Why those who are pro-life shouldn't support personhood bills

[Shelzin]

It’s not the place of those ‘pro-choice’ or ‘anti-choice’ to make such a decision, the private citizen herself makes the decision as to where to draw the line based upon her beliefs and situation – she certainly knows better than the state.

I obviously disagree with that. I believe there is a time that if you remove the fetus that if you don't do everything you can to save it, then you are murdering a person. An extremely young person... But a person.

Kill a body I really don't care... Kill a person and now we have problems. I'll fight that tooth and nail just as hard as some of these pro-lifers are for killing a body.

 

[AmyNation]

Come on pro choicers.

You tell me.

When do you draw the line?

The line has been pointed out, repeatedly. No one is advocating that a fetus past the 25th week should be aborted.

It is not a baby until it has gone through rapid brain development.


Now, would you like to comment on the videos? On the personhood movement? Which I think it's very separate from the pro-life movement.


Edit to add - I would even be comfortable reassessing the laws and drawing the line to sometime around the 14th week. However you can't have compromise on the issue, because both sides become too entrenched in their own feelings to see the others point of view.

Same here... Although I usually use 16 week. I don't have a problem with it up to the 25th week... But for the life of me I can't figure out why anyone would need more than 4 months to figure it out if it's not a medical problem.

Abortion past the 1st trimester is rare, and in large part due to medical issues. I don't think anyone needs 25 weeks to decide, and I wouldn't have an issue compromising with pro-lifers and pushing the deadline back to 16 weeks. However if ever a deal could be struck( which I really don't see happening) I would want all the nonsense to end. Let it be a settled issue and let's take those resources and spend them on something else.

 

[Katzndogz]

If a personhood bill could slow the juggernaut of death, then it's worth a try.

 

[Shelzin]

The line has been pointed out, repeatedly. No one is advocating that a fetus past the 25th week should be aborted.

It is not a baby until it has gone through rapid brain development.


Now, would you like to comment on the videos? On the personhood movement? Which I think it's very separate from the pro-life movement.


Edit to add - I would even be comfortable reassessing the laws and drawing the line to sometime around the 14th week. However you can't have compromise on the issue, because both sides become too entrenched in their own feelings to see the others point of view.

Same here... Although I usually use 16 week. I don't have a problem with it up to the 25th week... But for the life of me I can't figure out why anyone would need more than 4 months to figure it out if it's not a medical problem.

Abortion past the 1st trimester is rare, and in large part due to medical issues. I don't think anyone needs 25 weeks to decide, and I wouldn't have an issue compromising with pro-lifers and pushing the deadline back to 16 weeks. However if ever a deal could be struck( which I really don't see happening) I would want all the nonsense to end. Let it be a settled issue and let's take those resources and spend them on something else.

Agreed. I can't rep you anymore.

 

[AmyNation]

If a personhood bill could slow the juggernaut of death, then it's worth a try.

You wouldn't say that if you had been the husband of the women in the video.


One of my dearest friends recently gave birth. She had a c-section, her doctor wanted her to have a vaginal birth. I can't imagine being in her position and having the state step in and take that choice away from her.

 

[Shelzin]

If a personhood bill could slow the juggernaut of death, then it's worth a try.

Like Amy said... It would slow it... But not by much. Most abortions happen before 16 weeks. Like... Almost 90% or something like that. Too lazy/late to look up the stats.

 

[AmyNation]

If a personhood bill could slow the juggernaut of death, then it's worth a try.

Like Amy said... It would slow it... But not by much. Most abortions happen before 16 weeks. Like... Almost 90% or something like that. Too lazy/late to look up the stats.

Lazy/late are both acceptable

 

[Shelzin]

If a personhood bill could slow the juggernaut of death, then it's worth a try.

You wouldn't say that if you had been the husband of the women in the video.


One of my dearest friends recently gave birth. She had a c-section, her doctor wanted her to have a vaginal birth. I can't imagine being in her position and having the state step in and take that choice away from her.

Oh hell... I think it should be noted that I am for defining when "personhood" begins.. But I don't think any of the "personhood" laws are actually about that, and thus I am against them.

Edit: And for the damn record... Man I hate that second video I couldn't even watch all of it...

What came first? The chicken or the egg?

The damn egg came first. Chickens evolved from reptiles, reptiles lay fuck'n eggs. Not all reptiles, but considering chickens lay eggs... I think it's a pretty damn safe bet that they evolved form reptiles who did. Not a lot of thought needed for that. How the fuck is that an age old question?

rant rant rant rant... RANT... Ok.. I'm done.

 

[Katzndogz]

That's really strange, because doctors do far more c-sections than vaginal births! The preference is for a c-section. The reasons are: doctors' fears of malpractice lawsuits, and women waiting longer to have kids (which is related to higher rates of complication. 28% of all births in the US are c-sections with 15% of doctors refusing to do a vaginal delivery at all. Yet your friend's doctor didn't want her to have a c-section. That's downright strange.



Here is the converse.

Could You Be Forced To Have A C-Section?

 

[AmyNation]

If a personhood bill could slow the juggernaut of death, then it's worth a try.

You wouldn't say that if you had been the husband of the women in the video.


One of my dearest friends recently gave birth. She had a c-section, her doctor wanted her to have a vaginal birth. I can't imagine being in her position and having the state step in and take that choice away from her.

Oh hell... I think it should be noted that I am for defining when "personhood" begins.. But I don't think any of the "personhood" laws are actually about that, and thus I am against them.

It's a tricky situation. No one would deny that at 35 weeks, that's a baby in there and has a right to life. However, if under the law it has the full rights of a newborn, then you end up in a quagmire, situations like the video where the right to make your own informed medical decisions is denied based on what's best for the unborn. There are a host of issues that would arise I'm sure, but my brain is starting to shut off.

 

[Katzndogz]

We have a regime in place and in that regime are people like Cass Sunstein and John Holdren who believe abortion should be legal up until the child is two years old. I have no problem with personhood bills.

 

[AmyNation]

That's really strange, because doctors do far more c-sections than vaginal births! The preference is for a c-section. The reasons are: doctors' fears of malpractice lawsuits, and women waiting longer to have kids (which is related to higher rates of complication. 28% of all births in the US are c-sections with 15% of doctors refusing to do a vaginal delivery at all. Yet your friend's doctor didn't want her to have a c-section. That's downright strange.



Here is the converse.

Could You Be Forced To Have A C-Section?

Well, hers would have been a vpac. Luckily for her she had the time and money to shop around for a doctor who would listen to her. Sometimes you know your own body better then strangers.

 

[AmyNation]

If a personhood bill could slow the juggernaut of death, then it's worth a try.

You wouldn't say that if you had been the husband of the women in the video.


One of my dearest friends recently gave birth. She had a c-section, her doctor wanted her to have a vaginal birth. I can't imagine being in her position and having the state step in and take that choice away from her.

Oh hell... I think it should be noted that I am for defining when "personhood" begins.. But I don't think any of the "personhood" laws are actually about that, and thus I am against them.

Edit: And for the damn record... Man I hate that second video I couldn't even watch all of it...

What came first? The chicken or the egg?

The damn egg came first. Chickens evolved from reptiles, reptiles lay fuck'n eggs. Not all reptiles, but considering chickens lay eggs... I think it's a pretty damn safe bet that they evolved form reptiles who did. Not a lot of thought needed for that. How the fuck is that an age old question?

rant rant rant rant... RANT... Ok.. I'm done.

Ok, I lol'd.

+1 to the edit

 

[tinydancer]

Come on pro choicers.

You tell me.

When do you draw the line?

The line has been pointed out, repeatedly. No one is advocating that a fetus past the 25th week should be aborted.

It is not a baby until it has gone through rapid brain development.


Now, would you like to comment on the videos? On the personhood movement? Which I think it's very separate from the pro-life movement.


Edit to add - I would even be comfortable reassessing the laws and drawing the line to sometime around the 14th week. However you can't have compromise on the issue, because both sides become too entrenched in their own feelings to see the others point of view.

I'm on dial up in the middle of nowhere. I cannot view your video.

I find the discussion so crazy at this point no one can talk to one another. Pity. There are days I want to scream because no one is talking. Consequently babies are dying.

My deal is prevention. But then watch all hell break loose when I suggest it should be free.And yes I am a conservative but I also know you cannot legislate morals. Prevention is the key.

But sorry. PP has got a real stake in this game. They make big bucks off of abortion.

 

[tinydancer]

We have a regime in place and in that regime are people like Cass Sunstein and John Holdren who believe abortion should be legal up until the child is two years old. I have no problem with personhood bills.

Just so you know, they are not kidding. Holdren in particular scares the ever loving crap out of me.

Cass is not much better.

 

[Shelzin]

But sorry. PP has got a real stake in this game.

I laughed... Hard. but I don't know if I was supposed to. Sorry if you didn't mean it that way.

 

[Katzndogz]

A real solution is to somehow convince people that they are more than genitalia.

 

[Katzndogz]

We have a regime in place and in that regime are people like Cass Sunstein and John Holdren who believe abortion should be legal up until the child is two years old. I have no problem with personhood bills.

Just so you know, they are not kidding. Holdren in particular scares the ever loving crap out of me.

Cass is not much better.

The difference is, Holdren is gay. Sunstein is for euthanasia of the useless, which includes infants and the old.

 

[tinydancer]

But sorry. PP has got a real stake in this game.

I laughed... Hard. but I don't know if I was supposed to. Sorry if you didn't mean it that way.

whoa geeze. no I didn't mean to. Rocking on to an old fave Gowan and wasn't paying attention.

 

[Shelzin]

We have a regime in place and in that regime are people like Cass Sunstein and John Holdren who believe abortion should be legal up until the child is two years old. I have no problem with personhood bills.

Just so you know, they are not kidding. Holdren in particular scares the ever loving crap out of me.

Cass is not much better.

I used to think there was no such thing as pro-abortion. I know people liked to say I was... But that just sounds stupid and illogical as I'm not. But that sounds an awful lot like pro-abortion.

That's just messed up.