Why is Building the Wall Wrong?

[sealybobo]

But if illegal immigrants won't pick our produce or bus our tables won't our prices go up? This was the argument cons were making in the 2000's. "Do you want to pay an extra $10,000 for your next house?") The answer is simple: Yes.

But wages would also go up, and even faster than housing or food prices. And CEO salaries, and corporate profits, might moderate back to the levels they were during the "golden age of the American middle class" between the 1940s and Reagan's declaration of war on the middle class in the 1980s.

We saw exactly this scenario played out in the US fifty years ago, when unions helped regulate entry into the workforce, 35 percent of American workers had a union job, and 70 percent of Americans could raise a family on a single, 40-hour-week paycheck. All working Americans would gladly pay a bit more for their food if their paychecks were both significantly higher and more secure. (This would even allow for an increase in the minimum wage - as it did from the 1930s to the 1980s.)

 

[sealybobo]

You need some new material. Reread this thread. I did not become "argumentative" for the first 200 posts that I was involved in it. My first 75 posts were in search of the REAL reasons people wanted the wall. When my patriotism was questioned by Ray, I told him game on. You need to STFU and read the thread before climbing my back with false allegations. We'll get along better if you read the whole story first. National Security is NOT one of the reasons cited in my first inquiries. It's just now being interjected because Trump alleges it. WTH, dude, you need government to save you from yourself?

See these exapmles: posts 2806, 3475, 3476, 3613, 3669 and 3731. Read those and then join the conversation.

Telling me to STFU is funny. Keyboard warriors amuse me. Long your posts are. Incoherent and wordy to boot.

Incoherent because you cannot read; long because those who are so desperate for a wall keep rehashing the same points and keep making the same false allegations. Again, dude, honesty is the enemy of those who worship the wall. Go to post # 2806. Work your way back and tell me of a long post I made BEFORE that.

All I did was ask questions. Me a keyboard warrior? I'd rather meet people face to face. I can go back to asking questions the moment the guys who think they can read minds and have all the answers will provide them without their phony bravado.

President Barack Obama: "Real reform means strong border security, and we can build on the progress my administration has already made — putting more boots on the Southern border than at any time in our history and reducing illegal crossings to their lowest levels in 40 years.”

Secretary Hillary Clinton: "I voted numerous times when I was a senator to spend money to build a barrier to try to prevent illegal immigrants from coming in. And I do think that you have to control your borders."

President Bill Clinton: "It is wrong and ultimately self-defeating for a nation of immigrants to permit the kind of abuse of our immigration laws we have seen in recent years, and we must do more to stop it."

You are only proving a point I've been making since I got on this thread. The Democrats adopted the political idea BEFORE Trump came along. It is not a conservative idea.

The talking points were pioneered by white supremacists and National Socialists back in the 1970s. So, I would presume you have a point?

My only point is that border patrol agents want it and they are on the frontlines. I would think we would and should be willing to support them. That is all.

What Border Agents Say They Want (It’s Not a Wall)

The report was based on internal Customs and Border Protection documents from the 2017 fiscal year. It concluded that less than one half of 1 percent of the agents’ suggestions to secure the Southwest border mentioned the need for a wall.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Telling me to STFU is funny. Keyboard warriors amuse me. Long your posts are. Incoherent and wordy to boot.

Incoherent because you cannot read; long because those who are so desperate for a wall keep rehashing the same points and keep making the same false allegations. Again, dude, honesty is the enemy of those who worship the wall. Go to post # 2806. Work your way back and tell me of a long post I made BEFORE that.

All I did was ask questions. Me a keyboard warrior? I'd rather meet people face to face. I can go back to asking questions the moment the guys who think they can read minds and have all the answers will provide them without their phony bravado.

President Barack Obama: "Real reform means strong border security, and we can build on the progress my administration has already made — putting more boots on the Southern border than at any time in our history and reducing illegal crossings to their lowest levels in 40 years.”

Secretary Hillary Clinton: "I voted numerous times when I was a senator to spend money to build a barrier to try to prevent illegal immigrants from coming in. And I do think that you have to control your borders."

President Bill Clinton: "It is wrong and ultimately self-defeating for a nation of immigrants to permit the kind of abuse of our immigration laws we have seen in recent years, and we must do more to stop it."

You are only proving a point I've been making since I got on this thread. The Democrats adopted the political idea BEFORE Trump came along. It is not a conservative idea.

The talking points were pioneered by white supremacists and National Socialists back in the 1970s. So, I would presume you have a point?

My only point is that border patrol agents want it and they are on the frontlines. I would think we would and should be willing to support them. That is all.

What Border Agents Say They Want (It’s Not a Wall)

The report was based on internal Customs and Border Protection documents from the 2017 fiscal year. It concluded that less than one half of 1 percent of the agents’ suggestions to secure the Southwest border mentioned the need for a wall.

I've seen other reports that contradict and I actually saw them on TV stating they want a WALL!!!!

In four Customs and Border Protection sectors where physical barriers have been expanded — El Paso, Yuma, Tucson, and San Diego — illegal traffic has dropped by at least 90%.

Dems pre-Trump:

-Hillary: Supported border wall
-Obama: More border security, illegals must speak English, go to back of line
-Schumer: Border walls work
-Reid: Offering benefits to illegals = insane
-Feinstein: US can't be Mexico's welfare
-Clinton: Illegal immigration is wrong

 

[Taz]

Those who argue anything other than its the votes they seek, and the transformation of America so to resemble Mexico and South America are being dishonest

-Geaux

lol. only lousy capitalists lose money on border policy.

You still trying to get the rest of your family in? They can mow my lawn with their teeth like the fucking goats that they are.

ad hominems and other fallacies is all the right wing has.

No, we also have the USA.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

You need some new material. Reread this thread. I did not become "argumentative" for the first 200 posts that I was involved in it. My first 75 posts were in search of the REAL reasons people wanted the wall. When my patriotism was questioned by Ray, I told him game on. You need to STFU and read the thread before climbing my back with false allegations. We'll get along better if you read the whole story first. National Security is NOT one of the reasons cited in my first inquiries. It's just now being interjected because Trump alleges it. WTH, dude, you need government to save you from yourself?

See these exapmles: posts 2806, 3475, 3476, 3613, 3669 and 3731. Read those and then join the conversation.

Telling me to STFU is funny. Keyboard warriors amuse me. Long your posts are. Incoherent and wordy to boot.

Incoherent because you cannot read; long because those who are so desperate for a wall keep rehashing the same points and keep making the same false allegations. Again, dude, honesty is the enemy of those who worship the wall. Go to post # 2806. Work your way back and tell me of a long post I made BEFORE that.

All I did was ask questions. Me a keyboard warrior? I'd rather meet people face to face. I can go back to asking questions the moment the guys who think they can read minds and have all the answers will provide them without their phony bravado.

President Barack Obama: "Real reform means strong border security, and we can build on the progress my administration has already made — putting more boots on the Southern border than at any time in our history and reducing illegal crossings to their lowest levels in 40 years.”

Secretary Hillary Clinton: "I voted numerous times when I was a senator to spend money to build a barrier to try to prevent illegal immigrants from coming in. And I do think that you have to control your borders."

President Bill Clinton: "It is wrong and ultimately self-defeating for a nation of immigrants to permit the kind of abuse of our immigration laws we have seen in recent years, and we must do more to stop it."

You are only proving a point I've been making since I got on this thread. The Democrats adopted the political idea BEFORE Trump came along. It is not a conservative idea.

The talking points were pioneered by white supremacists and National Socialists back in the 1970s. So, I would presume you have a point?

My only point is that border patrol agents want it and they are on the frontlines. I would think we would and should be willing to support them. That is all.

And my point is (and I've been forced to state and defend my own positions) is that my Liberty supersedes what government workers want. The cops want to be able to search your home without a warrant; prosecutors want to try cases on the basis of perjured testimony where they force people to plead guilty or face a longer sentence; a lot of people in society want to infringe on your Right to keep and bear Arms.

Most guys here dodge, duck, play semantics, and lie about what it is they REALLY want. If someone is trying to sell you something, you should ask questions about it. When they then accuse you of being a heretic for questioning the infallibility of Donald Trump and the wall worship deal, then you have NOT thought this through. If / when those who want a wall level with me, I'll tell them where I stand.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

You need some new material. Reread this thread. I did not become "argumentative" for the first 200 posts that I was involved in it. My first 75 posts were in search of the REAL reasons people wanted the wall. When my patriotism was questioned by Ray, I told him game on. You need to STFU and read the thread before climbing my back with false allegations. We'll get along better if you read the whole story first. National Security is NOT one of the reasons cited in my first inquiries. It's just now being interjected because Trump alleges it. WTH, dude, you need government to save you from yourself?

See these exapmles: posts 2806, 3475, 3476, 3613, 3669 and 3731. Read those and then join the conversation.

Telling me to STFU is funny. Keyboard warriors amuse me. Long your posts are. Incoherent and wordy to boot.

Incoherent because you cannot read; long because those who are so desperate for a wall keep rehashing the same points and keep making the same false allegations. Again, dude, honesty is the enemy of those who worship the wall. Go to post # 2806. Work your way back and tell me of a long post I made BEFORE that.

All I did was ask questions. Me a keyboard warrior? I'd rather meet people face to face. I can go back to asking questions the moment the guys who think they can read minds and have all the answers will provide them without their phony bravado.

President Barack Obama: "Real reform means strong border security, and we can build on the progress my administration has already made — putting more boots on the Southern border than at any time in our history and reducing illegal crossings to their lowest levels in 40 years.”

Secretary Hillary Clinton: "I voted numerous times when I was a senator to spend money to build a barrier to try to prevent illegal immigrants from coming in. And I do think that you have to control your borders."

President Bill Clinton: "It is wrong and ultimately self-defeating for a nation of immigrants to permit the kind of abuse of our immigration laws we have seen in recent years, and we must do more to stop it."

You are only proving a point I've been making since I got on this thread. The Democrats adopted the political idea BEFORE Trump came along. It is not a conservative idea.

The talking points were pioneered by white supremacists and National Socialists back in the 1970s. So, I would presume you have a point?

It's true. In the 2000's us liberals were against illegal immigrants while 75% of the Republican party was arguing they were just here doing jobs Americans won't do. That's a lie.

Do a little math. The Bureau of Labor Statistics says there are 7.6 million unemployed Americans right now. Another 1.5 million Americans are no longer counted because they've become "long term" or "discouraged" unemployed workers. And although various groups have different ways of measuring it, most agree that at least another five to ten million Americans are either working part-time when they want to work full-time, or are "underemployed," doing jobs below their level of training, education, or experience. That's between eight and twenty million un- and under-employed Americans, many unable to find above-poverty-level work.

At the same time, there are between seven and fifteen million working illegal immigrants diluting our labor pool.

If illegal immigrants could no longer work, unions would flourish, the minimum wage would rise, and oligarchic nations to our south would have to confront and fix their corrupt ways.

Between the Reagan years - when there were only around 1 to 2 million illegal aliens in our workforce - and today, we've gone from about 25 percent of our private workforce being unionized to around seven percent. Much of this is the direct result - as César Chávez predicted - of illegal immigrants competing directly with unionized and legal labor. Although it's most obvious in the construction trades over the past 30 years, it's hit all sectors of our economy.

My math is simple:

I run ads on Craigslist, in community papers and list with the Dept. of Labor. People don't even show up for an interview.

I could give you the REAL reason this happens, but it would take more than twenty words and you would not admit it. I can show you a hundred people today under 40 that have never worked a job and they won't. Most of it is the fault of people who back bad legislation because you're wholly uninformed.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Telling me to STFU is funny. Keyboard warriors amuse me. Long your posts are. Incoherent and wordy to boot.

Incoherent because you cannot read; long because those who are so desperate for a wall keep rehashing the same points and keep making the same false allegations. Again, dude, honesty is the enemy of those who worship the wall. Go to post # 2806. Work your way back and tell me of a long post I made BEFORE that.

All I did was ask questions. Me a keyboard warrior? I'd rather meet people face to face. I can go back to asking questions the moment the guys who think they can read minds and have all the answers will provide them without their phony bravado.

President Barack Obama: "Real reform means strong border security, and we can build on the progress my administration has already made — putting more boots on the Southern border than at any time in our history and reducing illegal crossings to their lowest levels in 40 years.”

Secretary Hillary Clinton: "I voted numerous times when I was a senator to spend money to build a barrier to try to prevent illegal immigrants from coming in. And I do think that you have to control your borders."

President Bill Clinton: "It is wrong and ultimately self-defeating for a nation of immigrants to permit the kind of abuse of our immigration laws we have seen in recent years, and we must do more to stop it."

You are only proving a point I've been making since I got on this thread. The Democrats adopted the political idea BEFORE Trump came along. It is not a conservative idea.

The talking points were pioneered by white supremacists and National Socialists back in the 1970s. So, I would presume you have a point?

My only point is that border patrol agents want it and they are on the frontlines. I would think we would and should be willing to support them. That is all.

And my point is (and I've been forced to state and defend my own positions) is that my Liberty supersedes what government workers want. The cops want to be able to search your home without a warrant; prosecutors want to try cases on the basis of perjured testimony where they force people to plead guilty or face a longer sentence; a lot of people in society want to infringe on your Right to keep and bear Arms.

Most guys here dodge, duck, play semantics, and lie about what it is they REALLY want. If someone is trying to sell you something, you should ask questions about it. When they then accuse you of being a heretic for questioning the infallibility of Donald Trump and the wall worship deal, then you have NOT thought this through. If / when those who want a wall level with me, I'll tell them where I stand.

Border Patrol agents aren't stopping you from doing anything they are stopping those who are not citizens and want to enter the country illegally. You never answered how it infringes on your liberty. Cops don't want to search homes illegally, fallacy. Prosecutors do not want to try people illegally. Another fallacy. You are at least consistent.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Incoherent because you cannot read; long because those who are so desperate for a wall keep rehashing the same points and keep making the same false allegations. Again, dude, honesty is the enemy of those who worship the wall. Go to post # 2806. Work your way back and tell me of a long post I made BEFORE that.

All I did was ask questions. Me a keyboard warrior? I'd rather meet people face to face. I can go back to asking questions the moment the guys who think they can read minds and have all the answers will provide them without their phony bravado.

President Barack Obama: "Real reform means strong border security, and we can build on the progress my administration has already made — putting more boots on the Southern border than at any time in our history and reducing illegal crossings to their lowest levels in 40 years.”

Secretary Hillary Clinton: "I voted numerous times when I was a senator to spend money to build a barrier to try to prevent illegal immigrants from coming in. And I do think that you have to control your borders."

President Bill Clinton: "It is wrong and ultimately self-defeating for a nation of immigrants to permit the kind of abuse of our immigration laws we have seen in recent years, and we must do more to stop it."

You are only proving a point I've been making since I got on this thread. The Democrats adopted the political idea BEFORE Trump came along. It is not a conservative idea.

The talking points were pioneered by white supremacists and National Socialists back in the 1970s. So, I would presume you have a point?

My only point is that border patrol agents want it and they are on the frontlines. I would think we would and should be willing to support them. That is all.

What Border Agents Say They Want (It’s Not a Wall)

The report was based on internal Customs and Border Protection documents from the 2017 fiscal year. It concluded that less than one half of 1 percent of the agents’ suggestions to secure the Southwest border mentioned the need for a wall.

I've seen other reports that contradict and I actually saw them on TV stating they want a WALL!!!!

In four Customs and Border Protection sectors where physical barriers have been expanded — El Paso, Yuma, Tucson, and San Diego — illegal traffic has dropped by at least 90%.

Dems pre-Trump:

-Hillary: Supported border wall
-Obama: More border security, illegals must speak English, go to back of line
-Schumer: Border walls work
-Reid: Offering benefits to illegals = insane
-Feinstein: US can't be Mexico's welfare
-Clinton: Illegal immigration is wrong

You see what the MSM wants you to see.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Telling me to STFU is funny. Keyboard warriors amuse me. Long your posts are. Incoherent and wordy to boot.

Incoherent because you cannot read; long because those who are so desperate for a wall keep rehashing the same points and keep making the same false allegations. Again, dude, honesty is the enemy of those who worship the wall. Go to post # 2806. Work your way back and tell me of a long post I made BEFORE that.

All I did was ask questions. Me a keyboard warrior? I'd rather meet people face to face. I can go back to asking questions the moment the guys who think they can read minds and have all the answers will provide them without their phony bravado.

President Barack Obama: "Real reform means strong border security, and we can build on the progress my administration has already made — putting more boots on the Southern border than at any time in our history and reducing illegal crossings to their lowest levels in 40 years.”

Secretary Hillary Clinton: "I voted numerous times when I was a senator to spend money to build a barrier to try to prevent illegal immigrants from coming in. And I do think that you have to control your borders."

President Bill Clinton: "It is wrong and ultimately self-defeating for a nation of immigrants to permit the kind of abuse of our immigration laws we have seen in recent years, and we must do more to stop it."

You are only proving a point I've been making since I got on this thread. The Democrats adopted the political idea BEFORE Trump came along. It is not a conservative idea.

The talking points were pioneered by white supremacists and National Socialists back in the 1970s. So, I would presume you have a point?

It's true. In the 2000's us liberals were against illegal immigrants while 75% of the Republican party was arguing they were just here doing jobs Americans won't do. That's a lie.

Do a little math. The Bureau of Labor Statistics says there are 7.6 million unemployed Americans right now. Another 1.5 million Americans are no longer counted because they've become "long term" or "discouraged" unemployed workers. And although various groups have different ways of measuring it, most agree that at least another five to ten million Americans are either working part-time when they want to work full-time, or are "underemployed," doing jobs below their level of training, education, or experience. That's between eight and twenty million un- and under-employed Americans, many unable to find above-poverty-level work.

At the same time, there are between seven and fifteen million working illegal immigrants diluting our labor pool.

If illegal immigrants could no longer work, unions would flourish, the minimum wage would rise, and oligarchic nations to our south would have to confront and fix their corrupt ways.

Between the Reagan years - when there were only around 1 to 2 million illegal aliens in our workforce - and today, we've gone from about 25 percent of our private workforce being unionized to around seven percent. Much of this is the direct result - as César Chávez predicted - of illegal immigrants competing directly with unionized and legal labor. Although it's most obvious in the construction trades over the past 30 years, it's hit all sectors of our economy.

My math is simple:

I run ads on Craigslist, in community papers and list with the Dept. of Labor. People don't even show up for an interview.

I could give you the REAL reason this happens, but it would take more than twenty words and you would not admit it. I can show you a hundred people today under 40 that have never worked a job and they won't. Most of it is the fault of people who back bad legislation because you're wholly uninformed.

Pay more. Supply/Demand economics. What is the job?

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

President Barack Obama: "Real reform means strong border security, and we can build on the progress my administration has already made — putting more boots on the Southern border than at any time in our history and reducing illegal crossings to their lowest levels in 40 years.”

Secretary Hillary Clinton: "I voted numerous times when I was a senator to spend money to build a barrier to try to prevent illegal immigrants from coming in. And I do think that you have to control your borders."

President Bill Clinton: "It is wrong and ultimately self-defeating for a nation of immigrants to permit the kind of abuse of our immigration laws we have seen in recent years, and we must do more to stop it."

You are only proving a point I've been making since I got on this thread. The Democrats adopted the political idea BEFORE Trump came along. It is not a conservative idea.

The talking points were pioneered by white supremacists and National Socialists back in the 1970s. So, I would presume you have a point?

My only point is that border patrol agents want it and they are on the frontlines. I would think we would and should be willing to support them. That is all.

What Border Agents Say They Want (It’s Not a Wall)

The report was based on internal Customs and Border Protection documents from the 2017 fiscal year. It concluded that less than one half of 1 percent of the agents’ suggestions to secure the Southwest border mentioned the need for a wall.

I've seen other reports that contradict and I actually saw them on TV stating they want a WALL!!!!

In four Customs and Border Protection sectors where physical barriers have been expanded — El Paso, Yuma, Tucson, and San Diego — illegal traffic has dropped by at least 90%.

Dems pre-Trump:

-Hillary: Supported border wall
-Obama: More border security, illegals must speak English, go to back of line
-Schumer: Border walls work
-Reid: Offering benefits to illegals = insane
-Feinstein: US can't be Mexico's welfare
-Clinton: Illegal immigration is wrong

You see what the MSM wants you to see.

So you think those persons were actors? LOL

Don't follow your train of thought.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Incoherent because you cannot read; long because those who are so desperate for a wall keep rehashing the same points and keep making the same false allegations. Again, dude, honesty is the enemy of those who worship the wall. Go to post # 2806. Work your way back and tell me of a long post I made BEFORE that.

All I did was ask questions. Me a keyboard warrior? I'd rather meet people face to face. I can go back to asking questions the moment the guys who think they can read minds and have all the answers will provide them without their phony bravado.

President Barack Obama: "Real reform means strong border security, and we can build on the progress my administration has already made — putting more boots on the Southern border than at any time in our history and reducing illegal crossings to their lowest levels in 40 years.”

Secretary Hillary Clinton: "I voted numerous times when I was a senator to spend money to build a barrier to try to prevent illegal immigrants from coming in. And I do think that you have to control your borders."

President Bill Clinton: "It is wrong and ultimately self-defeating for a nation of immigrants to permit the kind of abuse of our immigration laws we have seen in recent years, and we must do more to stop it."

You are only proving a point I've been making since I got on this thread. The Democrats adopted the political idea BEFORE Trump came along. It is not a conservative idea.

The talking points were pioneered by white supremacists and National Socialists back in the 1970s. So, I would presume you have a point?

My only point is that border patrol agents want it and they are on the frontlines. I would think we would and should be willing to support them. That is all.

And my point is (and I've been forced to state and defend my own positions) is that my Liberty supersedes what government workers want. The cops want to be able to search your home without a warrant; prosecutors want to try cases on the basis of perjured testimony where they force people to plead guilty or face a longer sentence; a lot of people in society want to infringe on your Right to keep and bear Arms.

Most guys here dodge, duck, play semantics, and lie about what it is they REALLY want. If someone is trying to sell you something, you should ask questions about it. When they then accuse you of being a heretic for questioning the infallibility of Donald Trump and the wall worship deal, then you have NOT thought this through. If / when those who want a wall level with me, I'll tell them where I stand.

Border Patrol agents aren't stopping you from doing anything they are stopping those who are not citizens and want to enter the country illegally. You never answered how it infringes on your liberty. Cops don't want to search homes illegally, fallacy. Prosecutors do not want to try people illegally. Another fallacy. You are at least consistent.

You've got to be kidding. I've answered this stuff in excess of TWENTY TIMES! WTH? Did you try READING this thread?

Pal, I've tried very hard not to call people names despite the abuse that's been hurled at me, but you're an outright idiot if you honestly believe that prosecutors don't want to try people illegally. I personally witnessed a case wherein the prosecutor LIED to the jury, got to threaten potential witnesses with jail time if they did not commit perjury and corroborate the "state's version of events." In addition, they were allowed to use hearsay. Adding insult to injury, there was never an investigation into the case, the accused first time of ever seeing the officer making the accusation was when they went to court. Other than an alleged victim that was threatened by the prosecutor, there were no witnesses, no investigation, no evidence, and no reason for the defendant to even be in court.

Come up with something relevant already.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Incoherent because you cannot read; long because those who are so desperate for a wall keep rehashing the same points and keep making the same false allegations. Again, dude, honesty is the enemy of those who worship the wall. Go to post # 2806. Work your way back and tell me of a long post I made BEFORE that.

All I did was ask questions. Me a keyboard warrior? I'd rather meet people face to face. I can go back to asking questions the moment the guys who think they can read minds and have all the answers will provide them without their phony bravado.

President Barack Obama: "Real reform means strong border security, and we can build on the progress my administration has already made — putting more boots on the Southern border than at any time in our history and reducing illegal crossings to their lowest levels in 40 years.”

Secretary Hillary Clinton: "I voted numerous times when I was a senator to spend money to build a barrier to try to prevent illegal immigrants from coming in. And I do think that you have to control your borders."

President Bill Clinton: "It is wrong and ultimately self-defeating for a nation of immigrants to permit the kind of abuse of our immigration laws we have seen in recent years, and we must do more to stop it."

You are only proving a point I've been making since I got on this thread. The Democrats adopted the political idea BEFORE Trump came along. It is not a conservative idea.

The talking points were pioneered by white supremacists and National Socialists back in the 1970s. So, I would presume you have a point?

It's true. In the 2000's us liberals were against illegal immigrants while 75% of the Republican party was arguing they were just here doing jobs Americans won't do. That's a lie.

Do a little math. The Bureau of Labor Statistics says there are 7.6 million unemployed Americans right now. Another 1.5 million Americans are no longer counted because they've become "long term" or "discouraged" unemployed workers. And although various groups have different ways of measuring it, most agree that at least another five to ten million Americans are either working part-time when they want to work full-time, or are "underemployed," doing jobs below their level of training, education, or experience. That's between eight and twenty million un- and under-employed Americans, many unable to find above-poverty-level work.

At the same time, there are between seven and fifteen million working illegal immigrants diluting our labor pool.

If illegal immigrants could no longer work, unions would flourish, the minimum wage would rise, and oligarchic nations to our south would have to confront and fix their corrupt ways.

Between the Reagan years - when there were only around 1 to 2 million illegal aliens in our workforce - and today, we've gone from about 25 percent of our private workforce being unionized to around seven percent. Much of this is the direct result - as César Chávez predicted - of illegal immigrants competing directly with unionized and legal labor. Although it's most obvious in the construction trades over the past 30 years, it's hit all sectors of our economy.

My math is simple:

I run ads on Craigslist, in community papers and list with the Dept. of Labor. People don't even show up for an interview.

I could give you the REAL reason this happens, but it would take more than twenty words and you would not admit it. I can show you a hundred people today under 40 that have never worked a job and they won't. Most of it is the fault of people who back bad legislation because you're wholly uninformed.

Pay more. Supply/Demand economics. What is the job?

I'm a minister with a jobs program. We have temp, temp to perm and permanent jobs in many fields from laborers to farm workers and from warehouse workers to construction / handymen positions.

Whites will not work the jobs.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

President Barack Obama: "Real reform means strong border security, and we can build on the progress my administration has already made — putting more boots on the Southern border than at any time in our history and reducing illegal crossings to their lowest levels in 40 years.”

Secretary Hillary Clinton: "I voted numerous times when I was a senator to spend money to build a barrier to try to prevent illegal immigrants from coming in. And I do think that you have to control your borders."

President Bill Clinton: "It is wrong and ultimately self-defeating for a nation of immigrants to permit the kind of abuse of our immigration laws we have seen in recent years, and we must do more to stop it."

You are only proving a point I've been making since I got on this thread. The Democrats adopted the political idea BEFORE Trump came along. It is not a conservative idea.

The talking points were pioneered by white supremacists and National Socialists back in the 1970s. So, I would presume you have a point?

My only point is that border patrol agents want it and they are on the frontlines. I would think we would and should be willing to support them. That is all.

And my point is (and I've been forced to state and defend my own positions) is that my Liberty supersedes what government workers want. The cops want to be able to search your home without a warrant; prosecutors want to try cases on the basis of perjured testimony where they force people to plead guilty or face a longer sentence; a lot of people in society want to infringe on your Right to keep and bear Arms.

Most guys here dodge, duck, play semantics, and lie about what it is they REALLY want. If someone is trying to sell you something, you should ask questions about it. When they then accuse you of being a heretic for questioning the infallibility of Donald Trump and the wall worship deal, then you have NOT thought this through. If / when those who want a wall level with me, I'll tell them where I stand.

Border Patrol agents aren't stopping you from doing anything they are stopping those who are not citizens and want to enter the country illegally. You never answered how it infringes on your liberty. Cops don't want to search homes illegally, fallacy. Prosecutors do not want to try people illegally. Another fallacy. You are at least consistent.

You've got to be kidding. I've answered this stuff in excess of TWENTY TIMES! WTH? Did you try READING this thread?

Pal, I've tried very hard not to call people names despite the abuse that's been hurled at me, but you're an outright idiot if you honestly believe that prosecutors don't want to try people illegally. I personally witnessed a case wherein the prosecutor LIED to the jury, got to threaten potential witnesses with jail time if they did not commit perjury and corroborate the "state's version of events." In addition, they were allowed to use hearsay. Adding insult to injury, there was never an investigation into the case, the accused first time of ever seeing the officer making the accusation was when they went to court. Other than an alleged victim that was threatened by the prosecutor, there were no witnesses, no investigation, no evidence, and no reason for the defendant to even be in court.

Come up with something relevant already.

#1) Some prosecutors may but most do not. Your example doesn't mean all do it.
#2) Two of my life long friends are police officers. They go by the book and get abused daily. I respect them wholeheartedly.
#3) You're a keyboard warrior. I laugh at your expense. Wash your mouth out with soap. Face to face you would not call people idiots don't do it here.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

President Barack Obama: "Real reform means strong border security, and we can build on the progress my administration has already made — putting more boots on the Southern border than at any time in our history and reducing illegal crossings to their lowest levels in 40 years.”

Secretary Hillary Clinton: "I voted numerous times when I was a senator to spend money to build a barrier to try to prevent illegal immigrants from coming in. And I do think that you have to control your borders."

President Bill Clinton: "It is wrong and ultimately self-defeating for a nation of immigrants to permit the kind of abuse of our immigration laws we have seen in recent years, and we must do more to stop it."

You are only proving a point I've been making since I got on this thread. The Democrats adopted the political idea BEFORE Trump came along. It is not a conservative idea.

The talking points were pioneered by white supremacists and National Socialists back in the 1970s. So, I would presume you have a point?

It's true. In the 2000's us liberals were against illegal immigrants while 75% of the Republican party was arguing they were just here doing jobs Americans won't do. That's a lie.

Do a little math. The Bureau of Labor Statistics says there are 7.6 million unemployed Americans right now. Another 1.5 million Americans are no longer counted because they've become "long term" or "discouraged" unemployed workers. And although various groups have different ways of measuring it, most agree that at least another five to ten million Americans are either working part-time when they want to work full-time, or are "underemployed," doing jobs below their level of training, education, or experience. That's between eight and twenty million un- and under-employed Americans, many unable to find above-poverty-level work.

At the same time, there are between seven and fifteen million working illegal immigrants diluting our labor pool.

If illegal immigrants could no longer work, unions would flourish, the minimum wage would rise, and oligarchic nations to our south would have to confront and fix their corrupt ways.

Between the Reagan years - when there were only around 1 to 2 million illegal aliens in our workforce - and today, we've gone from about 25 percent of our private workforce being unionized to around seven percent. Much of this is the direct result - as César Chávez predicted - of illegal immigrants competing directly with unionized and legal labor. Although it's most obvious in the construction trades over the past 30 years, it's hit all sectors of our economy.

My math is simple:

I run ads on Craigslist, in community papers and list with the Dept. of Labor. People don't even show up for an interview.

I could give you the REAL reason this happens, but it would take more than twenty words and you would not admit it. I can show you a hundred people today under 40 that have never worked a job and they won't. Most of it is the fault of people who back bad legislation because you're wholly uninformed.

Pay more. Supply/Demand economics. What is the job?

I'm a minister with a jobs program. We have temp, temp to perm and permanent jobs in many fields from laborers to farm workers and from warehouse workers to construction / handymen positions.

Whites will not work the jobs.

Another blanket statement. Racist statement to boot. Wow.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

You are only proving a point I've been making since I got on this thread. The Democrats adopted the political idea BEFORE Trump came along. It is not a conservative idea.

The talking points were pioneered by white supremacists and National Socialists back in the 1970s. So, I would presume you have a point?

My only point is that border patrol agents want it and they are on the frontlines. I would think we would and should be willing to support them. That is all.

What Border Agents Say They Want (It’s Not a Wall)

The report was based on internal Customs and Border Protection documents from the 2017 fiscal year. It concluded that less than one half of 1 percent of the agents’ suggestions to secure the Southwest border mentioned the need for a wall.

I've seen other reports that contradict and I actually saw them on TV stating they want a WALL!!!!

In four Customs and Border Protection sectors where physical barriers have been expanded — El Paso, Yuma, Tucson, and San Diego — illegal traffic has dropped by at least 90%.

Dems pre-Trump:

-Hillary: Supported border wall
-Obama: More border security, illegals must speak English, go to back of line
-Schumer: Border walls work
-Reid: Offering benefits to illegals = insane
-Feinstein: US can't be Mexico's welfare
-Clinton: Illegal immigration is wrong

You see what the MSM wants you to see.

So you think those persons were actors? LOL

Don't follow your train of thought.

Did I say they were actors? I went to a political rally once. It was right wing. The reporter said approximately 120 people attended. My friends and I walked through the crowd and passed out 780 flyers. Okay some people got more than one, but they didn't get six or more flyers each.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

You are only proving a point I've been making since I got on this thread. The Democrats adopted the political idea BEFORE Trump came along. It is not a conservative idea.

The talking points were pioneered by white supremacists and National Socialists back in the 1970s. So, I would presume you have a point?

My only point is that border patrol agents want it and they are on the frontlines. I would think we would and should be willing to support them. That is all.

And my point is (and I've been forced to state and defend my own positions) is that my Liberty supersedes what government workers want. The cops want to be able to search your home without a warrant; prosecutors want to try cases on the basis of perjured testimony where they force people to plead guilty or face a longer sentence; a lot of people in society want to infringe on your Right to keep and bear Arms.

Most guys here dodge, duck, play semantics, and lie about what it is they REALLY want. If someone is trying to sell you something, you should ask questions about it. When they then accuse you of being a heretic for questioning the infallibility of Donald Trump and the wall worship deal, then you have NOT thought this through. If / when those who want a wall level with me, I'll tell them where I stand.

Border Patrol agents aren't stopping you from doing anything they are stopping those who are not citizens and want to enter the country illegally. You never answered how it infringes on your liberty. Cops don't want to search homes illegally, fallacy. Prosecutors do not want to try people illegally. Another fallacy. You are at least consistent.

You've got to be kidding. I've answered this stuff in excess of TWENTY TIMES! WTH? Did you try READING this thread?

Pal, I've tried very hard not to call people names despite the abuse that's been hurled at me, but you're an outright idiot if you honestly believe that prosecutors don't want to try people illegally. I personally witnessed a case wherein the prosecutor LIED to the jury, got to threaten potential witnesses with jail time if they did not commit perjury and corroborate the "state's version of events." In addition, they were allowed to use hearsay. Adding insult to injury, there was never an investigation into the case, the accused first time of ever seeing the officer making the accusation was when they went to court. Other than an alleged victim that was threatened by the prosecutor, there were no witnesses, no investigation, no evidence, and no reason for the defendant to even be in court.

Come up with something relevant already.

#1) Some prosecutors may but most do not. Your example doesn't mean all do it.
#2) Two of my life long friends are police officers. They go by the book and get abused daily. I respect them wholeheartedly.
#3) You're a keyboard warrior. I laugh at your expense. Wash your mouth out with soap. Face to face you would not call people idiots don't do it here.

Well, you wound up exposing yourself. Keyboard warrior? It's a fact I'll never see you in person. Here's your invitation - come here and spend a week with me. If you still think I'm lying, I'll sell everything I have and join your wall worship. Spend a week here, look me in the eyes and spew that crap. If you have any modicum of honesty or decency, you can't do it.

I wish to God it were not true, but it is.

I'm calling your bluff - right here and right now. I'm going back to work for the moment and let you see if you can get the courage to see which of us is right.

 

[Flopper]

President Barack Obama: "Real reform means strong border security, and we can build on the progress my administration has already made — putting more boots on the Southern border than at any time in our history and reducing illegal crossings to their lowest levels in 40 years.”

Secretary Hillary Clinton: "I voted numerous times when I was a senator to spend money to build a barrier to try to prevent illegal immigrants from coming in. And I do think that you have to control your borders."

President Bill Clinton: "It is wrong and ultimately self-defeating for a nation of immigrants to permit the kind of abuse of our immigration laws we have seen in recent years, and we must do more to stop it."

You are only proving a point I've been making since I got on this thread. The Democrats adopted the political idea BEFORE Trump came along. It is not a conservative idea.

The talking points were pioneered by white supremacists and National Socialists back in the 1970s. So, I would presume you have a point?

It's true. In the 2000's us liberals were against illegal immigrants while 75% of the Republican party was arguing they were just here doing jobs Americans won't do. That's a lie.

Do a little math. The Bureau of Labor Statistics says there are 7.6 million unemployed Americans right now. Another 1.5 million Americans are no longer counted because they've become "long term" or "discouraged" unemployed workers. And although various groups have different ways of measuring it, most agree that at least another five to ten million Americans are either working part-time when they want to work full-time, or are "underemployed," doing jobs below their level of training, education, or experience. That's between eight and twenty million un- and under-employed Americans, many unable to find above-poverty-level work.

At the same time, there are between seven and fifteen million working illegal immigrants diluting our labor pool.

If illegal immigrants could no longer work, unions would flourish, the minimum wage would rise, and oligarchic nations to our south would have to confront and fix their corrupt ways.

Between the Reagan years - when there were only around 1 to 2 million illegal aliens in our workforce - and today, we've gone from about 25 percent of our private workforce being unionized to around seven percent. Much of this is the direct result - as César Chávez predicted - of illegal immigrants competing directly with unionized and legal labor. Although it's most obvious in the construction trades over the past 30 years, it's hit all sectors of our economy.

My math is simple:

I run ads on Craigslist, in community papers and list with the Dept. of Labor. People don't even show up for an interview.

I could give you the REAL reason this happens, but it would take more than twenty words and you would not admit it. I can show you a hundred people today under 40 that have never worked a job and they won't. Most of it is the fault of people who back bad legislation because you're wholly uninformed.

Pay more. Supply/Demand economics. What is the job?

I'm a minister with a jobs program. We have temp, temp to perm and permanent jobs in many fields from laborers to farm workers and from warehouse workers to construction / handymen positions.

Whites will not work the jobs.

Both parties have flip flopped on immigration depending on the issue. Dems supported 2006 fence act. Republicans opposed Clinton efforts to limit hiring illegals. Reagan supported amnesty for undocumented immigrants.

Operation Wetback in the 50s was initiated at the request of the Mexican government and was supported by both parties


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Slyhunter]

No, if you can't look around at the changes that have already occurred, that's your problem. BTW you asked me for a court case yesterday, I provided it and haven't acknowledged it.

.

You have to bear in mind that I'm on here supposedly "debating" at least six different people. What court case did you cite that you think means what? I do 80 wpm and can barely keep up. I miss a few posts.

you against the world, think maybe it's just you that is wrong?

WTH are you talking about? I am not debating or arguing with anyone on this thread. I have not taken a position other than stating the obvious: a wall will not solve any issues that the build the wall guys have put on the table. I'm asking questions and simply trying to figure out what is REALLY going on.

That is a position. You don't want the wall built because you think it won't work. It depends on what you intend to accomplish. To keep out the riff raff it will work. To put a big hurdle in drug imports it would work.

Do you have a mental problem? I've stated my reasons for not wanting a wall. I know damn well it will not work because, and let's make this big and bold for you:

AMERICA IS NOT MEXICO, CANADA OR CHINA. WE ARE NOT AT WAR WITH THE ISRAELIS. WE ARE NOT TRYING TO PROTECT OR PRESERVE THE POSTERITY OF THE FOUNDERS. AS A RESULT YOU BUILD THE WALL PEOPLE ARE APPLYING A SOLUTION THAT DOES NOT APPLY - AND I HAVE PROVEN UNEQUIVOCALLY, WALLS OVER TIME DO NOT WORK. I'M COMMITTED TO A PRACTICAL, HONEST AND PERMANENT SOLUTION.

If you would read posts # 3475 and # 3476 you can see my REAL objections to what you are proposing.

Walls keep out the riff raff. Walls do work.

 

[Slyhunter]

View attachment 238920

Great deflection, but here is my assessment about you (since that's all you got of all the discussion we've had)

1) Ray is agnostic, atheist, or something other than Christian. The dead giveaway is when people insist on using the word inalienable over unalienable. They have been interpreted differently by our courts. Inalienable rights are those which can be aliened IF YOU CONSENT.

Unalienable Rights are bestowed by a Creator, (your God, whomever you deem that to be.) Atheists believe that, at the end of the day, Rights are merely something other men give you. I'm not saying that is good or bad. It's just that Ray is not a Christian so the build the wall guys who choose to accept his arguments have a dilemma: they are equally yoked with the unbelieving

2) It is no secret that Ray would forfeit ANY AND ALL Liberties, Rights, and blessings for a wall

3) In Ray's world he honestly believes he can keep people out. This has NOTHING to do with any legal or moral argument for or against immigration. It is a pipe dream that could not be accomplished even when Jesus was walking this earth (references supplied in earlier posts)

4) Ray will use information in order to achieve his goal: keeping people from south of the border out. Oh he might play word games / semantics about a phony legal v. illegal nature, but his posts testify against the smoke and mirrors. He refuses to ask me one question as he prefers to present the pretext as a fact rather than ask me a simple question that he's danced around

5) Ray says he would like to preserve our culture. Albeit unpopular, our culture consists of a people that built a country on the twin pillars of race and religion. Ray rejects the religion, but lives under the delusion we can use a wall to force people out and reclaim the racial part of our heritage without the other part of our culture that made us great (i.e.a belief, as a nation, in God.)

Nothing more can come of any further debate / discussion. Anything he and I say to each other does not change where he stands. And I came on this thread looking for the REAL reason people worship the wall. Ray's logic does not make me want to trade off Essential Liberty for the promise of temporary Safety.

No immigration until every American who wants a job has a job that pays a living wage.

I'm not trying to be the bad guy, but that outlook is socialist. Rush Limbaugh said:

"If you want a “living wage,” if you don’t like what fast food restaurants pay, then do something else. It’s just that simple. Go to a trade school. Go to another business. Start your own business. Maybe the work that you are capable of isn’t yet worth $15 an hour at a fast-food restaurant. Maybe the consumer doesn’t want to pay $10 for a Big Mac so that people working at McDonald’s make $15 an hour. It’s not just a one-way strata.

You don’t just sit there and double what the employees at McDonald’s make and keep the prices the same. Now, you may think this is obvious, folks, and you may think, “Come on, Rush,” you’d be amazed at how many people do not understand the push-pull in economics. You’d be amazed at the number of people who have taken economics courses who think that the truth about headaches is that the boss is a cheap skinflint and wants his employees to starve and wants to screw his customers."

Minimum Wage: How Much is Too Much?

I don't work for McDonalds.
I'm as much a Conservative as Trump is and that would be not very much at all. Common sense for the working man he is and so am I.

Trump is NOT a conservative; he despises the Constitution; he thinks he's God and you would follow him into Hell. He just slapped "conservatives" with a bitch slap so hard that he's about to nullify that Constitution.

The minimum wage debate sparked the living wage debate and when Rush isn't evangelizing for Reverend Trump, he's cutting that living wage argument into shreds.

He's not about to nullify the Constitution.

 

[Slyhunter]

Did it ever occur to you that everybody wants things to make their job easier? Years ago I worked in a warehouse. The workers said they needed air conditioning in order to be as productive as management wanted.

The problem was putting AC in a warehouse would not work and it would have the energy bill sucking up a significant portion of the company's profits.

We are NOT talking border security with the wall. What you're talking about is an attempt to stop American citizens and the people from south of the border from engaging in mutually beneficial relationships. You'd be better served with some regulation. No surgeon ever recommended surgery for a runny nose.

#1) I had a similar situation and the owner did put in AC
#2) This is not a runny a nose, this is a constant bleed.
#3) I disagree this is mutual beneficial.

He doesn't seem to understand that's what ports of entry are for.

.

No, I don't understand what the relevance of it is. YOU don't know what the bottom line is as to what ports of entry are for... OR maybe you know, but are like Ray.

Very argumentative you are. Listen to counterpoints you don’t. Necessary border security is. Bad open borders are.

You need some new material. Reread this thread. I did not become "argumentative" for the first 200 posts that I was involved in it. My first 75 posts were in search of the REAL reasons people wanted the wall. When my patriotism was questioned by Ray, I told him game on. You need to STFU and read the thread before climbing my back with false allegations. We'll get along better if you read the whole story first. National Security is NOT one of the reasons cited in my first inquiries. It's just now being interjected because Trump alleges it. WTH, dude, you need government to save you from yourself?

See these exapmles: posts 2806, 3475, 3476, 3613, 3669 and 3731. Read those and then join the conversation.

The real reason we want the wall is to keep out the trash. You've been answered multiple times.