Why Is There Controversy Over Confederate Monuments?

[Correll]

The South should be celebrating moving beyond their racist past. Embrace the progress that has been made since the Civil Rights era. Make monuments to key Civil Rights leaders not to those who fought to maintain a slave state

By focusing on the bravery of the soldiers and the cultural heritage of the South, and pretty much ignoring the institute of slavery, the southerns of the late 1800s pretty much already made that leap.


What this is really about for you lefties is smearing your modern day enemies and undermining American History.

Seems more like they whitewashed history to create the image of a Grand Confederacy. It was not grand, it was an abomination created to ensure slavery would exist forever.

Their REAL heroes were the blacks and civil rights workers who stood up and risked their lives to put an end to Jim Crow

As a region, the South of that time had taken horrific casualties and were experiencing great and long term economic pain.

That they and the NOrth were able to heal those wounds and put the past behind them, is a masterpiece of political brilliance and goodwill.

For you, many generations after the fact, to monday morning quarterback on how they did it, and how well they did it, is laughably arrogant and stupid.


Or would be except you are actually managing to divide and damage this nation with your race baiting and finger pointing.

The south paid a heavy price for their little "experiment"
They threw a temper tantrum when Lincoln got elected and tried to take their ball and go home. The rest of the world abandoned slavery without bloodshed.....the South was unwilling to do it without a fight. A fight that cost 600,000 lives for no reason

The Confederacy is not something that should be celebrated

Um, yeah, they paid a heavy price. That was part of my point.

Nothing in the of your post addresses the rest of my point.


Here it is again.

That they and the NOrth were able to heal those wounds and put the past behind them, is a masterpiece of political brilliance and goodwill.

For you, many generations after the fact, to monday morning quarterback on how they did it, and how well they did it, is laughably arrogant and stupid.

 

[rightwinger]

Johnson was a pragmatist. Why would he sacrifice the entire south just to pick up black votes? Blacks had been voting Democratic since FDR

Johnson supported Civil Rights because it was the right thing to do. His writings and presidential documents show that

So which was it, was he a "pragmatist" or was he an idealist?

Did he think he could abandon the Dems base of support in the SOuth, ie racist whites and keep the south?

LBJ was willing to sacrifice Democratic control of the south, what used to be called "the solid south" for the Democrats in order to do what was right. He realized the time had come to insist on civil rights no matter how much it offended the grand southern tradition of segregation

That is not pragmatic. That is idealistic.

You just claimed above that he was pragmatic. Why did you claim that?

Acknowledging that the days of Jim Crow were over was pragmatic. Those in the south were unwilling to accept it

So, the dems held to Jim Crow as long as they could and then when defeat was inevitable, FINALLY switched sides.

Well, better than going down with the ship I guess.

So, where was the idealism then?

The Dems never supported it. If they did, Democrats in the north would have voted against Civil Rights

100% of Republicans in the south voted in support of Jim Crow

 

[rightwinger]

The South should be celebrating moving beyond their racist past. Embrace the progress that has been made since the Civil Rights era. Make monuments to key Civil Rights leaders not to those who fought to maintain a slave state

By focusing on the bravery of the soldiers and the cultural heritage of the South, and pretty much ignoring the institute of slavery, the southerns of the late 1800s pretty much already made that leap.


What this is really about for you lefties is smearing your modern day enemies and undermining American History.

Seems more like they whitewashed history to create the image of a Grand Confederacy. It was not grand, it was an abomination created to ensure slavery would exist forever.

Their REAL heroes were the blacks and civil rights workers who stood up and risked their lives to put an end to Jim Crow

As a region, the South of that time had taken horrific casualties and were experiencing great and long term economic pain.

That they and the NOrth were able to heal those wounds and put the past behind them, is a masterpiece of political brilliance and goodwill.

For you, many generations after the fact, to monday morning quarterback on how they did it, and how well they did it, is laughably arrogant and stupid.


Or would be except you are actually managing to divide and damage this nation with your race baiting and finger pointing.

The south paid a heavy price for their little "experiment"
They threw a temper tantrum when Lincoln got elected and tried to take their ball and go home. The rest of the world abandoned slavery without bloodshed.....the South was unwilling to do it without a fight. A fight that cost 600,000 lives for no reason

The Confederacy is not something that should be celebrated

Um, yeah, they paid a heavy price. That was part of my point.

Nothing in the of your post addresses the rest of my point.


Here it is again.

That they and the NOrth were able to heal those wounds and put the past behind them, is a masterpiece of political brilliance and goodwill.

For you, many generations after the fact, to monday morning quarterback on how they did it, and how well they did it, is laughably arrogant and stupid.

Definitely heal the wounds....celebrating the Confederacy has opened wounds of black Americans for 150 years
Confederate flags were used to taunt blacks and remind them of their former status

Waving a confederate flag and playing "Dixie" as Civil Rights marchers go by

 

[Divine Wind]

Confederate Monuments are Participation Trophies for the Losers...You Lost Bigly ...Sad ..weak ...Losers

The one the just removed in N.O. was erected after the White Supremacist won back control. The struggle didn't end in 1877, that's just when a new phase began. 1877 was when the occupation troops left La.

I was in the service at Ft Bliss in El Paso when no blacks could go to any bars They all had to go into Mexico,
Juarez So not so long ago racism flourished

To you, it may not be that long ago, but we've into four generations later with Baby Boomers, Gen Xers, Millennials (Gen Yers) and now Gen Zers.

There's more time between then and now than between then and WWI.

 

[Correll]

So which was it, was he a "pragmatist" or was he an idealist?

Did he think he could abandon the Dems base of support in the SOuth, ie racist whites and keep the south?

LBJ was willing to sacrifice Democratic control of the south, what used to be called "the solid south" for the Democrats in order to do what was right. He realized the time had come to insist on civil rights no matter how much it offended the grand southern tradition of segregation

That is not pragmatic. That is idealistic.

You just claimed above that he was pragmatic. Why did you claim that?

Acknowledging that the days of Jim Crow were over was pragmatic. Those in the south were unwilling to accept it

So, the dems held to Jim Crow as long as they could and then when defeat was inevitable, FINALLY switched sides.

Well, better than going down with the ship I guess.

So, where was the idealism then?

The Dems never supported it. If they did, Democrats in the north would have voted against Civil Rights

100% of Republicans in the south voted in support of Jim Crow

Interesting how you lost the concept of time there.

Are you evolving into a 4 dimensional higher being?

Please come back down to our human level and try again.

 

[Divine Wind]

The South should be celebrating moving beyond their racist past. Embrace the progress that has been made since the Civil Rights era. Make monuments to key Civil Rights leaders not to those who fought to maintain a slave state

By focusing on the bravery of the soldiers and the cultural heritage of the South, and pretty much ignoring the institute of slavery, the southerns of the late 1800s pretty much already made that leap.


What this is really about for you lefties is smearing your modern day enemies and undermining American History.

Seems more like they whitewashed history to create the image of a Grand Confederacy. It was not grand, it was an abomination created to ensure slavery would exist forever.

Their REAL heroes were the blacks and civil rights workers who stood up and risked their lives to put an end to Jim Crow

As a region, the South of that time had taken horrific casualties and were experiencing great and long term economic pain.

That they and the NOrth were able to heal those wounds and put the past behind them, is a masterpiece of political brilliance and goodwill.

For you, many generations after the fact, to monday morning quarterback on how they did it, and how well they did it, is laughably arrogant and stupid.


Or would be except you are actually managing to divide and damage this nation with your race baiting and finger pointing.

The south paid a heavy price for their little "experiment"
They threw a temper tantrum when Lincoln got elected and tried to take their ball and go home. The rest of the world abandoned slavery without bloodshed.....the South was unwilling to do it without a fight. A fight that cost 600,000 lives for no reason

The Confederacy is not something that should be celebrated

Um, yeah, they paid a heavy price. That was part of my point.

Nothing in the of your post addresses the rest of my point.


Here it is again.

That they and the NOrth were able to heal those wounds and put the past behind them, is a masterpiece of political brilliance and goodwill.

For you, many generations after the fact, to monday morning quarterback on how they did it, and how well they did it, is laughably arrogant and stupid.

Dude, you're arguing with someone who denies there was slavery in the North both before and after the Civil War and denies there was ever racism in the North then or even now. In his mind, the South and only the South is racist. How can you expect to reason with someone who denies reality?

 

[Correll]

By focusing on the bravery of the soldiers and the cultural heritage of the South, and pretty much ignoring the institute of slavery, the southerns of the late 1800s pretty much already made that leap.


What this is really about for you lefties is smearing your modern day enemies and undermining American History.

Seems more like they whitewashed history to create the image of a Grand Confederacy. It was not grand, it was an abomination created to ensure slavery would exist forever.

Their REAL heroes were the blacks and civil rights workers who stood up and risked their lives to put an end to Jim Crow

As a region, the South of that time had taken horrific casualties and were experiencing great and long term economic pain.

That they and the NOrth were able to heal those wounds and put the past behind them, is a masterpiece of political brilliance and goodwill.

For you, many generations after the fact, to monday morning quarterback on how they did it, and how well they did it, is laughably arrogant and stupid.


Or would be except you are actually managing to divide and damage this nation with your race baiting and finger pointing.

The south paid a heavy price for their little "experiment"
They threw a temper tantrum when Lincoln got elected and tried to take their ball and go home. The rest of the world abandoned slavery without bloodshed.....the South was unwilling to do it without a fight. A fight that cost 600,000 lives for no reason

The Confederacy is not something that should be celebrated

Um, yeah, they paid a heavy price. That was part of my point.

Nothing in the of your post addresses the rest of my point.


Here it is again.

That they and the NOrth were able to heal those wounds and put the past behind them, is a masterpiece of political brilliance and goodwill.

For you, many generations after the fact, to monday morning quarterback on how they did it, and how well they did it, is laughably arrogant and stupid.

Definitely heal the wounds....celebrating the Confederacy has opened wounds of black Americans for 150 years
Confederate flags were used to taunt blacks and remind them of their former status

I suspect that blacks in the JIm Crow south had more important things to worry about than the Confederate Widows Society.


Indeed, that a harmless celebration of ancient history, is a high priority for you lefties, shows just how much progress on Civil Rights, for blacks, have been made. You really have to search for something to be "outraged" about.


Even as recently as the 1980s, no one cared about this made up issue.

 

[rightwinger]

Seems more like they whitewashed history to create the image of a Grand Confederacy. It was not grand, it was an abomination created to ensure slavery would exist forever.

Their REAL heroes were the blacks and civil rights workers who stood up and risked their lives to put an end to Jim Crow

As a region, the South of that time had taken horrific casualties and were experiencing great and long term economic pain.

That they and the NOrth were able to heal those wounds and put the past behind them, is a masterpiece of political brilliance and goodwill.

For you, many generations after the fact, to monday morning quarterback on how they did it, and how well they did it, is laughably arrogant and stupid.


Or would be except you are actually managing to divide and damage this nation with your race baiting and finger pointing.

The south paid a heavy price for their little "experiment"
They threw a temper tantrum when Lincoln got elected and tried to take their ball and go home. The rest of the world abandoned slavery without bloodshed.....the South was unwilling to do it without a fight. A fight that cost 600,000 lives for no reason

The Confederacy is not something that should be celebrated

Um, yeah, they paid a heavy price. That was part of my point.

Nothing in the of your post addresses the rest of my point.


Here it is again.

That they and the NOrth were able to heal those wounds and put the past behind them, is a masterpiece of political brilliance and goodwill.

For you, many generations after the fact, to monday morning quarterback on how they did it, and how well they did it, is laughably arrogant and stupid.

Definitely heal the wounds....celebrating the Confederacy has opened wounds of black Americans for 150 years
Confederate flags were used to taunt blacks and remind them of their former status

I suspect that blacks in the JIm Crow south had more important things to worry about than the Confederate Widows Society.


Indeed, that a harmless celebration of ancient history, is a high priority for you lefties, shows just how much progress on Civil Rights, for blacks, have been made. You really have to search for something to be "outraged" about.


Even as recently as the 1980s, no one cared about this made up issue.


View attachment 123705

LOL...Dukes of Hazard

More southern culture....what next?
Hee Haw?

 

[paperview]

Confederate Monuments are Participation Trophies for the Losers...You Lost Bigly ...Sad ..weak ...Losers

The one the just removed in N.O. was erected after the White Supremacist won back control. The struggle didn't end in 1877, that's just when a new phase began. 1877 was when the occupation troops left La.

This is true.

The one that has been removed at this point was not even one commemorating the Civil War (per se)
-- it was erected in 1891, and it was literally a tribute to White Supremacy.

They were celebrating and honoring the killing of police officers by white supremacists - the Crescent City White League, to be exact.



A commemoration to these guys


White League and Ku Klux Klan alliance, in illustration,
by Thomas Nast, in Harper's Weekly, October 24, 1874

 

[toxicmedia]

...Everything really shitty that has ever happened in America can be traced back to southern and Midwestern Conservatives

Exactly the type of hatred that drove the North to invade the South in 1861.

Maybe the Con-federates shouldn't have started the war then.

Maybe Lincoln ended it too soon Another month or 2 we might not have problems with racism now

Back to your Death Camp idea for Southerners again? How Socialist of you.

Hmmmmmm.....hadn't thought of it...but....now that you mention it

 

[toxicmedia]

Wow. Did you learn that from MSNBC or at your commune's school?

While there are certainly racists who support slavery, they are in the minority. A very small minority. The majority of Americans recognize slavery as an abomination even if, at the same time, they recognize a state's right to secede prior to the Civil War.

You are dancing around the issue

They seceded to protect their right to own slaves. They created a nation where 40% of the population was in slavery
That is what you are defending

Are you saying "repub nitwits still wish they could own a black or 2" or are you dancing around the issue?

Add to your percentage that only 6% owned slaves. So why were so many Confederates willing to fight and/or die in the Civil War? Was it to defend slavery or to defend their state from Northern aggression?

As we saw in the Civil Rights era, it went beyond those who owned slaves to maintaining a subclass of people that even the lowest white was superior to. No matter how bad I have it...at least I am better than a negro

They fought that battle for another 100 years

And when blacks started taking rednecks jobs the necks really got pissed

there are black rednecks, moron. Your ignorance is amazing

You're not getting it.

There is a formula.

White + evangelical + uneducated + Nascar fan + Gay hater + Republican + dental problems + religious intolerance + trailer park + no plumbing = redneck.

There is a lot more to being a redneck

 

[BlindBoo]

Confederate Monuments are Participation Trophies for the Losers...You Lost Bigly ...Sad ..weak ...Losers

The one the just removed in N.O. was erected after the White Supremacist won back control. The struggle didn't end in 1877, that's just when a new phase began. 1877 was when the occupation troops left La.

This is true.

The one that has been removed at this point was not even one commemorating the Civil War (per se)
-- it was erected in 1891, and it was literally a tribute to White Supremacy.

They were celebrating and honoring the killing of police officers by white supremacists - the Crescent City White League, to be exact.



A commemoration to these guys


White League and Ku Klux Klan alliance, in illustration,
by Thomas Nast, in Harper's Weekly, October 24, 1874

A history that cannot be denied.

 

[Correll]

As a region, the South of that time had taken horrific casualties and were experiencing great and long term economic pain.

That they and the NOrth were able to heal those wounds and put the past behind them, is a masterpiece of political brilliance and goodwill.

For you, many generations after the fact, to monday morning quarterback on how they did it, and how well they did it, is laughably arrogant and stupid.


Or would be except you are actually managing to divide and damage this nation with your race baiting and finger pointing.

The south paid a heavy price for their little "experiment"
They threw a temper tantrum when Lincoln got elected and tried to take their ball and go home. The rest of the world abandoned slavery without bloodshed.....the South was unwilling to do it without a fight. A fight that cost 600,000 lives for no reason

The Confederacy is not something that should be celebrated

Um, yeah, they paid a heavy price. That was part of my point.

Nothing in the of your post addresses the rest of my point.


Here it is again.

That they and the NOrth were able to heal those wounds and put the past behind them, is a masterpiece of political brilliance and goodwill.

For you, many generations after the fact, to monday morning quarterback on how they did it, and how well they did it, is laughably arrogant and stupid.

Definitely heal the wounds....celebrating the Confederacy has opened wounds of black Americans for 150 years
Confederate flags were used to taunt blacks and remind them of their former status

I suspect that blacks in the JIm Crow south had more important things to worry about than the Confederate Widows Society.


Indeed, that a harmless celebration of ancient history, is a high priority for you lefties, shows just how much progress on Civil Rights, for blacks, have been made. You really have to search for something to be "outraged" about.


Even as recently as the 1980s, no one cared about this made up issue.


View attachment 123705

LOL...Dukes of Hazard

More southern culture....what next?
Hee Haw?

Dukes of Hazzard was a NATIONAL hit. That makes it American Culture.


As was Hee Haw.

 

[Correll]

You are dancing around the issue

They seceded to protect their right to own slaves. They created a nation where 40% of the population was in slavery
That is what you are defending

Are you saying "repub nitwits still wish they could own a black or 2" or are you dancing around the issue?

Add to your percentage that only 6% owned slaves. So why were so many Confederates willing to fight and/or die in the Civil War? Was it to defend slavery or to defend their state from Northern aggression?

As we saw in the Civil Rights era, it went beyond those who owned slaves to maintaining a subclass of people that even the lowest white was superior to. No matter how bad I have it...at least I am better than a negro

They fought that battle for another 100 years

And when blacks started taking rednecks jobs the necks really got pissed

there are black rednecks, moron. Your ignorance is amazing

You're not getting it.

There is a formula.

White + evangelical + uneducated + Nascar fan + Gay hater + Republican + dental problems + religious intolerance + trailer park + no plumbing = redneck.

There is a lot more to being a redneck

Says the lefty lacking the self awareness to realize his is being a bigot.

 

[Divine Wind]

...Everything really shitty that has ever happened in America can be traced back to southern and Midwestern Conservatives

Exactly the type of hatred that drove the North to invade the South in 1861.

Maybe the Con-federates shouldn't have started the war then.

Maybe Lincoln ended it too soon Another month or 2 we might not have problems with racism now

Back to your Death Camp idea for Southerners again? How Socialist of you.

Hmmmmmm.....hadn't thought of it...but....now that you mention it

Good to see you being honest and coming clean about your Final Solution for Southerners.

 

[Correll]

The South should be celebrating moving beyond their racist past. Embrace the progress that has been made since the Civil Rights era. Make monuments to key Civil Rights leaders not to those who fought to maintain a slave state

And all the bells was ringing........

NOte the focus on the soldiers, the fight, and the complete absence of any racism or reference to slavery.

"Old Dixie" is reference enough. They weren't just defeated they were driven down in a war of attrition.

Here is Joan Baez marching at selma in 1965

Here is JOan Baez covering The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down, in 1971






IN 1971, the nation as a whole has for over 100 years, accepted as normal and harmless the South's celebration of various portions of the Confederacy as part of their Heritage.



This "outrage" is the manufacture of modern lefties that are just ginning up bullshit.

 

[edward37]

You are dancing around the issue

They seceded to protect their right to own slaves. They created a nation where 40% of the population was in slavery
That is what you are defending

Are you saying "repub nitwits still wish they could own a black or 2" or are you dancing around the issue?

Add to your percentage that only 6% owned slaves. So why were so many Confederates willing to fight and/or die in the Civil War? Was it to defend slavery or to defend their state from Northern aggression?

As we saw in the Civil Rights era, it went beyond those who owned slaves to maintaining a subclass of people that even the lowest white was superior to. No matter how bad I have it...at least I am better than a negro

They fought that battle for another 100 years

And when blacks started taking rednecks jobs the necks really got pissed

there are black rednecks, moron. Your ignorance is amazing

You're not getting it.

There is a formula.

White + evangelical + uneducated + Nascar fan + Gay hater + Republican + dental problems + religious intolerance + trailer park + no plumbing = redneck.

There is a lot more to being a redneck

You left out related to each other

 

[bodecea]

By focusing on the bravery of the soldiers and the cultural heritage of the South, and pretty much ignoring the institute of slavery, the southerns of the late 1800s pretty much already made that leap.


What this is really about for you lefties is smearing your modern day enemies and undermining American History.

Seems more like they whitewashed history to create the image of a Grand Confederacy. It was not grand, it was an abomination created to ensure slavery would exist forever.

Their REAL heroes were the blacks and civil rights workers who stood up and risked their lives to put an end to Jim Crow

As a region, the South of that time had taken horrific casualties and were experiencing great and long term economic pain.

That they and the NOrth were able to heal those wounds and put the past behind them, is a masterpiece of political brilliance and goodwill.

For you, many generations after the fact, to monday morning quarterback on how they did it, and how well they did it, is laughably arrogant and stupid.


Or would be except you are actually managing to divide and damage this nation with your race baiting and finger pointing.

The south paid a heavy price for their little "experiment"
They threw a temper tantrum when Lincoln got elected and tried to take their ball and go home. The rest of the world abandoned slavery without bloodshed.....the South was unwilling to do it without a fight. A fight that cost 600,000 lives for no reason

The Confederacy is not something that should be celebrated

Um, yeah, they paid a heavy price. That was part of my point.

Nothing in the of your post addresses the rest of my point.


Here it is again.

That they and the NOrth were able to heal those wounds and put the past behind them, is a masterpiece of political brilliance and goodwill.

For you, many generations after the fact, to monday morning quarterback on how they did it, and how well they did it, is laughably arrogant and stupid.

Definitely heal the wounds....celebrating the Confederacy has opened wounds of black Americans for 150 years
Confederate flags were used to taunt blacks and remind them of their former status

Waving a confederate flag and playing "Dixie" as Civil Rights marchers go by

They do the same thing that N. Irish Orangemen do....marching thru Catholic neighborhoods to taunt.

 

[bodecea]

Exactly the type of hatred that drove the North to invade the South in 1861.

Maybe the Con-federates shouldn't have started the war then.

Maybe Lincoln ended it too soon Another month or 2 we might not have problems with racism now

Back to your Death Camp idea for Southerners again? How Socialist of you.

Hmmmmmm.....hadn't thought of it...but....now that you mention it

Good to see you being honest and coming clean about your Final Solution for Southerners.

Let's see....who ran Andersonville???

 

[Divine Wind]

The South should be celebrating moving beyond their racist past. Embrace the progress that has been made since the Civil Rights era. Make monuments to key Civil Rights leaders not to those who fought to maintain a slave state

And all the bells was ringing........

NOte the focus on the soldiers, the fight, and the complete absence of any racism or reference to slavery.

"Old Dixie" is reference enough. They weren't just defeated they were driven down in a war of attrition.

Here is Joan Baez marching at selma in 1965

Here is JOan Baez covering The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down, in 1971






IN 1971, the nation as a whole has for over 100 years, accepted as normal and harmless the South's celebration of various portions of the Confederacy as part of their Heritage.



This "outrage" is the manufacture of modern lefties that are just ginning up bullshit.

Agreed. The problem with racial politics is that, when they win, they lose by virtue of the fact they have nothing left to fight for. Therefore, they must continue to manufacture reasons to generate interest and, of course, funds and donations in which to line their pockets.