Why the 2nd Amendment needs to be reconsidered...

[JoeB131]

Funny how I've owned a gun since I was 12 and I never killed anyone nor have I been injured by a gun

You see owning guns does not make one a killer or a victim. That some people use guns in the commission of a crime has absolutely nothing to do with how many guns I own.

You cannot hold everyone responsible for the acts of a few.

I grew up in a time that people mounted their deer rifle or shotgun over the mantle in the living room, school kids had their hunting rifle or shotgun in a gunrack in the pickups at school, and just about everybody over the age of six knew how to fire some sort of firearm. I never shot anybody or was injured by a firearm either. I do recall a couple of guys that didn't make their presence known and picked up a couple of shotgun pellets in non lethal places, but I otherwise never knew anybody injured or killed with any kind of gun except overseas in wartime.

The one time I WAS afraid was an early sunny Saturday morning on the first day of pheasant season and I was driving to a meeting in southwest Kansas. Driving across an area called Cheynne Bottoms, the 4-wheel drives lined the highway and there were hunters with shotguns loaded with birdshot everywhere you looked. I kept my head low and prayed no bird decided to fly close to my vehicle. But as is the case in most hunting seasons in Kansas, nobody at all got shot.

What does that have to do with anything I said?

If you get joy out of killing small animals, that's fine and all, but it still should be damned difficult for you to get a gun.

 

[Skull Pilot]

And I'm sure you can back up that opinion by citing some historical documents right?

The fact is the writers of the Constitution specifically used the phrase "shall not be infringed" when speaking of the right to bear arms.

That does not jive with your opinion.

They also said, "Well-regulated Militia"....which does...

Chicago-Kent Law Review

What did the term "well regulated" mean in colonial times?

Do you think it meant controlled by the government?

Well regulated in colonial times could have referred to well disciplined or even well supplied.

The second amendment guarantees the individual right to bear arms for a collective purpose that does not make the right to bear arms a collective right.

In short, the 2nd Amendment was written to prevent the kind of 'armed resistance' to government you guys seem to think it protects.

I have no plans to offer armed resistance to the government. I never once said that did I?

Do you have evidence for that? All the indications are that he did well in school and only became unglued in the last few years.

He was autistic wasn't he? People are born autistic they don't become autistic. And that he did well for a mentally retarded autistic kid does not mean much

And you have absolutely no right to tell anyone what they do or do not need unless of course you want to be told that very same thing. I can come up with a list longer than my arm of shit you don't need but I don't presume to be so fucking self righteous as to tell you what to do.

And if any of those things were SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED to kill people, you might have a valid point about why I shouldn't have them.

I don't believe weapons are solely for killing people. I have had a semiautomatic rifle since I was 12 and have never killed anyone and most likely never will.

Owning a weapon does not make one a killer in fact it doesn't even imply that one thinks he wants to kill anyone.

I am loathe to harm anyone but I will if necessary to protect myself or my wife and no one has the right to tell me that I can't use any firearm I deem necessary to do so.

 

[earlycuyler]

Funny how I've owned a gun since I was 12 and I never killed anyone nor have I been injured by a gun

You see owning guns does not make one a killer or a victim. That some people use guns in the commission of a crime has absolutely nothing to do with how many guns I own.

You cannot hold everyone responsible for the acts of a few.

I grew up in a time that people mounted their deer rifle or shotgun over the mantle in the living room, school kids had their hunting rifle or shotgun in a gunrack in the pickups at school, and just about everybody over the age of six knew how to fire some sort of firearm. I never shot anybody or was injured by a firearm either. I do recall a couple of guys that didn't make their presence known and picked up a couple of shotgun pellets in non lethal places, but I otherwise never knew anybody injured or killed with any kind of gun except overseas in wartime.

The one time I WAS afraid was an early sunny Saturday morning on the first day of pheasant season and I was driving to a meeting in southwest Kansas. Driving across an area called Cheynne Bottoms, the 4-wheel drives lined the highway and there were hunters with shotguns loaded with birdshot everywhere you looked. I kept my head low and prayed no bird decided to fly close to my vehicle. But as is the case in most hunting seasons in Kansas, nobody at all got shot.

What does that have to do with anything I said?

If you get joy out of killing small animals, that's fine and all, but it still should be damned difficult for you to get a gun.

Ever buy a gun Joe ? seriously, no goofing off.

 

[OODA_Loop]

Ever buy a gun Joe ?

I sure hope not.

 

[daveman]

The Founders never could have concived that a crazy woman would buy a bushmaster, and her crazier son would use it to mow down preschoolers.

Two crazies exercising free will.

And an inanimate object.

Yep has to be the inanimate object's fault.

Joe's on record as believing criminals are never responsible for their actions.

 

[daveman]

Yes I know.

"Youz guys" filing down the teeth of the judicial, penal and mental health systems while encouraging the destruction of the traditional family and fostering lack of accountability and victimization based on your emotional recking had nothing to do with it.

Okay, let's go and look at this usual right wing laundry list of blaming everything but guns for gun violence...

First, the Penal and Judicial system... We lock up more people than any other country in the world. We are one of the last industrialized countries to still have a death penalty. So, no, the problem is not that we aren't locking enough of the bad guys up.

The Mental Health System- Are you folks on the right really willing to pay higher taxes to have enough mental hospital beds to house all of the mentally ill? I think there are arguments to be made both sides have contributed to this problem. The left for insisting on ridiculous standards for commitment (although in reaction to a system that was being abused) and the right for cutting spending on mental health and welfare programs so rich guys could have more Dressage Horsies... So I'll give you HALF of that one.

Destruction of the "Traditional Family". Hmmmmm. Okay, what caused that? Was it just those women getting jobs and seeking to be something other than baby-machines, or was it the fact that the right took away all the good unions jobs and forced a lot of these women into the work force?

Lack of accountability? Again, see both sides have really encouraged a lot of narcisism.

Somebody PM me when he returns to reality.

He only bought a one-way ticket.

 

[Foxfyre]

Funny how I've owned a gun since I was 12 and I never killed anyone nor have I been injured by a gun

You see owning guns does not make one a killer or a victim. That some people use guns in the commission of a crime has absolutely nothing to do with how many guns I own.

You cannot hold everyone responsible for the acts of a few.

I grew up in a time that people mounted their deer rifle or shotgun over the mantle in the living room, school kids had their hunting rifle or shotgun in a gunrack in the pickups at school, and just about everybody over the age of six knew how to fire some sort of firearm. I never shot anybody or was injured by a firearm either. I do recall a couple of guys that didn't make their presence known and picked up a couple of shotgun pellets in non lethal places, but I otherwise never knew anybody injured or killed with any kind of gun except overseas in wartime.

The one time I WAS afraid was an early sunny Saturday morning on the first day of pheasant season and I was driving to a meeting in southwest Kansas. Driving across an area called Cheynne Bottoms, the 4-wheel drives lined the highway and there were hunters with shotguns loaded with birdshot everywhere you looked. I kept my head low and prayed no bird decided to fly close to my vehicle. But as is the case in most hunting seasons in Kansas, nobody at all got shot.

What does that have to do with anything I said?

If you get joy out of killing small animals, that's fine and all, but it still should be damned difficult for you to get a gun.

How did I in any way address anything you said in this post? Or what could you possibly take from my post that suggests that I enjoy killing anything? My post was in response to Skill Pilot's comment.

But the point I think Skull Pilot was making and that I was reinforcing is that you can have as many guns as one can imagine in a relatively small space, and as long as they are in the hands of responsible citizens, there is no problem whatsoever.

The problem comes when the one who is irresponsible, incompetent, or has bad intentions gets a gun. And making it more difficult for responsible citizens to have guns is likely to make a black market for guns for 'bad guys' a lucrative cottage industry. For purposes of comparison, just look at how making it difficult/illegal to get drugs is effective in keeping those out of the hands of those who want them.

 

[daveman]

In short, the 2nd Amendment was written to prevent the kind of 'armed resistance' to government you guys seem to think it protects.

Next you'll tell us that the 1st Amendment allows the government to silence dissent.

Like a good proggy, you probably believe that bullshit.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Funny how I've owned a gun since I was 12 and I never killed anyone nor have I been injured by a gun

You see owning guns does not make one a killer or a victim. That some people use guns in the commission of a crime has absolutely nothing to do with how many guns I own.

You cannot hold everyone responsible for the acts of a few.

I grew up in a time that people mounted their deer rifle or shotgun over the mantle in the living room, school kids had their hunting rifle or shotgun in a gunrack in the pickups at school, and just about everybody over the age of six knew how to fire some sort of firearm. I never shot anybody or was injured by a firearm either. I do recall a couple of guys that didn't make their presence known and picked up a couple of shotgun pellets in non lethal places, but I otherwise never knew anybody injured or killed with any kind of gun except overseas in wartime.

The one time I WAS afraid was an early sunny Saturday morning on the first day of pheasant season and I was driving to a meeting in southwest Kansas. Driving across an area called Cheynne Bottoms, the 4-wheel drives lined the highway and there were hunters with shotguns loaded with birdshot everywhere you looked. I kept my head low and prayed no bird decided to fly close to my vehicle. But as is the case in most hunting seasons in Kansas, nobody at all got shot.

What does that have to do with anything I said?

If you get joy out of killing small animals, that's fine and all, but it still should be damned difficult for you to get a gun.

Joe's a vegan or is it vegetarian?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

In short, the 2nd Amendment was written to prevent the kind of 'armed resistance' to government you guys seem to think it protects.

Next you'll tell us that the 1st Amendment allows the government to silence dissent.

Like a good proggy, you probably believe that bullshit.

Just a few short months ago we would not be having this discussion with Joe.

 

[JoeB131]

In short, the 2nd Amendment was written to prevent the kind of 'armed resistance' to government you guys seem to think it protects.

Next you'll tell us that the 1st Amendment allows the government to silence dissent.

Like a good proggy, you probably believe that bullshit.

Just a few short months ago we would not be having this discussion with Joe.

A few short months ago, you guys thought nominating the Mormon was as bad an idea as I did.

Incidently, I proposed that the two reasons why you gun nuts want guns are fallacies well over a year ago... but that's okay....

a gun in your house is more dangerous to you than the bad guys.

the government will always have bigger, badder guns than you ever will.

 

[JoeB131]

I grew up in a time that people mounted their deer rifle or shotgun over the mantle in the living room, school kids had their hunting rifle or shotgun in a gunrack in the pickups at school, and just about everybody over the age of six knew how to fire some sort of firearm. I never shot anybody or was injured by a firearm either. I do recall a couple of guys that didn't make their presence known and picked up a couple of shotgun pellets in non lethal places, but I otherwise never knew anybody injured or killed with any kind of gun except overseas in wartime.

The one time I WAS afraid was an early sunny Saturday morning on the first day of pheasant season and I was driving to a meeting in southwest Kansas. Driving across an area called Cheynne Bottoms, the 4-wheel drives lined the highway and there were hunters with shotguns loaded with birdshot everywhere you looked. I kept my head low and prayed no bird decided to fly close to my vehicle. But as is the case in most hunting seasons in Kansas, nobody at all got shot.

What does that have to do with anything I said?

If you get joy out of killing small animals, that's fine and all, but it still should be damned difficult for you to get a gun.

Ever buy a gun Joe ? seriously, no goofing off.

Came close after I got out of the Army and lived in Cicero, IL.

IL having tougher laws, the FOIC is easier to get than a driver's license. Their whole mental health check back ground is that you have to check a box saying you aren't insane.

 

[OODA_Loop]

a gun in your house is more dangerous to you than the bad guys.

Yes by virtue of sheer exposure.

I am exposed to my gun(s) 24hrs. Most of the time in my right front pocket (S&W 442 Airweight Snub .38) or on my nightstand Glock 35.

A bad guy most likely will never be exposed to my gun (I hope).

I can mitigate the risk of Kellerman's numbers with training and safe gun practice engraining.

 

[Foxfyre]

Hmmm. Bad guys are breaking into my house. Do I decide that my gun will be more of a danger to me if I use it than they will? Tough call. But I think I'll take my chances with the gun.

 

[JoeB131]

a gun in your house is more dangerous to you than the bad guys.

Yes by virtue of sheer exposure.

I am exposed to my gun(s) 24hrs. Most of the time in my right front pocket (S&W 442 Airweight Snub .38) or on my nightstand Glock 35.

A bad guy most likely will never be exposed to my gun (I hope).

I can mitigate the risk of Kellerman's numbers with training and safe gun practice engraining.

Well, at least you are honest enough to admit that Kellerman's numbers are valid.

Again, if you are a responsible gun owner, as you say, then background checks, psych exams, insurance, licensing, closing the gun show loophole- none of these things would make a lot of difference to you.

Same with large capacity mags or assault weapons.

Again, the Gun Industry is fiddling and you're dancing the tune...

 

[JoeB131]

Hmmm. Bad guys are breaking into my house. Do I decide that my gun will be more of a danger to me if I use it than they will? Tough call. But I think I'll take my chances with the gun.

Or you could strive for a society where we don't have that many desperate people.

Again, to hear you gun nutters tell it, more guns and more prisons make us safer.

We have more guns and more prisons than anyone else in the world. And we have the highest crime rates in the industrialized world.

 

[OODA_Loop]

Again, if you are a responsible gun owner, as you say, then background checks, psych exams, insurance, licensing, closing the gun show loophole- none of these things would make a lot of difference to you.

Same with large capacity mags or assault weapons.

You don't propose anything to stop criminals and punish them. You will never get anywhere with the law abiding with that lead in.

 

[LeftofLeft]

Then reconsider it. Put it to a Vote. Tomorrow.

 

[OODA_Loop]

Or you could strive for a society where we don't have that many desperate people.

Yes most definitely this over defending yourself and family against an intruder in your home with a gun.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Hmmm. Bad guys are breaking into my house. Do I decide that my gun will be more of a danger to me if I use it than they will? Tough call. But I think I'll take my chances with the gun.

Or you could strive for a society where we don't have that many desperate people.

Again, to hear you gun nutters tell it, more guns and more prisons make us safer.

We have more guns and more prisons than anyone else in the world. And we have the highest crime rates in the industrialized world.

You have a foolish childlike mind. What act of desperation could have pushed the New York shooter to ambush those firemen?