Why Ted Cruz Will NOT Win A Contested Convention

[Liquid Reigns]

Obama produced a Hawaiian birth certificate. Now whether or not it's authentic is up for grabs. But Cruz ACTUALLY PRODUCED A CANADIAN BIRTH CERTIFICATE...and does not denounce it! He can't singularly change the US Laws set up to protect our national security from the very earliest days simply because he wants what he wants..

And what U.S. law would that be?

What U.S. law says that a person born in Canada cannot be President?

I say this as someone who think Cruz is not qualified to be President.

The bone of contention is the meaning of the phrase "natural born" in the U.S. Constitution (that's the U.S. Law you're looking for), some Constitutional Scholars contend that it means born on U.S. soil based on the English Common Law meaning of the phrase, there is also the 1790 Naturalization Act which specifies that children born to at least one United States parent (even outside U.S. soil) are U.S. Citizens, however since they are only U.S. citizens because of this 1790 Act (an act of congress) that would make them NATURALIZED (by an act of congress) as opposed to NATURAL BORN (by an act of nature).

IMHO It's a rather prickly legal distinction but the OP has a point, there's a valid potential challenge to Cruz's eligibility if SCOTUS were to decide to take it up and a Cruz nomination does carry a risk that SCOTUS will do so and rule against him.

The 1790 required both parents to be US Citizens, not "at least one".

Nope- no such requirement.

View attachment 71269

Of course the Act of 1790 was superceded by the Act of 1795, and that was also superceded.

But certainly the men who wrote the Act of 1790 knew what the Constitution meant by 'natural born citizen'- and had no objection to the idea that a child born overseas to citizens of the United States was a natural born citizen.

Then why does it mandate that the father (white only) must have at least resided in the US, since women held no such authority? Back then there were no maternity tests to determine the father. Women were granted the citizenship status of the husband once married if different than their birth citizenship. Children born bastards, outside the ligeance of the King, were deemed children of said country in which they were born.

Yes, the 1795 Act superseded the 1790 Act, and so forth.

If those that wrote the USC had no objection then there would have been no need to create law and then turn around and change the law. I suggest a good reading and understanding of the Wong Kim Ark case to recognize history, since our laws are run-ons of the English Common Law for citizenship. Both parents being English subjects in English territories were required to make a natural born subject

 

[Cecilie1200]

Again, I will gladly point out to the Trump Whiners who complain about "voice of the people" being ignored.... Trump currently has received 37% of the popular vote nationwide yet holds 45% of the delegates.... So you need to tell Mr. Trump that you support "voice of the people" in this process and he needs to release 8% of his delegates immediately.

Otherwise... Shut your pie hole!

Hey Boss, what was the vote count in Colorado? HINT - consider in your answer that there was NO vote in Colorado. How is that accounted for in
". Trump currently has received 37% of the popular vote nationwide yet holds 45% of the delegates..."?
I know you can see there is something wrong in Colorado.

What the fuck is wrong with you people, did you never study this stuff in high school? Each state has it's own rules for caucuses and primaries. There is not a ballot vote for candidates in Colorado. Previously, they have had "presidential preference" polls but delegates are not bound by those. In 2015, the Republican Party of Colorado decided not to have the preference polls and awarded the delegates through county caucuses.

Fact is, in MOST states, you do not vote directly for a candidate, you vote for their delegates... IF you vote at all. Some states hold caucuses.... some hold primaries. It's how the system works and how it's been working for as long as we've held presidential elections. You act like this is some kind of new unprecedented thing that just happened in Colorado because the GOP didn't want to count the votes or something.

If Trump had won the delegates in Colorado, there would have been absolutely nothing said about this. The ONLY REASON it is a story is because TRUMP started claiming outrage over the process... a process he knew full well was going to be as it was for the entirety of this campaign. He failed to secure the delegates through the process laid out by the state party and now he wants to cry foul. You abject MORONS join in the chorus because you're apparently ILLITERATE about how the process works. I learned about this stuff in 8th grade!

So why don't you morons go learn something about how we nominate candidates in America and shut the fuck up with your incessant whining and moaning. I can't help that you're an illiterate. I can't do anything about the rules of the Republican Party of Colorado. They don't ask me what I think, I don't get included in their decisions. Ted Cruz doesn't either. So what the fuck do you expect us to do about that? You think maybe Ted Cruz should refuse to accept Colorado's delegates or something? Maybe he should just resign from the party in protest? Is THAT what you expect to happen?

I totally don't get this! What the hell are you people expecting to happen here? You think if you bitch and moan enough, Colorado might change it's mind and hold a primary or something? I don't think any of this stuff is going to happen and I think you're all going to have to just grow the fuck up and learn to live with this. I don't know what else to tell you but the incessant whining and complaining isn't serving any purpose.

Boss, I left the Republican Party about 8 years ago for 2 main reasons- I no longer wanted to be associated with the religious right (their dogma was really creeping me out) and the leadership seemed spineless in the defense and advancement of conservative ideas, so I concluded there was no point. Cast my first vote for Ronnie R. and have never picked a Dem over a Rep since. I own guns and hate commies.

Here at ground zero in Colorado, there are a lot of Good conservative people pissed as hell about the shenanigans in the process. Call them whiny morons if you like, tell them they are too stupid to understand the process, say they are illiterate because they don't spend the time you do studying the system..........and then scratch your arrogant head in November wondering how a person like Hillary can become President.

The GOP is getting what it sows, and they have elitist intellectuals like you to carry their water for them. That's sad man.

Seems like what there are in Colorado are a bunch of lazy couch monkeys who think "shenanigans" is anything that requires them to actually pay attention, think, and put in a little effort, rather than just waking up one morning, going, "Oh, geez, there's a vote!" and trundling down to a polling place to fill in a bubble on a piece of paper for a name they barely recognize.

There at ground zero in Colorado, you had your chance for your precious vote last month, March 1. That's when their county precincts held caucuses for them to choose their delegates to the next level of meetings. All registered Republicans in the precinct were eligible to vote in those caucuses. There were notices sent out, as well as posted all over the web pages for the county GOPs, and has been for months.

So . . . who did you vote for at YOUR precinct caucus?

He didnt

I know. If he had, he'd know that he, and other Republicans in Colorado, HAD a chance to vote, and many of them were too docile from their Cheetos coma to figure it out.

 

[Cecilie1200]

COLORADO GOP DECIDES VOTERS DON'T NEED TO VOTE. WAIT! WHAT?

The plan was to hold caucus meetings to select delegates not pledged to any particular candidate, in order for the Colorado delegation to have more influence. But it didn’t work out that way. When the Convention met on Saturday, Cruz operatives were able to place Cruz delegates into all 34 slots.

And according to Republican delegate hopeful Larry Wayne Lindsey, he was refused credentials because he was a Trump supporter. “I’ve been in line for about 45 mins trying to get into the arena for the caucus. I am a delegate but we’ll see whether or not they have provided my credentials for me. I as threatened if I tried to vote for trump I would be replaced, my vote nullified, and they would replace me with an alternate of their choosing.”

A little later, when he was denied entry to the convention, Lindsey said, “I guess my precinct captain made good on her threats. My name is no longer on the roster as a delegate. I have been removed and replaced. My vote nullified because I voted for Trump. I am unbelievably pissed. I am sick to death with how dishonest and corrupt these people are in Douglas county for the GOP. I’m ashamed to call myself a republican.”

So Cruz maneuvered, and plotted, and got his people named as Colorado delegates.

And there was never a vote among Colorado Republicans.

Instead Cruz won 34 delegates in a system in Colorado that didn’t even bother to ask voters.

A rigged system?

Certainly looks that way.

No, it's just a system, one that Cruz took the time to understand and work with, and Trump decided he could bypass with his usual dog-and-pony show. Trump failed, and Cruz didn't.

Right Cecilie, but can you please explain the republican nomination system in Colorado?

Forgive me, I am a Colorado native, and I never took the civics class required to understand the Republican nomination process here. But If you live here, you will know I am not alone. The local talk shows have taken to bringing on experts to explain it. Thank God! Here is what I think I've learned-

There is no voting
You may or may not be able to voice an opinion, but only for 10 seconds.
There is no voting
People you don't know will do all the important stuff.
There is no voting
You'll will find out who you want as nominee when they tell you.
Oh and there is no voting

I don't live in Colorado. I frankly had to sit down and figure out the basics myself when this whole thing broke over the weekend, and I think the Colorado GOP is a giant clusterfuck at the moment.

As far as I can determine, Colorado had a caucus system that was very vulnerable to fringe candidates who otherwise got nowhere in the primary and were quite likely not even still in the race by convention time, which basically left Colorado disenfranchised at the convention, at least on the first ballot. There was a push to replace it with a primary, but the party got caught up in a quagmire of factional squabbling. They had looked at having a binding straw poll, but rejected it. I believe they are still planning to have a straw poll that is not binding, but after this kerfuffle, they may decide not to.

Back in August, the Colorado GOP announced that they wouldn't be holding a primary or a caucus, but would instead have a convention of delegates, with - apparently - a bunch of confusing procedures. Not having been there, I can't even begin to explain the vast majority of those. But they were all made publicly available, and certainly provided to the individual campaigns. We do know from statements by Trump campaign strategists that he did get those rules and procedures, and decided that the system would not favor him, and so decided to basically blow the state off.

Colorado will send 37 delegates to the GOP convention. Of those, 13 delegates were actually assigned at the convention over the weekend, chosen by the votes of the delegates to the state convention. Another 21 were awarded by Congressional district in votes held in those districts throughout the week, also delegate votes, one assumes. Ted Cruz had already picked up six of those by the time Trump's campaign even got around to putting staff into the area. The last three Colorado delegates are so-called "super delegates", who go to the national convention with the ability to vote however they like.

For the record, there ended up being something like 619 or so candidates running for the 13 delegate slots at the convention. About 30% or so of those running were Cruz supporters. Only 7 percent were Trump supporters, and the rest were running as uncommitted. So without actually going and putting in the legwork, Trump didn't have a hope in Hell of taking home any of those delegate slots, no matter what else happened.

Now, at the convention, the candidates for the delegate slots are all assigned a number, and they appear on the ballot only by number, one assumes because 619 candidates would take up a lot of space. The party issued a program listing all the candidate names and numbers, but without any indication of who they were supporting. Apparently, the program was badly printed and the list stopped at #589 or thereabouts, requiring them to provide an amendment to post the rest of the names. One of the bitches by the Trump people is that "not everyone got that information", but since they put the correction up on two big-ass screens over the main stage and everyone else seemed to manage to figure it out, one wonders what the Trump people were doing with their time instead.

Various factions at the convention put together a favored slate of candidates according to whom they were supporting, and passed out printed guides as to who was on those slates. Trump's people put out printed sheets that contained numerous errors, such as mislabeling people with the wrong number. They issued corrections, which themselves were full of errors.

In addition to their fuck-up with the programs, the Colorado GOP also managed to include a typo in the ballot itself. One delegate number was left off, and in its place the previous delegate number was listed twice. Like I said, the Colorado GOP appears to have all the organizational skills of a middle school campaign for student body president.

Trump simply screwed up and is not about to admit it. Being an outsider he didn't and probably still doesn't understand how the delegate selection process actually works. Each of the states Republican Committees make up their own rules, changes them at will, interpret them and enforces them. They have always bent the rules and ignored them and this is news to Trump.

As an outsider in government, we can expect exactly the same behavior from Trump when he learns political deal making is nothing like business.

In Trump's current tirade about how unfairly he's being treated, change establishment and GOP to congress and the courts and you'll have a preview of Trump's weekly press conferences as president.

Well, like his no-info voters, he really did think this entire process was about mobocracy. You just whip a bunch of disgruntled Gomers into a frenzy and they sweep you into office in a clamor.

In fact, of course, he is a prime example of the reason our primaries and elections are on the republic model, designed to resist mobocracy.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The requirement of a person running for President of the United States is that s/he be a natural born citizen. Rafael Edward "Ted" Cruz is a natural born citizen of Alberta, Canada.

And if you think a Cruz nomination will not be challenged at the 11th hour by the left and their pocket liberal-majority on the USSC, eager to see one of their own take the empty Seat there for life to get a lock on their liberal majority for the next generation, you need to have your head examined.

http://www.newsweek.com/ted-cruz-canadian-citizen-415430 A growing number of constitutional law scholars are arguing that Ted Cruz’s birth in Canada makes him ineligible to become U.S. president...An increasing number of high-profile constitutional law professors, including one of Cruz's own professors from Harvard Law School, have in recent days argued publicly that Cruz's birth disqualifies him.... English common law was "unequivocal" on the subject, McManamon says: "Natural-born subjects had to be born in English territory."

Ultimately the USSC *sudden Decision* probably late this Summer or in September will be that what matters is the INTENT of the original law. The intent of course is to insure that because of the potential for foreign influence, the Office of POTUS must be completely scrubbed of potential for contamination. Other things that will be pondered as to this intent is also the requirement that a person reside continually within the US for a number of years just prior to running, in addition to being natural born.

For you see, the 14th Amendment means that even though it's "nice little ole' Canada" today, "born to a mommy born in the US"...tomorrow it can also legally be a Russian boy born to a Russian mother by a US-born serviceman on shore leave. And you cannot discriminate based on gender or country of origin, don't forget.

So, for the GOP to nominate (or to continue the charade further) with Ted Cruz would be political suicide. It's true that one of the two remaining "not Trump" candidates should leave the race so the other can legitimately finish off Trump. So let it be the one who isn't eligible to run anyway...

Cruz wont win a contested convention because everyone knows he is the one candidate that hillary can get 350+ electoral votes against

Everyone being you and your 47 cats?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Obama produced a Hawaiian birth certificate. Now whether or not it's authentic is up for grabs. But Cruz ACTUALLY PRODUCED A CANADIAN BIRTH CERTIFICATE...and does not denounce it! He can't singularly change the US Laws set up to protect our national security from the very earliest days simply because he wants what he wants..

And what U.S. law would that be?

What U.S. law says that a person born in Canada cannot be President?

I say this as someone who think Cruz is not qualified to be President.

The bone of contention is the meaning of the phrase "natural born" in the U.S. Constitution (that's the U.S. Law you're looking for), some Constitutional Scholars contend that it means born on U.S. soil based on the English Common Law meaning of the phrase, there is also the 1790 Naturalization Act which specifies that children born to at least one United States parent (even outside U.S. soil) are U.S. Citizens, however since they are only U.S. citizens because of this 1790 Act (an act of congress) that would make them NATURALIZED (by an act of congress) as opposed to NATURAL BORN (by an act of nature).

IMHO It's a rather prickly legal distinction but the OP has a point, there's a valid potential challenge to Cruz's eligibility if SCOTUS were to decide to take it up and a Cruz nomination does carry a risk that SCOTUS will do so and rule against him.

The 1790 required both parents to be US Citizens, not "at least one".

That's nice. What year is it now?

 

[Flopper]

I believe the courts recently put that challenge in file 13.

One court has ruled that Cruz is eligible.

Sure there will be other challenges. I am surprised that Trump hasn't really pushed harder on the issue- after all Trump is a huge Birther and has used the issue to remind Americans that Cruz was not born in the United States- which appeals to Trumps base.

It wasn't a court that said he was eligible, it was the states committee allowing him to be on the ballot in that state.

I believe his title was administrative judge which is a judge who both presides over trials and adjudicates the claims or disputes

 

[Flopper]

Cruz has already won countless challenges to that. If that's what you're strategy is relying on, you better have a plan B

Cruz hasn't won any challenges against him. The cases have been denied for various reasons, late filing, no standing. failure to serve, etc. Only a candidate will be able to pursue based on standing, or Congress can flat out deny him if he is elected.

Ted Cruz is an American and can appear on N.J. primary ballot, judge says
TRENTON - Republican presidential candidate Ted Cruz is a "natural-born citizen" under the U.S. Constitution and therefore can run in the June 7 New Jersey primary, a state administrative law judge said Tuesday. "The more persuasive legal analysis is that such a child, born of a citizen-father, citizen-mother, or both, is indeed a 'natural born citizen' within the contemplation of the Constitution," Administrative Law Judge Jeff Masin wrote.

Seems like a win to me.

Cruz is eligible- just not qualified.

All the administrative law judge did was state that Cruz was allowed to be on the state ballot, his opinion that Cruz is a "natural-born citizen" is just his opinion. He goes on to state:

Masin wrote in a 26-page decision that the issue of whether a child born outside the U.S. to an American citizen is eligible to be president "can never be entirely free of doubt, at least barring a definitive ruling" of the U.S. Supreme Court.​

Again, all it did was qualify Cruz on the States ballot.

You should follow the links and read the full story instead of misleading snippets.
Ted Cruz is an American and can appear on N.J. primary ballot, judge says

As did the Pennsylvania judge, the Illinois Board of Election amd the Connecticut Board of Election. It seems highly unlikely that a federal court would even hear the case.

 

[Liquid Reigns]

Obama produced a Hawaiian birth certificate. Now whether or not it's authentic is up for grabs. But Cruz ACTUALLY PRODUCED A CANADIAN BIRTH CERTIFICATE...and does not denounce it! He can't singularly change the US Laws set up to protect our national security from the very earliest days simply because he wants what he wants..

And what U.S. law would that be?

What U.S. law says that a person born in Canada cannot be President?

I say this as someone who think Cruz is not qualified to be President.

The bone of contention is the meaning of the phrase "natural born" in the U.S. Constitution (that's the U.S. Law you're looking for), some Constitutional Scholars contend that it means born on U.S. soil based on the English Common Law meaning of the phrase, there is also the 1790 Naturalization Act which specifies that children born to at least one United States parent (even outside U.S. soil) are U.S. Citizens, however since they are only U.S. citizens because of this 1790 Act (an act of congress) that would make them NATURALIZED (by an act of congress) as opposed to NATURAL BORN (by an act of nature).

IMHO It's a rather prickly legal distinction but the OP has a point, there's a valid potential challenge to Cruz's eligibility if SCOTUS were to decide to take it up and a Cruz nomination does carry a risk that SCOTUS will do so and rule against him.

The 1790 required both parents to be US Citizens, not "at least one".

That's nice. What year is it now?

Maybe you should ask that of the person who originally posted about the 1790 Naturalization Act.

 

[Liquid Reigns]

I believe the courts recently put that challenge in file 13.

One court has ruled that Cruz is eligible.

Sure there will be other challenges. I am surprised that Trump hasn't really pushed harder on the issue- after all Trump is a huge Birther and has used the issue to remind Americans that Cruz was not born in the United States- which appeals to Trumps base.

It wasn't a court that said he was eligible, it was the states committee allowing him to be on the ballot in that state.

I believe his title was administrative judge which is a judge who both presides over trials and adjudicates the claims or disputes

And that has what to do with his statement?

Masin wrote in a 26-page decision that the issue of whether a child born outside the U.S. to an American citizen is eligible to be president "can never be entirely free of doubt, at least barring a definitive ruling" of the U.S. Supreme Court.​

 

[Liquid Reigns]

Cruz has already won countless challenges to that. If that's what you're strategy is relying on, you better have a plan B

Cruz hasn't won any challenges against him. The cases have been denied for various reasons, late filing, no standing. failure to serve, etc. Only a candidate will be able to pursue based on standing, or Congress can flat out deny him if he is elected.

Ted Cruz is an American and can appear on N.J. primary ballot, judge says
TRENTON - Republican presidential candidate Ted Cruz is a "natural-born citizen" under the U.S. Constitution and therefore can run in the June 7 New Jersey primary, a state administrative law judge said Tuesday. "The more persuasive legal analysis is that such a child, born of a citizen-father, citizen-mother, or both, is indeed a 'natural born citizen' within the contemplation of the Constitution," Administrative Law Judge Jeff Masin wrote.

Seems like a win to me.

Cruz is eligible- just not qualified.

All the administrative law judge did was state that Cruz was allowed to be on the state ballot, his opinion that Cruz is a "natural-born citizen" is just his opinion. He goes on to state:

Masin wrote in a 26-page decision that the issue of whether a child born outside the U.S. to an American citizen is eligible to be president "can never be entirely free of doubt, at least barring a definitive ruling" of the U.S. Supreme Court.​

Again, all it did was qualify Cruz on the States ballot.

You should follow the links and read the full story instead of misleading snippets.
Ted Cruz is an American and can appear on N.J. primary ballot, judge says

As did the Pennsylvania judge, the Illinois Board of Election amd the Connecticut Board of Election. It seems highly unlikely that a federal court would even hear the case.

Boards of election hold no legal authority in regards to Cruz's citizenship, only that he has qualified for that states ability to get on that states ballot. The Penn Judge was pretty much rebuked by the NJ Judge. A Federal Court won't hear any of it, as the issue must go through the DC Circuit as stated by the 9th Circuit.

Congress can choose to deny Cruz if he were to win the general election and even then SCOTUS wouldn't hear the case either, as Congress would have sole authority over the issue.

 

[Boss]

Obama produced a Hawaiian birth certificate. Now whether or not it's authentic is up for grabs. But Cruz ACTUALLY PRODUCED A CANADIAN BIRTH CERTIFICATE...and does not denounce it! He can't singularly change the US Laws set up to protect our national security from the very earliest days simply because he wants what he wants..

And what U.S. law would that be?

What U.S. law says that a person born in Canada cannot be President?

I say this as someone who think Cruz is not qualified to be President.

The bone of contention is the meaning of the phrase "natural born" in the U.S. Constitution (that's the U.S. Law you're looking for), some Constitutional Scholars contend that it means born on U.S. soil based on the English Common Law meaning of the phrase, there is also the 1790 Naturalization Act which specifies that children born to at least one United States parent (even outside U.S. soil) are U.S. Citizens, however since they are only U.S. citizens because of this 1790 Act (an act of congress) that would make them NATURALIZED (by an act of congress) as opposed to NATURAL BORN (by an act of nature).

IMHO It's a rather prickly legal distinction but the OP has a point, there's a valid potential challenge to Cruz's eligibility if SCOTUS were to decide to take it up and a Cruz nomination does carry a risk that SCOTUS will do so and rule against him.

The 1790 required both parents to be US Citizens, not "at least one".

That's nice. What year is it now?

Maybe you should ask that of the person who originally posted about the 1790 Naturalization Act.

The 1790 Naturalization Act was presented to show that being born on foreign soil has nothing to do with "natural born" and not to show what the current law says regarding citizenship. In 1790, slaves and Native Americans weren't citizens. It would be more than a century before women were even allowed to vote. The laws change, definitions of "natural born" don't change.

Maybe you should study Constitutional law from someone other than Larry Tribe?

 

[Boss]

Congress can choose to deny Cruz if he were to win the general election and even then SCOTUS wouldn't hear the case either, as Congress would have sole authority over the issue.

Nonsense. Sheer and utter nonsense.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Again, I will gladly point out to the Trump Whiners who complain about "voice of the people" being ignored.... Trump currently has received 37% of the popular vote nationwide yet holds 45% of the delegates.... So you need to tell Mr. Trump that you support "voice of the people" in this process and he needs to release 8% of his delegates immediately.

Otherwise... Shut your pie hole!

Hey Boss, what was the vote count in Colorado? HINT - consider in your answer that there was NO vote in Colorado. How is that accounted for in
". Trump currently has received 37% of the popular vote nationwide yet holds 45% of the delegates..."?
I know you can see there is something wrong in Colorado.

What the fuck is wrong with you people, did you never study this stuff in high school? Each state has it's own rules for caucuses and primaries. There is not a ballot vote for candidates in Colorado. Previously, they have had "presidential preference" polls but delegates are not bound by those. In 2015, the Republican Party of Colorado decided not to have the preference polls and awarded the delegates through county caucuses.

Fact is, in MOST states, you do not vote directly for a candidate, you vote for their delegates... IF you vote at all. Some states hold caucuses.... some hold primaries. It's how the system works and how it's been working for as long as we've held presidential elections. You act like this is some kind of new unprecedented thing that just happened in Colorado because the GOP didn't want to count the votes or something.

If Trump had won the delegates in Colorado, there would have been absolutely nothing said about this. The ONLY REASON it is a story is because TRUMP started claiming outrage over the process... a process he knew full well was going to be as it was for the entirety of this campaign. He failed to secure the delegates through the process laid out by the state party and now he wants to cry foul. You abject MORONS join in the chorus because you're apparently ILLITERATE about how the process works. I learned about this stuff in 8th grade!

So why don't you morons go learn something about how we nominate candidates in America and shut the fuck up with your incessant whining and moaning. I can't help that you're an illiterate. I can't do anything about the rules of the Republican Party of Colorado. They don't ask me what I think, I don't get included in their decisions. Ted Cruz doesn't either. So what the fuck do you expect us to do about that? You think maybe Ted Cruz should refuse to accept Colorado's delegates or something? Maybe he should just resign from the party in protest? Is THAT what you expect to happen?

I totally don't get this! What the hell are you people expecting to happen here? You think if you bitch and moan enough, Colorado might change it's mind and hold a primary or something? I don't think any of this stuff is going to happen and I think you're all going to have to just grow the fuck up and learn to live with this. I don't know what else to tell you but the incessant whining and complaining isn't serving any purpose.

Boss, I left the Republican Party about 8 years ago for 2 main reasons- I no longer wanted to be associated with the religious right (their dogma was really creeping me out) and the leadership seemed spineless in the defense and advancement of conservative ideas, so I concluded there was no point. Cast my first vote for Ronnie R. and have never picked a Dem over a Rep since. I own guns and hate commies.

Here at ground zero in Colorado, there are a lot of Good conservative people pissed as hell about the shenanigans in the process. Call them whiny morons if you like, tell them they are too stupid to understand the process, say they are illiterate because they don't spend the time you do studying the system..........and then scratch your arrogant head in November wondering how a person like Hillary can become President.

The GOP is getting what it sows, and they have elitist intellectuals like you to carry their water for them. That's sad man.

Seems like what there are in Colorado are a bunch of lazy couch monkeys who think "shenanigans" is anything that requires them to actually pay attention, think, and put in a little effort, rather than just waking up one morning, going, "Oh, geez, there's a vote!" and trundling down to a polling place to fill in a bubble on a piece of paper for a name they barely recognize.

There at ground zero in Colorado, you had your chance for your precious vote last month, March 1. That's when their county precincts held caucuses for them to choose their delegates to the next level of meetings. All registered Republicans in the precinct were eligible to vote in those caucuses. There were notices sent out, as well as posted all over the web pages for the county GOPs, and has been for months.

So . . . who did you vote for at YOUR precinct caucus?

exactly

 

[Liquid Reigns]

Congress can choose to deny Cruz if he were to win the general election and even then SCOTUS wouldn't hear the case either, as Congress would have sole authority over the issue.

Nonsense. Sheer and utter nonsense.

:yawn: Maybe you should read the US Constitution, specifically Amendment 20.

 

[Liquid Reigns]

The 1790 Naturalization Act was presented to show that being born on foreign soil has nothing to do with "natural born" and not to show what the current law says regarding citizenship.

No shit. Maybe you should take it up with the person that originally brought up the 1790 Act in this thread. SMFH

In 1790, slaves and Native Americans weren't citizens. It would be more than a century before women were even allowed to vote. The laws change, definitions of "natural born" don't change.

Again, No shit. "Freemen" who weren't white weren't citizens of the US either. SMFH

Maybe you should study Constitutional law from someone other than Larry Tribe?

Maybe you should try reading the discussion verse thinking you have some hold on knowledge that pertains to my comments. imjusayn

"Larry" Tribe (Cruz's own Constitutional Law Professor from Harvard) only claims Cruz in-eligible based on Cruz's claim of being an originalist when interpreting the USC, it is only under Progressives interpretation that Cruz would be considered a USC. Besides there are other Constitutional Scholars that all state the same as I have, which have already been shown to you in prior discussions and picked your link apart, but please enlighten us.

 

[BuckToothMoron]

Hey Boss, what was the vote count in Colorado? HINT - consider in your answer that there was NO vote in Colorado. How is that accounted for in
". Trump currently has received 37% of the popular vote nationwide yet holds 45% of the delegates..."?
I know you can see there is something wrong in Colorado.

What the fuck is wrong with you people, did you never study this stuff in high school? Each state has it's own rules for caucuses and primaries. There is not a ballot vote for candidates in Colorado. Previously, they have had "presidential preference" polls but delegates are not bound by those. In 2015, the Republican Party of Colorado decided not to have the preference polls and awarded the delegates through county caucuses.

Fact is, in MOST states, you do not vote directly for a candidate, you vote for their delegates... IF you vote at all. Some states hold caucuses.... some hold primaries. It's how the system works and how it's been working for as long as we've held presidential elections. You act like this is some kind of new unprecedented thing that just happened in Colorado because the GOP didn't want to count the votes or something.

If Trump had won the delegates in Colorado, there would have been absolutely nothing said about this. The ONLY REASON it is a story is because TRUMP started claiming outrage over the process... a process he knew full well was going to be as it was for the entirety of this campaign. He failed to secure the delegates through the process laid out by the state party and now he wants to cry foul. You abject MORONS join in the chorus because you're apparently ILLITERATE about how the process works. I learned about this stuff in 8th grade!

So why don't you morons go learn something about how we nominate candidates in America and shut the fuck up with your incessant whining and moaning. I can't help that you're an illiterate. I can't do anything about the rules of the Republican Party of Colorado. They don't ask me what I think, I don't get included in their decisions. Ted Cruz doesn't either. So what the fuck do you expect us to do about that? You think maybe Ted Cruz should refuse to accept Colorado's delegates or something? Maybe he should just resign from the party in protest? Is THAT what you expect to happen?

I totally don't get this! What the hell are you people expecting to happen here? You think if you bitch and moan enough, Colorado might change it's mind and hold a primary or something? I don't think any of this stuff is going to happen and I think you're all going to have to just grow the fuck up and learn to live with this. I don't know what else to tell you but the incessant whining and complaining isn't serving any purpose.

Boss, I left the Republican Party about 8 years ago for 2 main reasons- I no longer wanted to be associated with the religious right (their dogma was really creeping me out) and the leadership seemed spineless in the defense and advancement of conservative ideas, so I concluded there was no point. Cast my first vote for Ronnie R. and have never picked a Dem over a Rep since. I own guns and hate commies.

Here at ground zero in Colorado, there are a lot of Good conservative people pissed as hell about the shenanigans in the process. Call them whiny morons if you like, tell them they are too stupid to understand the process, say they are illiterate because they don't spend the time you do studying the system..........and then scratch your arrogant head in November wondering how a person like Hillary can become President.

The GOP is getting what it sows, and they have elitist intellectuals like you to carry their water for them. That's sad man.

Seems like what there are in Colorado are a bunch of lazy couch monkeys who think "shenanigans" is anything that requires them to actually pay attention, think, and put in a little effort, rather than just waking up one morning, going, "Oh, geez, there's a vote!" and trundling down to a polling place to fill in a bubble on a piece of paper for a name they barely recognize.

There at ground zero in Colorado, you had your chance for your precious vote last month, March 1. That's when their county precincts held caucuses for them to choose their delegates to the next level of meetings. All registered Republicans in the precinct were eligible to vote in those caucuses. There were notices sent out, as well as posted all over the web pages for the county GOPs, and has been for months.

So . . . who did you vote for at YOUR precinct caucus?

exactly

The reason these "lazy, moronic couch potatoes" are agitated is because their preference for the Republican nominee was never considered, or at least that is what they are screaming about here. The Republican GOP has confirmed that they have no system in place to poll or survey registered republicans who attend the precinct caucus.

 

[Silhouette]

The 1790 Naturalization Act was presented to show that being born on foreign soil has nothing to do with "natural born" and not to show what the current law says regarding citizenship. In 1790, slaves and Native Americans weren't citizens. It would be more than a century before women were even allowed to vote. The laws change, definitions of "natural born" don't change.

Maybe you should study Constitutional law from someone other than Larry Tribe?

You are processing that information through a "progressive" filter for important Federal Laws. You can't do that with the natural-born requirement. And that is because of the intent for the reason those words appeared at all...and the reasons why the FF set up limitations of differing varieties on various high offices in DC. That is: national security.

In fact, if you were to examine the problem from a progressive lens + its intent (national security), the USSC would have to find that the natural-born requirement is twice as important and twice as narrow today as it was in the past. Besides the early days of our country, with England, France and Spain trying to destroy us from within, today is the time when the potential to get that done is almost realized, given the economic, hacking and invasive assaults being pitted against our country like at its beginning.

So if you're looking for a progressive interpretation of natural-born, don't get your hopes up. Intent is everything in this case. And that is how the USSC will see it in September. Simply put, if Ted Cruz, born in Alberta Canada with that Canadian birth certificate, and not renouncing his citizenship until May of 2014 can be president with the only tenuous link to natural-born being that his mom many years before she essentially naturalized to Canada, then a US sailor on shore leave could sire a child in Russia, Iran, Korea, China and that child could spend its formative years in that foreign land and then slide on over to the US and take the POTUS position. That's as absurd as Citizens United, which leaves a back door for foreign money to influence our most sacred form of democracy and self-rule/self-determination: elections.

The buck has to stop somewhere. And Ted Cruz is it; or we are doomed.

 

[Syriusly]

Cruz has already won countless challenges to that. If that's what you're strategy is relying on, you better have a plan B

Cruz hasn't won any challenges against him. The cases have been denied for various reasons, late filing, no standing. failure to serve, etc. Only a candidate will be able to pursue based on standing, or Congress can flat out deny him if he is elected.

Ted Cruz is an American and can appear on N.J. primary ballot, judge says
TRENTON - Republican presidential candidate Ted Cruz is a "natural-born citizen" under the U.S. Constitution and therefore can run in the June 7 New Jersey primary, a state administrative law judge said Tuesday. "The more persuasive legal analysis is that such a child, born of a citizen-father, citizen-mother, or both, is indeed a 'natural born citizen' within the contemplation of the Constitution," Administrative Law Judge Jeff Masin wrote.

Seems like a win to me.

Cruz is eligible- just not qualified.

All the administrative law judge did was state that Cruz was allowed to be on the state ballot, his opinion that Cruz is a "natural-born citizen" is just his opinion. He goes on to state:

Masin wrote in a 26-page decision that the issue of whether a child born outside the U.S. to an American citizen is eligible to be president "can never be entirely free of doubt, at least barring a definitive ruling" of the U.S. Supreme Court.​

Again, all it did was qualify Cruz on the States ballot.

You should follow the links and read the full story instead of misleading snippets.
Ted Cruz is an American and can appear on N.J. primary ballot, judge says

Your claim was that Cruz has not won anything- here let me quote you:

Cruz hasn't won any challenges against him. The cases have been denied for various reasons, late filing, no standing. failure to serve, etc.

However- Cruz did win- the challenge was dismissed- not for 'late filing', not for 'lack of standing' and not for 'failure to serve' but based upon the judges determination that Cruz was indeed eligible.

Ted Cruz is an American and can appear on N.J. primary ballot, judge says
TRENTON - Republican presidential candidate Ted Cruz is a "natural-born citizen" under the U.S. Constitution and therefore can run in the June 7 New Jersey primary, a state administrative law judge said Tuesday. "The more persuasive legal analysis is that such a child, born of a citizen-father, citizen-mother, or both, is indeed a 'natural born citizen' within the contemplation of the Constitution," Administrative Law Judge Jeff Masin wrote.

Seems like a win to me. Cruz remains on the ballot- the judge ruled he was eligible.

Cruz is eligible- just not qualified.

 

[Syriusly]

. I suggest a good reading and understanding of the Wong Kim Ark case to recognize history, since our laws are run-ons of the English Common Law for citizenship. Both parents being English subjects in English territories were required to make a natural born subject

Oh please let us discuss Wong Kim Ark.

Because Wong Kim Ark discusses English Common law at length- and does not require that both parents be 'English subjects in English territories'.

Because I have been contradicting Birther idiots for years now, I have read and re-read Wong Kim Ark multiple times- since it contradicts many of the Birther claims- chief among them that both parents must be U.S. Citizens.

The child of an alien, if born in the country, is as much a citizen as the natural born child of a citizen, and by operation of the same principle.

this court, speaking by Mr. Justice Story, held that the case must rest for its decision exclusively upon the principles of the common law, and treated it as unquestionable that, by that law, a child born in England of alien parents was a natural-born subject, quoting the statement of Lord Coke in Co.Lit. 8a, that,

if an alien cometh into England and hath issue two sons, these two sons are indigenae, subjects born, because they are born within the realm,

In United States v. Rhodes (1866), Mr. Justice Swayne, sitting in the Circuit Court, said:

All persons born in the allegiance of the King are natural-born subjects, and all persons born in the allegiance of the United States are natural-born citizens. Birth and allegiance go together.

United States v. Wong Kim Ark

None of this of course really is relevant to Cruz- as Wong Kim Ark did not directly address the issue of an American citizen who was born a U.S. citizen outside of the United States because of his parent(s) citizenship

 

[Syriusly]

The 1790 Naturalization Act was presented to show that being born on foreign soil has nothing to do with "natural born" and not to show what the current law says regarding citizenship. In 1790, slaves and Native Americans weren't citizens. It would be more than a century before women were even allowed to vote. The laws change, definitions of "natural born" don't change.

Maybe you should study Constitutional law from someone other than Larry Tribe?

You are processing that information through a "progressive" filter for important Federal Laws. You can't do that with the natural-born requirement. And that is because of the intent for the reason those words appeared at all...and the reasons why the FF set up limitations of differing varieties on various high offices in DC. That is: national security.

In fact, if you were to examine the problem from a progressive lens + its intent (national security), the USSC would have to find that the natural-born requirement is twice as important and twice as narrow today as it was in the past. Besides the early days of our country, with England, France and Spain trying to destroy us from within, today is the time when the potential to get that done is almost realized, given the economic, hacking and invasive assaults being pitted against our country like at its beginning.

So if you're looking for a progressive interpretation of natural-born, don't get your hopes up. Intent is everything in this case. And that is how the USSC will see it in September. Simply put, if Ted Cruz, born in Alberta Canada with that Canadian birth certificate, and not renouncing his citizenship until May of 2014 can be president with the only tenuous link to natural-born being that his mom many years before she essentially naturalized to Canada, then a US sailor on shore leave could sire a child in Russia, Iran, Korea, China and that child could spend its formative years in that foreign land and then slide on over to the US and take the POTUS position. That's as absurd as Citizens United, which leaves a back door for foreign money to influence our most sacred form of democracy and self-rule/self-determination: elections.

The buck has to stop somewhere. And Ted Cruz is it; or we are doomed.

Lots of goblety gook and not any informed content.

Your fantasies have nothing to do with the law. Intent is nothing when it comes to determining who is a natural born citizen.

Cruz was born a U.S. citizen- and was never naturalized. By process of elimination that makes him a natural born citizen.