Will Republicans ever learn? Indiana governor to sign bill allowing business not to serve gays

[NYcarbineer]

I'd have no problem with that...if I were allowed to refuse to serve Christians. I'd also have less of a problem with this law if the bigots had to advertise who they won't sell to.

Why are they such cowards?

You're starting to catch on. Put up a "Christians not welcome" sign outside vegan cafe's. It would be a public service so that decent folk would know to avoid those places.

As a white man, I would never set foot in a place that had a "white's only" sign - but I defend the right of morons to shoot themselves in the foot by doing it.The left only understands violence, the concept of markets is one that few leftists can grasp.

I'm torn on this one. Since nobody can help being black or gay or whatever and it doesn't interfere with anybody else's beliefs or violate their rights in any way, I would have no problem with issuing business licenses that requires the business to serve all customers that require no service or product that any other customer wouldn't normally get. In other words I think we should be a non discriminatory society in that sense. But asking somebody to participate in a customer's event off premises is something different and I think the business owner should have discretion in whether or not to do that.

And there's the part of me that agrees with you. Liberty does allow people to be complete idiots and shoot themselves in the foot if that is what they choose to do. And that would include alienating 99% of their customers by posting that 'whites only' or 'blacks only' or 'Christians only' or 'Atheists only' or whatever sign.

There is a very narrow group of merchants who must deliver their wares to an off site venue. Are you saying that such merchants should be exempt from discrimination charges simply because they deliver their wares off site?

And do they really "participate", or are they simply plying their trade?

I won't discuss this any further with you Nosmo until you address the off site venues I took some trouble to describe in a previous post. If you are at a somebody's event providing a service, you are participating in that event. Period. And nobody should be forced into participating in somebody's event that they believe is wrong, offensive, or indefensible. And there should be no law that punishes somebody for refusing to participate in somebody else's event that they believe is wrong, offensive, or indefensible.

Nobody is "participating" in the event except the couple. If you bake a cake, you deliver the cake you leave. If you design flowers, you design, you deliver, you leave. Even a photographer or a caterer is not participating, they are taking photos or cooking and serving food and then they clean and leave. None of them are participating in the event, they are conducting the business they advertise.

PA laws have been in effect since the mid 60s on a FEDERAL level. Businesses had (some still do) religious objections to serving blacks...but they had to do it anyway for the past 50+ years. Businesses had (some still do) religious objections to serving Jews, Muslims, etc...but they've had to do it for the past 50+ years.

Either the laws apply equally or we get rid of them equally. You don't get special carve outs because you claim your religious beliefs preclude you from offering your advertised services to "certain" groups of people and you should not get special carve outs because of the business you chose to open. It's the 21st century, if you're in the wedding business, you're going to encounter gays that want to marry. If you live in a state or locality that has passed a PA law protecting gays from discrimination (unlike religion and race, sexual orientation is only protected at the local level...you know, states rights and all), you have choices. You can stop providing that particular service. There's money in cakes, flowers and photos for other events. You can move your business to one of the score or more of states that will allow you to refuse to serve gays, or you can stay where you are and provide the service you advertise to anyone who frequents your establishment.

They probably think that the hotel owner who rents a gay couple the honeymoon suite is participating in the wedding night.

The lengths of absurdity that these people will go to to make an anti-gay argument is prove in and of itself that they don't have any arguments that aren't absurd.

 

[RKMBrown]

Nice projection there. So when the democrats changed their mind and began voting for gay marriage it was only because they were loosing votes and credibility? Or did the democrats vote against gay marriage in the past because otherwise they would loose votes and credibility?

I think most democrats looked at things like DADT and civil unions as a middle ground where the homosexual issue would settle and go away

It did not work out that way and thankfully so

Republicans realize this is a losing issue for them in 2016 and would like it to just go away. The Supreme Court deciding for them keeps them from having to state a position either way

But there is the radical Fag Haters who just can't drop it

So no fag haters that are democrats? Would you have a link to some statistics that back up your apparent claim that democrat fag haters were just kidding and/or being pragmatic, but now their true love of fags is coming out... where the republicans are mostly still fag haters that are hoping the issue disappears? Or is this just some bullshit you are pulling out of your ass?

You are welcome to show me any anti-gay legislation being passed at any level of government by Democrats.......otherwise STFU

Hey, nimrod. It was illegal in just about every state. But if you really want an example: DOMA, was anti-gay legislation signed by Bill Clinton, and supported by nearly every democrat.

DOMA was bad legislation demanded by Republicans

Thankfully, it was overturned by the courts.......most of it

Oh? Why did the democrats listen to republican demands? Why did Clinton bend over and sign it.

 

[RKMBrown]

Liberty is my right to refuse to do business with anyone for any reason.

Liberty is my right to access the public market place. You want to refuse me business? Fine GTF out of my public market.

Public market place, another invention of the left. Your public market place consist of PRIVATE businesses.

ROFL the left did not exist when the commerce clause was drafted. Thx for playing.

Have you actually read the commerce clause lately, the feds were never intended to interfere with individual businesses unless they were dealing across state lines, with foreign countries or indian tribes. The left is the cause of it being expanded beyond all reason.

The commerce clause was meant only to allow the federal government to strike down state created obstacles to commerce like internal tariffs.

Link?

 

[rightwinger]

I think most democrats looked at things like DADT and civil unions as a middle ground where the homosexual issue would settle and go away

It did not work out that way and thankfully so

Republicans realize this is a losing issue for them in 2016 and would like it to just go away. The Supreme Court deciding for them keeps them from having to state a position either way

But there is the radical Fag Haters who just can't drop it

So no fag haters that are democrats? Would you have a link to some statistics that back up your apparent claim that democrat fag haters were just kidding and/or being pragmatic, but now their true love of fags is coming out... where the republicans are mostly still fag haters that are hoping the issue disappears? Or is this just some bullshit you are pulling out of your ass?

You are welcome to show me any anti-gay legislation being passed at any level of government by Democrats.......otherwise STFU

Hey, nimrod. It was illegal in just about every state. But if you really want an example: DOMA, was anti-gay legislation signed by Bill Clinton, and supported by nearly every democrat.

DOMA was bad legislation demanded by Republicans

Thankfully, it was overturned by the courts.......most of it

Oh? Why did the democrats listen to republican demands? Why did Clinton bend over and sign it.

Clinton was an idiot

At the time, nobody envisioned that gay marriage would be actively pursued. But Republicans were afraid of it

Bad legislation any way you look at it

 

[bodecea]

Come on Republicans

I know you love to pander to your gay hating base. But are you ever going to learn?

Indiana Governor Mike Pence is ready to sign into law a bill allowing businesses to refuse service to gays for "religious reasons" . All this ten days before the NCAA Final Four comes to Indianapolis. So what was once an opportunity to show the country what a great location his state is for major events, now becomes a poster child for "We hate gays".
See how many Final Fours come back to Indianapolis. Superbowl? Forget it Mike

But at least you got to score points with your gay hating base

Republicans just can't help themselves.






Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers - CNN.com

The white christian party cries that they are being persecuted for their religion, and yet pass laws to making it OK discriminate against another group

They are screaming for the right of their religion to persecute others

No, actually, they want the right to practice their religion....and that right is in the Bill of Rights, and if they don't want to make cakes for weddings that violate their religious beliefs then the founding document of this country codifies that that don't have to.....

That's fine...then they put signs up stating that....caveat emptor.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Oh? Why did the democrats listen to republican demands? Why did Clinton bend over and sign it.

One theory is that DOMA was a stop-gap measure to relieve political pressure. Without DOMA attempts to amend the Constitution banning SSCM's would have passed Congress and with fellings at the time (late 90's early 00's) such a ban had a chance of passing in enough states.

Because of DOMA, a Constitutional Amendment banning SSCM - while proposed multiple times, never get enough steam to pass.



>>>>

 

[Seawytch]

Come on Republicans

I know you love to pander to your gay hating base. But are you ever going to learn?

Indiana Governor Mike Pence is ready to sign into law a bill allowing businesses to refuse service to gays for "religious reasons" . All this ten days before the NCAA Final Four comes to Indianapolis. So what was once an opportunity to show the country what a great location his state is for major events, now becomes a poster child for "We hate gays".
See how many Final Fours come back to Indianapolis. Superbowl? Forget it Mike

But at least you got to score points with your gay hating base

Republicans just can't help themselves.






Pence to sign bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers - CNN.com

The white christian party cries that they are being persecuted for their religion, and yet pass laws to making it OK discriminate against another group

They are screaming for the right of their religion to persecute others

No, actually, they want the right to practice their religion....and that right is in the Bill of Rights, and if they don't want to make cakes for weddings that violate their religious beliefs then the founding document of this country codifies that that don't have to.....

Their right to practice their religion is not infringed upon. They can still practice it all they want to. They chose to open a business and states can regulate intrastate commerce. If they want their business to be religious, they need to file for tax exempt status as a church...but then there goes the profit margin. Decisions, decisons.

I'd have a lot more respect for these folks the first time they refuse to bake a cake for an interfaith or divorced and remarrying couple...or maybe some fatties.

 

[bodecea]

0

Liberty is my right to access the public market place. You want to refuse me business? Fine GTF out of my public market.

Public market place, another invention of the left. Your public market place consist of PRIVATE businesses.

ROFL the left did not exist when the commerce clause was drafted. Thx for playing.

Have you actually read the commerce clause lately, the feds were never intended to interfere with individual businesses unless they were dealing across state lines, with foreign countries or indian tribes. The left is the cause of it being expanded beyond all reason.

The commerce clause was meant only to allow the federal government to strike down state created obstacles to commerce like internal tariffs.

Link?

Oh? Why did the democrats listen to republican demands? Why did Clinton bend over and sign it.

One theory is that DOMA was a stop-gap measure to relieve political pressure. Without DOMA attempts to amend the Constitution banning SSCM's would have passed Congress and with fellings at the time (late 90's early 00's) such a ban had a chance of passing in enough states.

Because of DOMA, a Constitutional Amendment banning SSCM - while proposed multiple times, never get enough steam to pass.



>>>>

You're starting to catch on. Put up a "Christians not welcome" sign outside vegan cafe's. It would be a public service so that decent folk would know to avoid those places.

As a white man, I would never set foot in a place that had a "white's only" sign - but I defend the right of morons to shoot themselves in the foot by doing it.The left only understands violence, the concept of markets is one that few leftists can grasp.

I'm torn on this one. Since nobody can help being black or gay or whatever and it doesn't interfere with anybody else's beliefs or violate their rights in any way, I would have no problem with issuing business licenses that requires the business to serve all customers that require no service or product that any other customer wouldn't normally get. In other words I think we should be a non discriminatory society in that sense. But asking somebody to participate in a customer's event off premises is something different and I think the business owner should have discretion in whether or not to do that.

And there's the part of me that agrees with you. Liberty does allow people to be complete idiots and shoot themselves in the foot if that is what they choose to do. And that would include alienating 99% of their customers by posting that 'whites only' or 'blacks only' or 'Christians only' or 'Atheists only' or whatever sign.

There is a very narrow group of merchants who must deliver their wares to an off site venue. Are you saying that such merchants should be exempt from discrimination charges simply because they deliver their wares off site?

And do they really "participate", or are they simply plying their trade?

I won't discuss this any further with you Nosmo until you address the off site venues I took some trouble to describe in a previous post. If you are at a somebody's event providing a service, you are participating in that event. Period. And nobody should be forced into participating in somebody's event that they believe is wrong, offensive, or indefensible. And there should be no law that punishes somebody for refusing to participate in somebody else's event that they believe is wrong, offensive, or indefensible.

Nobody is "participating" in the event except the couple. If you bake a cake, you deliver the cake you leave. If you design flowers, you design, you deliver, you leave. Even a photographer or a caterer is not participating, they are taking photos or cooking and serving food and then they clean and leave. None of them are participating in the event, they are conducting the business they advertise.

PA laws have been in effect since the mid 60s on a FEDERAL level. Businesses had (some still do) religious objections to serving blacks...but they had to do it anyway for the past 50+ years. Businesses had (some still do) religious objections to serving Jews, Muslims, etc...but they've had to do it for the past 50+ years.

Either the laws apply equally or we get rid of them equally. You don't get special carve outs because you claim your religious beliefs preclude you from offering your advertised services to "certain" groups of people and you should not get special carve outs because of the business you chose to open. It's the 21st century, if you're in the wedding business, you're going to encounter gays that want to marry. If you live in a state or locality that has passed a PA law protecting gays from discrimination (unlike religion and race, sexual orientation is only protected at the local level...you know, states rights and all), you have choices. You can stop providing that particular service. There's money in cakes, flowers and photos for other events. You can move your business to one of the score or more of states that will allow you to refuse to serve gays, or you can stay where you are and provide the service you advertise to anyone who frequents your establishment.

They probably think that the hotel owner who rents a gay couple the honeymoon suite is participating in the wedding night.

The lengths of absurdity that these people will go to to make an anti-gay argument is prove in and of itself that they don't have any arguments that aren't absurd.

They'd certainly spend the night thinking about it.

 

[RKMBrown]

So no fag haters that are democrats? Would you have a link to some statistics that back up your apparent claim that democrat fag haters were just kidding and/or being pragmatic, but now their true love of fags is coming out... where the republicans are mostly still fag haters that are hoping the issue disappears? Or is this just some bullshit you are pulling out of your ass?

You are welcome to show me any anti-gay legislation being passed at any level of government by Democrats.......otherwise STFU

Hey, nimrod. It was illegal in just about every state. But if you really want an example: DOMA, was anti-gay legislation signed by Bill Clinton, and supported by nearly every democrat.

DOMA was bad legislation demanded by Republicans

Thankfully, it was overturned by the courts.......most of it

Oh? Why did the democrats listen to republican demands? Why did Clinton bend over and sign it.

Clinton was an idiot

At the time, nobody envisioned that gay marriage would be actively pursued. But Republicans were afraid of it

Bad legislation any way you look at it

Homophobia is not a republican only malaise. Homophobia, is a phobia exhibited by people that were taught from childhood that being a homo is a horrible thing. Democrats like you are trying to turn gays into a political football for you to carry on to the end zone. For the thousandth time, just because some democrats and some republicans are homophobic does not mean everyone in that party is homophobic. Just because some people in the democrat party are in the KKK does not mean YOU are in the KKK does it?

 

[Seawytch]

I think most democrats looked at things like DADT and civil unions as a middle ground where the homosexual issue would settle and go away

It did not work out that way and thankfully so

Republicans realize this is a losing issue for them in 2016 and would like it to just go away. The Supreme Court deciding for them keeps them from having to state a position either way

But there is the radical Fag Haters who just can't drop it

So no fag haters that are democrats? Would you have a link to some statistics that back up your apparent claim that democrat fag haters were just kidding and/or being pragmatic, but now their true love of fags is coming out... where the republicans are mostly still fag haters that are hoping the issue disappears? Or is this just some bullshit you are pulling out of your ass?

You are welcome to show me any anti-gay legislation being passed at any level of government by Democrats.......otherwise STFU

Hey, nimrod. It was illegal in just about every state. But if you really want an example: DOMA, was anti-gay legislation signed by Bill Clinton, and supported by nearly every democrat.

DOMA was bad legislation demanded by Republicans

Thankfully, it was overturned by the courts.......most of it

Oh? Why did the democrats listen to republican demands? Why did Clinton bend over and sign it.

Why indeed? Could it have been a {GASP} compromise of some sort?

 

[Seawytch]

You are welcome to show me any anti-gay legislation being passed at any level of government by Democrats.......otherwise STFU

Hey, nimrod. It was illegal in just about every state. But if you really want an example: DOMA, was anti-gay legislation signed by Bill Clinton, and supported by nearly every democrat.

DOMA was bad legislation demanded by Republicans

Thankfully, it was overturned by the courts.......most of it

Oh? Why did the democrats listen to republican demands? Why did Clinton bend over and sign it.

Clinton was an idiot

At the time, nobody envisioned that gay marriage would be actively pursued. But Republicans were afraid of it

Bad legislation any way you look at it

Homophobia is not a republican only malaise. Homophobia, is a phobia exhibited by people that were taught from childhood that being a homo is a horrible thing. Democrats like you are trying to turn gays into a political football for you to carry on to the end zone. For the thousandth time, just because some democrats and some republicans are homophobic does not mean everyone in that party is homophobic. Just because some people in the democrat party are in the KKK does not mean YOU are in the KKK does it?

You're right. Both Democrats and Republicans both support and oppose marriage equality. We wouldn't be where we are today if not for Ted Olson. Republicans got marriage equality passed in NY.

However...when the GOP puts anti gay rhetoric into their platforms, there is simply no comparison among the parties when it comes to gay civil rights. How many GOP votes took down DADT?

 

[RKMBrown]

Oh? Why did the democrats listen to republican demands? Why did Clinton bend over and sign it.

One theory is that DOMA was a stop-gap measure to relieve political pressure. Without DOMA attempts to amend the Constitution banning SSCM's would have passed Congress and with fellings at the time (late 90's early 00's) such a ban had a chance of passing in enough states.

Because of DOMA, a Constitutional Amendment banning SSCM - while proposed multiple times, never get enough steam to pass.



>>>>

Meh... then you could make that argument about every bad law written... hey we were just kidding that was a stop-gap meant to stop the other side from doing even worse to you.

 

[rightwinger]

You are welcome to show me any anti-gay legislation being passed at any level of government by Democrats.......otherwise STFU

Hey, nimrod. It was illegal in just about every state. But if you really want an example: DOMA, was anti-gay legislation signed by Bill Clinton, and supported by nearly every democrat.

DOMA was bad legislation demanded by Republicans

Thankfully, it was overturned by the courts.......most of it

Oh? Why did the democrats listen to republican demands? Why did Clinton bend over and sign it.

Clinton was an idiot

At the time, nobody envisioned that gay marriage would be actively pursued. But Republicans were afraid of it

Bad legislation any way you look at it

Homophobia is not a republican only malaise. Homophobia, is a phobia exhibited by people that were taught from childhood that being a homo is a horrible thing. Democrats like you are trying to turn gays into a political football for you to carry on to the end zone. For the thousandth time, just because some democrats and some republicans are homophobic does not mean everyone in that party is homophobic. Just because some people in the democrat party are in the KKK does not mean YOU are in the KKK does it?

I never said everyone who is Republican is homophobic

But defining marriage as between one man and one woman was part of the Republican platform in 2012
98% of Republicans, when asked their position parrot....I believe marriage is between one man and one woman
It is republicans pushing legislation and state congressional amendments banning gay marriage
90% of Republicans voted against repeal of DADT

 

[NYcarbineer]

You are welcome to show me any anti-gay legislation being passed at any level of government by Democrats.......otherwise STFU

Hey, nimrod. It was illegal in just about every state. But if you really want an example: DOMA, was anti-gay legislation signed by Bill Clinton, and supported by nearly every democrat.

DOMA was bad legislation demanded by Republicans

Thankfully, it was overturned by the courts.......most of it

Oh? Why did the democrats listen to republican demands? Why did Clinton bend over and sign it.

Clinton was an idiot

At the time, nobody envisioned that gay marriage would be actively pursued. But Republicans were afraid of it

Bad legislation any way you look at it

Homophobia is not a republican only malaise. Homophobia, is a phobia exhibited by people that were taught from childhood that being a homo is a horrible thing. Democrats like you are trying to turn gays into a political football for you to carry on to the end zone. For the thousandth time, just because some democrats and some republicans are homophobic does not mean everyone in that party is homophobic. Just because some people in the democrat party are in the KKK does not mean YOU are in the KKK does it?

Do you need to be reminded what the R/D vote was on the Indiana bill?

 

[RKMBrown]

So no fag haters that are democrats? Would you have a link to some statistics that back up your apparent claim that democrat fag haters were just kidding and/or being pragmatic, but now their true love of fags is coming out... where the republicans are mostly still fag haters that are hoping the issue disappears? Or is this just some bullshit you are pulling out of your ass?

You are welcome to show me any anti-gay legislation being passed at any level of government by Democrats.......otherwise STFU

Hey, nimrod. It was illegal in just about every state. But if you really want an example: DOMA, was anti-gay legislation signed by Bill Clinton, and supported by nearly every democrat.

DOMA was bad legislation demanded by Republicans

Thankfully, it was overturned by the courts.......most of it

Oh? Why did the democrats listen to republican demands? Why did Clinton bend over and sign it.

Why indeed? Could it have been a {GASP} compromise of some sort?

How do you know it was the democrats compromising and not the republicans? I can remember quite a few homophobic statements from Clinton, and Obama. How many times did they have to state that they believe in marriage being between a man and a woman? Was that a compromise too?

In June of 1996 Clinton states, “I remain opposed to same-sex marriage. I believe marriage is an institution for the union of a man and a woman. This has been my long-standing position, and it is not being reviewed or considered.”

In 1998 Barrack Obama said, "I believe marriage is between a man and a woman. I am not in favor of gay marriage."

 

[RKMBrown]

Hey, nimrod. It was illegal in just about every state. But if you really want an example: DOMA, was anti-gay legislation signed by Bill Clinton, and supported by nearly every democrat.

DOMA was bad legislation demanded by Republicans

Thankfully, it was overturned by the courts.......most of it

Oh? Why did the democrats listen to republican demands? Why did Clinton bend over and sign it.

Clinton was an idiot

At the time, nobody envisioned that gay marriage would be actively pursued. But Republicans were afraid of it

Bad legislation any way you look at it

Homophobia is not a republican only malaise. Homophobia, is a phobia exhibited by people that were taught from childhood that being a homo is a horrible thing. Democrats like you are trying to turn gays into a political football for you to carry on to the end zone. For the thousandth time, just because some democrats and some republicans are homophobic does not mean everyone in that party is homophobic. Just because some people in the democrat party are in the KKK does not mean YOU are in the KKK does it?

I never said everyone who is Republican is homophobic

But defining marriage as between one man and one woman was part of the Republican platform in 2012
98% of Republicans, when asked their position parrot....I believe marriage is between one man and one woman
It is republicans pushing legislation and state congressional amendments banning gay marriage
90% of Republicans voted against repeal of DADT

Which was also a part of SLIGHTLY EARLIER DEMOCRAT PLATFORMS. The dems merely changed slightly faster on this one topic, coincidentally right as the polls on the topic changed.

 

[Uncensored2008]

I just had a pizza delivered to my home. Does that mean the delivery boy and store manager approve of me?

The home is the most intimate of venues. Should a restaurant refuse to deliver to the homes of homosexuals? Or are those deliveries simply part and parcel of that restaurant's business?

Was the pizza made by a gay cook? Should you be forced by law to buy 50% of all food from gay cooks?

The restaurant should deliver to whom they choose, for whatever reason they choose; just as you may buy from whom you choose, for whatever reason you choose.

Civil rights really are something you have no concept at all of.

 

[Coyote]

Maybe it's a good thing Indiana is doing it. It reinforces their core message: We believe in the right to discriminate against anyone we hate because we can pretend it violates our "religious beliefs" (trying to remember what Jesus said about treating other people...but nothing quite matches this charade). We also believe that we shouldn't force business' to disclose this by posting signs because those damn (insert group of choice: fags, blacks, Jews, Catholics, etc) deserve to be publically humiliated by being publically turned away. Let's remember, our important legislative achievement here is far more critical than passing a budget, fixing the infrastructure, improving the economy. Discrimmination is the Republican mantra these days - just insert disclaimer: religious liberty.

 

[bodecea]

Maybe it's a good thing Indiana is doing it. It reinforces their core message: We believe in the right to discriminate against anyone we hate because we can pretend it violates our "religious beliefs" (trying to remember what Jesus said about treating other people...but nothing quite matches this charade). We also believe that we shouldn't force business' to disclose this by posting signs because those damn (insert group of choice: fags, blacks, Jews, Catholics, etc) deserve to be publically humiliated by being publically turned away. Let's remember, our important legislative achievement here is far more critical than passing a budget, fixing the infrastructure, improving the economy. Discrimmination is the Republican mantra these days - just insert disclaimer: religious liberty.

And make sure you get pics of you surrounded by people wearing "religious" garb.....but only Christian and Jewish religious garb.

 

[paperview]

So no fag haters that are democrats? Would you have a link to some statistics that back up your apparent claim that democrat fag haters were just kidding and/or being pragmatic, but now their true love of fags is coming out... where the republicans are mostly still fag haters that are hoping the issue disappears? Or is this just some bullshit you are pulling out of your ass?

You are welcome to show me any anti-gay legislation being passed at any level of government by Democrats.......otherwise STFU

Hey, nimrod. It was illegal in just about every state. But if you really want an example: DOMA, was anti-gay legislation signed by Bill Clinton, and supported by nearly every democrat.

DOMA was bad legislation demanded by Republicans

Thankfully, it was overturned by the courts.......most of it

Oh? Why did the democrats listen to republican demands? Why did Clinton bend over and sign it.

Clinton was an idiot

At the time, nobody envisioned that gay marriage would be actively pursued. But Republicans were afraid of it

Bad legislation any way you look at it

Yes.

Clinton shouldn't have signed it -- but even if he hadn't, it would have passed.

They had a veto-proof majority.