Why is none of the damaging evidence against Hillary being released

I am talking in the mainstream Franco, an average guy like me didn't hear from him in along time..


I always said if Bill did what Newt did and step down we wouldn't of had Bush Jr, Obama and now Trump..


.

Sure, but you've always said a lot of goofy shit.


Who is on defense here?

Not me.....
No. You're on a soap box.


And your not? You want to revise history I do not.


.


What's in it for you to defend Hillary's past shenanigans?

Only to justify future ones?

Again if Bill would of done the honorable thing, like Richard Nixon and Newt and stepped down we never would of had the disaster of Bush Jr, Obama and now Trump...

But you're not man enough to admit it.


.
Or Gore could have used Bill in his campaign, the twit.
 
He also said he would apologize to Clinton if he ever saw him.

Here is the interview of which you speak. The exact transcript. Please show us where what you allege, was actually said. It was not.

Why Ken Starr Would Apologize to Bill Clinton
Published February 17, 2010
FoxNews.com

Why Ken Starr Would Apologize to Bill Clinton

Here too is an interpretation of the interview from the New York Times. The Times site doesn't permit copy and paste so I've taken a photo of the paragraph to which you erroneously point.

Ken%20Star%20NYT_zpsawa52hkz.jpg

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/25/us/politics/ken-starr-impeachment-bill-clinton.html?_r=0
 
Because the releases will be timed for her or her bimbo daughters 2020 run for office.

Aint it great

Trump Ally Roger Stone Claims Huma Abedin Collected Damaging Material on the Clintons

Yes, where is all of that evidence that Hillary is a liar, a crook, a warmonger, taking bribes? For 25+ years the Clintons have endured investigation after investigation, all of which has come up with nothing.

Despite claims by Republicans that the Clintons are a crime family, and despite 17 investigations costing taxpayers $100,000,000, there hasn't been a single witness produced, a single piece of evidence of wrong-doing, or indictment, except for Bill lying about a blow job under oath.

Most of these investigations were begun at the behest of Republicans on fishing expeditions, who started rumours of illegal activities by the Clintons and then went seeking evidence that the Clintons did what the Republicans claimed (with no evidence) that they did. In every instance, Republicans came up short - they found NOTHING.

Call me crazy, but I conclude, there was nothing to find in the first place.


You are starting to sound like a Franco sock, I thought you were Canadian?

Listen I told Franco this and I will tell you also


Obama, Michelle, Nancy Pelosi, harry Reid, Bush sr, Bush Jr, Newt Gingrich combined don't have as many scandals as Hillary has...


Do you see a pattern here?



.

I looked into every one of the so-called "Clinton Scandals" in depth, reading accounts and news reports from as early as 1990, and some even earlier (for the Anita Broaddrick case) and here is what I found:

Republicans start a rumour of some impropriety by one or both of the Clintons, or someone the Clintons know or who has any sort of tie to the Clintons, is found to be dirty, so Republicans start speculating as to ways the Clintons could be involved. Then they start talking as if their speculation is fact. Then they want these "facts" investigated. An investigation follows where no evidence is found that the Clintons did anything wrong. No witnesses turn against them, even with immunity, and a report is issued clearing the Clintons for lack of any evidence whatsoever. Republicans issue this report and the moment they close the report, they repeat the same lie the report disproves as if the investigation had never happened, and the Clintons hadn't been exonerated.

This happened over and over again. Through 7 Benghazi investigations. Through Whitewater, Travelgate, Filegate.

Anita Broaddrick filed an affidavit in the Paula Jones case denying that Clinton had ever raped her and begging the press and the Republican Party to respect her privacy and her leave her alone about it. The Special Prosecutor had the FBI haul her in and threaten her with a perjury charge if she didn't recant and offer her immunity if she did. After that Anita said whatever Republicans told her to say.

Ken Starr has publically apologized to the Clintons for his part in what he deemed to be a "public witch hunt" against them and said he is ashamed of his actions which were motivated by partisanship and damaging to the country.

Today's crop of Republicans have had no such attacks of conscience. Party over country - always.

Please show your reliable sources and links to this nonsense.

In addition to the Impeachment of President Clinton for felony perjury.

These are the results and convictions of the various investigations into President Clinton.

Whitewater

Arkansas Gov. Jim Guy Tucker - fraud felony convictions - 3 counts (Tucker resigned facing impeachment)

Jim McDougal - fraud and conspiracy felony convictions - 18 counts

Susan McDougal - felony - 4 counts (pardoned during Clinton's last minute pardongate payoffs)

William J. Marks Sr - conspiracy Stephen Smith - conspiracy

Larry Kuca - Fraud Neal Ainley - 2 misdemeanors for embezzlement

David Hale - guilty plea - conspiracy

Chris Wade - felony - Whitewater real-estate investor

John Haley - felony 1998 on fraud

Robert Palmer - felony for conspiracy

Charles Matthews - guilty plea for bribery

Eugene Fitzhugh - Whitewater - bribery

Webster Hubbell - #2 ranking Justice Dept. Official - felony for embezzlement and fraud

John Latham - CEO of Madison Bank - bank fraud Campaign Finance:

Johnny Chung - Clinton cronie - felony guilty plea - funneling money from China

Gene Lum - convicted - felony for money laundering for the DNC

Nora Lum - convicted - felony for money laundering for the DNC

Howard Glicken - guilty plea - 2 midemeanors - funneling foreign donations

Yah Lin "Charlie" Trie - guilty plea - illegal Clinton campaign donations

John Huang - Clinton cronie - felony guilty plea - funneling money from China

Paula Jonesgate:


William Jefferson Clinton - found guilty - civil contempt of court - lying under oath about material facts. The Office of the Independent Council further presented Clinton with an agreement that had him disbarred from practicing law for 5 years and made him signed statement admitting to his deception

Post Administration
Sandy Bergergate

Sandy Berger – Clinton National Security Adviser -- found guilty of stealing highly class documents from the National Archive and destroying them

Yes, Clinton was persecuted mightily for lying about a blow job. But in reality, that is what he did. No I don't consider perjury a minor matter but had this frivolous law suit not be brought to harass and embarass the President of the United States, a suit that DISMISSED with PREJUDICE, none of that would have happened.

You have listed more than a dozen people who were arrested and convicted of crimes related to Whitewater, but none of them were named "Clinton". There was no evidence against the Clintons, and none of those who were subsequently convicted, testified against the Clintons. Ken Starr throughly investigated these charges and this is part of what he apologized for:

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/25/us/politics/ken-starr-impeachment-bill-clinton.html
Should male supervisors receive female blow jobs from a subordinate?
 
Nixon committed treason. He ran an illegal war against Cambodia and didn't tell Congress, in total violation of the Constitution. He ordered a break-in of the DNC by people he hired using an illegal slush fund, and then conspired to cover up the crime. He kept an "enemies list" and used the IRS to go after them, and that's just off the top of my head.

Bill lied about a blow job. BIG difference.

Quite a joke.

President Nixon's mistake was, as always happens, in trying to cover-up the break-in of the DNC of which he knew nothing until after the break-in.

You don't think every President did NOT have an enemies list?

What would you call the 900 FBI files on various people Hillary had delivered to her in the White House? Was that so they could be sure they got the right address of the individuals for their Christmas card list?

Why are you afraid to discuss the issues happening today?
 
There should be five minutes every hour for a retort. Those RW turds couldn't survive it.

Why?

Progressives have ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, NPR, PBS, ESPN, The New York Times and virtually every other print newspaper. Then you have MidiaMatters, The Nation, DailyKOS, DemocratUnderground, and how many other websites?

As for surviving with 5 minutes of government-mandated propaganda on talk radio. How did the exclusively Progressive radio network Air America, financed initially by Al "snake oil salesman" Gore work out?

Stirring the pot again I see.
Those are what as know as "JOURNALISTS". Every media outlet BUT your disgraceful propaganda machine. The first time in our history, dupe.

You dupes have to turn into Fox Rush Levin Beck Savage...otherwise your balloon would pop.
 
Yes, where is all of that evidence that Hillary is a liar, a crook, a warmonger, taking bribes? For 25+ years the Clintons have endured investigation after investigation, all of which has come up with nothing.

Despite claims by Republicans that the Clintons are a crime family, and despite 17 investigations costing taxpayers $100,000,000, there hasn't been a single witness produced, a single piece of evidence of wrong-doing, or indictment, except for Bill lying about a blow job under oath.

Most of these investigations were begun at the behest of Republicans on fishing expeditions, who started rumours of illegal activities by the Clintons and then went seeking evidence that the Clintons did what the Republicans claimed (with no evidence) that they did. In every instance, Republicans came up short - they found NOTHING.

Call me crazy, but I conclude, there was nothing to find in the first place.


You are starting to sound like a Franco sock, I thought you were Canadian?

Listen I told Franco this and I will tell you also


Obama, Michelle, Nancy Pelosi, harry Reid, Bush sr, Bush Jr, Newt Gingrich combined don't have as many scandals as Hillary has...


Do you see a pattern here?



.

I looked into every one of the so-called "Clinton Scandals" in depth, reading accounts and news reports from as early as 1990, and some even earlier (for the Anita Broaddrick case) and here is what I found:

Republicans start a rumour of some impropriety by one or both of the Clintons, or someone the Clintons know or who has any sort of tie to the Clintons, is found to be dirty, so Republicans start speculating as to ways the Clintons could be involved. Then they start talking as if their speculation is fact. Then they want these "facts" investigated. An investigation follows where no evidence is found that the Clintons did anything wrong. No witnesses turn against them, even with immunity, and a report is issued clearing the Clintons for lack of any evidence whatsoever. Republicans issue this report and the moment they close the report, they repeat the same lie the report disproves as if the investigation had never happened, and the Clintons hadn't been exonerated.

This happened over and over again. Through 7 Benghazi investigations. Through Whitewater, Travelgate, Filegate.

Anita Broaddrick filed an affidavit in the Paula Jones case denying that Clinton had ever raped her and begging the press and the Republican Party to respect her privacy and her leave her alone about it. The Special Prosecutor had the FBI haul her in and threaten her with a perjury charge if she didn't recant and offer her immunity if she did. After that Anita said whatever Republicans told her to say.

Ken Starr has publically apologized to the Clintons for his part in what he deemed to be a "public witch hunt" against them and said he is ashamed of his actions which were motivated by partisanship and damaging to the country.

Today's crop of Republicans have had no such attacks of conscience. Party over country - always.

Please show your reliable sources and links to this nonsense.

In addition to the Impeachment of President Clinton for felony perjury.

These are the results and convictions of the various investigations into President Clinton.

Whitewater

Arkansas Gov. Jim Guy Tucker - fraud felony convictions - 3 counts (Tucker resigned facing impeachment)

Jim McDougal - fraud and conspiracy felony convictions - 18 counts

Susan McDougal - felony - 4 counts (pardoned during Clinton's last minute pardongate payoffs)

William J. Marks Sr - conspiracy Stephen Smith - conspiracy

Larry Kuca - Fraud Neal Ainley - 2 misdemeanors for embezzlement

David Hale - guilty plea - conspiracy

Chris Wade - felony - Whitewater real-estate investor

John Haley - felony 1998 on fraud

Robert Palmer - felony for conspiracy

Charles Matthews - guilty plea for bribery

Eugene Fitzhugh - Whitewater - bribery

Webster Hubbell - #2 ranking Justice Dept. Official - felony for embezzlement and fraud

John Latham - CEO of Madison Bank - bank fraud Campaign Finance:

Johnny Chung - Clinton cronie - felony guilty plea - funneling money from China

Gene Lum - convicted - felony for money laundering for the DNC

Nora Lum - convicted - felony for money laundering for the DNC

Howard Glicken - guilty plea - 2 midemeanors - funneling foreign donations

Yah Lin "Charlie" Trie - guilty plea - illegal Clinton campaign donations

John Huang - Clinton cronie - felony guilty plea - funneling money from China

Paula Jonesgate:


William Jefferson Clinton - found guilty - civil contempt of court - lying under oath about material facts. The Office of the Independent Council further presented Clinton with an agreement that had him disbarred from practicing law for 5 years and made him signed statement admitting to his deception

Post Administration
Sandy Bergergate

Sandy Berger – Clinton National Security Adviser -- found guilty of stealing highly class documents from the National Archive and destroying them

Yes, Clinton was persecuted mightily for lying about a blow job. But in reality, that is what he did. No I don't consider perjury a minor matter but had this frivolous law suit not be brought to harass and embarass the President of the United States, a suit that DISMISSED with PREJUDICE, none of that would have happened.

You have listed more than a dozen people who were arrested and convicted of crimes related to Whitewater, but none of them were named "Clinton". There was no evidence against the Clintons, and none of those who were subsequently convicted, testified against the Clintons. Ken Starr throughly investigated these charges and this is part of what he apologized for:

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/25/us/politics/ken-starr-impeachment-bill-clinton.html
Should male supervisors receive female blow jobs from a subordinate?
Should subordinates seduce? I get the feeling you only get malevolent character assassination as "news", dupe.
 
Nixon committed treason. He ran an illegal war against Cambodia and didn't tell Congress, in total violation of the Constitution. He ordered a break-in of the DNC by people he hired using an illegal slush fund, and then conspired to cover up the crime. He kept an "enemies list" and used the IRS to go after them, and that's just off the top of my head.

Bill lied about a blow job. BIG difference.

Quite a joke.

President Nixon's mistake was, as always happens, in trying to cover-up the break-in of the DNC of which he knew nothing until after the break-in.

You don't think every President did NOT have an enemies list?

What would you call the 900 FBI files on various people Hillary had delivered to her in the White House? Was that so they could be sure they got the right address of the individuals for their Christmas card list?

Why are you afraid to discuss the issues happening today?
That's BS propaganda, dupe. The issues are something you don't appear to have heard of...Try these: After 30 years of Voodoo: worst min. wage, work conditions, illegal work safeguards, vacations, work week, college costs, rich/poor gap, upward social mobility, % homeless and in prison EVAH, and in the modern world!!
 
Nixon committed treason. He ran an illegal war against Cambodia and didn't tell Congress, in total violation of the Constitution. He ordered a break-in of the DNC by people he hired using an illegal slush fund, and then conspired to cover up the crime. He kept an "enemies list" and used the IRS to go after them, and that's just off the top of my head.

Bill lied about a blow job. BIG difference.

Quite a joke.

President Nixon's mistake was, as always happens, in trying to cover-up the break-in of the DNC of which he knew nothing until after the break-in.

You don't think every President did NOT have an enemies list?

What would you call the 900 FBI files on various people Hillary had delivered to her in the White House? Was that so they could be sure they got the right address of the individuals for their Christmas card list?

Why are you afraid to discuss the issues happening today?
That's BS propaganda, dupe. The issues are something you don't appear to have heard of...Try these: After 30 years of Voodoo: worst min. wage, work conditions, illegal work safeguards, vacations, work week, college costs, rich/poor gap, upward social mobility, % homeless and in prison EVAH, and in the modern world!!
Oh Franco, what would of happened with out trickle down?

Did you ever ask yourself that?


51620151126140.jpg


.
 
NOBODY ever claimed Clinton's blow job wasn't consensual. Not so with Trump's pussy grabbing.

You know that how?

Just because you dislike Pelosi, Clinton and Warren, doesn't give you an excuse to lie about them, make false accusations about them, and to judge them on the basis of stuff that never happened.

Your dislike of these women based on their lack being arrogant smacks of misogny. Trump comes across as totally arrogant and out of touch, but you have no problem with that, and I don't believe for a second he gives a rat's ass about working people. If he did, he wouldn't bilk them at every opportunity.
 
NOBODY ever claimed Clinton's blow job wasn't consensual. Not so with Trump's pussy grabbing.

You know that how?

Just because you dislike Pelosi, Clinton and Warren, doesn't give you an excuse to lie about them, make false accusations about them, and to judge them on the basis of stuff that never happened.

Your dislike of these women based on their lack being arrogant smacks of misogny. Trump comes across as totally arrogant and out of touch, but you have no problem with that, and I don't believe for a second he gives a rat's ass about working people. If he did, he wouldn't bilk them at every opportunity.

Don't try to pull the feminist card.. Nikki Haley former governor of South Carolina and now UN ambassador of the United States is one of the best we have.

Trump says one thing and Nikki says another so far to corral him in.. And he let's her.. (I kind of think ivanka tells him to lay off Nikki)

.
 
Dragon lady I would go as far as saying the real president of the United States is ivanka..


.
 
Nixon committed treason. He ran an illegal war against Cambodia and didn't tell Congress, in total violation of the Constitution. He ordered a break-in of the DNC by people he hired using an illegal slush fund, and then conspired to cover up the crime. He kept an "enemies list" and used the IRS to go after them, and that's just off the top of my head.

Bill lied about a blow job. BIG difference.

Quite a joke.

President Nixon's mistake was, as always happens, in trying to cover-up the break-in of the DNC of which he knew nothing until after the break-in.

You don't think every President did NOT have an enemies list?

What would you call the 900 FBI files on various people Hillary had delivered to her in the White House? Was that so they could be sure they got the right address of the individuals for their Christmas card list?

Why are you afraid to discuss the issues happening today?
That's BS propaganda, dupe. The issues are something you don't appear to have heard of...Try these: After 30 years of Voodoo: worst min. wage, work conditions, illegal work safeguards, vacations, work week, college costs, rich/poor gap, upward social mobility, % homeless and in prison EVAH, and in the modern world!!
Oh Franco, what would of happened with out trickle down?

Did you ever ask yourself that?


51620151126140.jpg


.
Trickle down never happened. Tripling the debt, wrecking the non rich, and the S+L bubble happened...
 
Gingrich had troubles with claims that a course as tax exempt, and Bently was spending state money on the woman he was screwing. Both proven. What have you proven other than you got a lot of people to believe in manufactured scandals that you couldn't prove?



Couldn't prove?


Kennith Starr's multi-million dollar report proved it with out a doubt on Billy Clinton..

It shut 95% if you up except the likes of you and Franco..


.

He proved a blowjob. He also said he would apologize to Clinton if he ever saw him.
Please provide the link. Just think if the Clinton's cooperated we wouldn't of found out about The blow job. Just like if hillary didn't lie about Bengazi we wouldn't of found out about the e-mails. There is a moral story to that.

Yep Witch hunts will eventually find something to whine about.


So tell us how many witch hunts were about Obama compared to Hillary?

Hell Obama almost got caught up in the ex governor of Illinois Blagobitch scheme of selling a Senate seat..

Yet it still is child's play compared to Hillary's scandals


No shortage of false accusations from the right on any quarter.
 
Big deal. Only three more years between Clinton and Lewensky than there are between Trump and Melania. She was legal age, and wanted to swallow. Nobody forced her to do anything.


I see your stooping to trashing women now to defend Bill...



That's exactly what Hillary did.



.

Not trashing. it was consensual.


In the White House which our daughters, mothers and sisters vist.

.

I'm pretty sure none of the White House visitors saw the blowjob.

True, but plenty of people saw him lying about it.

As if it was anyones business but his.
 
Yes, where is all of that evidence that Hillary is a liar, a crook, a warmonger, taking bribes? For 25+ years the Clintons have endured investigation after investigation, all of which has come up with nothing.

Despite claims by Republicans that the Clintons are a crime family, and despite 17 investigations costing taxpayers $100,000,000, there hasn't been a single witness produced, a single piece of evidence of wrong-doing, or indictment, except for Bill lying about a blow job under oath.

Most of these investigations were begun at the behest of Republicans on fishing expeditions, who started rumours of illegal activities by the Clintons and then went seeking evidence that the Clintons did what the Republicans claimed (with no evidence) that they did. In every instance, Republicans came up short - they found NOTHING.

Call me crazy, but I conclude, there was nothing to find in the first place.


You are starting to sound like a Franco sock, I thought you were Canadian?

Listen I told Franco this and I will tell you also


Obama, Michelle, Nancy Pelosi, harry Reid, Bush sr, Bush Jr, Newt Gingrich combined don't have as many scandals as Hillary has...


Do you see a pattern here?



.

I looked into every one of the so-called "Clinton Scandals" in depth, reading accounts and news reports from as early as 1990, and some even earlier (for the Anita Broaddrick case) and here is what I found:

Republicans start a rumour of some impropriety by one or both of the Clintons, or someone the Clintons know or who has any sort of tie to the Clintons, is found to be dirty, so Republicans start speculating as to ways the Clintons could be involved. Then they start talking as if their speculation is fact. Then they want these "facts" investigated. An investigation follows where no evidence is found that the Clintons did anything wrong. No witnesses turn against them, even with immunity, and a report is issued clearing the Clintons for lack of any evidence whatsoever. Republicans issue this report and the moment they close the report, they repeat the same lie the report disproves as if the investigation had never happened, and the Clintons hadn't been exonerated.

This happened over and over again. Through 7 Benghazi investigations. Through Whitewater, Travelgate, Filegate.

Anita Broaddrick filed an affidavit in the Paula Jones case denying that Clinton had ever raped her and begging the press and the Republican Party to respect her privacy and her leave her alone about it. The Special Prosecutor had the FBI haul her in and threaten her with a perjury charge if she didn't recant and offer her immunity if she did. After that Anita said whatever Republicans told her to say.

Ken Starr has publically apologized to the Clintons for his part in what he deemed to be a "public witch hunt" against them and said he is ashamed of his actions which were motivated by partisanship and damaging to the country.

Today's crop of Republicans have had no such attacks of conscience. Party over country - always.

Please show your reliable sources and links to this nonsense.

In addition to the Impeachment of President Clinton for felony perjury.

These are the results and convictions of the various investigations into President Clinton.

Whitewater

Arkansas Gov. Jim Guy Tucker - fraud felony convictions - 3 counts (Tucker resigned facing impeachment)

Jim McDougal - fraud and conspiracy felony convictions - 18 counts

Susan McDougal - felony - 4 counts (pardoned during Clinton's last minute pardongate payoffs)

William J. Marks Sr - conspiracy Stephen Smith - conspiracy

Larry Kuca - Fraud Neal Ainley - 2 misdemeanors for embezzlement

David Hale - guilty plea - conspiracy

Chris Wade - felony - Whitewater real-estate investor

John Haley - felony 1998 on fraud

Robert Palmer - felony for conspiracy

Charles Matthews - guilty plea for bribery

Eugene Fitzhugh - Whitewater - bribery

Webster Hubbell - #2 ranking Justice Dept. Official - felony for embezzlement and fraud

John Latham - CEO of Madison Bank - bank fraud Campaign Finance:

Johnny Chung - Clinton cronie - felony guilty plea - funneling money from China

Gene Lum - convicted - felony for money laundering for the DNC

Nora Lum - convicted - felony for money laundering for the DNC

Howard Glicken - guilty plea - 2 midemeanors - funneling foreign donations

Yah Lin "Charlie" Trie - guilty plea - illegal Clinton campaign donations

John Huang - Clinton cronie - felony guilty plea - funneling money from China

Paula Jonesgate:


William Jefferson Clinton - found guilty - civil contempt of court - lying under oath about material facts. The Office of the Independent Council further presented Clinton with an agreement that had him disbarred from practicing law for 5 years and made him signed statement admitting to his deception

Post Administration
Sandy Bergergate

Sandy Berger – Clinton National Security Adviser -- found guilty of stealing highly class documents from the National Archive and destroying them

Yes, Clinton was persecuted mightily for lying about a blow job. But in reality, that is what he did. No I don't consider perjury a minor matter but had this frivolous law suit not be brought to harass and embarass the President of the United States, a suit that DISMISSED with PREJUDICE, none of that would have happened.

You have listed more than a dozen people who were arrested and convicted of crimes related to Whitewater, but none of them were named "Clinton". There was no evidence against the Clintons, and none of those who were subsequently convicted, testified against the Clintons. Ken Starr throughly investigated these charges and this is part of what he apologized for:

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/25/us/politics/ken-starr-impeachment-bill-clinton.html
Should male supervisors receive female blow jobs from a subordinate?

No, not even consenually, but that's not the point. The point is that while Newt Gingerich was prosecuting Clinton for the blow job, he was having an affair with HIS staffer (who he later married). Newt's affair was NO DIFFERENT, than the Lewinsky matter, but that didn't stop Newt.

Nothing that happened between Bill and Monica was illegal and no harm was done. I realize that this is not the point, but the blow job SHOULD NOT have ended in impeachment. Had the Republicans not launched a frivolous laws suit against Clinton (the Jones case), the lie and the impeachment would not have happened.

Republicans actions against Clinton were beyond shameful. They have used Congression Investigations, Special Prosecutors, and lies, slanders to villify two people who have done nothing but serve their country well.

It is impossible to find such an egregious abuse of power anywhere in world politics. That people here still say the Clintons are guilty of any of these accusations is hardly surprising, but the level of bile and hatred spewed at them is pointless.
 

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