Protect Babies Surviving Abortion

 

[FA_Q2]

A fertilized egg maybe human but every other cell in my body is also human. Why give one cell more legal rights than any cell?

Why should I give your collection of cells any legal rights at all then?

At some point we have to recognize and protect peoples rights. The left seems to want to place that marker on when your are born and the right when you are conceived. No matter when you think that those rights should be protected is irrelevant to what I stated - at zero time is the fetus part of the mothers body. At conception, that is a unique and wholly separate human.

I don't trust government with control over anyone's body so I do not support making abortion illegal. Abortion until birth is extremely abhorrent though and legal abortion should not, IMHO, extend past the first trimester.

My collection of cells is more than the sum of it's parts (or so I like to believe), in other words a human being or person. No single cell of mine is a person.

That does not have anything to do with the point though. You state that no single cell is 'you' but where is the line then? 2 cells? 4? 4 billion?

The answer is pretty simple - all of them that make up your person. When you were a fetus, that number was significantly smaller but you were no less a unique and separate entity then as you are now - only the value we place there differs.

On this "I do not support making abortion illegal. Abortion until birth is extremely abhorrent though and legal abortion should not, IMHO, extend past the first trimester" we agree with the caveat "except in extraordinary circumstances".

Certainly. I don't really think that any significant number of people are against abortion under extraordinary circumstances.

 

[FA_Q2]

Most pro-lifers forget to mention it is personhood they are pro because that means they would have to define what it means to be a person and that inevitably leads back to religion​

Still false - that is the pro choice argument trying to force its precepts on a pro life position. A pro life position recognized the sanctity of HUMAN life. Pro choice wants to divide that human life up into a part that is expendable and part that is not.

And none of that requires a religious precept.

A fertilized egg maybe human but every other cell in my body is also human. Why give one cell more legal rights than any cell?

A fertilised egg (zygote) may only be one cell in size but ulike all the other celks in "your body, " a zygote is a complete organism.

Biology 101 stuff right there.

So? Do all complete organisms have a right to live? An amoeba is a complete organism but unlike a zygote it is independent, can find food, move, and reproduce. Since a zygote can do so little for itself I don't see it as "complete".

A zygote or fetus is no different in those respects though - the fetus feeds off the mother (and finds/consumes food as well on its own before the cord forms) and is confined in her body in the same manner and the same limitations as thousands of other small (multi celled and complex) organisms in all our bodies.

 

[playtime]

a woman has a right to her uterus & destiny.

 

[FA_Q2]

At conception, that is a unique and wholly separate human.

No it's not. It is a unique combination of human DNA. it is not yet a Human Being.

Anyway, so what? There is nothing divine about a fertilized egg just because it is human. Many of those never become human being either.

Yes it is and no stamping the floor and demanding it is not changes that.

There is no magic moment when those DNA cells suddenly become human. Trying to define it any other way only leads to logical pretzels with indistinct definitions.

And I never stated there was anything divine about it. That is locked in YOUR head, not mine, or you would not be trying to define early stages of HUMAN development as somehow not human.

My issue here is not a 'divine' egg but that the majority of those supporting abortion outright refuse to acknowledge what they support in the first place. The implication there is blatantly obvious - the moral implications of abortion are clear to pretty much everyone so supporters redefine what is human in an attempt to make those implications go away.

It is an attempt to whitewash the severity and weight of what abortion is - something that should almost NEVER happen because even a modicum of responsibility stops almost all unwanted pregnancies.

 

[FA_Q2]

Why should I prove something I didn't do. Prove your accusation. When did I say a zygote from two human parents was non-human? A zygote is an unattached fertilized egg. When it attaches to the mothers womb it becomes an embryo. Not all zygotes attach to their mothers wombs. Nothing sacred about conception.

...

No it's not my argument at all. Fact is a good percent of those zygote never take and never become human beings. Why would that fact make you think it's ok to kill people?

Becomes does more than imply that it was not before...

 

[alang1216]

You state that no single cell is 'you' but where is the line then? 2 cells? 4? 4 billion?

The answer is pretty simple - all of them that make up your person. When you were a fetus, that number was significantly smaller but you were no less a unique and separate entity then as you are now - only the value we place there differs.

For every complex problem there is a simple solution that is elegant, easily understood, and completely wrong.

It is not the quantity of cells, it is the quality. When that fetus can survive outside of the womb, then I would consider it a human being worthy of legal protection.

 

[Crixus]

25 Cultures That Practiced Human Sacrifice

Because historically child sacrifice was the status quo

It's just who we are.

And it is for the same reason, which is material gain. Most women have abortions due to financial concerns. Likewise, pretty much all ancient religions sacrificed their children to the gods for such things as victory at war or fertile crops, etc.

Eugenics. Democrats support it. That’s why they only put abortion clinics in poor minority’s neighborhoods.

 

[Dragonlady]

25 Cultures That Practiced Human Sacrifice

Because historically child sacrifice was the status quo

It's just who we are.

And it is for the same reason, which is material gain. Most women have abortions due to financial concerns. Likewise, pretty much all ancient religions sacrificed their children to the gods for such things as victory at war or fertile crops, etc.

In the old, old days, some cultures believed that the gods would be more moved and willing to "help" if they were given the most precious gifts of the people. There is no more precious gift than a person's child, yannow---like Isaac?
Today people are terminating pregnancies when they cannot afford to feed, clothe, educate and house the child in a decent fashion. It is called being responsible to not bring an unwelcome child into the world.

Its called murder. Cant sanitize it.

In our society, not all killings are murder. Fact.

True, but killing innocent life is murder. That's abortion. Can't sanitize or gray it out to help you with your emotions.

First off, it's not "murder", nor is it killing "innocent life". That is what YOU believe.

I'm a woman who has never had an abortion because I believe it's wrong, but I have had 2 miscarriages, and three live births, and I would NEVER ask another woman to carry a child to term that she does not want and cannot afford, because it's NOT YOUR LIFE, and you will not be financially responsible for carrying and bearing that child.

I can imagine nothing more horrible in my entire life than being forced to have a baby you must give away or otherwise are not in a position to raise. Those who say that it would be OK for a woman who becomes pregnant because of rape or incest to have an abortion but under other circumstances ignore the horrendous abuse that it was to put women through the most intrusive, personal, and life changing decision a woman ever makes in her life, which is the decision whether or not to have a baby,

God gave me free will, but YOU would take that away. You're not doing God's will by denying abortion. You are THWARTING it.

 

[alang1216]

Yet another leftard with the same strawman.

Show me where I have fought against welfare for anyone who genuinely needs it.

You won't find it because I have never once done so.

So you lump all your opponents together as leftards yet insist on being treated by them as an individual. Hypocrisy?

 

[alang1216]

A zygote or fetus is no different in those respects though - the fetus feeds off the mother (and finds/consumes food as well on its own before the cord forms) and is confined in her body in the same manner and the same limitations as thousands of other small (multi celled and complex) organisms in all our bodies.

Which gut bacteria is worthy of legal protections?

 

[basquebromance]

abortion doctors claim they dont know when the child receives a soul. that is stunning. if you dont know when the unborn gets a soul, how do you know the child gets a soul? does this mean you can abort a 5 year old child for not having a soul?

this is disgusting to discuss

 

[alang1216]

abortion doctors claim they dont know when the child receives a soul. that is stunning. if you dont know when the unborn gets a soul, how do you know the child gets a soul? does this mean you can abort a 5 year old child for not having a soul?

this is disgusting to discuss

What's a soul? Is it natural or supernatural?

 

[Mr Natural]

What's a soul? Is it natural or supernatural?

It's the part of the brain that allows for abstract thought.

 

[ColonelAngus]

25 Cultures That Practiced Human Sacrifice

Because historically child sacrifice was the status quo

It's just who we are.

And it is for the same reason, which is material gain. Most women have abortions due to financial concerns. Likewise, pretty much all ancient religions sacrificed their children to the gods for such things as victory at war or fertile crops, etc.

In the old, old days, some cultures believed that the gods would be more moved and willing to "help" if they were given the most precious gifts of the people. There is no more precious gift than a person's child, yannow---like Isaac?
Today people are terminating pregnancies when they cannot afford to feed, clothe, educate and house the child in a decent fashion. It is called being responsible to not bring an unwelcome child into the world.

Being responsible?

How about not getting fucking pregnant if you don’t want a baby?

 

[LordBrownTrout]

25 Cultures That Practiced Human Sacrifice

Because historically child sacrifice was the status quo

It's just who we are.

And it is for the same reason, which is material gain. Most women have abortions due to financial concerns. Likewise, pretty much all ancient religions sacrificed their children to the gods for such things as victory at war or fertile crops, etc.

In the old, old days, some cultures believed that the gods would be more moved and willing to "help" if they were given the most precious gifts of the people. There is no more precious gift than a person's child, yannow---like Isaac?
Today people are terminating pregnancies when they cannot afford to feed, clothe, educate and house the child in a decent fashion. It is called being responsible to not bring an unwelcome child into the world.

Its called murder. Cant sanitize it.

In our society, not all killings are murder. Fact.

True, but killing innocent life is murder. That's abortion. Can't sanitize or gray it out to help you with your emotions.

First off, it's not "murder", nor is it killing "innocent life". That is what YOU believe.

I'm a woman who has never had an abortion because I believe it's wrong, but I have had 2 miscarriages, and three live births, and I would NEVER ask another woman to carry a child to term that she does not want and cannot afford, because it's NOT YOUR LIFE, and you will not be financially responsible for carrying and bearing that child.

I can imagine nothing more horrible in my entire life than being forced to have a baby you must give away or otherwise are not in a position to raise. Those who say that it would be OK for a woman who becomes pregnant because of rape or incest to have an abortion but under other circumstances ignore the horrendous abuse that it was to put women through the most intrusive, personal, and life changing decision a woman ever makes in her life, which is the decision whether or not to have a baby,

God gave me free will, but YOU would take that away. You're not doing God's will by denying abortion. You are THWARTING it.

Its not your life either and the man is equally responsible. Im not sure how you surmised that I somehow think its all the woman's problem. No, not at all. Is it Gods will to murder innocent babies and life?

 

[Crixus]

25 Cultures That Practiced Human Sacrifice

Because historically child sacrifice was the status quo

It's just who we are.

And it is for the same reason, which is material gain. Most women have abortions due to financial concerns. Likewise, pretty much all ancient religions sacrificed their children to the gods for such things as victory at war or fertile crops, etc.

Says it all.


The Public Papers of Margaret Sanger: Web Edition

 

[Rustic]

25 Cultures That Practiced Human Sacrifice

Because historically child sacrifice was the status quo

It's just who we are.

And it is for the same reason, which is material gain. Most women have abortions due to financial concerns. Likewise, pretty much all ancient religions sacrificed their children to the gods for such things as victory at war or fertile crops, etc.

Newly aborted baby parts are extremely profitable and progressives immensely enjoy controlling the unborn

 

[FA_Q2]

You state that no single cell is 'you' but where is the line then? 2 cells? 4? 4 billion?

The answer is pretty simple - all of them that make up your person. When you were a fetus, that number was significantly smaller but you were no less a unique and separate entity then as you are now - only the value we place there differs.

For every complex problem there is a simple solution that is elegant, easily understood, and completely wrong.

It is not the quantity of cells, it is the quality. When that fetus can survive outside of the womb, then I would consider it a human being worthy of legal protection.

First, we agreed on legal protections but my points are about what we are talking about and what abortion actually is. Amorphous definitions like viability fail miserably though. By extension, anyone on life support now fails your test. Clearly not a consistent position to take. Viability is a garbage metric to use for multiple reasons legally and utterly useless when trying to define what we are talking about. What do you think those cells are when they are not viable? They are not human? Viability changes as technology progresses as well and one day viability will be at the moment of conception.