Will someone tell me the difference between [modern] liberalism and communism?

[Vox]

There is a big difference between socialists and communists.

Just like there are differences between a baby and an adult. Socialism eventually becomes communism. Understand human nature and you'll understand that the mindset of those who want to begin to control people under socialism will eventually want total control.

The reason socialism becomes communism is because people start to realize that the few start to carry the weight of the many. People lose their desire to be innovative or work harder because they will not benefit. The government then steps in and forces some people to work, while still keeping everyone "equal."

Any idealism based on equal outcomes is doomed to failure. It goes against human nature to be controlled and forced to do as the dictator pleases.

There are a number of types of socialism: Feudal, Utopian, German or true, Clerical, Modern, syndlcalism, Democratic, Meritocratic, Free Market. Anachronism and then Marx's scientific socialism. Scientific socialism said communism was inevitable and was more of an historical concept than reality. Marx was wrong of course, but Marx's use of the word gave conservatives and Republican a battle cry for years, "socialism leads to communism." Most economies today are believed to a mixture of capitalism and socialism, as in the United States and Europe.

Can anyone name a nation today or in the past that practiced Marxian communism? No nation has, and the USSR quickly dropped communism a few years after their revolution as not workable.
Remember under Marxian communism, a nation had no taxes, no government, no money, no class system.
An interesting thing occurred in Germany in the 1890's, communism was appealing to some Europeans so Otto Bismarck brought to Germany socialized medicine to blunt some of the appeal of communism.

nobody ever tried marxian communism. military communism in soviet union for few months of 1918 was just totalitarian grip during the war, not an attempt at communism.
the economic model in USSR was socialism and there the other model of socialism at the time was fascist model, but it was too short to evolve to anything. all others throughout the world were and are the variations of the soviet model.

socialism is based on a theory that society can function without private property on the means of production. It can, but it is misery and bloodshed from the very beginning to the very end - as all the utopias proved before ( the ones which failed) and continue to prove - the ones which still hang in there.

from everybody by their abilities to everybody by their work - which is the formula of socialism - does not work even with totalitarian regime guarding it.

from everybody by their abilities to everybody by their necessities never existed - except in GULAG.

 

[Vox]

So was Marx, right or wrong with dialectical materialism?

yes, he was wrong in the prediction of how the society will develop. he was right in dividing the structure of the society to base ( economic model) and superstructure( model of the government, laws, judicial system, culture, etc)

 

[Intense]

I have a question for modern liberals in any political party. Please tell me the differences between your beliefs and those of Karl Marx, the father of communism? Seriously now, I’m not joking. Let’s have an honest dialogue and I promise that I’ll listen with an open mind.

Every single time a conservative such as me calls some liberal idiot a communist we get pilloried and the liberal useful idiot points out that they don’t stand for the outright ownership of all private property. Okay, I get that. But, you do apparently stand for government control of all property and industry and you believe in central planning, key components of communism.

Even people like Lawrence O’Donnell of MSNBC are coming out now and proudly proclaiming their socialism (socialism is the economic philosophy of communism).

Here’s the video of old Larry proclaiming his socialism:

MSNBC Anchor O'Donnell: "I Am A Socialist. I Live To The Extreme Left Of You Mere Liberals!" - YouTube

I know it is off the topic of my question, but just for fun, let’s listen to Milton Friedman compare Socialism and Capitalism while he takes Phil Donahue to task – a video that President Obama and Michael Moore need to watch:

Milton Friedman - Socialism vs. Capitalism - YouTube

Okay, below are the ten planks of communism and you can compare them yourselves to what we currently have in America and what liberals traditionally argue in favor of. If the answer is simply a matter of degrees then tell me that. I really – honestly want to know the differences.
Let’s take a look at the ten planks of communism.

1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all right of inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
8. Equal liability of all to labour. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equitable distribution of the population over the country.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children’s factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production.

Right now, the federal government owns approximately 30% of all American land. Private property owners pay local property taxes (the application of rents to public purposes) to fund various local, state and federal programs. We have a heavy progressive income tax, credit has been centralized under the federal government as have communications and transportation, agriculture and industry are being combined through corporate farms, and of course we’ve had “free public education” for decades in America.

We also used to have a heavy inheritance tax and liberals are arguing for that again, claiming that you have no right to bequeath your property or money to your children or other relatives.

Okay, some brave liberal out there please explain the differences between that in which you believe, support and urge with communism. I’ll listen with an open mind.

It's like when you are driving, you want to make 1 right or 3 left turns?

 

[regent]

So was Marx, right or wrong with dialectical materialism?

yes, he was wrong in the prediction of how the society will develop. he was right in dividing the structure of the society to base ( economic model) and superstructure( model of the government, laws, judicial system, culture, etc)

Why has the society in the United States not developed as Marx predicted?

 

[Vox]

So was Marx, right or wrong with dialectical materialism?

yes, he was wrong in the prediction of how the society will develop. he was right in dividing the structure of the society to base ( economic model) and superstructure( model of the government, laws, judicial system, culture, etc)

Why has the society in the United States not developed as Marx predicted?

because it was blessed not to have the radicals willing to turn the society upside down to implement it.

it does not DEVELOP by itself - because it is a failed conception.

it takes a coup to be imposed

 

[R.C. Christian]

Lenin tried socialism first.

 

[Vox]

Lenin tried socialism first.

and it didn't work.

 

[bripat9643]

So was Marx, right or wrong with dialectical materialism?

Obviously wrong.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

So was Marx, right or wrong with dialectical materialism?

yes, he was wrong in the prediction of how the society will develop. he was right in dividing the structure of the society to base ( economic model) and superstructure( model of the government, laws, judicial system, culture, etc)

Why has the society in the United States not developed as Marx predicted?

Because we still have guns.

 

[francoHFW]

Socialism has never ''turned into communism'', communism has always been put in by revolution...

A GOP style plan to get everyone health insurance and preventive care and reform our ridiculously expensive disaster of a health ''system', and giving the victims of a Pub Great Recession existing help to prevent hunger and homelessness is hardly communism. Incredibly misinformed and hateful...

 

[regent]

yes, he was wrong in the prediction of how the society will develop. he was right in dividing the structure of the society to base ( economic model) and superstructure( model of the government, laws, judicial system, culture, etc)

Why has the society in the United States not developed as Marx predicted?

because it was blessed not to have the radicals willing to turn the society upside down to implement it.

it does not DEVELOP by itself - because it is a failed conception.

it takes a coup to be imposed

So is there a difference between liberals and communists?

 

[Neotrotsky]

Will someone tell me the difference between [modern] liberalism and communism?

The communists could no longer deny the failure of leftist thinking when their system
fully collapsed around them. They were forced to get past the 'denial stage"


The liberals are still in the denial stage

As we can see from the many apologists for Papa Obama and the
rest of the reactionary left.

 

[francoHFW]

It's like conservatives and Nazis...idiot..

 

[regent]

"For the framers of the Constitution were the most liberal thinkers of all the ages and the charter they produced out of the liberal revolution of their time has never been and is not now surpassed in liberal thought."
General Douglas MacArthur.

Is the above what they are teaching at West Point and Annapolis that liberal thought is good and our framers used liberal thoughts to frame the Constitution.
We have before us on these very boards proof produced by posters, that liberalism is communism. Those schools should be closed as un-American.

When MacArthur, no lefty, said this 'liberal' meant something rather different. As it still does in places other than America.

I think liberalism as conservatism has core values, and from these core values or beliefs there are different ideas and methods for achieving those core beliefs. Just as there are Tea party conservatives that have some of the same core values as conservatism but believe in different ways to achieve those values, so it is with liberalism.
What are the core values of conservatism?

 

[Vox]

Why has the society in the United States not developed as Marx predicted?

because it was blessed not to have the radicals willing to turn the society upside down to implement it.

it does not DEVELOP by itself - because it is a failed conception.

it takes a coup to be imposed

So is there a difference between liberals and communists?

liberals have nothing to do with communists, they are the opposite political platform ( classic liberals)
Leftists - do.
and yes, a lot of nowadays leftards are simply commies.

 

[Vox]

Will someone tell me the difference between [modern] liberalism and communism?[/B]

The communists could no longer deny the failure of leftist thinking when their system
fully collapsed around them. They were forced to get past the 'denial stage"


The liberals are still in the denial stage

As we can see from the many apologists for Papa Obama and the
rest of the reactionary left.

By the time the system collapsed there were no true believers in the socialist/commie system - it has been degenerating too long to have believers in it.
The very system and it's misery is a an contra-argument for it's existence.
That is why it would be extremely educational for our leftards to ship them to north Korea and let them survive there for a year.
would cure them of the leftardism forever.

you can not find true believers in misery in the very midst of it.

 

[francoHFW]

The only collapse anyone but the brainwashed RW CAN SEE IS THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION ONE. Any chance the same dumbass party can stop wrecking the recovery with phony crises....you can have the phony scandals- no one gives a damn....

 

[Mr. H.]

The only collapse anyone but the brainwashed RW CAN SEE IS THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION ONE. Any chance the same dumbass party can stop wrecking the recovery with phony crises....you can have the phony scandals- no one gives a damn....

You sad delusional, misdirected poor soul.

 

[Vox]

The only collapse anyone but the brainwashed RW CAN SEE IS THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION ONE. Any chance the same dumbass party can stop wrecking the recovery with phony crises....you can have the phony scandals- no one gives a damn....

You sad delusional, misdirected poor soul.

just ignore his incoherent blubber and he will go away

 

[Peterf]

yes, he was wrong in the prediction of how the society will develop. he was right in dividing the structure of the society to base ( economic model) and superstructure( model of the government, laws, judicial system, culture, etc)

Why has the society in the United States not developed as Marx predicted?

Because we still have guns.

I don't think so. Society has not developed as Marx predicted in all other countries - where they DON'T have guns. The UK if you want an example.

Marxism has been useless at predicting - a bit like "climate science" now that I come to think of it.