Will America Go Communist?

[georgephillip]

America will never go communist.

.....or socialist for that matter. The President said so. best President ever!

Is Trump a moron? - The Feed

 

[georgephillip]

As a white male born in America I can safely say diversity is the thing that has made this nation great.

Americans apparently want to function in diverse workplaces, but don't want diversity to factor into hiring and promotion decisions?

Americans See Advantages and Challenges in Country’s Growing Racial and Ethnic Diversity

"As the United States becomes more racially and ethnically diverse, and as companies from Wall Street to Silicon Valley grapple with how to build workforces that reflect these changing demographics, Americans have a complicated, even contradictory, set of views about the impact of diversity and the best way to achieve it.

"Most say it’s a good thing that the country has a diverse population, but many also say this introduces its own set of challenges.

"And while a majority values workplace diversity, few endorse the idea of taking race or ethnicity into consideration in hiring and promotions, according to a new Pew Research Center survey."

 

[georgephillip]

Don't ask Bernie.
Ask Trotsky or Trump.
From 1934:

"Introduction from Fourth International

"The campaign against Marxist ideas sponsored by the capitalist witchhunters today aims to implant the false impression that Communism is completely alien to American life and opposed to the welfare of the American people.

"In the Thirties, during the rapid spread of anti-capitalist feelings following the Great Depression, there was considerable popular interest in the prospects of a Communist America.

"On this account the editors of Liberty Magazine turned to Leon Trotsky for a bird’s-eye view of what the Communist future holds for the United States..."

"'At present most Americans regard communism solely in the light of the experience of the Soviet Union.

"'They fear lest Sovietism in America would produce the same material result as it has brought for the culturally backward peoples of the Soviet Union...."

"Actually American soviets will be as different from the Russian soviets as the United States of President Roosevelt differs from the Russian Empire of Czar Nicholas II.

"Yet communism can come in America only through revolution, just as independence and democracy came in America.

"The American temperament is energetic and violent, and it will insist on breaking a good many dishes and upsetting a good many apple carts before communism is firmly established.

"Americans are enthusiasts and sportsmen before they are specialists and statesmen, and it would be contrary to the American tradition to make a major change without choosing sides and cracking heads."

Will Trump upset the capitalists' apple carts?

How many heads will crack before next November?

Leon Trotsky: If America Should Go Communist (1934)

This:

View attachment 304158

How many died from communism last year?

Socialism vs capitalism death toll

 

[Andylusion]

GDP is a perfect example. While it is the best measurement we have, it is still fundamentally flawed. The calculation for GDP is "consumption + government spending + investment + net exports"

You'll notice that government spending, is calculated into GDP. This means that the government spending money.... just spending money.... results in higher GDP.

I agree GDP is fundamentally flawed as a measure of economic health:

Why GDP fails as a measure of well-being

"The textbooks generally point out five problems with using GDP as a measure of well-being:

• GDP counts 'bads' as well as 'goods.' When an earthquake hits and requires rebuilding, GDP increases. When someone gets sick and money is spent on their care, it's counted as part of GDP. But nobody would argue that we're better off because of a destructive earthquake or people getting sick.
• GDP makes no adjustment for leisure time. Imagine two economies with identical standards of living, but in one economy the workday averages 12 hours, while in the other it's only eight. Which country would you rather live in?
• GDP only counts goods that pass through official, organized markets, so it misses home production and black market activity. This is a big omission, particularly in developing countries where much of what's consumed is produced at home (or obtained through barter). This also means if people begin hiring others to clean their homes instead of doing it themselves, or if they go out to dinner instead of cooking at home, GDP will appear to grow even though the total amount produced hasn't changed.
• • GDP doesn't adjust for the distribution of goods. Again, imagine two economies, but this time one has a ruler who gets 90 percent of what's produced, and everyone else subsists -- barely -- on what's left over. In the second, the distribution is considerably more equitable. In both cases, GDP per capita will be the same, but it's clear which economy I'd rather live in.
  • 
    
  • "GDP isn't adjusted for pollution costs. If two economies have the same GDP per capita, but one has polluted air and water while the other doesn't, well-being will be different but GDP per capita won't capture it.

I actually disagree with some of that.

Leisure time, is way over rated. The people with the most leisure time, often are the most miserable. It's people who remain busy, and enjoy what they do that are most happy.

If you doubt that, just look at which countries (in general) have the highest suicide rates? Is it the poorest countries, where people are working 12 hours? Or Affluent countries? Affluent.

In fact, even within affluent countries, which people are more likely to commit suicide? Affluent people. Poor neighborhoods have low suicide rates, compared to the rich areas.
Why Suicides Are More Common in Richer Neighborhoods | TIME.com

Just look at Hollywood. People who have endless leisure time, who have royalties pouring in while they do nothing... kill themselves. Kurt Cobain, Chester Bennington, and so on.

 

[Andylusion]

Don't ask Bernie.
Ask Trotsky or Trump.
From 1934:

"Introduction from Fourth International

"The campaign against Marxist ideas sponsored by the capitalist witchhunters today aims to implant the false impression that Communism is completely alien to American life and opposed to the welfare of the American people.

"In the Thirties, during the rapid spread of anti-capitalist feelings following the Great Depression, there was considerable popular interest in the prospects of a Communist America.

"On this account the editors of Liberty Magazine turned to Leon Trotsky for a bird’s-eye view of what the Communist future holds for the United States..."

"'At present most Americans regard communism solely in the light of the experience of the Soviet Union.

"'They fear lest Sovietism in America would produce the same material result as it has brought for the culturally backward peoples of the Soviet Union...."

"Actually American soviets will be as different from the Russian soviets as the United States of President Roosevelt differs from the Russian Empire of Czar Nicholas II.

"Yet communism can come in America only through revolution, just as independence and democracy came in America.

"The American temperament is energetic and violent, and it will insist on breaking a good many dishes and upsetting a good many apple carts before communism is firmly established.

"Americans are enthusiasts and sportsmen before they are specialists and statesmen, and it would be contrary to the American tradition to make a major change without choosing sides and cracking heads."

Will Trump upset the capitalists' apple carts?

How many heads will crack before next November?

Leon Trotsky: If America Should Go Communist (1934)

This:

View attachment 304158

How many died from communism last year?

Socialism vs capitalism death toll

Households are in debt, because they buy stuff they can't afford. Has nothing to do with Capitalism or Socialism. You realize that a person earning just $32K a year, places them in the top 1% of wage earners world wide? If you are in the top 1% of the planet, and you are in debt, it's because you are spending to much, not because Capitalism doesn't work.

Kind of like, how Socialists want to spend money on a living wage, food, education and health care, when the government has $20 trillion in debt. You are spending too much. The problem isn't Capitalism, it's your irresponsibility.

Hundreds, if not thousands have died from Socialism just last year. Venezuela, Cuba, North Korea, and so on.

In fact, even China still has people dying from Socialism. Did you ever read up on why people were killing themselves at the Fox Con factory?

The FoxCon Factory in China is a perfect example of the failure of the left-wing to actually research anything.

Fortunately I listen to the BBC, and they had a fascinating documentary on the entire thing. Contrary to the left-wing claims that it was the evil capitalists that were tossing people off the roofs....

It was actually government doing it. China has a huge population, as you know. The problem came when all the jobs were only in the cities. With the government providing education, and housing, and health care, how does the government afford to pay for everyone? Well it simply can't.

So what does the government do, when millions of rural people start migrating into the cities for work?

The Chinese government came up with a solution. You need a residential permit, to move to the cities. If you don't have a residential permit, then you can't use health care, you can't get housing, and you can't send your kids to schools.

Now the government doesn't have to worry about running out of housing, health care, or over crowded schools.

Just one small problem. The rural people still don't have jobs. So they either starve to death, or they go to the city.

So the rural people continued to migrate into the cities, except they had no where to live, because they didn't have a residential permit.

This is why FoxCon had people living at the factory. The company provided people a place to live.

Regardless, these were not slaves to the corporation. All of them could have left any time they wanted. But only big companies like FoxCon could afford to provide housing for workers. And since there were no jobs back in their rural villages, they had no where to go.

Equally they couldn't see their wives or kids either, because without a residential permit, their wives and kids couldn't come be with them. And they couldn't use health care or schools for either, even if they came anyway.

Again, all of this is due to the government socialism.

In a pure capitalist system, they would pay for education, and they would pay for their places to live, and they would pay for their health care. Thus every single worker would be a benefit.

But under a socialist system, where governments have limited funds to provide free-services, the workers are problems, and because of that, they put in place a permit system, and because of that workers were tossing themselves off the roofs.

Socialism is still killing people, right up to this very day. Constantly.

In fact, most of the claims that socialists say are capitalism... are actually socialism killing people.

 

[Andylusion]

As a white male born in America I can safely say diversity is the thing that has made this nation great.

Americans apparently want to function in diverse workplaces, but don't want diversity to factor into hiring and promotion decisions?

Americans See Advantages and Challenges in Country’s Growing Racial and Ethnic Diversity

"As the United States becomes more racially and ethnically diverse, and as companies from Wall Street to Silicon Valley grapple with how to build workforces that reflect these changing demographics, Americans have a complicated, even contradictory, set of views about the impact of diversity and the best way to achieve it.

"Most say it’s a good thing that the country has a diverse population, but many also say this introduces its own set of challenges.

"And while a majority values workplace diversity, few endorse the idea of taking race or ethnicity into consideration in hiring and promotions, according to a new Pew Research Center survey."

Well...................................

If you needed surgery on your neck, and there was a high risk of coming out of surgery a quadriplegic.... do you pick which doctor works on you based on diversity? Or merit?

If you send your wife and daughter on a plane... do you want the engineers that designed that plane to be picked from the best quality? Or the best diversity?

White House task force on coronavirus another example of Trump administration's lack of diversity - CNNPolitics

Do you want the team of doctors working to prevent a Corona epidemic in the US, to be diverse, or the best qualified?

 

[georgephillip]

Leisure time, is way over rated. The people with the most leisure time, often are the most miserable. It's people who remain busy, and enjoy what they do that are most happy.

I think that likely depends on what percentage of your labor is expropriated by others, i.e., those who "own" the means of production.

For example, if one society requires eight hours a day of labor to adequately support a family and another needs 12 hours to produce the same level of existence, I can see where a worker who received the full value of her labor (writers, perhaps) would not object to spending more time working.

I can tell you from experiencing both 40 hours a week of labor and full retirement, the latter is definitely more healthful and fulfilling, at least in my case.

 

[georgephillip]

If you needed surgery on your neck, and there was a high risk of coming out of surgery a quadriplegic.... do you pick which doctor works on you based on diversity? Or merit?

Why do you automatically think diversity and merit are mutually exclusive? Has the level of merit in the NFL and NBA improved since Black Americans were given the opportunity to compete?

Minimal group paradigm - Wikipedia

The minimal group paradigm is a methodology employed in social psychology.[1][2][3]

"Although it may be used for a variety of purposes, it is most well known as a method for investigating the minimal conditions required for discrimination to occur between groups.

"Experiments using this approach have revealed that even arbitrary distinctions between groups, such as preferences for certain paintings [4], beliefs about whether hotdogs are sandwiches [5], or the color of their shirts,[6] can trigger a tendency to favor one's own group at the expense of others, even when it means sacrificing in-group gain."

 

[georgephillip]

Do you want the team of doctors working to prevent a Corona epidemic in the US, to be diverse, or the best qualified?

Trump's response to the coronavirus is not something to praise; it is another example of how much the moron values the opinions of white men who are his mirror image:

Trump Has Sabotaged America’s Coronavirus Response

"Building on the Ebola experience, the Obama administration set up a permanent epidemic monitoring and command group inside the White House National Security Council (NSC) and another in the Department of Homeland Security (DHS)—both of which followed the scientific and public health leads of the National Institutes of Health (NIH) and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the diplomatic advice of the State Department...."

"But that’s all gone now.

"In the spring of 2018, the White House pushed Congress to cut funding for Obama-era disease security programs, proposing to eliminate $252 million in previously committed resources for rebuilding health systems in Ebola-ravaged Liberia, Sierra Leone, and Guinea.

"Under fire from both sides of the aisle, President Donald Trump dropped the proposal to eliminate Ebola funds a month later.

"But other White House efforts included reducing $15 billion in national health spending and cutting the global disease-fighting operational budgets of the CDC, NSC, DHS, and HHS.

"And the government’s $30 million Complex Crises Fund was eliminated."

 

[Andylusion]

If you needed surgery on your neck, and there was a high risk of coming out of surgery a quadriplegic.... do you pick which doctor works on you based on diversity? Or merit?

Why do you automatically think diversity and merit are mutually exclusive? Has the level of merit in the NFL and NBA improved since Black Americans were given the opportunity to compete?

Minimal group paradigm - Wikipedia

The minimal group paradigm is a methodology employed in social psychology.[1][2][3]

"Although it may be used for a variety of purposes, it is most well known as a method for investigating the minimal conditions required for discrimination to occur between groups.

"Experiments using this approach have revealed that even arbitrary distinctions between groups, such as preferences for certain paintings [4], beliefs about whether hotdogs are sandwiches [5], or the color of their shirts,[6] can trigger a tendency to favor one's own group at the expense of others, even when it means sacrificing in-group gain."

Because they are obviously mutually exclusive. You can't have a merit based system, and a diversity based system at the same time. Not possible. And your examples do not contradict that either.

Being excluded from playing, is the opposite of a merit based system as well.

Banning diversity, is just the equal opposite of requiring diversity. Neither is a merit based system.

If you have a black person that is more capable, and qualified than a white guy, and you take the white over the black guy, simply because he's white... obviously that isn't merit based. If there is a white guy that is more qualified and capable than any other black guy, and you take the black guy simply because he's black... obviously that isn't merit based either.

Both of those systems, are mutual exclusive to a merit based system. And that's the problem with your argument.

A merit based system means, who ever merits it, gets it. That means if it is mixed, then it is mixed. If it is all black, then it is all black. And if it is white, then it is all white. If it is asian, then it is all asian.

Whatever group of people is most qualified will get the position, whether it is diverse, or not.

And you yourself, know this. You just are not willing to admit it. If you needed surgery on your neck, and there was a high risk of coming out of surgery a quadriplegic.... do you pick which doctor works on you based on diversity? Or merit?

 

[Andylusion]

Do you want the team of doctors working to prevent a Corona epidemic in the US, to be diverse, or the best qualified?

Trump's response to the coronavirus is not something to praise; it is another example of how much the moron values the opinions of white men who are his mirror image:

Trump Has Sabotaged America’s Coronavirus Response

"Building on the Ebola experience, the Obama administration set up a permanent epidemic monitoring and command group inside the White House National Security Council (NSC) and another in the Department of Homeland Security (DHS)—both of which followed the scientific and public health leads of the National Institutes of Health (NIH) and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the diplomatic advice of the State Department...."

"But that’s all gone now.

"In the spring of 2018, the White House pushed Congress to cut funding for Obama-era disease security programs, proposing to eliminate $252 million in previously committed resources for rebuilding health systems in Ebola-ravaged Liberia, Sierra Leone, and Guinea.

"Under fire from both sides of the aisle, President Donald Trump dropped the proposal to eliminate Ebola funds a month later.

"But other White House efforts included reducing $15 billion in national health spending and cutting the global disease-fighting operational budgets of the CDC, NSC, DHS, and HHS.

"And the government’s $30 million Complex Crises Fund was eliminated."

I agree. But we need to cut something. Spending is out of control, and it needs cut. I propose we cut medicare, medicaid, social security, food stamps, public housing, amtrak, welfare, obama phones, and every entitlement... and then you can fund your Ebola funding.

Again.... we need to stop acting like toddlers. You have X amount of money, and you need to fit your spending, within that funding. Trump is starting to push to reduce spending, and it is the right move. The toddler level left-wing, would spend money until we ended up like Venezuela and Greece. We need to cut the spending back.

 

[Andylusion]

Leisure time, is way over rated. The people with the most leisure time, often are the most miserable. It's people who remain busy, and enjoy what they do that are most happy.

I think that likely depends on what percentage of your labor is expropriated by others, i.e., those who "own" the means of production.

For example, if one society requires eight hours a day of labor to adequately support a family and another needs 12 hours to produce the same level of existence, I can see where a worker who received the full value of her labor (writers, perhaps) would not object to spending more time working.

I can tell you from experiencing both 40 hours a week of labor and full retirement, the latter is definitely more healthful and fulfilling, at least in my case.

How much you need to work, to adequately support a family, is more dependent on how much you think you need to spend, than anything to do with society.

I made $19,000 one year, and during that year I was laid off. Not only did I reduce my debt during that year, but I had more money saved in the bank at the end of that year, than I did at the beginning.

How was I able to do that? It must be because "a lower percentage of my labor was expropriated by others, and society required less than 8-hours a day" right? That's your claim, isn't it? That I was only able to increase my wealth, and save money, because of "society" and "expropriated labor" was reduced, right?

Or how about this.... I spent less money? I simply lived within my means. You can live within your means, almost no matter what your means are. Rice is cheap. You can feed your family on very little. It's a choice. You can live in a smaller place. Go to Europe. They live in tiny shacks, compared to the US. Move to a smaller place, and pay less rent.

So I don't buy this "Can't make it on little, and it's all societies fault" crap. Anyone can be a millionaire at retirement. It's a mathematical fact. The reason people don't, is because they choose not to, with how the live.

 

[georgephillip]

Because they are obviously mutually exclusive. You can't have a merit based system, and a diversity based system at the same time. Not possible. And your examples do not contradict that either.

Being excluded from playing, is the opposite of a merit based system as well.

Do you agree promoting diversity enhances merit? Are you more likely to find a good surgeon or running back by providing all races an equal opportunity to compete?

 

[initforme]

Go ahead try and cut social security and Medicare Medicaid and watch the country go into a tailspin....it's political suicide on top of it. The best part of Trump's speech was where he promised to protect pre existing conditions.

 

[initforme]

Part of what makes America great are things like social security and Medicare....we care about our people...by far the hardest workers in the world. The greatest work ethic is found in america.

 

[deanrd]

Don't ask Bernie.
Ask Trotsky or Trump.
From 1934:

"Introduction from Fourth International

"The campaign against Marxist ideas sponsored by the capitalist witchhunters today aims to implant the false impression that Communism is completely alien to American life and opposed to the welfare of the American people.

"In the Thirties, during the rapid spread of anti-capitalist feelings following the Great Depression, there was considerable popular interest in the prospects of a Communist America.

"On this account the editors of Liberty Magazine turned to Leon Trotsky for a bird’s-eye view of what the Communist future holds for the United States..."

"'At present most Americans regard communism solely in the light of the experience of the Soviet Union.

"'They fear lest Sovietism in America would produce the same material result as it has brought for the culturally backward peoples of the Soviet Union...."

"Actually American soviets will be as different from the Russian soviets as the United States of President Roosevelt differs from the Russian Empire of Czar Nicholas II.

"Yet communism can come in America only through revolution, just as independence and democracy came in America.

"The American temperament is energetic and violent, and it will insist on breaking a good many dishes and upsetting a good many apple carts before communism is firmly established.

"Americans are enthusiasts and sportsmen before they are specialists and statesmen, and it would be contrary to the American tradition to make a major change without choosing sides and cracking heads."

Will Trump upset the capitalists' apple carts?

How many heads will crack before next November?

Leon Trotsky: If America Should Go Communist (1934)

You do know that Vladimir Putin was head of the KGB and he wants to restart the communist Soviet empire? Do you know that, right?

and you also know that Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump stood side-by-side in Helsinki and when Donald Trump was asked if Vladdaddi Putin was involved in our elections Trump said no. Apparently Donald Trump was telling the world you can trust Vladimir Putin and Russia, but don’t trust US intelligence agencies or the United States.

The threat is within, but it’s not Democrats. It’s Trump and his cult like followers.

 

[Andylusion]

Because they are obviously mutually exclusive. You can't have a merit based system, and a diversity based system at the same time. Not possible. And your examples do not contradict that either.

Being excluded from playing, is the opposite of a merit based system as well.

Do you agree promoting diversity enhances merit? Are you more likely to find a good surgeon or running back by providing all races an equal opportunity to compete?

Equal opportunity, is not diversity.

If you hire a team of doctors to fight Corona virus, and all the absolute best candidates are white people..... there is zero diversity.

Equal opportunity and diversity are mutually exclusive.

Why do you think affirmative action even exists? Because when everyone is given equal opportunity, and everything is merit based, sometimes the demographic makeup is extremely homogeneous. In order to achieve the goal of diversity, the government forced diversity to be the goal, instead of merit.

If equal opportunity and diversity were compatible, then why does affirmative action even exist? It exists because merit based selection, does not yield diversity. It's that's simple.

 

[Andylusion]

Part of what makes America great are things like social security and Medicare....we care about our people...by far the hardest workers in the world. The greatest work ethic is found in america.

Really? $122 Trillion in unfunded liabilities, the same problem that sank Greece... that's part of what makes America great? The systems that if not reformed, will destroy the country?

No, you are wrong.

 

[Andylusion]

Go ahead try and cut social security and Medicare Medicaid and watch the country go into a tailspin....it's political suicide on top of it. The best part of Trump's speech was where he promised to protect pre existing conditions.

Hilarious given, the country existed, and grew faster, for the first 100+ years... but now if we don't have these programs, the country will implode. So we are actually more pathetic as a country today, than we were a hundred years ago? Pretty sad. But that's what socialism gets you.

 

[georgephillip]

The threat is within, but it’s not Democrats. It’s Trump and his cult like followers.

Trump and Putin come from a long line of gangsters. It's not unrealistic to believe the KGB began cultivating Trump decades ago.

We may learn more about any money laundering by June when SCOTUS rules on whether or not Trump can keep his financial history secret.

Trump’s ties to the Russian mafia go back 3 decades

"A lightly edited transcript of our conversation follows.

"Sean Illing
"I’ll ask you straightforwardly: Do you believe the Russian government successfully targeted and compromised Trump?

"Craig Unger
"Yes, absolutely. But let’s go back in time, because I think all of this began as a money-laundering operation with the Russian mafia.

"It’s well known that Trump likes doing business with gangsters, in part because they pay top dollar and loan money when traditional banks won’t, so it was a win-win for both sides.

"The key point I want to get across in the book is that the Russian mafia is different than the American mafia, and I think a lot of Americans don’t understand this.

"In Russia, the mafia is essentially a state actor.

"When I interviewed Gen. Oleg Kalugin, who is a former head of counterintelligence in the KGB and had been Vladimir Putin’s boss at one point, I asked him about the mafia. He said, “Oh, it’s part of the KGB. It’s part of the Russian government.”

"And that’s essential to the whole premise of the book. Trump was working with the Russian mafia for more than 30 years. He was profiting from them.

"They rescued him.

"They bailed him out.

"They took him from being $4 billion in debt to becoming a multibillionaire again, and they fueled his political ambitions, starting more than 30 years ago.

"This means Trump was in bed with the Kremlin as well, whether he knew it or not"