Why is it so important to atheists to evangelize?

[jeffrockit]

Not true.. I once talked a preist down..I helped him come to his senses....he quit religion and thanked me for the help.

Nice story but no one can bring someone to Christ nor can they take them away. Becoming a believer happens when the holy spirit moves one to make a commitment to accept Christ as their Lord and Savior. It is an individual choice made by that one individual. That is the reason behind free will. If it makes you feel better to believe you helped someone get out of religion, go for it.
As I have stated many times, If I am wrong about God, Jesus and salvation, I have lost nothing by being a Christian, as my life has been great. If you are wrong...well an eternity is a long time.

True story. What do you think? Everyone is stupid except you? No one is born into this world pre destined to be a christian. They are indoctrinated and propagandised. Their is no god and no one gets saved by a guy that may or may not have existed 2000 years ago. You are either an idiot or a liar..lying mostly to yourself. Free will? PUUULLEEEZZZ!!! You think taking a child to a church where they are lead to believe they will burn in hell for eternity if they don't buy into your bullshit is free will? This is why I hate you willfully ignorant fucks. You are all liars. You are all perpetuating a fraud. What you are doing is unexcusable and cowardly. If you were so sure about your god and free will was so important you would allow no indoctrination untill your kids were of age where they could "come to jesus" by choice. FREE CHOICE MY ASS! Christians are liars and snakes.

That is simply your opinion. I am done with you as I do not debate infantile name callers or those who think that swearing is a way to make a point in the debate. Those are both tools of the weak minded that have no argument.
BTW, If you look back over the thread, you will find no where I belittled your non belief or chose to call you names. Where in my posts did I state everyone is stupid but myself? Are you projecting your own thoughts on me? Where did I state that people are pre destined to become Christian? You continue to accuse me of stating things I did not. No matter, If that's what you need to feel good about yourself... I'm not sure why non-believers are so angry but have a pretty good idea.
So you "Hate" Christians? What a terrible way to go through life all hate filled and angry. I choose to be happy in life and I refuse to let those with differing opinions change that. You have a great life filled with anger and hate.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Nobody wants to feel powered over.

 

[THE LIGHT]

Not true.. I once talked a preist down..I helped him come to his senses....he quit religion and thanked me for the help.

Nice story but no one can bring someone to Christ nor can they take them away. Becoming a believer happens when the holy spirit moves one to make a commitment to accept Christ as their Lord and Savior. It is an individual choice made by that one individual. That is the reason behind free will. If it makes you feel better to believe you helped someone get out of religion, go for it.
As I have stated many times, If I am wrong about God, Jesus and salvation, I have lost nothing by being a Christian, as my life has been great. If you are wrong...well an eternity is a long time.

True story. What do you think? Everyone is stupid except you? No one is born into this world pre destined to be a christian. They are indoctrinated and propagandised.

Nor is anyone born into this world an atheist either. They are propagandized to become an atheist just the same. As you so excellently put it...

Not true.. I once talked a preist down..I helped him come to his senses....he quit religion and thanked me for the help.

You are doing such a good job proving the point of my OP that I should make you the thread mascot.

Their is no god and no one gets saved by a guy that may or may not have existed 2000 years ago.

You are entitled to your belief.

You are either an idiot or a liar..lying mostly to yourself. Free will? PUUULLEEEZZZ!!!

Yes, you and I both have a free will. You have chosen not to believe and I have chosen to believe. We both were free to make those choices. Neither one of us were born with a fixed notion of what choices we had to make.

You think taking a child to a church where they are lead to believe they will burn in hell for eternity if they don't buy into your bullshit is free will?

You think sending a child to school were they are told that it is okay to have two daddies or two mommies is free will? You think sending a child to school were they are told to believe that they came from an ape-like ancestor is free will? You think sending a child to school were they are not allowed to pray is free will?

This is why I hate you willfully ignorant fucks.

Why? because I don't believe the way you want me to believe? Now who was it again that just had a tantrum over not being forced to believe a certain way?

You are all liars.

Because you say so. You define what the truth is, I know... because you are the god of YOUR universe.

You are all perpetuating a fraud. What you are doing is inexcusable and cowardly. If you were so sure about your god and free will was so important you would allow no indoctrination untill your kids were of age where they could "come to jesus" by choice.

Many people HAVE come to the Lord Jesus Christ as adults so don't give me that pathetic excuse. Christians are training their children up in the truth just as you indoctrinate your children in your atheistic beliefs.

 

[THE LIGHT]

Why is it important that atheists have a voice? Because they have just as much entitlement to free speech as the next guy or gal. Christians evanegliize why not atheists?

The question is not "should they be allowed to?" because of course they should, but the real question is "why should they do it?" and if they are going to why just do it in rebuttal to Jesus, why not through Santa and the easter bunny in the mix as well? Defeat dem sucka's that don't exist. Stamp em out. Hoorah!


And btw, Christians are persecuted for evangelizing while atheists are not.

 

[pinqy]

Nor is anyone born into this world an atheist either.

Actually, they are. No infant or child believes in any god until they are either told about one or invents some kind of explanation later.

You think sending a child to school were they are told that it is okay to have two daddies or two mommies is free will?

I do. Do you think that if they were told it's not ok, that that would be free will?

You think sending a child to school were they are told to believe that they came from an ape-like ancestor is free will?

Actually, they're not told to believe it, they're told that that's what empirical science and all the evidence points to.

You think sending a child to school were they are not allowed to pray is free will

Which school doesn't allow children to pray.




Why? because I don't believe the way you want me to believe? Now who was it again that just had a tantrum over not being forced to believe a certain way?

You are all liars.

Because you say so. You define what the truth is, I know... because you are the god of YOUR universe.

You are all perpetuating a fraud. What you are doing is inexcusable and cowardly. If you were so sure about your god and free will was so important you would allow no indoctrination untill your kids were of age where they could "come to jesus" by choice.

Many people HAVE come to the Lord Jesus Christ as adults so don't give me that pathetic excuse. Christians are training their children up in the truth just as you indoctrinate your children in your atheistic beliefs.[/QUOTE]

 

[Hister]

Agnostics aren't evangelizing, they're trying to get theists and atheists to smarten up. You both believe in something you cannot at this time prove.

 

[HUGGY]

Agnostics aren't evangelizing, they're trying to get theists and atheists to smarten up. You both believe in something you cannot at this time prove.

I fuckin HATE agnostics!!!!!! Ya wishy washy skanks!!!!! Ya stupid fucks teach your kids to be fence sitting two faced WEENIES!!!!! PURE EVIL!!!!

 

[HUGGY]

Agnostics aren't evangelizing, they're trying to get theists and atheists to smarten up. You both believe in something you cannot at this time prove.

See..thats why I hate agnostics.

If you were observing a battle between two 1,000 strong armies ...... and one of the armies had lost 999 of its warriors ..you would do one or both of two things..

A: Declair the results inconclusive..

B: Declair it isn't your battle.. go back to "A"

Agnostics are pure fuckin evil!!!!!!!

 

[Gadawg73]

Agnostics aren't evangelizing, they're trying to get theists and atheists to smarten up. You both believe in something you cannot at this time prove.

See..thats why I hate agnostics.

If you were observing a battle between two 1,000 strong armies ...... and one of the armies had lost 999 of its warriors ..you would do one or both of two things..

A: Declair the results inconclusive..

B: Declair it isn't your battle.. go back to "A"

Agnostics are pure fuckin evil!!!!!!!

False.
An agnostic does not dispute YOUR beliefs or anyone's beliefs when it comes to claims of religion, and religion ONLY.
In all other areas their agnostic beliefs do not apply.
An agnostic believes that all religous beliefs are unknown.
Similar to my "unprovable" stance with creationists. No one can prove or unprove any religous belief, ever.

 

[Hister]

Agnostics aren't evangelizing, they're trying to get theists and atheists to smarten up. You both believe in something you cannot at this time prove.

I fuckin HATE agnostics!!!!!! Ya wishy washy skanks!!!!! Ya stupid fucks teach your kids to be fence sitting two faced WEENIES!!!!! PURE EVIL!!!!

I don't fence sit, I'm a realist, I teach my kids to try to see things how they are, not how you want them to be. And can you realistically say that you know for sure there's no god? What are your reasons?

 

[FA_Q2]

Agnostics aren't evangelizing, they're trying to get theists and atheists to smarten up. You both believe in something you cannot at this time prove.

I fuckin HATE agnostics!!!!!! Ya wishy washy skanks!!!!! Ya stupid fucks teach your kids to be fence sitting two faced WEENIES!!!!! PURE EVIL!!!!

I don't fence sit, I'm a realist, I teach my kids to try to see things how they are, not how you want them to be. And can you realistically say that you know for sure there's no god? What are your reasons?

What I can say is that I choose not to believe in anything without sufficient evidence and therefore I do not believe in god. That in no way makes my atheism a belief or religious conviction, just simply stating the facts as they relate to my world view. You, as an agnostic, will take a lack of any evidence as a credence that something MAY exist but is not known at this time, I do not. Under that presumption you could also believe in puff the magic dragon or the flying spaghetti monster. After all, there is no evidence either way for those creatures also. So, no, atheism is not a belief or religious conviction unless you are actively and positively stating that god CANNOT exist. I admit there are atheists like that out there but the majority of atheists simply acknowledge there is no evidence either way and as such, there is no reason to believe that god exists. In a purely scientific stance, lack of evidence against in no way validates a theory that has no evidence to back it up.

To me an agnostic seems like someone that truly wants to believe in god and religion but cannot accept today's religions because of all the baggage, ceremony and dogma that is attached to it. This may not be the case for you but it does seem that many are like this and only agnostic because they have not chosen what they actually want to follow.

 

[Hister]

I fuckin HATE agnostics!!!!!! Ya wishy washy skanks!!!!! Ya stupid fucks teach your kids to be fence sitting two faced WEENIES!!!!! PURE EVIL!!!!

I don't fence sit, I'm a realist, I teach my kids to try to see things how they are, not how you want them to be. And can you realistically say that you know for sure there's no god? What are your reasons?

What I can say is that I choose not to believe in anything without sufficient evidence and therefore I do not believe in god. That in no way makes my atheism a belief or religious conviction, just simply stating the facts as they relate to my world view. You, as an agnostic, will take a lack of any evidence as a credence that something MAY exist but is not known at this time, I do not. Under that presumption you could also believe in puff the magic dragon or the flying spaghetti monster. After all, there is no evidence either way for those creatures also. So, no, atheism is not a belief or religious conviction unless you are actively and positively stating that god CANNOT exist. I admit there are atheists like that out there but the majority of atheists simply acknowledge there is no evidence either way and as such, there is no reason to believe that god exists. In a purely scientific stance, lack of evidence against in no way validates a theory that has no evidence to back it up.

To me an agnostic seems like someone that truly wants to believe in god and religion but cannot accept today's religions because of all the baggage, ceremony and dogma that is attached to it. This may not be the case for you but it does seem that many are like this and only agnostic because they have not chosen what they actually want to follow.

As an agnostic, I don't think there is a god because one has not been proven. Since man doesn't know everything, nor can he see the whole universe, it's impossible to say whether the great spaghetti monster exists or not. As it stands now, I've yet to see one, but who knows what's really out there in the universe, do you?
The concept of the god of the bible or koran is extremely implausible to me, but are there other dimensions, or things we've yet to see? Surely.

 

[Hister]

...then again, maybe this is all there is, lol.

 

[HUGGY]

...then again, maybe this is all there is, lol.

I was joking. How can anyone hate agnostics when they do not take a stand?

It was fun watching your reaction. Lighten up.

 

[Madeline]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3xhr8XrMKo]YouTube - Blue Velvet-Bobby Vinton- Vinton Cover of Original-[/ame]

People still love one another. Whether that is proof of God or not, it is a reason to celebrate.

 

[THE LIGHT]

Actually, they are. No infant or child believes in any god until they are either told about one or invents some kind of explanation later.

They may not plop out and say. Aha, there is a god, but neither do they plop out saying "there is no god."

I do. Do you think that if they were told it's not ok, that that would be free will?

I don't think they should be told either. That is free will. Let them come to their own conclusions without being told by an "all knowing" teacher of which innocent minds are eager to believe.

Actually, they're not told to believe it, they're told that that's what empirical science and all the evidence points to.

No, they are told it is fact. They are not presented with any inkling that there could be another possibility out there.

 

[hipeter924]

Agnostics aren't evangelizing, they're trying to get theists and atheists to smarten up. You both believe in something you cannot at this time prove.

See..thats why I hate agnostics.

If you were observing a battle between two 1,000 strong armies ...... and one of the armies had lost 999 of its warriors ..you would do one or both of two things..

A: Declair the results inconclusive..

B: Declair it isn't your battle.. go back to "A"

Agnostics are pure fuckin evil!!!!!!!

Atheists including Dawkins always say that there is no god based on absence of evidence*, rather than total proof. I am sick and tired of Agnostics saying we don't have total proof there is no god.

Theists if I understand it say there is a god, claiming absence of evidence is god testing people's faith, or pointing to religious texts or revelations coming from a spiritual realm that is thus far undetectable by science.

Agnostics claim that we can never know whether there is a god, because there is not enough evidence either way.

So if I was to say who is most stupid in this issue, agnostics fit that category perfectly, as its one thing to say there is or is not a god, but quite another to say we will never know. It's like saying we can never know the earth is round or even be allowed to say it is because we don't have 100% proof.

*Here is a Ayn Rand link showing what I mean by absence of evidence rather than total proof as such. Never called upon to prove a negative.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8u04wp3tioQ[/ame]

 

[FA_Q2]

Agnostics aren't evangelizing, they're trying to get theists and atheists to smarten up. You both believe in something you cannot at this time prove.

See..thats why I hate agnostics.

If you were observing a battle between two 1,000 strong armies ...... and one of the armies had lost 999 of its warriors ..you would do one or both of two things..

A: Declair the results inconclusive..

B: Declair it isn't your battle.. go back to "A"

Agnostics are pure fuckin evil!!!!!!!

Atheists including Dawkins always say that there is no god based on absence of evidence*, rather than proof. I am sick and tired of Agnostics saying we don't have proof there is no god.

Theists if I understand it say there is a god, claiming absence of evidence is god testing people's faith, or pointing to religious texts or revelations coming from a spiritual realm that is thus far undetectable by science.

Agnostics claim that we can never know whether there is a god, because there is not enough evidence either way.

So if I was to say who is most stupid in this issue, agnostics fit that category perfectly, as its one thing to say there is or is not a god, but quite another to say we will never know. It's like saying we can never know the earth is round or even be allowed to say it is because we don't have 100% proof.

*Here is a Ayn Rand link showing what I mean by absence of evidence rather than proof as such. Never called upon to prove a negative.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8u04wp3tioQ]YouTube - Ayn Rand On Religion[/ame]

I'll be honest, I would actually describe hister as an atheist. He seems to be acknowledging that there is a possibility of god but that he does not believe that god exists. Correct me if I am wrong hister, but is that not a correct statement? That is an atheist to me. I see an agnostic as someone who believes god does exist but the details are unknowable and choosing a specific religion is fallacy because you cannot know which one is correct or right. God is essentially unknowable but does exist.

 

[hipeter924]

See..thats why I hate agnostics.

If you were observing a battle between two 1,000 strong armies ...... and one of the armies had lost 999 of its warriors ..you would do one or both of two things..

A: Declair the results inconclusive..

B: Declair it isn't your battle.. go back to "A"

Agnostics are pure fuckin evil!!!!!!!

Atheists including Dawkins always say that there is no god based on absence of evidence*, rather than proof. I am sick and tired of Agnostics saying we don't have proof there is no god.

Theists if I understand it say there is a god, claiming absence of evidence is god testing people's faith, or pointing to religious texts or revelations coming from a spiritual realm that is thus far undetectable by science.

Agnostics claim that we can never know whether there is a god, because there is not enough evidence either way.

So if I was to say who is most stupid in this issue, agnostics fit that category perfectly, as its one thing to say there is or is not a god, but quite another to say we will never know. It's like saying we can never know the earth is round or even be allowed to say it is because we don't have 100% proof.

*Here is a Ayn Rand link showing what I mean by absence of evidence rather than proof as such. Never called upon to prove a negative.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8u04wp3tioQ"]YouTube - Ayn Rand On Religion[/ame]

I'll be honest, I would actually describe hister as an atheist. He seems to be acknowledging that there is a possibility of god but that he does not believe that god exists. Correct me if I am wrong hister, but is that not a correct statement? That is an atheist to me. I see an agnostic as someone who believes god does exist but the details are unknowable and choosing a specific religion is fallacy because you cannot know which one is correct or right. God is essentially unknowable but does exist.

I don't believe that gods existence is an untestable hypothesis, the reason for that is simple. Nothing is an untestable hypothesis, just because we don't have a way to test it now does not mean we will not in the future. So what disturbs me the most about agnosticism is making the radical claim that we need 100% proof and and can never proof anything about gods nonexistence or existence. There are many scientific ideas that have started off with flaky evidence and then proven correct, the first of those being that of the Earth revolving around the sun.

 

[FA_Q2]

Atheists including Dawkins always say that there is no god based on absence of evidence*, rather than proof. I am sick and tired of Agnostics saying we don't have proof there is no god.

Theists if I understand it say there is a god, claiming absence of evidence is god testing people's faith, or pointing to religious texts or revelations coming from a spiritual realm that is thus far undetectable by science.

Agnostics claim that we can never know whether there is a god, because there is not enough evidence either way.

So if I was to say who is most stupid in this issue, agnostics fit that category perfectly, as its one thing to say there is or is not a god, but quite another to say we will never know. It's like saying we can never know the earth is round or even be allowed to say it is because we don't have 100% proof.

*Here is a Ayn Rand link showing what I mean by absence of evidence rather than proof as such. Never called upon to prove a negative.
(vid removed by FA_Q2 for space)

I'll be honest, I would actually describe hister as an atheist. He seems to be acknowledging that there is a possibility of god but that he does not believe that god exists. Correct me if I am wrong hister, but is that not a correct statement? That is an atheist to me. I see an agnostic as someone who believes god does exist but the details are unknowable and choosing a specific religion is fallacy because you cannot know which one is correct or right. God is essentially unknowable but does exist.

I don't believe that gods existence is an untestable hypothesis, the reason for that is simple. Nothing is an untestable hypothesis, just because we don't have a way to test it now does not mean we will not in the future. So what disturbs me the most about agnosticism is making the radical claim that we need 100% proof and and can never proof anything about gods nonexistence or existence. There are many scientific ideas that have started off with flaky evidence and then proven correct, the first of those being that of the Earth revolving around the sun.

That maybe true but there is one problem, science relies on the laws of nature to perform those tests. The very nature of god is supernatural and therefore it does not follow those same laws. At some point we may well be able to prove the existence of got through some means but I would put that on extremely shaky ground due to that simple fact - things that operate outside the rules of nature are essentially untestable because we have no means to collect or interpret that data. On that same point, it is actually 100 percent impossible to disprove god for the same reason. If god is all knowing, all powerful and supernatural there is no way to confine it within a set of test parameters. Because of this, there is no actual test that can be run that can unequivocally disprove god, it is simply beyond the scope of nature and science.


Then again..

I refuse to prove that I exist,' says God, `for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.'
`But,' says Man, `The Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED.'
`Oh dear,' says God, `I hadn't thought of that,' and promptly disappears in a puff of logic.

Douglass Adams
The Ultimate Hitchhikers Guide to the Universe