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Okay. Well the way I see the world:I don't believe that gods existence is an untestable hypothesis, the reason for that is simple. Nothing is an untestable hypothesis, just because we don't have a way to test it now does not mean we will not in the future. So what disturbs me the most about agnosticism is making the radical claim that we need 100% proof and and can never proof anything about gods nonexistence or existence. There are many scientific ideas that have started off with flaky evidence and then proven correct, the first of those being that of the Earth revolving around the sun.I'll be honest, I would actually describe hister as an atheist. He seems to be acknowledging that there is a possibility of god but that he does not believe that god exists. Correct me if I am wrong hister, but is that not a correct statement? That is an atheist to me. I see an agnostic as someone who believes god does exist but the details are unknowable and choosing a specific religion is fallacy because you cannot know which one is correct or right. God is essentially unknowable but does exist.
That maybe true but there is one problem, science relies on the laws of nature to perform those tests. The very nature of god is supernatural and therefore it does not follow those same laws. At some point we may well be able to prove the existence of got through some means but I would put that on extremely shaky ground due to that simple fact - things that operate outside the rules of nature are essentially untestable because we have no means to collect or interpret that data. On that same point, it is actually 100 percent impossible to disprove god for the same reason. If god is all knowing, all powerful and supernatural there is no way to confine it within a set of test parameters. Because of this, there is no actual test that can be run that can unequivocally disprove god, it is simply beyond the scope of nature and science.
Then again..
I refuse to prove that I exist,' says God, `for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.'
`But,' says Man, `The Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED.'
`Oh dear,' says God, `I hadn't thought of that,' and promptly disappears in a puff of logic.
Douglass Adams
The Ultimate Hitchhikers Guide to the Universe
Standing naked on the front porch with and erection and a shot gun works too.
hipester, as an agnostic, I don't need 100% proof that god exists, but maybe even just some tangible proof for a start?
Which means that until then, with zero proof means there is no god that's been proven, but the door's left open for anyone to come forward with some actual proof, and I could change my mind. The only sane path to be on.
There is no proof of the existence of the supernatural.That maybe true but there is one problem, science relies on the laws of nature to perform those tests. The very nature of god is supernatural and therefore it does not follow those same laws.
Terrorists? Last I checked it was Muslims that invaded the middle east and ethnic cleansed and committing genocide against Jews, before murdering thousands of Christians and invading Europe.btw hipester, how can you be against terrorism and be a supporter of Israel? Israelis are the original middle eastern terrorists.
Okay. Well the way I see the world:I don't believe that gods existence is an untestable hypothesis, the reason for that is simple. Nothing is an untestable hypothesis, just because we don't have a way to test it now does not mean we will not in the future. So what disturbs me the most about agnosticism is making the radical claim that we need 100% proof and and can never proof anything about gods nonexistence or existence. There are many scientific ideas that have started off with flaky evidence and then proven correct, the first of those being that of the Earth revolving around the sun.
That maybe true but there is one problem, science relies on the laws of nature to perform those tests. The very nature of god is supernatural and therefore it does not follow those same laws. At some point we may well be able to prove the existence of got through some means but I would put that on extremely shaky ground due to that simple fact - things that operate outside the rules of nature are essentially untestable because we have no means to collect or interpret that data. On that same point, it is actually 100 percent impossible to disprove god for the same reason. If god is all knowing, all powerful and supernatural there is no way to confine it within a set of test parameters. Because of this, there is no actual test that can be run that can unequivocally disprove god, it is simply beyond the scope of nature and science.
Then again..
I refuse to prove that I exist,' says God, `for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.'
`But,' says Man, `The Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED.'
`Oh dear,' says God, `I hadn't thought of that,' and promptly disappears in a puff of logic.
Douglass Adams
The Ultimate Hitchhikers Guide to the Universe
We can't prove we aren't brains in a vat.
But we have a lot of proof we are not brains in a vat.
That is enough to say we are not brains in a vat.
Thus even though we don't have total proof, we are not brains in a vat.
There is no proof of the existence of the supernatural.That maybe true but there is one problem, science relies on the laws of nature to perform those tests. The very nature of god is supernatural and therefore it does not follow those same laws.
Wouldn't it have to be proven that nature is not supreme before anything can be claimed to be supernatural?
Really, why?
If G-d doesn't exist then why do you spend soooo much time and resources writing books and movies, posting on message boards, etc... to slander a god that doesn't exist.
I mean really, why not divide your time between G-d and Santa Clause?
Terrorists? Last I checked it was Muslims that invaded the middle east and ethnic cleansed and committing genocide against Jews, before murdering thousands of Christians and invading Europe.btw hipester, how can you be against terrorism and be a supporter of Israel? Israelis are the original middle eastern terrorists.
A definition does not mean it is real. A Super God can be defined as being above and not subject to God's laws but that definition does not make a Super God a reality.There is no proof of the existence of the supernatural.That maybe true but there is one problem, science relies on the laws of nature to perform those tests. The very nature of god is supernatural and therefore it does not follow those same laws.
Wouldn't it have to be proven that nature is not supreme before anything can be claimed to be supernatural?
??? what are you talking about? Supernatural simply means above or not subject to natural laws. There is no need to prove anything, definitions of words are (or should be) already agreed upon.
Terrorists? Last I checked it was Muslims that invaded the middle east and ethnic cleansed and committing genocide against Jews, before murdering thousands of Christians and invading Europe.btw hipester, how can you be against terrorism and be a supporter of Israel? Israelis are the original middle eastern terrorists.
clearly, you've read the old testament. The Ghosts of Canaanites laugh at your feeble education.
I never was referring to the old testament, pick up a history book (though not one written by leftists and terrorists).Terrorists? Last I checked it was Muslims that invaded the middle east and ethnic cleansed and committing genocide against Jews, before murdering thousands of Christians and invading Europe.btw hipester, how can you be against terrorism and be a supporter of Israel? Israelis are the original middle eastern terrorists.
clearly, you've read the old testament. The Ghosts of Canaanites laugh at your feeble education.
I never was referring to the old testament, pick up a history book (though not one written by leftists and terrorists).Terrorists? Last I checked it was Muslims that invaded the middle east and ethnic cleansed and committing genocide against Jews, before murdering thousands of Christians and invading Europe.
clearly, you've read the old testament. The Ghosts of Canaanites laugh at your feeble education.
PS: The reason Israel doesn't care what people like you think is because you hate them, and want to destroy their country. You have cried wolf so many times over the 'Palestinians' that the average Israeli couldn't care less.
I never was referring to the old testament, pick up a history book (though not one written by leftists and terrorists).clearly, you've read the old testament. The Ghosts of Canaanites laugh at your feeble education.
PS: The reason Israel doesn't care what people like you think is because you hate them, and want to destroy their country. You have cried wolf so many times over the 'Palestinians' that the average Israeli couldn't care less.
I hate Israel? How'd you make that out?
Considering how often that phrase is used among people that hate Israel, its easy to spot.The state of Israel was founded by terrorists, it's a known fact. They don't actually deny it, they just don't give a shit what anybody thinks. They ain't giving it back, lol.
I never was referring to the old testament, pick up a history book (though not one written by leftists and terrorists).
PS: The reason Israel doesn't care what people like you think is because you hate them, and want to destroy their country. You have cried wolf so many times over the 'Palestinians' that the average Israeli couldn't care less.
I hate Israel? How'd you make that out?
Comments from you like this:
Considering how often that phrase is used among people that hate Israel, its easy to spot.The state of Israel was founded by terrorists, it's a known fact. They don't actually deny it, they just don't give a shit what anybody thinks. They ain't giving it back, lol.
