Why Libertarianism Is So Dangerous...

[bripat9643]

After all this I still am left with the same questions as well.

No one ever spoke to how it is possible to fund things like a modern military, police, fire and the hundreds of other things that the government across all levels takes care of with a ‘voluntary’ system. Again, a question I asked a many posts ago, how do you take a voluntary use charge for those services? It is not like I am going to ‘use’ police, fire or military (the last one is the most stark and federal).

I also submit that a use charge like taxing gas transactions for roads is just as voluntary as property taxes for purchasing a piece of property. BOTH are forced charges for the purchase of an item and both are aggressive in that manner.

I agree. All taxes are ultimately enforced at the point of a gun.

Personally, I don’t see ANY way for government to obtain any funds that are not forcible purchases. That is simply how the government operates. IF fees are applied to international goods, the government is FORCING you to pay a charge that you are not consenting to if they purchase that product. The same applies to any charge.

TASB, if you have not already walked away in frustraition I would like some more insight on this. As you have explained property taxes as forced, I don’t see how that explanation cannot be applied to ANY use charge from the government.

Whether the libertarian scheme is workable is entirely another discussion. My only purpose here is to quash the notion that there is such a thing as "voluntary taxes." There aren't. That's why taxing people to achieve some aim is always a moral issue.

You are FOS. Show me one pic of an tax agent point a gun to your head to get you to pay your bill.

What do you think will happen when you don't pay your property taxes?

 

[RKMBrown]

I agree. All taxes are ultimately enforced at the point of a gun.



Whether the libertarian scheme is workable is entirely another discussion. My only purpose here is to quash the notion that there is such a thing as "voluntary taxes." There aren't. That's why taxing people to achieve some aim is always a moral issue.

You are FOS. Show me one pic of an tax agent point a gun to your head to get you to pay your bill.

Excude me ding dong, but the BATF - a branch of the US Treasury - was in Waco, TX because the Davidians had a $200.0 Tax Bill.

Wake the fuck up.

.

Tax agent trying to collect a 200 tax bill killed all those people? Do you have a Link? I heard the ATF and FBI were there to look into a report of illegal weapons and sexual abuse of the children. You really think there are tax collectors who rove around killing Americans when they are short on their tax bill? ROFL

 

[RKMBrown]

I agree. All taxes are ultimately enforced at the point of a gun.



Whether the libertarian scheme is workable is entirely another discussion. My only purpose here is to quash the notion that there is such a thing as "voluntary taxes." There aren't. That's why taxing people to achieve some aim is always a moral issue.

You are FOS. Show me one pic of an tax agent point a gun to your head to get you to pay your bill.

What do you think will happen when you don't pay your property taxes?

If I don't pay my property taxes? They will bump up the bill with late fees and interest. If I do so after I turn 65 or after I make a claim to be "disabled" they will do nothing other than place a lien on the property that they will collect by selling my property after I die.

 

[bripat9643]

You are FOS. Show me one pic of an tax agent point a gun to your head to get you to pay your bill.

What do you think will happen when you don't pay your property taxes?

If I don't pay my property taxes? They will bump up the bill with late fees and interest. If I do so after I turn 65 or after I make a claim to be "disabled" they will do nothing other than place a lien on the property that they will collect by selling my property after I die.

Wrong. At some point the county sheriff will come and kick you out of your house. He'll have a gun.

Ever heard of a tax auction? The properties the county is auctioning off formerly belonged to people who didn't pay their property taxes.

Also, even if they sell your property after you die, that means they took it from your heirs by force.

 

[Oddball]

Battle of wits, unarmed person, and all that.

 

[RKMBrown]

What do you think will happen when you don't pay your property taxes?

If I don't pay my property taxes? They will bump up the bill with late fees and interest. If I do so after I turn 65 or after I make a claim to be "disabled" they will do nothing other than place a lien on the property that they will collect by selling my property after I die.

Wrong. At some point the county sheriff will come and kick you out of your house. He'll have a gun.

Ever heard of a tax auction? The properties the county is auctioning off formerly belonged to people who didn't pay their property taxes.

Also, even if they sell your property after you die, that means they took it from your heirs by force.

It's not my heirs inheritance if I don't pay my bills dufus.

 

[bripat9643]

If I don't pay my property taxes? They will bump up the bill with late fees and interest. If I do so after I turn 65 or after I make a claim to be "disabled" they will do nothing other than place a lien on the property that they will collect by selling my property after I die.

Wrong. At some point the county sheriff will come and kick you out of your house. He'll have a gun.

Ever heard of a tax auction? The properties the county is auctioning off formerly belonged to people who didn't pay their property taxes.

Also, even if they sell your property after you die, that means they took it from your heirs by force.

It's not my heirs inheritance if I don't pay my bills dufus.

You mean if you mean if you don't pay Guido his protection money.

 

[bripat9643]

Battle of wits, unarmed person, and all that.

I'm trying to be polite to the guy, but it's getting hard.

 

[RKMBrown]

Wrong. At some point the county sheriff will come and kick you out of your house. He'll have a gun.

Ever heard of a tax auction? The properties the county is auctioning off formerly belonged to people who didn't pay their property taxes.

Also, even if they sell your property after you die, that means they took it from your heirs by force.

It's not my heirs inheritance if I don't pay my bills dufus.

You mean if you mean if you don't pay Guido his protection money.

Your a sick mother ___ if you think your police, fire, rescue, and teachers that work for YOU are no different than leg breakers who work for the mob killing, murdering, selling drugs, breaking knee caps for profit and such.

 

[bripat9643]

It's not my heirs inheritance if I don't pay my bills dufus.

You mean if you mean if you don't pay Guido his protection money.

Your a sick mother ___ if you think your police, fire, rescue, and teachers that work for YOU are no different than leg breakers who work for the mob killing, murdering, selling drugs, breaking knee caps for profit and such.

They employ exactly the same method to market their services, asshole. The government murders, imprisons and breaks legs all the time.

Government has always been little more than a means for one group of people to extract resources from another. That's all it will ever be.

Since you've decided to drop any pretense of civility, I won't fail to point out the idiocy of your beliefs from now on.

 

[RKMBrown]

You mean if you mean if you don't pay Guido his protection money.

Your a sick mother ___ if you think your police, fire, rescue, and teachers that work for YOU are no different than leg breakers who work for the mob killing, murdering, selling drugs, breaking knee caps for profit and such.

They employ exactly the same method to market their services, asshole. The government murders, imprisons and breaks legs all the time.

Government has always been little more than a means for one group of people to extract resources from another. That's all it will ever be.

Since you've decided to drop any pretense of civility, I won't fail to point out the idiocy of your beliefs from now on.

You've got to be the dumbest jerk in the history of mankind. Yeah your kindergarten teacher raped you, killed your best friend, then came to your house and pillaged your families life savings. What a jerk.

 

[TemplarKormac]

After what the government did today, it proves why Libertarianism is essential!

 

[TemplarKormac]

Your a sick mother ___ if you think your police, fire, rescue, and teachers that work for YOU are no different than leg breakers who work for the mob killing, murdering, selling drugs, breaking knee caps for profit and such.

They employ exactly the same method to market their services, asshole. The government murders, imprisons and breaks legs all the time.

Government has always been little more than a means for one group of people to extract resources from another. That's all it will ever be.

Since you've decided to drop any pretense of civility, I won't fail to point out the idiocy of your beliefs from now on.

You've got to be the dumbest jerk in the history of mankind. Yeah your kindergarten teacher raped you, killed your best friend, then came to your house and pillaged your families life savings. What a jerk.

Wow... who peed in your Wheaties? If you can't handle what other people dish out, ignore them or log out, your choice.

 

[RKMBrown]

They employ exactly the same method to market their services, asshole. The government murders, imprisons and breaks legs all the time.

Government has always been little more than a means for one group of people to extract resources from another. That's all it will ever be.

Since you've decided to drop any pretense of civility, I won't fail to point out the idiocy of your beliefs from now on.

You've got to be the dumbest jerk in the history of mankind. Yeah your kindergarten teacher raped you, killed your best friend, then came to your house and pillaged your families life savings. What a jerk.

Wow... who peed in your Wheaties? If you can't handle what other people dish out, ignore them or log out, your choice.

No defense for your firemen who die for you? No defense for your police who die for you? No defense for your kindergarten teacher? Just let him call them all leg breakers because they accept a low paid job working for the public? They get hired by us and he want's it all for free cause paying them would be equivalent to making payoffs to the drug cartel? I suppose he was just kidding.

 

[Eric Cartman]

What do you think will happen when you don't pay your property taxes?

If I don't pay my property taxes? They will bump up the bill with late fees and interest. If I do so after I turn 65 or after I make a claim to be "disabled" they will do nothing other than place a lien on the property that they will collect by selling my property after I die.

Wrong. At some point the county sheriff will come and kick you out of your house. He'll have a gun.

Ever heard of a tax auction? The properties the county is auctioning off formerly belonged to people who didn't pay their property taxes.

Also, even if they sell your property after you die, that means they took it from your heirs by force.

This all seems kind of silly. Property rights are granted by the government. There is no natural right to property. It is completely arbitrary and decided by government, just as who the 'heir' to your property is arbitrary because you don't own anything when you are dead. So if the government 'takes' your property because you didn't follow the rules of 'ownership', how is that different then when you acquired the property through whatever arbitrary rules the government setup for acquisition?

 

[bripat9643]

They employ exactly the same method to market their services, asshole. The government murders, imprisons and breaks legs all the time.

Government has always been little more than a means for one group of people to extract resources from another. That's all it will ever be.

Since you've decided to drop any pretense of civility, I won't fail to point out the idiocy of your beliefs from now on.

You've got to be the dumbest jerk in the history of mankind. Yeah your kindergarten teacher raped you, killed your best friend, then came to your house and pillaged your families life savings. What a jerk.

Wow... who peed in your Wheaties? If you can't handle what other people dish out, ignore them or log out, your choice.

The dipstick just can't handle the fact that all his naive notions about government and taxation are wrong. That's often how people react when their worldview is destroyed.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

If I don't pay my property taxes? They will bump up the bill with late fees and interest. If I do so after I turn 65 or after I make a claim to be "disabled" they will do nothing other than place a lien on the property that they will collect by selling my property after I die.

Wrong. At some point the county sheriff will come and kick you out of your house. He'll have a gun.

Ever heard of a tax auction? The properties the county is auctioning off formerly belonged to people who didn't pay their property taxes.

Also, even if they sell your property after you die, that means they took it from your heirs by force.

This all seems kind of silly. Property rights are granted by the government. There is no natural right to property. It is completely arbitrary and decided by government, just as who the 'heir' to your property is arbitrary because you don't own anything when you are dead. So if the government 'takes' your property because you didn't follow the rules of 'ownership', how is that different then when you acquired the property through whatever arbitrary rules the government setup for acquisition?

Thanks for proving my point. In your mind, the government owns all the property adn allows you to rent (serf) some of it as long as you follow their rules and pay their taxes. In other words, Guido owns all the land and you can either pay him to rent some, leave the area immediately or Guido will break your legs or worse.

Government is nothing more than an extortion racket.

Property is a natural right. It's not arbitrary in ethics. If you build a house and till a plot of land that was vacant, it now belongs to you. You own yourself, and therefore your labor. What you're suggesting is absolutely no different than what happened in times of kings. They owned the land and allowed the peasants to serf it as long as they paid the taxes and gave up whatever other demand was instilled. At the threat of brute force. I suppose you believe government has the divine right to rule?

 

[bripat9643]

If I don't pay my property taxes? They will bump up the bill with late fees and interest. If I do so after I turn 65 or after I make a claim to be "disabled" they will do nothing other than place a lien on the property that they will collect by selling my property after I die.

Wrong. At some point the county sheriff will come and kick you out of your house. He'll have a gun.

Ever heard of a tax auction? The properties the county is auctioning off formerly belonged to people who didn't pay their property taxes.

Also, even if they sell your property after you die, that means they took it from your heirs by force.

This all seems kind of silly. Property rights are granted by the government. There is no natural right to property.

ROFL! That's pure idiocy. By what moral principle does government have any rights over any property to dish out? The government simply has the power to do it. All you've done is enunciate the liberal principle of morality that might makes right.

It is completely arbitrary and decided by government, just as who the 'heir' to your property is arbitrary because you don't own anything when you are dead.

You're just one vast fountain of idiocy. Have you ever heard of something called a "Last Will and Testament?" That determines who the owner of your property the second you're dead.

So if the government 'takes' your property because you didn't follow the rules of 'ownership', how is that different then when you acquired the property through whatever arbitrary rules the government setup for acquisition?

Rules for property ownership are no more "arbitrary" than rules against murder, rape and theft. Do you think it's purely "arbitrary" that government imposes stiff penalties for murder and robbery? If government gave out rewards for killing and robbing your neighbors, civilization would collapse. The same goes for rules about property. Only prehensile morons who want to expropriate property believe otherwise.

 

[Mac1958]

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Let us all bow and thank the federal government for the gifts it provides us.

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[RKMBrown]

Rules for property ownership are no more "arbitrary" than rules against murder, rape and theft. Do you think it's purely "arbitrary" that government imposes stiff penalties for murder and robbery? If government gave out rewards for killing and robbing your neighbors, civilization would collapse. The same goes for rules about property. Only prehensile morons who want to expropriate property believe otherwise.

So your against all laws, including laws against murder, rape, and theft. Yeah, you are definitely an anarchist.