Why is Building the Wall Wrong?

[Ray From Cleveland]

And yet you stand by an employees past being hidden from an employer so the employer doesn't know what kind of jeopardy he or she is putting their company in. Wonderful.

That is a straight out LIE and you know it. I said no such thing. I also instructed you on how to find out about people via private sources.

I don't need your instruction about doing investigative searches on tenants. Your stance was that criminal records should be kept away from the public; particularly employers and landlords. If you challenge me on this, I'm on vacation and have the time, and I'll be happy to quote you on this and even provide a post number(s).

Use your time to research the Fourth Amendment and show us the AUTHORITY in the Constitution for the government to be able to give you that information. I've cited at least two United States Supreme Court decisions that refute your position.

You don't read the posts of others. At best you skim read it and then don't read the court rulings. That is WHY you're consistently wrong.

It has nothing to do with the fourth amendment. Your criminal records are not your personal property, it's governments property.

And the United States government has no Right or duty to share those records with anyone.

Nor are they restricted from it either. If a politician wants my vote, he or she better do what they can to not hide things from me that I need to know about.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Right. Isn't that the same guy who ran on welfare reform, and when it was finally introduced by THE REPUBLICAN CONGRESS, he vetoed the bill twice? Isn't it the same guy who was forced to sign it because the Republicans introduced it a third time right before his reelection bid?

All of that is irrelevant to immigration. I'm not a Democrat. You're grasping at straws with your off topic deflection.

There is nothing off topic about it. Democrats are born liars. As Limbaugh said repeatedly, when Democrats want to win elections, they talk like Republicans. The Democrats never wanted a wall. If they did, it would have been built in the first two years of Obama, or the first year of Clinton. Much like Welfare Reform, they simply state they are for it when they are really not.

But do tell (since you believe their BS) what Democrat President ever took action on building a wall? More importantly, what Republican ever fought a Democrat President from building one?

Starting to get the picture yet? If not, sleep on it, and maybe it will come to you.

You have a very limited (if any) capacity to see how politics work.

The objective of the NEW WORLD ORDER is to seize all the power and make resistance to tyranny an impossibility. Why stop at with just the wall when sheeple will screw themselves out of the Bill of Rights for the illusion of a win on the nutty wall idea? They win two fights for the price of one - and useful idiots will assist them in converting our Republic into the world's shining example of a POLICE STATE?

It's difficult to have a serious discussion with you Black Helicopter people. If you want to discuss issues, do it in reality, not television movies.

It's impossible to have a discussion with those of you who think Rush Limbaugh is an informed political strategist. He is an entertainer.

Then why do you keep bringing him up?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Plenty of liberals have used the exact same arguments. There are no new arguments in this debate. Either your for the wall or you're against it. In the latter case, you lie to support your position. That's the bottom line.

The only thing you have not lied about thus far is that you're either for the wall or against it.

I'm against it and know there are better ways to secure the border. Admit it, you don't care about anything but the wall. You'd sell your soul for a wall. You don't even know what's being traded off in order to get it built.

No liberal has ever quoted me; I've never quoted a liberal and they do NOT make the same arguments I do.

You and the liberals are both against the wall because a wall would work. What more do we need to know?

The wall would work to expand the POLICE POWERS of the state at the expense of our God given Rights; it will NOT work because the United States of America is not a communist country; however, after you get your silly wall it will be.

Only Communist countries secure their borders? And how would a wall change an entire system of government?

Guess what? I won't lose one right if we get that border wall.......not one. Which rights do you think you'd be losing?

Nobody builds walls today, because they don't work, and they have never worked in all of history. They give a false sense of security, though.

Only a idiot would spend $25 billion dollars on something that has never worked throughout history. Even in Biblical times, Joshua fought the battle of Jericho and the walls came tumbling down! Look at all of the people who escaped from East Berlin, despite the Wall. The Great Wall of China was abandoned after the Ming Dynasty, which built most of the Great Wall we see today, because the last army that overran the Great Wall and defeated them thought it was a waste of time and money.

Gated communities - only in America. They tried them in Canada and they were a "no sale". We're not afraid of our neighbours. But I am reminded of the Trayvon Martin case. It was a gated community and yet it had been plagued by break-ins. That's why Zimmerman was following Trayvon - because he suspected the kid was casing properties for break-ins. If walls keep the bad guys out, why was Zimmerman patrolling the neighbourhood at all?

Criminals like easy access to their targets. They want to get in and then get out quickly. Do gated communities work most times? Yes. All the time? Perhaps not. It really depends on the area.

Will a wall stop all illegals? No it won't. Will it reduce illegals and drugs to a more tolerable level, yes it will.

While you relish in ancient history, we in modern times know walls and borders do work.

Homeland Security secretary: Border walls work. Yuma sector proves it.

Where do Border Fences work? Everywhere

https://nypost.com/2018/01/13/we-already-have-a-border-wall-and-it-works/

Hungary credits razor wire border fence for almost 100 percent drop in illegal migration

 

[bripat9643]

Why is building a wall wrong?
1.) Why bother going to such drastic lengths to tackle a "problem" that's been on the decline? (See: Pew Research)
2.) Do the wall advocates realize there will never actually be a "full" wall? Recall the recent border fence and Landowner lawsuits. The Trump administration could use eminent domain to acquire the land but will have to negotiate compensation and WILL face lawsuits. More than 90 such lawsuits in southern Texas alone are still open from the effort to build a fence there.
3.) The wall isn't going to fix the drug problem. According to the DEA, most drugs come through legal ports of entry.
etc,etc,etc...

Trump has nothing to offer to ordinary Americans. Protection against predatory vultures, workers' bargaining powers, a healthy environment, a stable future for their kids, affordable (higher) education (etc.), there is nothing on the table. So, he lets himself be seen fighting like a lion against the imaginary Swamp, against the "establishment", to "protect" Americans against the "darkies" - their crime, disease, their drugs, and whatnot. A political ploy, and a boondoggle, campaign antics that have one major benefit: to be paid for by the taxpayers themselves.

What could be more alluring to the Trumpster Fire than that?

What a load of horseshit. I marvel at how you morons construct these fantasies based on a total lack of facts. Trump has reduced black unemployment to the lowest point it's ever been. Only a dumbass like you believes having a job is not important. I could go down your list of lies and deconstruct each one, but why bother? they are all obvious horseshit driven by hatred.

Trump didn't reduce black unemployment - Obama did that. The decline in the rate of unemployment for blacks has SLOWED under Trump. And the black unemployment rate is still more than double the rate for whites.

Everything positive in the Trump economy is riding the coattails of the Obama recovery. All of which is now disappearing under Trump. Job creation is slowed, and the stock market is now declining daily. Another two weeks of chaos and uncertainty like the past two weeks and all of the gains of the past two years will be wiped out.

The economy needs stability and certainty for planning and Trump provides neither. His policies have damaged the US economy for a generation to come. The deficit, the tax cuts, lunacy on the hoof. Now that recession is looming, you can't cuts taxes or increase spending, or do any of the things one would normally do to fight a recession, because Trump did them all in a growing economy. The only thing left is to start a war (always good for the economy), and that's not really a positive solution for anything.

You're not capable of "deconstructing" anybody's argument. You haven't the critical thinking ability to do so. All you can do is to repeat Trump's tweets and talking points - lies, distortions and completely fact-free.

Nothing could by more typically leftwing than giving Obama credit for stuff he isn't responsible for.

 

[bripat9643]

Plenty of liberals have used the exact same arguments. There are no new arguments in this debate. Either your for the wall or you're against it. In the latter case, you lie to support your position. That's the bottom line.

The only thing you have not lied about thus far is that you're either for the wall or against it.

I'm against it and know there are better ways to secure the border. Admit it, you don't care about anything but the wall. You'd sell your soul for a wall. You don't even know what's being traded off in order to get it built.

No liberal has ever quoted me; I've never quoted a liberal and they do NOT make the same arguments I do.

You and the liberals are both against the wall because a wall would work. What more do we need to know?

The wall would work to expand the POLICE POWERS of the state at the expense of our God given Rights; it will NOT work because the United States of America is not a communist country; however, after you get your silly wall it will be.

Only Communist countries secure their borders? And how would a wall change an entire system of government?

Guess what? I won't lose one right if we get that border wall.......not one. Which rights do you think you'd be losing?

What absolute dishonesty stupidity. Communists, dictators and PEOPLE AT WAR use walls. All others use other forms of solutions to resolve the problem and secure their borders.

Another leftwing argument. People have used walls to defend themselves for thousands of years. The Berlin wall is the only time a wall has been used to keep people in. Is Israel a communist dictatorship? Hungary?

You're just plain full of shit.

 

[Issa]

Drugs go through checkpoints, also most illegals came by plane by the way. That's why we keep telling you a wall is useless.

Hmmm. Makes you wonder how those border agencies make thousands of busts every year by the border.

It makes wonder also how some of those border agents make more than their salaries, and dozens got arrested.

Really? When?

Dude I keep telling you the primary problem with you guys, anti immigrants, pro trump I'd being ignorant of facts and you live ina bunnle....we lose our shit trying to explain to you but your fear and ignorance is blinding uou.
Here read the article, and don't tell me is fake news.

U.S. Border Agency Says Hundreds of Employees Have Been Arrested Over 2 Years

I couldn't get to the site because they want money which I'm not about the pay. So I did a Google search to find a credible news source reporting on the story as well, and can't find one. I did find a story from some internet site called Pogo.com, however I never heard of them before and it's likely they just parroted the NYT story.

But in that story their claim is that 200 agents (80 of them border patrol) were arrested since 2004. No elaboration on how many were charged or actually convicted and for what offense.

Wow just wow....so you only beleive fox news and trump?
I live in California and things like these are known, CBP officers get caught all the time.
Widen your sources and open your mind.

 

[ph3iron]

Why is building a wall wrong?
1.) Why bother going to such drastic lengths to tackle a "problem" that's been on the decline? (See: Pew Research)
2.) Do the wall advocates realize there will never actually be a "full" wall? Recall the recent border fence and Landowner lawsuits. The Trump administration could use eminent domain to acquire the land but will have to negotiate compensation and WILL face lawsuits. More than 90 such lawsuits in southern Texas alone are still open from the effort to build a fence there.
3.) The wall isn't going to fix the drug problem. According to the DEA, most drugs come through legal ports of entry.
etc,etc,etc...

Trump has nothing to offer to ordinary Americans. Protection against predatory vultures, workers' bargaining powers, a healthy environment, a stable future for their kids, affordable (higher) education (etc.), there is nothing on the table. So, he lets himself be seen fighting like a lion against the imaginary Swamp, against the "establishment", to "protect" Americans against the "darkies" - their crime, disease, their drugs, and whatnot. A political ploy, and a boondoggle, campaign antics that have one major benefit: to be paid for by the taxpayers themselves.

What could be more alluring to the Trumpster Fire than that?

What a load of horseshit. I marvel at how you morons construct these fantasies based on a total lack of facts. Trump has reduced black unemployment to the lowest point it's ever been. Only a dumbass like you believes having a job is not important. I could go down your list of lies and deconstruct each one, but why bother? they are all obvious horseshit driven by hatred.

Obviously don't know the def of "projection"
You do know the unemploymeat is following the 8 years of Obama?
And you never mention don has created fewer jobs in his 2 years than Obama did in his last 2?
Can you deconstruct that?

 

[ph3iron]

The only thing you have not lied about thus far is that you're either for the wall or against it.

I'm against it and know there are better ways to secure the border. Admit it, you don't care about anything but the wall. You'd sell your soul for a wall. You don't even know what's being traded off in order to get it built.

No liberal has ever quoted me; I've never quoted a liberal and they do NOT make the same arguments I do.

You and the liberals are both against the wall because a wall would work. What more do we need to know?

The wall would work to expand the POLICE POWERS of the state at the expense of our God given Rights; it will NOT work because the United States of America is not a communist country; however, after you get your silly wall it will be.

Only Communist countries secure their borders? And how would a wall change an entire system of government?

Guess what? I won't lose one right if we get that border wall.......not one. Which rights do you think you'd be losing?

What absolute dishonesty stupidity. Communists, dictators and PEOPLE AT WAR use walls. All others use other forms of solutions to resolve the problem and secure their borders.

Another leftwing argument. People have used walls to defend themselves for thousands of years. The Berlin wall is the only time a wall has been used to keep people in. Is Israel a communist dictatorship? Hungary?

You're just plain full of shit.

Nice foul mouth cowardly reply.
Looking forward to cowering behind it?
Detected any terrorists yet?
Only women and kids?
And apparently you don't know that first generation Italians, Germans, Asians all cost money.
2 nd and more add to our economy and your socialist benefits which I'm sure you are sucking off

 

[ph3iron]

I don't like to live in a country of cowards cowering behind a wall

Oh, that reverse psychology guilt trip thing again? You all tried that multiple times with gun discussions. When are you on the left going to realize that doesn't work? It's painfully transparent.

I've noticed that the pro-wall people are ALWAYS blaming the left for being against the nutty wall idea. The facts are that I am a Republican as are the majority of the people in the U.S. Senate. When push comes to shove, most Republicans are against the nutty wall idea.

Ray, you cannot come to grips with the fact that a wall is a socialist solution looking for a problem to solve. When people show you instances when a wall does not work, you are complaining about how far back into history the other poster went to prove the point. Even going back to BIBLICAL times, walls have not been long term solutions for much of anything.

Those, such as yourself, like wailing about the damn wall, but cannot tell us a single problem you're really addressing. If those with a few IQ points show you what's wrong with the pretext you rely on, you want to move the goal posts.

I really wish you would quit blaming opposition to the wall on the Republicans. The only reason most of them are supporting idea is in the best interests of party unity so that other legislation does not get bogged down AND the fix is in. Once the wall is fully funded and Donnie gets his win, you can kiss that gun in your avatar good-bye.

For everything you gain there is something lost. Trump isn't God. He is playing the Art of the Deal. You're simply too ignorant to ask what the real cost - not in terms of dollars and cents, but in terms of legislation (legislation that will affect YOUR Liberties) does this nutty and INEFFECTIVE wall idea cost.

Mr. Rockwell, I appreciate your concern and acknowledge your humanitarian side, but please read the rest of the watchdog's article of which I am quoting before you go too far down the road to letting sidewinders such easy access to the tax money we are presently paying if you have a few minutes:

Analysis: Illegal immigrants cost taxpayers $116 billion annually ​

With ongoing violent protests in favor of amnesty for illegal aliens, immigration reformer advocates point to exponential costs taxpayers already pay for illegal immigrants, and how much more taxpayers would spend if they were given amnesty.

According to the most recent analysis by the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), one illegal immigrant living in America today costs U.S. citizen taxpayers about $8,075. In total, illegal aliens cost American taxpayers $116 billion annually.

FAIR researchers note the increasing costs of illegal immigration is a “disturbing and unsustainable trend.” Costs to taxpayers have risen by nearly $3 billion since 2013, when illegal aliens’ total cost to taxpayers was $113 billion, according to FAIR.

The rest of the story: Analysis: Illegal immigrants cost taxpayers $116 billion annually
​

$116,000,000,000/ 300,000,000 = $387.00 for every man, woman, and child living in this country right now, and half of them either have no income or are living on welfare, student loans, off their parents, or whatever, which doubles the ante to $773.00 for everyone earning wages. Why do people who work within the poverty status having to pay a noncitizen to get free housing, free food, free education, free utilities, free telephones, and everything else?

And if the government fixes it and poverty status taxpayers don't see a rise in their taxes, that leaves working parents trying to raise a family that omission, which means, they're having to pay about $5,000 apiece for this anomaly rather than save that for a rainy day or give donations to libraries, churches, museums, and other charitable causes.

Maybe my math isn't 100% perfect, but it could be low ball if we're forgetting other things than watchdog.org has discovered. The math doesn't lie.

Edit: One hundred and sixteen billion a year is what we're paying

​

I don't play to the humanitarian side. I've already exposed WHO the organizations you cite really are. A mind is like a parachute. It only operates when it's open.

The build the wall advocates make an idiotic claim about how much so called illegal aliens "cost," but they NEVER examine the other side of the ledger in order to understand why they are here. The reason I call their method idiotic is that it is BLATANTLY dishonest as if the rest of society is too stupid to examine the three most important facts:

1) As much as it makes Tea Party Republicans cringe, there are two sides of an accounting ledger and the supposed facts you cite do not figure in how much foreign labor contributes and how much wealth they create

2) The people on this thread, advocating for the wall, fight tooth and nail against the effort to rehabilitate those who are disenfranchised and get them working so that there is less demand for foreign labor

3) Tea Party Republicans want to keep a segment of their own people locked out of society and then blame the people that take the jobs Americans CANNOT take due to double minded people that want to keep some Americans from getting a job AND denying employers their unalienable Right to hire the person they want to hire for the job.

Even if they are "rehabilitated," they are still going to take a job that would otherwise go to a native born American. The are also going to create downward pressure on wages since they are will to work for a much lower wage than most Americans.

Employers have no "unalienable right" to hire people who are not in this country legally.

Ones pics say it all.
But I'll try to be patient.
Italians, Germans, Asians and now Latinos all cost the first year.
All subsequent years they contribute way more than our old white farts here sucking off their socialist benefits

 

[bripat9643]

Oh, that reverse psychology guilt trip thing again? You all tried that multiple times with gun discussions. When are you on the left going to realize that doesn't work? It's painfully transparent.

I've noticed that the pro-wall people are ALWAYS blaming the left for being against the nutty wall idea. The facts are that I am a Republican as are the majority of the people in the U.S. Senate. When push comes to shove, most Republicans are against the nutty wall idea.

Ray, you cannot come to grips with the fact that a wall is a socialist solution looking for a problem to solve. When people show you instances when a wall does not work, you are complaining about how far back into history the other poster went to prove the point. Even going back to BIBLICAL times, walls have not been long term solutions for much of anything.

Those, such as yourself, like wailing about the damn wall, but cannot tell us a single problem you're really addressing. If those with a few IQ points show you what's wrong with the pretext you rely on, you want to move the goal posts.

I really wish you would quit blaming opposition to the wall on the Republicans. The only reason most of them are supporting idea is in the best interests of party unity so that other legislation does not get bogged down AND the fix is in. Once the wall is fully funded and Donnie gets his win, you can kiss that gun in your avatar good-bye.

For everything you gain there is something lost. Trump isn't God. He is playing the Art of the Deal. You're simply too ignorant to ask what the real cost - not in terms of dollars and cents, but in terms of legislation (legislation that will affect YOUR Liberties) does this nutty and INEFFECTIVE wall idea cost.

Mr. Rockwell, I appreciate your concern and acknowledge your humanitarian side, but please read the rest of the watchdog's article of which I am quoting before you go too far down the road to letting sidewinders such easy access to the tax money we are presently paying if you have a few minutes:

Analysis: Illegal immigrants cost taxpayers $116 billion annually ​

With ongoing violent protests in favor of amnesty for illegal aliens, immigration reformer advocates point to exponential costs taxpayers already pay for illegal immigrants, and how much more taxpayers would spend if they were given amnesty.

According to the most recent analysis by the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), one illegal immigrant living in America today costs U.S. citizen taxpayers about $8,075. In total, illegal aliens cost American taxpayers $116 billion annually.

FAIR researchers note the increasing costs of illegal immigration is a “disturbing and unsustainable trend.” Costs to taxpayers have risen by nearly $3 billion since 2013, when illegal aliens’ total cost to taxpayers was $113 billion, according to FAIR.

The rest of the story: Analysis: Illegal immigrants cost taxpayers $116 billion annually
​

$116,000,000,000/ 300,000,000 = $387.00 for every man, woman, and child living in this country right now, and half of them either have no income or are living on welfare, student loans, off their parents, or whatever, which doubles the ante to $773.00 for everyone earning wages. Why do people who work within the poverty status having to pay a noncitizen to get free housing, free food, free education, free utilities, free telephones, and everything else?

And if the government fixes it and poverty status taxpayers don't see a rise in their taxes, that leaves working parents trying to raise a family that omission, which means, they're having to pay about $5,000 apiece for this anomaly rather than save that for a rainy day or give donations to libraries, churches, museums, and other charitable causes.

Maybe my math isn't 100% perfect, but it could be low ball if we're forgetting other things than watchdog.org has discovered. The math doesn't lie.

Edit: One hundred and sixteen billion a year is what we're paying

​

I don't play to the humanitarian side. I've already exposed WHO the organizations you cite really are. A mind is like a parachute. It only operates when it's open.

The build the wall advocates make an idiotic claim about how much so called illegal aliens "cost," but they NEVER examine the other side of the ledger in order to understand why they are here. The reason I call their method idiotic is that it is BLATANTLY dishonest as if the rest of society is too stupid to examine the three most important facts:

1) As much as it makes Tea Party Republicans cringe, there are two sides of an accounting ledger and the supposed facts you cite do not figure in how much foreign labor contributes and how much wealth they create

2) The people on this thread, advocating for the wall, fight tooth and nail against the effort to rehabilitate those who are disenfranchised and get them working so that there is less demand for foreign labor

3) Tea Party Republicans want to keep a segment of their own people locked out of society and then blame the people that take the jobs Americans CANNOT take due to double minded people that want to keep some Americans from getting a job AND denying employers their unalienable Right to hire the person they want to hire for the job.

Even if they are "rehabilitated," they are still going to take a job that would otherwise go to a native born American. The are also going to create downward pressure on wages since they are will to work for a much lower wage than most Americans.

Employers have no "unalienable right" to hire people who are not in this country legally.

Ones pics say it all.
But I'll try to be patient.
Italians, Germans, Asians and now Latinos all cost the first year.
All subsequent years they contribute way more than our old white farts here sucking off their socialist benefits

Wrong, asshole. We didn't have welfare, public schools, and government healthcare when the Italians and Germans came here.

 

[danielpalos]

I've noticed that the pro-wall people are ALWAYS blaming the left for being against the nutty wall idea. The facts are that I am a Republican as are the majority of the people in the U.S. Senate. When push comes to shove, most Republicans are against the nutty wall idea.

Ray, you cannot come to grips with the fact that a wall is a socialist solution looking for a problem to solve. When people show you instances when a wall does not work, you are complaining about how far back into history the other poster went to prove the point. Even going back to BIBLICAL times, walls have not been long term solutions for much of anything.

Those, such as yourself, like wailing about the damn wall, but cannot tell us a single problem you're really addressing. If those with a few IQ points show you what's wrong with the pretext you rely on, you want to move the goal posts.

I really wish you would quit blaming opposition to the wall on the Republicans. The only reason most of them are supporting idea is in the best interests of party unity so that other legislation does not get bogged down AND the fix is in. Once the wall is fully funded and Donnie gets his win, you can kiss that gun in your avatar good-bye.

For everything you gain there is something lost. Trump isn't God. He is playing the Art of the Deal. You're simply too ignorant to ask what the real cost - not in terms of dollars and cents, but in terms of legislation (legislation that will affect YOUR Liberties) does this nutty and INEFFECTIVE wall idea cost.

Mr. Rockwell, I appreciate your concern and acknowledge your humanitarian side, but please read the rest of the watchdog's article of which I am quoting before you go too far down the road to letting sidewinders such easy access to the tax money we are presently paying if you have a few minutes:

Analysis: Illegal immigrants cost taxpayers $116 billion annually ​

With ongoing violent protests in favor of amnesty for illegal aliens, immigration reformer advocates point to exponential costs taxpayers already pay for illegal immigrants, and how much more taxpayers would spend if they were given amnesty.

According to the most recent analysis by the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), one illegal immigrant living in America today costs U.S. citizen taxpayers about $8,075. In total, illegal aliens cost American taxpayers $116 billion annually.

FAIR researchers note the increasing costs of illegal immigration is a “disturbing and unsustainable trend.” Costs to taxpayers have risen by nearly $3 billion since 2013, when illegal aliens’ total cost to taxpayers was $113 billion, according to FAIR.

The rest of the story: Analysis: Illegal immigrants cost taxpayers $116 billion annually
​

$116,000,000,000/ 300,000,000 = $387.00 for every man, woman, and child living in this country right now, and half of them either have no income or are living on welfare, student loans, off their parents, or whatever, which doubles the ante to $773.00 for everyone earning wages. Why do people who work within the poverty status having to pay a noncitizen to get free housing, free food, free education, free utilities, free telephones, and everything else?

And if the government fixes it and poverty status taxpayers don't see a rise in their taxes, that leaves working parents trying to raise a family that omission, which means, they're having to pay about $5,000 apiece for this anomaly rather than save that for a rainy day or give donations to libraries, churches, museums, and other charitable causes.

Maybe my math isn't 100% perfect, but it could be low ball if we're forgetting other things than watchdog.org has discovered. The math doesn't lie.

Edit: One hundred and sixteen billion a year is what we're paying

​

I don't play to the humanitarian side. I've already exposed WHO the organizations you cite really are. A mind is like a parachute. It only operates when it's open.

The build the wall advocates make an idiotic claim about how much so called illegal aliens "cost," but they NEVER examine the other side of the ledger in order to understand why they are here. The reason I call their method idiotic is that it is BLATANTLY dishonest as if the rest of society is too stupid to examine the three most important facts:

1) As much as it makes Tea Party Republicans cringe, there are two sides of an accounting ledger and the supposed facts you cite do not figure in how much foreign labor contributes and how much wealth they create

2) The people on this thread, advocating for the wall, fight tooth and nail against the effort to rehabilitate those who are disenfranchised and get them working so that there is less demand for foreign labor

3) Tea Party Republicans want to keep a segment of their own people locked out of society and then blame the people that take the jobs Americans CANNOT take due to double minded people that want to keep some Americans from getting a job AND denying employers their unalienable Right to hire the person they want to hire for the job.

Even if they are "rehabilitated," they are still going to take a job that would otherwise go to a native born American. The are also going to create downward pressure on wages since they are will to work for a much lower wage than most Americans.

Employers have no "unalienable right" to hire people who are not in this country legally.

Ones pics say it all.
But I'll try to be patient.
Italians, Germans, Asians and now Latinos all cost the first year.
All subsequent years they contribute way more than our old white farts here sucking off their socialist benefits

Wrong, asshole. We didn't have welfare, public schools, and government healthcare when the Italians and Germans came here.

we didn't have a Great Depression, either or world wars.

 

[bripat9643]

Why is building a wall wrong?
1.) Why bother going to such drastic lengths to tackle a "problem" that's been on the decline? (See: Pew Research)
2.) Do the wall advocates realize there will never actually be a "full" wall? Recall the recent border fence and Landowner lawsuits. The Trump administration could use eminent domain to acquire the land but will have to negotiate compensation and WILL face lawsuits. More than 90 such lawsuits in southern Texas alone are still open from the effort to build a fence there.
3.) The wall isn't going to fix the drug problem. According to the DEA, most drugs come through legal ports of entry.
etc,etc,etc...

Trump has nothing to offer to ordinary Americans. Protection against predatory vultures, workers' bargaining powers, a healthy environment, a stable future for their kids, affordable (higher) education (etc.), there is nothing on the table. So, he lets himself be seen fighting like a lion against the imaginary Swamp, against the "establishment", to "protect" Americans against the "darkies" - their crime, disease, their drugs, and whatnot. A political ploy, and a boondoggle, campaign antics that have one major benefit: to be paid for by the taxpayers themselves.

What could be more alluring to the Trumpster Fire than that?

What a load of horseshit. I marvel at how you morons construct these fantasies based on a total lack of facts. Trump has reduced black unemployment to the lowest point it's ever been. Only a dumbass like you believes having a job is not important. I could go down your list of lies and deconstruct each one, but why bother? they are all obvious horseshit driven by hatred.

Obviously don't know the def of "projection"
You do know the unemploymeat is following the 8 years of Obama?
And you never mention don has created fewer jobs in his 2 years than Obama did in his last 2?
Can you deconstruct that?

Projection is accurate about 1% of the time. In 2007 the analysts were all saying the real estate boom would continue for the foreseeable future.

 

[bripat9643]

Mr. Rockwell, I appreciate your concern and acknowledge your humanitarian side, but please read the rest of the watchdog's article of which I am quoting before you go too far down the road to letting sidewinders such easy access to the tax money we are presently paying if you have a few minutes:

Analysis: Illegal immigrants cost taxpayers $116 billion annually ​

With ongoing violent protests in favor of amnesty for illegal aliens, immigration reformer advocates point to exponential costs taxpayers already pay for illegal immigrants, and how much more taxpayers would spend if they were given amnesty.

According to the most recent analysis by the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), one illegal immigrant living in America today costs U.S. citizen taxpayers about $8,075. In total, illegal aliens cost American taxpayers $116 billion annually.

FAIR researchers note the increasing costs of illegal immigration is a “disturbing and unsustainable trend.” Costs to taxpayers have risen by nearly $3 billion since 2013, when illegal aliens’ total cost to taxpayers was $113 billion, according to FAIR.

The rest of the story: Analysis: Illegal immigrants cost taxpayers $116 billion annually
​

$116,000,000,000/ 300,000,000 = $387.00 for every man, woman, and child living in this country right now, and half of them either have no income or are living on welfare, student loans, off their parents, or whatever, which doubles the ante to $773.00 for everyone earning wages. Why do people who work within the poverty status having to pay a noncitizen to get free housing, free food, free education, free utilities, free telephones, and everything else?

And if the government fixes it and poverty status taxpayers don't see a rise in their taxes, that leaves working parents trying to raise a family that omission, which means, they're having to pay about $5,000 apiece for this anomaly rather than save that for a rainy day or give donations to libraries, churches, museums, and other charitable causes.

Maybe my math isn't 100% perfect, but it could be low ball if we're forgetting other things than watchdog.org has discovered. The math doesn't lie.

Edit: One hundred and sixteen billion a year is what we're paying

​

I don't play to the humanitarian side. I've already exposed WHO the organizations you cite really are. A mind is like a parachute. It only operates when it's open.

The build the wall advocates make an idiotic claim about how much so called illegal aliens "cost," but they NEVER examine the other side of the ledger in order to understand why they are here. The reason I call their method idiotic is that it is BLATANTLY dishonest as if the rest of society is too stupid to examine the three most important facts:

1) As much as it makes Tea Party Republicans cringe, there are two sides of an accounting ledger and the supposed facts you cite do not figure in how much foreign labor contributes and how much wealth they create

2) The people on this thread, advocating for the wall, fight tooth and nail against the effort to rehabilitate those who are disenfranchised and get them working so that there is less demand for foreign labor

3) Tea Party Republicans want to keep a segment of their own people locked out of society and then blame the people that take the jobs Americans CANNOT take due to double minded people that want to keep some Americans from getting a job AND denying employers their unalienable Right to hire the person they want to hire for the job.

Even if they are "rehabilitated," they are still going to take a job that would otherwise go to a native born American. The are also going to create downward pressure on wages since they are will to work for a much lower wage than most Americans.

Employers have no "unalienable right" to hire people who are not in this country legally.

Ones pics say it all.
But I'll try to be patient.
Italians, Germans, Asians and now Latinos all cost the first year.
All subsequent years they contribute way more than our old white farts here sucking off their socialist benefits

Wrong, asshole. We didn't have welfare, public schools, and government healthcare when the Italians and Germans came here.

we didn't have a Great Depression, either or world wars.

What's your point?

 

[toobfreak]

You Russians REALLY want that wall.

I have less Russian in me than Liz Warren has Indian blood, you twit.

First off, not wanting to waste money on a 4th Century solution

If it's An outmoded 4th century solution, then why is it used around every gated community, every jail, and every home? Do you lock your door at night? Congrats you Twit, you've just proven as has 10 billion other places that walls and locks KEEP PEOPLE THE FUCK OUT.

After our wall/fence thingy keeps out 95+% of the intruders, it will be far cheaper and easier to deal with the remainder. Meantime, that will be hundreds of thousands each year we don't need to spend money on processing through our legal system, courts, jails, hospitals, kitchens, and other facilities, you fucking Twit.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Why is building a wall wrong?
1.) Why bother going to such drastic lengths to tackle a "problem" that's been on the decline? (See: Pew Research)
2.) Do the wall advocates realize there will never actually be a "full" wall? Recall the recent border fence and Landowner lawsuits. The Trump administration could use eminent domain to acquire the land but will have to negotiate compensation and WILL face lawsuits. More than 90 such lawsuits in southern Texas alone are still open from the effort to build a fence there.
3.) The wall isn't going to fix the drug problem. According to the DEA, most drugs come through legal ports of entry.
etc,etc,etc...

Trump has nothing to offer to ordinary Americans. Protection against predatory vultures, workers' bargaining powers, a healthy environment, a stable future for their kids, affordable (higher) education (etc.), there is nothing on the table. So, he lets himself be seen fighting like a lion against the imaginary Swamp, against the "establishment", to "protect" Americans against the "darkies" - their crime, disease, their drugs, and whatnot. A political ploy, and a boondoggle, campaign antics that have one major benefit: to be paid for by the taxpayers themselves.

What could be more alluring to the Trumpster Fire than that?

What a load of horseshit. I marvel at how you morons construct these fantasies based on a total lack of facts. Trump has reduced black unemployment to the lowest point it's ever been. Only a dumbass like you believes having a job is not important. I could go down your list of lies and deconstruct each one, but why bother? they are all obvious horseshit driven by hatred.

Obviously don't know the def of "projection"
You do know the unemploymeat is following the 8 years of Obama?
And you never mention don has created fewer jobs in his 2 years than Obama did in his last 2?
Can you deconstruct that?

Presidents don't create jobs--the private sector does. All a President can do is make it more or less inviting for the private sector TO create those jobs. Hussein was the most anti-business President in our lifetime. So he deserves zero credit.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Hmmm. Makes you wonder how those border agencies make thousands of busts every year by the border.

It makes wonder also how some of those border agents make more than their salaries, and dozens got arrested.

Really? When?

Dude I keep telling you the primary problem with you guys, anti immigrants, pro trump I'd being ignorant of facts and you live ina bunnle....we lose our shit trying to explain to you but your fear and ignorance is blinding uou.
Here read the article, and don't tell me is fake news.

U.S. Border Agency Says Hundreds of Employees Have Been Arrested Over 2 Years

I couldn't get to the site because they want money which I'm not about the pay. So I did a Google search to find a credible news source reporting on the story as well, and can't find one. I did find a story from some internet site called Pogo.com, however I never heard of them before and it's likely they just parroted the NYT story.

But in that story their claim is that 200 agents (80 of them border patrol) were arrested since 2004. No elaboration on how many were charged or actually convicted and for what offense.

Wow just wow....so you only beleive fox news and trump?
I live in California and things like these are known, CBP officers get caught all the time.
Widen your sources and open your mind.

Well according to what I read, it's about 200 in 14 years. That boils down to about 14 per year, so I wouldn't say all the time. And again, I couldn't find anything on conviction rate either.

In other words, we probably have more bad cops in the country than that. So because we do, is that any reason to not have a police force in this country?

 

[Porter Rockwell]

That is a straight out LIE and you know it. I said no such thing. I also instructed you on how to find out about people via private sources.

I don't need your instruction about doing investigative searches on tenants. Your stance was that criminal records should be kept away from the public; particularly employers and landlords. If you challenge me on this, I'm on vacation and have the time, and I'll be happy to quote you on this and even provide a post number(s).

Use your time to research the Fourth Amendment and show us the AUTHORITY in the Constitution for the government to be able to give you that information. I've cited at least two United States Supreme Court decisions that refute your position.

You don't read the posts of others. At best you skim read it and then don't read the court rulings. That is WHY you're consistently wrong.

It has nothing to do with the fourth amendment. Your criminal records are not your personal property, it's governments property.

And the United States government has no Right or duty to share those records with anyone.

Nor are they restricted from it either. If a politician wants my vote, he or she better do what they can to not hide things from me that I need to know about.

Yes, they ARE restricted. That is why you have a Fourth Amendment. You simply want to circumvent it with a records search without a warrant via a proxy.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

All of that is irrelevant to immigration. I'm not a Democrat. You're grasping at straws with your off topic deflection.

There is nothing off topic about it. Democrats are born liars. As Limbaugh said repeatedly, when Democrats want to win elections, they talk like Republicans. The Democrats never wanted a wall. If they did, it would have been built in the first two years of Obama, or the first year of Clinton. Much like Welfare Reform, they simply state they are for it when they are really not.

But do tell (since you believe their BS) what Democrat President ever took action on building a wall? More importantly, what Republican ever fought a Democrat President from building one?

Starting to get the picture yet? If not, sleep on it, and maybe it will come to you.

You have a very limited (if any) capacity to see how politics work.

The objective of the NEW WORLD ORDER is to seize all the power and make resistance to tyranny an impossibility. Why stop at with just the wall when sheeple will screw themselves out of the Bill of Rights for the illusion of a win on the nutty wall idea? They win two fights for the price of one - and useful idiots will assist them in converting our Republic into the world's shining example of a POLICE STATE?

It's difficult to have a serious discussion with you Black Helicopter people. If you want to discuss issues, do it in reality, not television movies.

It's impossible to have a discussion with those of you who think Rush Limbaugh is an informed political strategist. He is an entertainer.

Then why do you keep bringing him up?

You sound like a parakeet, always rehashing what Hush Bimbo said.

The only thing you have not lied about thus far is that you're either for the wall or against it.

I'm against it and know there are better ways to secure the border. Admit it, you don't care about anything but the wall. You'd sell your soul for a wall. You don't even know what's being traded off in order to get it built.

No liberal has ever quoted me; I've never quoted a liberal and they do NOT make the same arguments I do.

You and the liberals are both against the wall because a wall would work. What more do we need to know?

The wall would work to expand the POLICE POWERS of the state at the expense of our God given Rights; it will NOT work because the United States of America is not a communist country; however, after you get your silly wall it will be.

Only Communist countries secure their borders? And how would a wall change an entire system of government?

Guess what? I won't lose one right if we get that border wall.......not one. Which rights do you think you'd be losing?

Nobody builds walls today, because they don't work, and they have never worked in all of history. They give a false sense of security, though.

Only a idiot would spend $25 billion dollars on something that has never worked throughout history. Even in Biblical times, Joshua fought the battle of Jericho and the walls came tumbling down! Look at all of the people who escaped from East Berlin, despite the Wall. The Great Wall of China was abandoned after the Ming Dynasty, which built most of the Great Wall we see today, because the last army that overran the Great Wall and defeated them thought it was a waste of time and money.

Gated communities - only in America. They tried them in Canada and they were a "no sale". We're not afraid of our neighbours. But I am reminded of the Trayvon Martin case. It was a gated community and yet it had been plagued by break-ins. That's why Zimmerman was following Trayvon - because he suspected the kid was casing properties for break-ins. If walls keep the bad guys out, why was Zimmerman patrolling the neighbourhood at all?

Criminals like easy access to their targets. They want to get in and then get out quickly. Do gated communities work most times? Yes. All the time? Perhaps not. It really depends on the area.

Will a wall stop all illegals? No it won't. Will it reduce illegals and drugs to a more tolerable level, yes it will.

While you relish in ancient history, we in modern times know walls and borders do work.

Homeland Security secretary: Border walls work. Yuma sector proves it.

Where do Border Fences work? Everywhere

https://nypost.com/2018/01/13/we-already-have-a-border-wall-and-it-works/

Hungary credits razor wire border fence for almost 100 percent drop in illegal migration

What your sources are not revealing is that they took OTHER precautions - which you conveniently ignore.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

The only thing you have not lied about thus far is that you're either for the wall or against it.

I'm against it and know there are better ways to secure the border. Admit it, you don't care about anything but the wall. You'd sell your soul for a wall. You don't even know what's being traded off in order to get it built.

No liberal has ever quoted me; I've never quoted a liberal and they do NOT make the same arguments I do.

You and the liberals are both against the wall because a wall would work. What more do we need to know?

The wall would work to expand the POLICE POWERS of the state at the expense of our God given Rights; it will NOT work because the United States of America is not a communist country; however, after you get your silly wall it will be.

Only Communist countries secure their borders? And how would a wall change an entire system of government?

Guess what? I won't lose one right if we get that border wall.......not one. Which rights do you think you'd be losing?

What absolute dishonesty stupidity. Communists, dictators and PEOPLE AT WAR use walls. All others use other forms of solutions to resolve the problem and secure their borders.

Another leftwing argument. People have used walls to defend themselves for thousands of years. The Berlin wall is the only time a wall has been used to keep people in. Is Israel a communist dictatorship? Hungary?

You're just plain full of shit.

You're full of shit because you're LYING. Got it? I did not say that the Israelis are communists. Neither did I imply that "only" communist countries employed walls. Quit lying about what I said. Give the FULL quote.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

You and the liberals are both against the wall because a wall would work. What more do we need to know?

The wall would work to expand the POLICE POWERS of the state at the expense of our God given Rights; it will NOT work because the United States of America is not a communist country; however, after you get your silly wall it will be.

Only Communist countries secure their borders? And how would a wall change an entire system of government?

Guess what? I won't lose one right if we get that border wall.......not one. Which rights do you think you'd be losing?

What absolute dishonesty stupidity. Communists, dictators and PEOPLE AT WAR use walls. All others use other forms of solutions to resolve the problem and secure their borders.

Another leftwing argument. People have used walls to defend themselves for thousands of years. The Berlin wall is the only time a wall has been used to keep people in. Is Israel a communist dictatorship? Hungary?

You're just plain full of shit.

Nice foul mouth cowardly reply.
Looking forward to cowering behind it?
Detected any terrorists yet?
Only women and kids?
And apparently you don't know that first generation Italians, Germans, Asians all cost money.
2 nd and more add to our economy and your socialist benefits which I'm sure you are sucking off

Most of those who want the wall spend an inordinate amount of time trying to sell you on it... as if it were a religion. I think you hit the nail on the head. Most of them probably ARE getting a government check.