Why is Building the Wall Wrong?

[toobfreak]

Poor Billy, hundreds of miles have already been put up! Hundreds more on the way.

Listen prick, you're not going to turn this country into East Berlin.

We wouldn't possibly want to, we want you assholes to be able to leave anytime you want.

.

Yes, while the Berlin wall keep everyone who was out, out, because they were out, and everyone that was in, in, because they were in, no ifs, and, or buts, the southern border wall will merely stop ILLEGAL traffic so that we can at least vet who comes into the country to ensure safety and a better class of people who truly intend to contribute and be Americans.

You could call TRump's wall the anti-Berlin wall. That assholes like BilloReally can't see that only proves these people are less than idiots. The Left are a bunch of wind up puppets.

Great…so we put up a wall, have soldiers walking sentry duty across the top with automatic weapons.

Make America Great by making it look like East Berlin.

So for you it's all about appearances and not what works?

.

Tex, EVERYTHING with the Left is about appearances, because nothing they do ever works.

 

[candycorn]

With or without illegal immigration, the number of Hispanics in America will continue to grow due to a higher birth rate and legal immigration. By mid century, our minorities with be the majority.

What you're forgetting is that as Hispanics are in the country longer, they grow more affluent and their birth rate declines. Only the constant influx from the border keeps their birthrate up. Once that spigot is shut off, Hispanic will come to resemble typical Americans more and more. They will also grow more conservative as they age.

There goes the end of your majority.

Over 1 in 4 Americans born since 2007 are of Hispanic descent. The birth rate can be zero and it’s going to be a problem for the Republcants. This is why you guys are working 24/7 to suppress the vote.

Not just a problem for republicans, but for America in general

-Geaux

I totally disagree. People with Hispanic descent are not a problem. Third generation Hispanic immigrants contribute just as much to the nation as the native population, probably more.

So how long does it take to recoup the trillion plus spent on the first two generations over 10 years?

.

You guys are comical.

 

[Aponi]

More cheap excuses. You people never seem to run out of them.

Unfortunately, Ray, they run out of them very fast, then like children, go full circle right back to the argument they started with, as if they never made it before or had it clearly proven wrong.

Well so far, we have.........

These people work illegally and pay taxes for programs they won't collect on.,

These people work harder than Americans.

These people commit less violent crimes than Americans.

These poor people somehow stimulate the economy.

A wall won't work even though nobody can produce evidence of that claim.

They will simply buy tall ladders or dig tunnels, and our border security, military nor engineers figured that out yet.

These people are taking jobs Americans don't want. Jobs that pay $2.00 an hour.

A wall will turn us into Nazi Germany or the USSR.

The only people wanting a wall are xenophobes and racists.

Protecting our borders interferes in capitalism.

Most illegals enter through legal VISA's, therefore nothing should be done about other ways they get in.

I'm sure I missed some you may have thought of. But the truth of the matter is they are looking for any excuse to have a borderless country.

Although I did not understand what point you were trying to make, I'll give you a few points so that we can clear this up just for you:

1) Those who want the border wall have been asked WHY they want it. When those who do not want the wall respond to one PRETEXT, the wall advocates simply change the goal posts. For example, IIRC when I entered this thread, the pretext for the wall was sovereignty (see post # 951.) Somebody probably addressed more pretexts, but I think I joined the conversation somewhere along post #951.

Since then the pretexts have ranged from undocumented immigrants stealing jobs to not paying taxes and from SUPPOSED costs of immigrants (welfare, medical costs, etc.) to the PRETEXT of safety. At the end of the day, people like Ray have not been able to articulate a reason as to WHY they support a wall idea. Respond to the PRETEXT of the day and they invent another

2) WHEN the PRETEXTS are examined and found to be baseless, Ray, and those who support his position, have a hissy fit, wanting us to look at all their supposed evidence that they think supports their position.

The problem for them is that while China does have a wall, China is also ONE people. 98.5 percent of the Chinese are Han Chinese. To date, the wall supporters have avoided the QUESTION of what the agenda is beyond the wall. Say you write them a check for umpteen BILLIONS of dollars to build the wall. Is the long term goal then to rid America of the third worlders and other foreigners, getting rid of not only the poverty stricken, but say people like Muslims (whose religion dictates that they will either convert or kill us)???

The second problem for the wall advocates is that they cannot understand why a wall may be effective for one country, but not the United States. For whatever reason, the build the wall advocates were never taught that America was founded as a constitutional Republic and THE ONLY NATION ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH WHOSE GOVERNMENT IS GUARANTEEING GOD GIVEN, INHERENT, NATURAL, UNALIENABLE, ABSOLUTE RIGHTS.

You cannot take from one country something you like and then ignore the accompanying things that make their numbers look good. In other words, if you want to be like the Israelis, then you have to declare a state of war; you have to maintain an atmosphere of distrust, conflict, and chaos so that you can have a PRETEXT to suspend the Rights of the people in order to keep the foreigners out.

We're not engaged in a war and sensible people do NOT want the POLICE STATE which would be a necessity to enforce the nutty wall idea. The wall don't just magically keep people out. Whoever guards the wall must HATE the foreigners so that the guards will not be susceptible to turning a blind eye to those who breach the wall.

Americans will have to be programmed, Pavlovian style, to HATE the people from south of the border because, unlike the Israelis, we are not at war from the people south of our border. The Israelis are fighting an enemy who, according to the Bible, have their hand against every man and every man's hand against them. Those Ishmaelites, the people trying to breach Israel's defenses, are doing so in order to KILL a political enemy.

In the United States, the atmosphere is much different. The people coming here from south of the border are finding WILLING Americans to do business with. It's a mutually beneficial relationship. It's not like you have to stand guard at the border and kill or be killed

3) The aim of political globalists is to con the Americans into giving up their Rights. Even when it was pointed out to Ray how, when our Second Amendment Rights were protected, the legal principle protected Sanctuary Cities, he chose to ignore the FACT that the laws required to enforce the nutty wall idea will end up costing you the Rights our forefathers fought, bled and died in order to secure for us.

The pro-wall advocates will call Nancy Pelosi a liar all the way up to the point that she says no wall - no way. The build the wall advocates are generally working in industries where people are actors and negotiators (lawyers, politicians, and people involved in professional wrestling are good at it.) So, those build the wall people do not understand that the fix is in. They will get their silly wall, but the Democrats have already been guaranteed concessions on gun control.

But, like a WWE match, they have to make the "fight" appear real. One only needs to know where Donald Trump stands, historically, on gun control not to understand that the building of the wall is about to come at an expense of the Second Amendment And WHEN it fails to make a difference, more private deals will be struck until we have no more Rights under a Republican form of government, but only a Democracy that will be ruled by the "legal" foreigners we're allowing to take over in this country.

 

[toobfreak]

Listen prick, you're not going to turn this country into East Berlin.

We wouldn't possibly want to, we want you assholes to be able to leave anytime you want.

.

Yes, while the Berlin wall keep everyone who was out, out, because they were out, and everyone that was in, in, because they were in, no ifs, and, or buts, the southern border wall will merely stop ILLEGAL traffic so that we can at least vet who comes into the country to ensure safety and a better class of people who truly intend to contribute and be Americans.

You could call TRump's wall the anti-Berlin wall. That assholes like BilloReally can't see that only proves these people are less than idiots. The Left are a bunch of wind up puppets.

Great…so we put up a wall, have soldiers walking sentry duty across the top with automatic weapons.

Make America Great by making it look like East Berlin.

So for you it's all about appearances and not what works?

.

In the case of the wall, the appearance of an armed encampment is important and, oh yeah, it will not significantly quell illegal immigration. So it’s a lose-lose.

Just Trump getting elected with his pro-wall stance was enough to seriously quell illegals for a very long time. Just imagine what the wall would do. You think invite them?????????

 

[candycorn]

Make America Great by making it look like East Berlin.

EXCEPT, Candycornhole, East Berlin had its guns aimed at its own people as a prison. Our guns are aimed outside merely trying to protect our sovereign integrity from illegal invasion. Big, BIG difference that anyone with an IQ over 43 could see. Thanks for proving yours isn't.

PUT ANOTHER WAY for the doting Left, if it's OK for an illegal to invade us simply because we have a better way of life here for them against all our laws, then it is just as OK for me to break into some rich guys home and steal all his jewelry because they have a better life there for me.

Yeah…makes a huge difference; the specter of this wall with armed troops carrying automatic weapons looking left is much more attractive than them looking to the right.

 

[Aponi]

No one said a wall would magically keep people out but it would seriously slow illegals down if it was build right and it would slow the flow of drugs .
Again a 20 percent reduction in illegals and drugs would safe 7s7s billions a year.yyear.you just cant handle the truth

 

[Slyhunter]

If eh Mexicans continue to invade America, they will become the majority and their way of life will be the new normal. Best start stocking up on your cardboard boxes for future housing.

Success, we will just be like what they left

-Geaux

With or without illegal immigration, the number of Hispanics in America will continue to grow due to a higher birth rate and legal immigration. By mid century, our minorities with be the majority.

What you're forgetting is that as Hispanics are in the country longer, they grow more affluent and their birth rate declines. Only the constant influx from the border keeps their birthrate up. Once that spigot is shut off, Hispanic will come to resemble typical Americans more and more. They will also grow more conservative as they age.

There goes the end of your majority.

Over 1 in 4 Americans born since 2007 are of Hispanic descent. The birth rate can be zero and it’s going to be a problem for the Republcants. This is why you guys are working 24/7 to suppress the vote.

Not just a problem for republicans, but for America in general

-Geaux

Hispanic Americans are Republicans too. It's racist to automatically assume they'll be Progressives.

 

[toobfreak]

Make America Great by making it look like East Berlin.

EXCEPT, Candycornhole, East Berlin had its guns aimed at its own people as a prison. Our guns are aimed outside merely trying to protect our sovereign integrity from illegal invasion. Big, BIG difference that anyone with an IQ over 43 could see. Thanks for proving yours isn't.

PUT ANOTHER WAY for the doting Left, if it's OK for an illegal to invade us simply because we have a better way of life here for them against all our laws, then it is just as OK for me to break into some rich guys home and steal all his jewelry because they have a better life there for me.

Yeah…makes a huge difference; the specter of this wall with armed troops carrying automatic weapons looking left is much more attractive than them looking to the right.

Yeah, corndog, that's like claiming that the specter of having stealth bombers flying overhead in your defense is no different than them coming aimed at you. Just why aren't you out protesting every federal prison where armed men patrol in towers behind locked gates, barbed wire and a high wall? After all, aren't these people infringing on YOUR liberties and sensibilities just as much as the Border Patrol turning our nation into an East Berlin?

According to you, Corncob, we should have open prisons where people voluntarily come and go. Maybe you'll check yourself in. You know, for a better way of life.

 

[Slyhunter]

You're just not paying attention, the border patrol says they are 95% effective, that just makes you look ignorant. After all, they are the experts. The point is to prevent them for reaching US soil, it costs almost $11,000 each to deport them.

.

Wouldn't it be cheaper to kill'em in US custody?

The cheapest way is to create a strong enough deterrent so they don't come here in the first place. Lead by example. If you put out a welcome mat on our border, people are going to take that literally. Same holds true for a Not Welcome mat.

We know most illegal immigrants are in the country to work so just issue more work permits to those without criminal records. Secondly, the big surge in illegal immigration is coming from central america's northern triangle, which is ruled by the cartels and gangs. Spending only a fraction of the cost of a border wall to make this area safe would dramatically reduce illegal immigration as well the drug trade. Change the asylum law so these people have to apply for asylum through their local US embassy or consulate and the caravans would disappear.
Concentrate on ports of entry since this how most of the illegal immigrant population gets into the US. Lastly change the immigration law to make it easier for people with expiring visas to stay in the US and enforce visa overstays.

what about america's working poor? They are already eeking out a living, how are they supposed to make it when jobs are sucked up by your migrants working for pennies on the dollar?

 

[OKTexas]

What you're forgetting is that as Hispanics are in the country longer, they grow more affluent and their birth rate declines. Only the constant influx from the border keeps their birthrate up. Once that spigot is shut off, Hispanic will come to resemble typical Americans more and more. They will also grow more conservative as they age.

There goes the end of your majority.

Over 1 in 4 Americans born since 2007 are of Hispanic descent. The birth rate can be zero and it’s going to be a problem for the Republcants. This is why you guys are working 24/7 to suppress the vote.

Not just a problem for republicans, but for America in general

-Geaux

I totally disagree. People with Hispanic descent are not a problem. Third generation Hispanic immigrants contribute just as much to the nation as the native population, probably more.

So how long does it take to recoup the trillion plus spent on the first two generations over 10 years?

.

You guys are comical.

So tell the class genius, what does 10 X 100 billion total? We spend more than 100 billion annually on illegals. Some estimates go as high as 140 billion annually. The wall is cheap in comparison. BTW so are guards with machine guns.

.

 

[Flopper]

We wouldn't possibly want to, we want you assholes to be able to leave anytime you want.

.

Yes, while the Berlin wall keep everyone who was out, out, because they were out, and everyone that was in, in, because they were in, no ifs, and, or buts, the southern border wall will merely stop ILLEGAL traffic so that we can at least vet who comes into the country to ensure safety and a better class of people who truly intend to contribute and be Americans.

You could call TRump's wall the anti-Berlin wall. That assholes like BilloReally can't see that only proves these people are less than idiots. The Left are a bunch of wind up puppets.

Great…so we put up a wall, have soldiers walking sentry duty across the top with automatic weapons.

Make America Great by making it look like East Berlin.

So for you it's all about appearances and not what works?

.

In the case of the wall, the appearance of an armed encampment is important and, oh yeah, it will not significantly quell illegal immigration. So it’s a lose-lose.

The border patrol disagrees, I'll happily take their word over yours.

.

You really think the border patrol would disagree with the boss. Not going to happen.

 

[candycorn]

Make America Great by making it look like East Berlin.

EXCEPT, Candycornhole, East Berlin had its guns aimed at its own people as a prison. Our guns are aimed outside merely trying to protect our sovereign integrity from illegal invasion. Big, BIG difference that anyone with an IQ over 43 could see. Thanks for proving yours isn't.

PUT ANOTHER WAY for the doting Left, if it's OK for an illegal to invade us simply because we have a better way of life here for them against all our laws, then it is just as OK for me to break into some rich guys home and steal all his jewelry because they have a better life there for me.

Yeah…makes a huge difference; the specter of this wall with armed troops carrying automatic weapons looking left is much more attractive than them looking to the right.

Yeah, corndog, that's like claiming that the specter of having stealth bombers flying overhead in your defense is no different than them coming aimed at you. Just why aren't you out protesting every federal prison where armed men patrol in towers behind locked gates, barbed wire and a high wall? After all, aren't these people infringing on YOUR liberties and sensibilities just as much as the Border Patrol turning our nation into an East Berlin?

According to you, Corncob, we should have open prisons where people voluntarily come and go. Maybe you'll check yourself in. You know, for a better way of life.

Strangely appropriate scene from the Trump desire to make us into Conservistan.

 

[candycorn]

Over 1 in 4 Americans born since 2007 are of Hispanic descent. The birth rate can be zero and it’s going to be a problem for the Republcants. This is why you guys are working 24/7 to suppress the vote.

Not just a problem for republicans, but for America in general

-Geaux

I totally disagree. People with Hispanic descent are not a problem. Third generation Hispanic immigrants contribute just as much to the nation as the native population, probably more.

So how long does it take to recoup the trillion plus spent on the first two generations over 10 years?

.

You guys are comical.

So tell the class genius, what does 10 X 100 billion total? We spend more than 100 billion annually on illegals. Some estimates go as high as 140 billion annually. The wall is cheap in comparison. BTW so are guards with machine guns.

.

If you believe $100B (sometimes its $143 Billion, sometimes it’s 80 billion; I wish you guys could agree on a fable) is being sucked out of the economy and has been for some time…you’re all day stupid.

 

[candycorn]

Make America Great by making it look like East Berlin.

EXCEPT, Candycornhole, East Berlin had its guns aimed at its own people as a prison. Our guns are aimed outside merely trying to protect our sovereign integrity from illegal invasion. Big, BIG difference that anyone with an IQ over 43 could see. Thanks for proving yours isn't.

PUT ANOTHER WAY for the doting Left, if it's OK for an illegal to invade us simply because we have a better way of life here for them against all our laws, then it is just as OK for me to break into some rich guys home and steal all his jewelry because they have a better life there for me.

Yeah…makes a huge difference; the specter of this wall with armed troops carrying automatic weapons looking left is much more attractive than them looking to the right.

Yeah, corndog, that's like claiming that the specter of having stealth bombers flying overhead in your defense is no different than them coming aimed at you. Just why aren't you out protesting every federal prison where armed men patrol in towers behind locked gates, barbed wire and a high wall? After all, aren't these people infringing on YOUR liberties and sensibilities just as much as the Border Patrol turning our nation into an East Berlin?

According to you, Corncob, we should have open prisons where people voluntarily come and go. Maybe you'll check yourself in. You know, for a better way of life.

Possibly the lamest analogy ever.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Listen prick, you're not going to turn this country into East Berlin.

We wouldn't possibly want to, we want you assholes to be able to leave anytime you want.

.

Yes, while the Berlin wall keep everyone who was out, out, because they were out, and everyone that was in, in, because they were in, no ifs, and, or buts, the southern border wall will merely stop ILLEGAL traffic so that we can at least vet who comes into the country to ensure safety and a better class of people who truly intend to contribute and be Americans.

You could call TRump's wall the anti-Berlin wall. That assholes like BilloReally can't see that only proves these people are less than idiots. The Left are a bunch of wind up puppets.

Great…so we put up a wall, have soldiers walking sentry duty across the top with automatic weapons.

Make America Great by making it look like East Berlin.

So for you it's all about appearances and not what works?

.

Tex, EVERYTHING with the Left is about appearances, because nothing they do ever works.

"Folks, liberals measure success by intent. Conservatives measure success by results."
Rush Limbaugh

 

[Flopper]

No one said a wall would magically keep people out but it would seriously slow illegals down if it was build right and it would slow the flow of drugs .
Again a 20 percent reduction in illegals and drugs would safe 7s7s billions a year.yyear.you just cant handle the truth

With half the illegals in the country coming in legally and only a 20% drop in illegal entry it wouldn't be worth 25 or 30 billion dollars, particular when you consider that whenever democrats get control, they're going to reform immigration and the wall will be joke.

 

[candycorn]

We wouldn't possibly want to, we want you assholes to be able to leave anytime you want.

.

Yes, while the Berlin wall keep everyone who was out, out, because they were out, and everyone that was in, in, because they were in, no ifs, and, or buts, the southern border wall will merely stop ILLEGAL traffic so that we can at least vet who comes into the country to ensure safety and a better class of people who truly intend to contribute and be Americans.

You could call TRump's wall the anti-Berlin wall. That assholes like BilloReally can't see that only proves these people are less than idiots. The Left are a bunch of wind up puppets.

Great…so we put up a wall, have soldiers walking sentry duty across the top with automatic weapons.

Make America Great by making it look like East Berlin.

So for you it's all about appearances and not what works?

.

Tex, EVERYTHING with the Left is about appearances, because nothing they do ever works.

"Folks, liberals measure success by intent. Conservatives measure success by results."
Rush Limbaugh

This should be fun to bring up the next time you blame the Democrats for Trump’s failures. Because if he’s not successful, that means he’s a failure, right?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

If eh Mexicans continue to invade America, they will become the majority and their way of life will be the new normal. Best start stocking up on your cardboard boxes for future housing.

Success, we will just be like what they left

-Geaux

With or without illegal immigration, the number of Hispanics in America will continue to grow due to a higher birth rate and legal immigration. By mid century, our minorities with be the majority.

What you're forgetting is that as Hispanics are in the country longer, they grow more affluent and their birth rate declines. Only the constant influx from the border keeps their birthrate up. Once that spigot is shut off, Hispanic will come to resemble typical Americans more and more. They will also grow more conservative as they age.

There goes the end of your majority.

Over 1 in 4 Americans born since 2007 are of Hispanic descent. The birth rate can be zero and it’s going to be a problem for the Republcants. This is why you guys are working 24/7 to suppress the vote.

Not just a problem for republicans, but for America in general

-Geaux

I totally disagree. People with Hispanic descent are not a problem. Third generation Hispanic immigrants contribute just as much to the nation as the native population, probably more.

I think you'd probably find that with any group of people. However it's unfair to others wanting to come here that we don't do anything about people from C/SA. Just because they border our country doesn't mean they should be able to cut in line which cuts other people out.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Sir, you did not like brevity and I don't know if you are just a regular troll or don't understand the way the legal and political system works.

Maybe, if you would quit lying, we could have a civil conversation. So let me tell you straight up: If you will find one sentence where I advocated "doing nothing," I will ask the mods to take all my posts down and I will leave you to say whatever you want. I will permanently EXIT this board. If you reread this thread and come up with nothing, you will be given an opportunity to apologize for that blatant lie. OR you can continue to lie and discredit your own position.

What I've said is that you need a solution that covers BOTH those from south of the border as well as the 60 percent of undocumented foreigners your ideas ignore. IF you ever had a plan, you have never mentioned it.

What I've said is that the plan must be a PERMANENT solution, not some fly by the seat of your pants idea to build a silly wall with no future idea of how to handle the new set of problems it will bring OR what the agenda is once you figure out YOU WILL STILL HAVE AN IMMIGRATION ISSUE. And, if the Democrats don't want a wall, they will dismantle it the moment they get another liberal in the White House... but, they won't. It was their idea first - and even Donald Trump acknowledged that.

If you want brevity, don't expect thirty years of experience in five sentences or less. If you want brevity, quit lying and if you still doubt a set of facts, ASK questions instead of making baseless allegations. You and I both realize that you are not stupid enough to believe I'm on the left. It's been explained to you. You can try to filibuster from now on, but the PRETEXTS will be dismantled. I could keep the overwhelming majority of those people "on their side of the fence" without a wall and without blowing BILLIONS of tax dollars, not to mention screwing my fellow Americans by taking a giant dump on their Rights. Face it - you will accept socialism, a repeal of the Bill of Rights, or anything else for that precious wall.

Sorry, but I fail to subscribe to this idiocy of All or Nothing. To say we shouldn't be doing anything on our southern border because of the other ways they get here is as ridiculous of an argument as one could make. It's like saying I'm not going to fence off my property to stop intruders because I can't afford an alarm system in my house right now.

If the anti-white party wants to take down a wall; a wall that taxpayers just spent X billions on, it would reveal to the country their real intentions which is not to stop illegal immigration and show the world they are for open borders. So they will never do that. They want to keep their dog and pony show of saying they want to do things and not really do them.

And as we asked repeatedly, how does a wall have anything to do with freedom, the Bill of Rights, Socialism, or any American rights? You are just making crap up. You have zero evidence to support your claims. It's paranoia delusion.

Do you bother paying attention? What makes you lie like a New York politician? You most assuredly HAVE BEEN shown how the enforcement of laws related to immigration affect your Rights. Are you going to force me to repeat the Printz decision (a pro-gun ruling) being used to justify Sanctuary Cities? Do I have to repeat that to you? Do you see why my posts to you cannot be brief? I'll help you out. Read what I read this morning:

Trump was right.

See posts 5 through 8. Maybe they can explain this so you get the picture.

Insofar as the all or nothing comment, I'll say this:

It would be easier and more prudent; cheaper and more likely to pass an idea to Congress a bill that both sides would sign. The thing of it is, some folks done figured it out. You've been had and that link above shows that you are about to be in a world of skeet... or how did they put it in the movie Full Metal Jacket?

I have no idea what that outdoors blog has to do with this conversation. As for the link that started it, it only explained how Trump was talking about closing down the border if Mexico wasn't going to help. What does that prove? The article talked about how gang members were planning to use our systems to enter the country illegally, and thankfully since we DO HAVE border agents, they busted them.

The border has nothing to do with my rights or yours. It didn't have anything to do with my rights last year, the year before, ten years before, or even twenty, and extending the border wall won't change that either.

You live in a state of denial. WHEN Nancy Pelosi sticks that gun up your arse, you are welcome to come back here and make the idiotic, irrelevant, stupid, and moronic statements you've become noted for.

Everything associated with that wall will have a cost - and I agree, it WILL be built. It will be built at a cost to your constitutional Liberties just as that link is also predicting. If you don't understand the correlation, you should read a few civics books and give it a rest on the posting. Those posts talked about a HELL of a lot more than what you claim. You must think that those who agree with you are total idiots and won't check it out for themselves. You may or may not be right, but if even one of them checks it out, they will begin thinking about the real costs of forfeiting their Liberty for a stupid wall.

Well I'll tell you what, if the wall is built and you lose some sort of liberty, start a topic on it and I'll be glad to be one of the first posters to tell you that you're right.

The Democrats have been trying to disarm America for as long as I remember. A wall won't change that pro or con. What secures our rights is not a wall, but an American unbiased Supreme Court which has already stopped Democrats from trying to make it more difficult and costly to secure our Second Amendment rights.

What you are trying to do is convince us that your predictions are set in stone. There is no truth to that. You can speculate all you want, but until you have some sort of evidence of your claim, it's moot just like anybody else's claims are here. When it comes to politics, you're not the only soothsayer in the bunch. Just read the topics on this service.

1) What you are giving up in order to get the wall is pretty much common sense. I realize that you have not grown up beyond believing in Santa Claus, but in order to get the wall passed, you have to give up something. That is simply reality Ray

2) We've discussed before how the draconian enforcement of the existing laws have eviscerated the Fourth Amendment when the Constitution Free Zone is being enforced against Americans:









3) Political strategists think like chess players - a game you and I know damn well you don't know squat about. You're more like the wrestler who allows his opponent to get behind him and outmaneuver you because you do not have the capability to think about what the opponent's next move is in advance.

But, since the build the wall guys don't understand basic legal principles, they are the same people that supported the Printz case in the United States Supreme Court (Hell some of the original Plaintiffs are today build the wall supporters.) Then, the legal principle followed that local and state LEOs do not have to enforce federal laws which led to the feds not being able to shut down Sanctuary Cities.

In the instant case, since the border will also impose on private property, the LEO community can do a warrant less search on your property on the pretext of maintaining their precious wall. There goes your private property Rights

4) Many people still don't realize that this obsession with pursuing undocumented foreigners from south of the border caused the first supporters of their cause to lose in court AND the judge ruled that the civilian border patrol violated the civil rights of the undocumented foreigners who trespassed over private property and entered the U.S. improperly.

The decision in that ruling ended the question of whether or not undocumented foreigners had constitutional rights in the United States. THAT, like the way the Printz case was decided in favor of the foreigners, is simply because people like Ray could not think and anticipate: SSN based National ID, profiling, warrant less searches, undocumented foreigners having constitutional rights, the end of innocent until proven guilty were all confirmed by the courts because people just like Ray want what they want and refuse to be told to think ahead

5) Finally, in this response, the build the wall guys have argued this is a legal issue (as differentiated from a military / National Security issue.) NOBODY could talk them out of it. While Ray is trying to be a smart ass with his comment about my alleged "predictions." In EVERY case cited above, people on the same side that Ray is on (like the link he tries to belittle) have tried to warn about the consequences predicated on a knowledge of legal precedents. Ray's kind cannot grasp the fact that they have LOST every single, solitary case regarding undocumented foreigners

6) With respect to Ray's uneducated and misinformed ideas about the United States Supreme Court and guns, the gun owners LOST EVERY TIME the United States Supreme Court has ruled in Ray's life.

One such case was Heller v DC wherein the Court RULED:

"Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited."

That ruling is 180 degrees OPPOSITE of EVERY state court's FIRST interpretation of the Second Amendment and fully contradicts the United States Supreme Court's FIRST interpretation of the Second Amendment. By legislating from the bench, even conservatives have invalidated the Constitution and spit on that document. But, Ray, is so brainwashed and single minded, he cannot see the truth.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No one said a wall would magically keep people out but it would seriously slow illegals down if it was build right and it would slow the flow of drugs .
Again a 20 percent reduction in illegals and drugs would safe 7s7s billions a year.yyear.you just cant handle the truth

With half the illegals in the country coming in legally and only a 20% drop in illegal entry it wouldn't be worth 25 or 30 billion dollars, particular when you consider that whenever democrats get control, they're going to reform immigration and the wall will be joke.

You mean like they reformed it all these years?

The Democrats are not going to do anything that doesn't benefit them. And whatever benefits the Democrats is a disadvantage to citizens.