Why the 2nd Amendment needs to be reconsidered...

[daveman]

And when did I say that?

I said that it's 43 times more likely that a member of her family could be killed by one of those guns, because, hey, guess what, that's what happens.

Kind of like people who keep rabid pit bulls for protection and then are all shocked when their dog "Napalm" mauls little Sally during a game of fetch.

Every time you say you want to disarm the law-abiding. That's when you say it.

Because even someone as stupid as you has to know that criminals will not obey your gun laws. Therefore, you want to disarm innocents and keep criminals armed, thus creating more victims.

As I've correctly pointed out before, you're an amoral scumbag.

No, I just don't think the 31,000 gun deaths, very few of which are the result of people defending themselves, is worth your false sense of security.

Again, if guns and prisons made us safer, we'd have the lowest crime rate in the Industrialized world, not the highest.

You don't think at all. You emote. That's it.

 

[daveman]

I've got no problem with people earning it...

I've got a huge probelm with the wealthy stealing from those who did the actual work...

Or do you really think the CEO of GM deserved 12 million for crashing his company?

When was he charged with theft?

Oh, yeah -- never.

You want what you didn't earn. Not only are you an amoral scumbag, you're a lazy piece of shit.

You skip around the point. You think the rich shouldn't pay their fair share because they "earned" it.

Howdid the ceo of GM "earn" it by wrecking his company? Seems like a pretty sensible question, which is why you keep avoiding it.

The rich pay their fair share. They pay YOUR fair share, too.

The modern liberal is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for covetousness.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I think it would severely reduce the number of them... as every other industrialized country except Japan has a lower suicide rate than we do, and they all ban guns.

(Japan is a special case, but I wouldn't want to confuse you with facts, so let' leave Japan off to the side for a while.)

Just because you say it doesn't make it true.

And FYI Japan has a higher suicide rate than we do.

WHO | Suicide rates per 100,000 by country, year and sex (Table)

I specifically said Japan is a special case, as it has a 2000 year old culture that considers suicide honorable. Better to kill yourself than disgrace your family.

Every other industrialized nation has a lower one.

Really?

According to the W.H.O.

France, Finland, and Sweden have higher suicide rates than we do.

So it seems you are still wrong.

Imagine that.

 

[OODA_Loop]

Really?

According to the W.H.O.

France, Finland, and Sweden have higher suicide rates than we do.

So it seems you are still wrong.

Imagine that.

Joe is not really wrong. Its different.

He knows how to get us to Utopia thru some awesome laws and stuff so him exapanding the truth is okay.

 

[earlycuyler]

What does that have to do with anything I said?

If you get joy out of killing small animals, that's fine and all, but it still should be damned difficult for you to get a gun.

Ever buy a gun Joe ? seriously, no goofing off.

Came close after I got out of the Army and lived in Cicero, IL.

IL having tougher laws, the FOIC is easier to get than a driver's license. Their whole mental health check back ground is that you have to check a box saying you aren't insane.

Yeah, And if one fails the check they are told "no thanks", and sent on their marry way. At least, that how it was when I saw it happen at a gun show, where oddly, all the men and women selling guns at tables were having buyers fill out the yellow paper. I enjoy the hell out of upland bird hunting. I should not be punished because the politicians in your city can do nothing about the out of control murder rate in your city. You are advocating that the folks that do nothing wrong be punished for what the thugs in your city are doing, and submit to extra background checks that criminals will never submit to. They will just steal there guns from folks who got them the right way. Bill Clinton crime bill is proof that the laws are nothing more then feel good legislation passed to only scratch an itch. As for mental health, it was you libs who made in UNPC to to warehouse nuts.

 

[saveliberty]

All these gun control threads. Seems there is not much traction for a change.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Why Communism needs to be reconsidered as the answer for a New America. Communism is definitely NOT the answer for America. This is why we must retain our 2nd amendment rights. Read up!



The 45 Communist Goals for America:

1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war. (Check.)

2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war. (Check.)

3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength. (Check.)

4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.

5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.

6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.

7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N. (Check.)

8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev's promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.

9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.

10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.

11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow.) (Big time check.)

12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party. (Check. The Communist Party of America is alive and well. They even endorsed Barack Obama for president.)

13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.

14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.

15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States. (Big time check. The Democrat Party is pretty much the new Communist Party. The Republicans are well on their way.)

16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights. (Check. Can you say ACLU??)

17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks. (Check, check, and check. The public school systems in America, especially colleges/universities, are breeding grounds for Communist ideologies.)

18. Gain control of all student newspapers.

19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.

20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policy-making positions. (Check!)

21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures. (Huge check!)

22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms." (Check!)

23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art." (Huge check. I always wondered how a pile of dog crap can be labeled "art." Now I know. Damn Communists.)

24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press. (Check. Although it's quickly being replaced by blasphemy laws censuring any "obscenity" towards Islam.)

25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV. (Check!)

26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy." (Wow. Check, check, and check.)

27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity, which does not need a "religious crutch." (Check!)

28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state." (Big time check!)

29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis. (Huge check. Or you could just call it "fluid" like Barack Obama.)

30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man." (Check! Once considered American heroes, the Founding Fathers are now being discredited at every turn.)

31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the "big picture." Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over. (Check.)

32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture--education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc. (Big check.)

33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.

34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities. (Check.)

35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.

36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions. (Check.)

37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business. (Check.)

38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat]. (Check! ADD, ADHD, etc., have suddenly overrun our society.)

39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals. (Not sure how this is going...it's at least a partial check.)

40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce. (CHECK!)

41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents. (Check!)

42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use ["]united force["] to solve economic, political or social problems.

43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.

44. Internationalize the Panama Canal. (Check.)

45. Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction [over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction] over nations and individuals alike.


It's amazing how the American people have been kept in the dark about these goals, whether an intentional or self-imposed dark. But it sure looks like America has ignored the dangers of Communism while the wolf was making it's way into the sheep pen. Now it's too late, and the American Republic is all but dead, replaced by the very Communism that we've fought so hard against for over 40 years.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

All these gun control threads. Seems there is not much traction for a change.

Can't you see that?

 

[earlycuyler]

All these gun control threads. Seems there is not much traction for a change.

Thats because there is no desire to change it. Only a desire to score political brownie points and a good angle for the next election. Politicians give a shit less about those children in sandy hook. They are nothing more then campaign slogans for 2014 to the career politicians IN BOTH PARTY'S.

 

[saveliberty]

All these gun control threads. Seems there is not much traction for a change.

Can't you see that?

Many times my posts are an introduction to a point I plan on making further into the thread. I just let the conversation weave it's way using my earlier post as a springboard.

In short, yes I can see that.

 

[ScienceRocks]

The Second Amendment is not about sportsmanship, hunting, or even personal protection. It is about ensuring the people’s ability to utterly destroy the federal government should it turn tyrannical. It is a free people’s last resort

 

[JoeB131]

No, I just don't think the 31,000 gun deaths, very few of which are the result of people defending themselves, is worth your false sense of security.

Again, if guns and prisons made us safer, we'd have the lowest crime rate in the Industrialized world, not the highest.

Keeping criminals in prisons make us safer.

Does it?

Then why does Germany only lock up 78,000 people, but they only had 258 gun murders...

while we lock up over 2 million, and we had 11,000 gun murders...

I would argue the Prison-Industrial Complex, another Corporate Money-making scheme, makes us less safe.

You lock up a pot smoker with a rapist, you don't get a more mellow rapist, you get an angrier pot smoker, who on top of that can't get a job because he has a 'conviction'.

 

[Ernie S.]

No, I just don't think the 31,000 gun deaths, very few of which are the result of people defending themselves, is worth your false sense of security.

Again, if guns and prisons made us safer, we'd have the lowest crime rate in the Industrialized world, not the highest.

Keeping criminals in prisons make us safer.

Does it?

Then why does Germany only lock up 78,000 people, but they only had 258 gun murders...

while we lock up over 2 million, and we had 11,000 gun murders...

I would argue the Prison-Industrial Complex, another Corporate Money-making scheme, makes us less safe.

You lock up a pot smoker with a rapist, you don't get a more mellow rapist, you get an angrier pot smoker, who on top of that can't get a job because he has a 'conviction'.

That's some fucked up logic there son! You are insinuating that Germany had just 258 gun murders because they only have 78,000 prison inmates?
The reason we had 11,000 gun murders is because we have 2 million inmates?
Are all of these gun murders perpetrated by prison inmates?

Being an inmate doesn't cause one to kill. Killing causes on to become an inmate.

 

[JoeB131]

Keeping criminals in prisons make us safer.

Does it?

Then why does Germany only lock up 78,000 people, but they only had 258 gun murders...

while we lock up over 2 million, and we had 11,000 gun murders...

I would argue the Prison-Industrial Complex, another Corporate Money-making scheme, makes us less safe.

You lock up a pot smoker with a rapist, you don't get a more mellow rapist, you get an angrier pot smoker, who on top of that can't get a job because he has a 'conviction'.

That's some fucked up logic there son! You are insinuating that Germany had just 258 gun murders because they only have 78,000 prison inmates?
The reason we had 11,000 gun murders is because we have 2 million inmates?
Are all of these gun murders perpetrated by prison inmates?

Being an inmate doesn't cause one to kill. Killing causes on to become an inmate.

Well, actually it is logical, in that you can't keep them as inmates forever.

Eventually, you have to let the old ones out to let the new ones in, because the Prison INdustrial Complex needs new bodies. So that aforementioned pot smoker does his few years of slave labor, he's now pretty anti-social from all the times he got gang-raped in the shower, he can't get a job because of his conviction...

He's now a bomb waiting go go off... and a lot of them do.

Most countries only lock up the people who really need to be locked up.

We lock up a bunch of people, most to provide cheap labor for the Prison-Industrial complex, subsidized by you, the taxpayer.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Does it?

Then why does Germany only lock up 78,000 people, but they only had 258 gun murders...

while we lock up over 2 million, and we had 11,000 gun murders...

I would argue the Prison-Industrial Complex, another Corporate Money-making scheme, makes us less safe.

You lock up a pot smoker with a rapist, you don't get a more mellow rapist, you get an angrier pot smoker, who on top of that can't get a job because he has a 'conviction'.

That's some fucked up logic there son! You are insinuating that Germany had just 258 gun murders because they only have 78,000 prison inmates?
The reason we had 11,000 gun murders is because we have 2 million inmates?
Are all of these gun murders perpetrated by prison inmates?

Being an inmate doesn't cause one to kill. Killing causes on to become an inmate.

Well, actually it is logical, in that you can't keep them as inmates forever.

Never heard of life without parole huh?

You want to be tough on guns right?

Then stump for a law for an automatic life without parole sentence for any violent crime committed with a firearm barring self defense of course.

That would be the only gun law we'd ever need.

 

[JoeB131]

[

Never heard of life without parole huh?

You want to be tough on guns right?

Then stump for a law for an automatic life without parole sentence for any violent crime committed with a firearm barring self defense of course.

That would be the only gun law we'd ever need.

We lock up people for life for stealing slices of Pizza.

Stealing one slice of pizza results in life sentence - SFGate

It doesn't seem to deter crime all that much.

Most gun deaths are not hardened criminals going around shooting people. They are suicides and domestic arguments.

 

[Skull Pilot]

[

Never heard of life without parole huh?

You want to be tough on guns right?

Then stump for a law for an automatic life without parole sentence for any violent crime committed with a firearm barring self defense of course.

That would be the only gun law we'd ever need.

We lock up people for life for stealing slices of Pizza.

Stealing one slice of pizza results in life sentence - SFGate

It doesn't seem to deter crime all that much.

Most gun deaths are not hardened criminals going around shooting people. They are suicides and domestic arguments.

If a gun was used then yes.

You want to be tough on guns right?

Shooting anyone other than in self defense is a violent crime committed with a gun therefore automatic life without parole

And suicide shouldn't be against the law now should it after all one cannot violate his own rights.

 

[JoeB131]

[


If a gun was used then yes.

You want to be tough on guns right?

Shooting anyone other than in self defense is a violent crime committed with a gun therefore automatic life without parole

And suicide shouldn't be against the law now should it after all one cannot violate his own rights.

Suicide is against the law to protect people from themselves, same as laws against drug abuse and prostitution. As they should be.

Most gun deaths are suicides and domestic arguments, not hardened criminals. A lack of guns in every home would reduce those numbers.

Which is why Japan only had 41 Gun murders and the US had 11,000.

 

[Skull Pilot]

[


If a gun was used then yes.

You want to be tough on guns right?

Shooting anyone other than in self defense is a violent crime committed with a gun therefore automatic life without parole

And suicide shouldn't be against the law now should it after all one cannot violate his own rights.

Suicide is against the law to protect people from themselves, same as laws against drug abuse and prostitution. As they should be.

Most gun deaths are suicides and domestic arguments, not hardened criminals. A lack of guns in every home would reduce those numbers.

Which is why Japan only had 41 Gun murders and the US had 11,000.

I don't give a shit if someone is a hardened criminal or not.

You want to get tough on gun violence then stop being a pussy about it and throw the assholes in jail for life.

And really it's not your business or anyone else's for that matter if a person wants to kill himself.

 

[JoeB131]

[

I don't give a shit if someone is a hardened criminal or not.

You want to get tough on gun violence then stop being a pussy about it and throw the assholes in jail for life.

And really it's not your business or anyone else's for that matter if a person wants to kill himself.

The law says it IS my business. End of discussion.

On the issue of guns, I'm reasonably sure that the last thing on a persons mind when they are about to shoot their freeloading brother in law over who drank the last can of Milwaukee's Best is "maybe I might go to jail for the rest of my life!"

Prison are not the deterrents you jokers on the right think they are. But someone is making money on the whole thing, so they keep telling you they are. Kind of like guns.