Why the 2nd Amendment needs to be reconsidered...

[JoeB131]

Again, if you are a responsible gun owner, as you say, then background checks, psych exams, insurance, licensing, closing the gun show loophole- none of these things would make a lot of difference to you.

Same with large capacity mags or assault weapons.

You don't propose anything to stop criminals and punish them. You will never get anywhere with the law abiding with that lead in.

We already lock up more people than any other country in teh world.

We have 2 million in prison and 7 million on probation and parole. We do so much "Punishment" it is breaking our bank.

I would argue that our incarceration policies are counterproductive or indicative of a bigger problem. How is it that we lock up 2 million, and Germany only locks up 78,000 and Japan only locks up 69,000. Yet Germany and Japan have less crime. A lot less.

 

[JoeB131]

Hmmm. Bad guys are breaking into my house. Do I decide that my gun will be more of a danger to me if I use it than they will? Tough call. But I think I'll take my chances with the gun.

Or you could strive for a society where we don't have that many desperate people.

Again, to hear you gun nutters tell it, more guns and more prisons make us safer.

We have more guns and more prisons than anyone else in the world. And we have the highest crime rates in the industrialized world.

You have a foolish childlike mind. What act of desperation could have pushed the New York shooter to ambush those firemen?

Good question. How is it we produce so many people like that?

Maybe it was because he was essentially unemployable due to his previous conviction.

 

[JoeB131]

Or you could strive for a society where we don't have that many desperate people.

Yes most definitely this over defending yourself and family against an intruder in your home with a gun.

43 people get killed by guns meant tokill that intruder before the intruder is killed.

This is a case of the cure being worse than the disease.

Conversation that never happens after a teen suicide...

"I'm so sorry to hear little Johnny took his own life."

"Yes, but thank Jesus, he wasn't killed by an intruder!"

 

[Skull Pilot]

Or you could strive for a society where we don't have that many desperate people.

Yes most definitely this over defending yourself and family against an intruder in your home with a gun.

43 people get killed by guns meant tokill that intruder before the intruder is killed.

This is a case of the cure being worse than the disease.

Conversation that never happens after a teen suicide...

"I'm so sorry to hear little Johnny took his own life."

"Yes, but thank Jesus, he wasn't killed by an intruder!"

So you really think that banning guns will stop suicides?

And you call people who own guns crazy.

 

[JoeB131]

Yes most definitely this over defending yourself and family against an intruder in your home with a gun.

43 people get killed by guns meant tokill that intruder before the intruder is killed.

This is a case of the cure being worse than the disease.

Conversation that never happens after a teen suicide...

"I'm so sorry to hear little Johnny took his own life."

"Yes, but thank Jesus, he wasn't killed by an intruder!"

So you really think that banning guns will stop suicides?

And you call people who own guns crazy.

I think it would severely reduce the number of them... as every other industrialized country except Japan has a lower suicide rate than we do, and they all ban guns.

(Japan is a special case, but I wouldn't want to confuse you with facts, so let' leave Japan off to the side for a while.)

 

[Skull Pilot]

43 people get killed by guns meant tokill that intruder before the intruder is killed.

This is a case of the cure being worse than the disease.

Conversation that never happens after a teen suicide...

"I'm so sorry to hear little Johnny took his own life."

"Yes, but thank Jesus, he wasn't killed by an intruder!"

So you really think that banning guns will stop suicides?

And you call people who own guns crazy.

I think it would severely reduce the number of them... as every other industrialized country except Japan has a lower suicide rate than we do, and they all ban guns.

(Japan is a special case, but I wouldn't want to confuse you with facts, so let' leave Japan off to the side for a while.)

Just because you say it doesn't make it true.

And FYI Japan has a higher suicide rate than we do.

WHO | Suicide rates per 100,000 by country, year and sex (Table)

http://terrifictop10.wordpress.com/2012/04/08/top-10-countries-with-the-highest-suicide-rates/

 

[JoeB131]

So you really think that banning guns will stop suicides?

And you call people who own guns crazy.

I think it would severely reduce the number of them... as every other industrialized country except Japan has a lower suicide rate than we do, and they all ban guns.

(Japan is a special case, but I wouldn't want to confuse you with facts, so let' leave Japan off to the side for a while.)

Just because you say it doesn't make it true.

And FYI Japan has a higher suicide rate than we do.

WHO | Suicide rates per 100,000 by country, year and sex (Table)

I specifically said Japan is a special case, as it has a 2000 year old culture that considers suicide honorable. Better to kill yourself than disgrace your family.

Every other industrialized nation has a lower one.

 

[OODA_Loop]

Or you could strive for a society where we don't have that many desperate people.

Yes most definitely this over defending yourself and family against an intruder in your home with a gun.

43 people get killed by guns meant tokill that intruder before the intruder is killed.

This is a case of the cure being worse than the disease.

There are a million firearms license holders in Florida alone. There 31,672 firearm deaths in the US nationwide in 2010.

Numbers dont support your assertion.

 

[daveman]

Hmmm. Bad guys are breaking into my house. Do I decide that my gun will be more of a danger to me if I use it than they will? Tough call. But I think I'll take my chances with the gun.

Joe thinks it would be morally superior for you to be raped and murdered than to defend yourself with a gun.

 

[JoeB131]

Yes most definitely this over defending yourself and family against an intruder in your home with a gun.

43 people get killed by guns meant tokill that intruder before the intruder is killed.

This is a case of the cure being worse than the disease.

There are a million firearms license holders in Florida alone. There 31,672 firearm deaths in the US nationwide in 2010.

Numbers dont support your assertion.

Again, by your logic, 9/11 should have been no big deal, because only 4 flights out of 23,000 a day were used to crash planes into buildings.

Oh, wait, we did treat it as a big deal. We put more guards on the airports and put steel doors on the cockpits and put Air Marshalls and TSA agents on guards and made people get body scans before geting on a plane.

BUt even though 10 times as many people die from gun injuries every year as died on 9/11, we just can't rethink ANY of the gun laws because MOST guns aren't used in crimes.

 

[daveman]

Or you could strive for a society where we don't have that many desperate people.

There it is, folks:

Joe wants to redistribute wealth from those who earned it to those who didn't.

He's a good little Commie.

 

[JoeB131]

Hmmm. Bad guys are breaking into my house. Do I decide that my gun will be more of a danger to me if I use it than they will? Tough call. But I think I'll take my chances with the gun.

Joe thinks it would be morally superior for you to be raped and murdered than to defend yourself with a gun.

And when did I say that?

I said that it's 43 times more likely that a member of her family could be killed by one of those guns, because, hey, guess what, that's what happens.

Kind of like people who keep rabid pit bulls for protection and then are all shocked when their dog "Napalm" mauls little Sally during a game of fetch.

 

[JoeB131]

Or you could strive for a society where we don't have that many desperate people.

There it is, folks:

Joe wants to redistribute wealth from those who earned it to those who didn't.

He's a good little Commie.

I've got no problem with people earning it...

I've got a huge probelm with the wealthy stealing from those who did the actual work...

Or do you really think the CEO of GM deserved 12 million for crashing his company?

 

[daveman]

Hmmm. Bad guys are breaking into my house. Do I decide that my gun will be more of a danger to me if I use it than they will? Tough call. But I think I'll take my chances with the gun.

Joe thinks it would be morally superior for you to be raped and murdered than to defend yourself with a gun.

And when did I say that?

I said that it's 43 times more likely that a member of her family could be killed by one of those guns, because, hey, guess what, that's what happens.

Kind of like people who keep rabid pit bulls for protection and then are all shocked when their dog "Napalm" mauls little Sally during a game of fetch.

Every time you say you want to disarm the law-abiding. That's when you say it.

Because even someone as stupid as you has to know that criminals will not obey your gun laws. Therefore, you want to disarm innocents and keep criminals armed, thus creating more victims.

As I've correctly pointed out before, you're an amoral scumbag.

 

[OODA_Loop]

Again, by your logic, 9/11 should have been no big deal, because only 4 flights out of 23,000 a day were used to crash planes into buildings.

Oh, wait, we did treat it as a big deal. We put more guards on the airports and put steel doors on the cockpits and put Air Marshalls and TSA agents on guards and made people get body scans before geting on a plane.

BUt even though 10 times as many people die from gun injuries every year as died on 9/11, we just can't rethink ANY of the gun laws because MOST guns aren't used in crimes.

Got it. Your numbers are proved impossible.

So its about 911 and planes now.

 

[daveman]

Or you could strive for a society where we don't have that many desperate people.

There it is, folks:

Joe wants to redistribute wealth from those who earned it to those who didn't.

He's a good little Commie.

I've got no problem with people earning it...

I've got a huge probelm with the wealthy stealing from those who did the actual work...

Or do you really think the CEO of GM deserved 12 million for crashing his company?

When was he charged with theft?

Oh, yeah -- never.

You want what you didn't earn. Not only are you an amoral scumbag, you're a lazy piece of shit.

 

[JoeB131]

Joe thinks it would be morally superior for you to be raped and murdered than to defend yourself with a gun.

And when did I say that?

I said that it's 43 times more likely that a member of her family could be killed by one of those guns, because, hey, guess what, that's what happens.

Kind of like people who keep rabid pit bulls for protection and then are all shocked when their dog "Napalm" mauls little Sally during a game of fetch.

Every time you say you want to disarm the law-abiding. That's when you say it.

Because even someone as stupid as you has to know that criminals will not obey your gun laws. Therefore, you want to disarm innocents and keep criminals armed, thus creating more victims.

As I've correctly pointed out before, you're an amoral scumbag.

No, I just don't think the 31,000 gun deaths, very few of which are the result of people defending themselves, is worth your false sense of security.

Again, if guns and prisons made us safer, we'd have the lowest crime rate in the Industrialized world, not the highest.

 

[JoeB131]

There it is, folks:

Joe wants to redistribute wealth from those who earned it to those who didn't.

He's a good little Commie.

I've got no problem with people earning it...

I've got a huge probelm with the wealthy stealing from those who did the actual work...

Or do you really think the CEO of GM deserved 12 million for crashing his company?

When was he charged with theft?

Oh, yeah -- never.

You want what you didn't earn. Not only are you an amoral scumbag, you're a lazy piece of shit.

You skip around the point. You think the rich shouldn't pay their fair share because they "earned" it.

Howdid the ceo of GM "earn" it by wrecking his company? Seems like a pretty sensible question, which is why you keep avoiding it.

 

[OODA_Loop]

No, I just don't think the 31,000 gun deaths, very few of which are the result of people defending themselves, is worth your false sense of security.

Again, if guns and prisons made us safer, we'd have the lowest crime rate in the Industrialized world, not the highest.

Keeping criminals in prisons make us safer.

 

[OODA_Loop]

You skip around the point. You think the rich shouldn't pay their fair share because they "earned" it.

Howdid the ceo of GM "earn" it by wrecking his company? Seems like a pretty sensible question, which is why you keep avoiding it.

You think the rich should pay more than the share everyone does because they "have it".

The GM CEO "earned it" by meeting whatever obligation required as approved by the shareholders and union.