Wind Power Extreme Costs Hidden, Maintenance, Consumers must pay

[Tommy Tainant]

Wind Power Extreme Costs Hidden, Maintenance, Consumers must pay

As opposed to dirty energy sources where the costs are picked up be Big Energy ?

 

[elektra]

Wind Power Extreme Costs Hidden, Maintenance, Consumers must pay

As opposed to dirty energy sources where the costs are picked up be Big Energy ?

First and foremost, Wind Power Increase the use of "dirty energy sources".

And what is wrong with Big Energy paying for their costs, versus the Government and the Public Rate Payers subsidizing Wind Power?

Here we got Tommy complaining that Big Energy pays or uses its profit to keep its industry clean? The only other choice is to have the government cover that cost, which is what we do with Wind Power.

Unbelievable, I guess the alternative is simple a Marxist Dictatorship in which Tommy decides what is clean, what is not, what we should pay, based on what Tommy believes.

Yet, the one fact that Tommy and all the Big Government Dictatorship advocates do not talk about is how much they increase the use of Hydrocarbons to manufacture the World's largest, newest, heavy industry, millions of Wind Turbines. It is as if each of these 500 ton monsters do not use over a 1,000 tons of hydrocarbons to manufacture.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Wind Power Extreme Costs Hidden, Maintenance, Consumers must pay

As opposed to dirty energy sources where the costs are picked up be Big Energy ?

Big Oil loves wind and solar farms because everyone is at its heart a fossil fuel burning plant

 

[elektra]

Every notice how Tammy Tainted just links and runs and can never support his/her contention?

 

[cnm]

Well, then it is a good thing that I included much more than one link to more than one place.

Pierre Gosselin says:

October 23, 2008 at 2:03 am

-2.5°C by 2020!

 

[cnm]

Why? We were told the Green Industry was free and clean.

How about providing much more than one link to this steaming pile?

 

[cnm]

Maintenance costs are not accounted for

Where does it say that in your link?

 

[cnm]

It is as if each of these 500 ton monsters do not use over a 1,000 tons of hydrocarbons to manufacture.

It's as if you've avoided posting how much hydrocarbon would have to have be used to provide the equivalent amount of power over the lifespan of the wind turbine.

 

[Syriusly]

As the turbine turns,
It sounds like a bad soap opera spin off, the stories that can now be told about the Government dictating that consumers must buy expensive Wind Turbines, but sadly it is reality.

We here of German families power being turned off when they can not afford the extreme costs.
In California the electric bills of middle classed families are now paid with welfare programs.

Why? We were told the Green Industry was free and clean. But sadly, reality emerges in yet another way.

Maintenance costs are not accounted for, and have been extreme, in some cases doubling the cost of Wind Power.

Wind turbine maintenance costs to almost double by 2020

Wind turbine maintenance costs to almost double by 2020

19 March 2015, source edie newsroom

The global maintenance expenditure on wind turbines - vital to productivity - is expected to rise from $9.25bn in 2014 to $17bn in 2020

I am amused that Elektra is back with her anti-wind propaganda

 

[elektra]

As the turbine turns,
It sounds like a bad soap opera spin off, the stories that can now be told about the Government dictating that consumers must buy expensive Wind Turbines, but sadly it is reality.

We here of German families power being turned off when they can not afford the extreme costs.
In California the electric bills of middle classed families are now paid with welfare programs.

Why? We were told the Green Industry was free and clean. But sadly, reality emerges in yet another way.

Maintenance costs are not accounted for, and have been extreme, in some cases doubling the cost of Wind Power.

Wind turbine maintenance costs to almost double by 2020

Wind turbine maintenance costs to almost double by 2020

19 March 2015, source edie newsroom

The global maintenance expenditure on wind turbines - vital to productivity - is expected to rise from $9.25bn in 2014 to $17bn in 2020

I am amused that Elektra is back with her anti-wind propaganda

and yet, after so many months, the best you have, is to ignore a dozen sources I provide, it certainly is nice to know that after a year you still sting so much, to, from my, rebuttal to your last rant that you find my thread and respond with such a weak, pathetic, post.

 

[elektra]

It is as if each of these 500 ton monsters do not use over a 1,000 tons of hydrocarbons to manufacture.

It's as if you've avoided posting how much hydrocarbon would have to have be used to provide the equivalent amount of power over the lifespan of the wind turbine.

I think you were drinking, what are you trying to state? That it does not take any hydrocarbons to manufacture a 500 ton wind turbine?

Wind Turbines provide almost no power and once you add the maintenance to the expense, you are not even breaking even.

When a Wind Turbine goes bankrupt, that is the same as if they did not recoup the amount of hydrocarbons it took to build them.

A failure is a failure, when they fail they do not recoup the costs, in CO2 to build them.

 

[elektra]

Maintenance costs are not accounted for

Where does it say that in your link?

which link, I gave many links, maybe you could quote the link you got a problem with so I can address your concern

 

[cnm]

I am amused that Elektra is back with her anti-wind propaganda

The best bit is where an article forecasting increased total maintenance costs is used to assert maintenance costs are ignored.

 

[cnm]

Maintenance costs are not accounted for

Where does it say that in your link?

which link, I gave many links, maybe you could quote the link you got a problem with so I can address your concern

The link I linked in my post, ffs, which is also the link in your OP where you assert maintenance costs are not accounted for.

 

[cnm]

Wind Turbines provide almost no power and once you add the maintenance to the expense, you are not even breaking even.

Link?

Wind energy frequently asked questions (FAQ)| EWEA

How long does a wind turbine work for?

Wind turbines can carry on generating electricity for 20-25 years. Over their lifetime they will be running continuously for as much as 120,000 hours. This compares with the design lifetime of a car engine, which is 4,000 to 6,000 hours

Over the course of a year, it will typically generate about 24% of the theoretical maximum output (41% offshore). This is known as its capacity factor. The capacity factor of conventional power stations is on average 50%-80%. Because of stoppages for maintenance or breakdowns, no power plant generates power for 100% of the time.

How much electricity can one wind turbine generate?

The output of a wind turbine depends on the turbine's size and the wind's speed through the rotor.

An average onshore wind turbine with a capacity of 2.5–3 MW can produce more than 6 million kWh in a year – enough to supply 1,500 average EU households with electricity.
An average offshore wind turbine of 3.6 MW can power more than 3,312 average EU households.

How much coal, natural gas, or petroleum is used to generate a kilowatthour of electricity?

(EIA)

Two formulas that can be used to calculate the amount of fuel used to generate a kilowatthour (kWh) of electricity:

• • Amount of fuel used per kWh = Heat rate (in Btu per kWh) / Fuel heat content (in Btu per physical unit)
  • Kilowatthour generated per unit of fuel used = Fuel heat content (in Btu per physical unit) / Heat rate (in Btu per kWh)

Calculation examples using these two formulas and the assumptions below:

• Amount of fuel used to generate 1 kilowatthour (kWh):
  
  • • Coal = 0.00052 short tons or 1.05 pounds
    • Natural gas = 0.01010 Mcf (an Mcf equals 1,000 cubic feet)
    • Petroleum = 0.00175 barrels (or 0.07 gallons)
  • Kilowatthour generated per unit of fuel used:
    • 1,904 kWh per ton, 0.95 kWh per pound, of coal
    • 99 kWh per Mcf (1,000 cubic feet) of natural gas
    • 570 kWh per barrel, or 13.6 kWh per gallon, of petroleum

So, whatever a ton of 'hydrocarbon' is, the coal used to produce the power of an average onshore 2.5–3 MW wind turbine over a twenty year lifetime is

6 million kWh x 20 years = 120 million kWh lifetime onshore 2.5–3 MW wind turbine electricity production

divided by 1904 kWh/ton of coal = 63,025 tons of coal.

 

[cnm]

I am amused that Elektra is back with her anti-wind propaganda

A few amps short of a watt...

 

[Skull Pilot]

Wind Turbines provide almost no power and once you add the maintenance to the expense, you are not even breaking even.

Link?

Wind energy frequently asked questions (FAQ)| EWEA

How long does a wind turbine work for?

Wind turbines can carry on generating electricity for 20-25 years. Over their lifetime they will be running continuously for as much as 120,000 hours. This compares with the design lifetime of a car engine, which is 4,000 to 6,000 hours

Over the course of a year, it will typically generate about 24% of the theoretical maximum output (41% offshore). This is known as its capacity factor. The capacity factor of conventional power stations is on average 50%-80%. Because of stoppages for maintenance or breakdowns, no power plant generates power for 100% of the time.

How much electricity can one wind turbine generate?

The output of a wind turbine depends on the turbine's size and the wind's speed through the rotor.

An average onshore wind turbine with a capacity of 2.5–3 MW can produce more than 6 million kWh in a year – enough to supply 1,500 average EU households with electricity.
An average offshore wind turbine of 3.6 MW can power more than 3,312 average EU households.

How much coal, natural gas, or petroleum is used to generate a kilowatthour of electricity?

(EIA)

Two formulas that can be used to calculate the amount of fuel used to generate a kilowatthour (kWh) of electricity:

• • Amount of fuel used per kWh = Heat rate (in Btu per kWh) / Fuel heat content (in Btu per physical unit)
  • Kilowatthour generated per unit of fuel used = Fuel heat content (in Btu per physical unit) / Heat rate (in Btu per kWh)

Calculation examples using these two formulas and the assumptions below:

• Amount of fuel used to generate 1 kilowatthour (kWh):
  
  • • Coal = 0.00052 short tons or 1.05 pounds
    • Natural gas = 0.01010 Mcf (an Mcf equals 1,000 cubic feet)
    • Petroleum = 0.00175 barrels (or 0.07 gallons)
  • Kilowatthour generated per unit of fuel used:
    • 1,904 kWh per ton, 0.95 kWh per pound, of coal
    • 99 kWh per Mcf (1,000 cubic feet) of natural gas
    • 570 kWh per barrel, or 13.6 kWh per gallon, of petroleum

So, whatever a ton of 'hydrocarbon' is, the coal used to produce the power of an average onshore 2.5–3 MW wind turbine over a twenty year lifetime is

6 million kWh x 20 years = 120 million kWh lifetime onshore 2.5–3 MW wind turbine electricity production

divided by 1904 kWh/ton of coal = 63,025 tons of coal.

I like how you use the maximum rated capacity in your estimates

FYI it has been shown that wind mills only produce on average 30% at best of their rated capacity and usually far far less
European Renewable Energy performance and costs: 2014

 

[jon_berzerk]

Wind Turbines provide almost no power and once you add the maintenance to the expense, you are not even breaking even.

Link?

Wind energy frequently asked questions (FAQ)| EWEA

How long does a wind turbine work for?

Wind turbines can carry on generating electricity for 20-25 years. Over their lifetime they will be running continuously for as much as 120,000 hours. This compares with the design lifetime of a car engine, which is 4,000 to 6,000 hours

Over the course of a year, it will typically generate about 24% of the theoretical maximum output (41% offshore). This is known as its capacity factor. The capacity factor of conventional power stations is on average 50%-80%. Because of stoppages for maintenance or breakdowns, no power plant generates power for 100% of the time.

How much electricity can one wind turbine generate?

The output of a wind turbine depends on the turbine's size and the wind's speed through the rotor.

An average onshore wind turbine with a capacity of 2.5–3 MW can produce more than 6 million kWh in a year – enough to supply 1,500 average EU households with electricity.
An average offshore wind turbine of 3.6 MW can power more than 3,312 average EU households.

How much coal, natural gas, or petroleum is used to generate a kilowatthour of electricity?

(EIA)

Two formulas that can be used to calculate the amount of fuel used to generate a kilowatthour (kWh) of electricity:

• • Amount of fuel used per kWh = Heat rate (in Btu per kWh) / Fuel heat content (in Btu per physical unit)
  • Kilowatthour generated per unit of fuel used = Fuel heat content (in Btu per physical unit) / Heat rate (in Btu per kWh)

Calculation examples using these two formulas and the assumptions below:

• Amount of fuel used to generate 1 kilowatthour (kWh):
  
  • • Coal = 0.00052 short tons or 1.05 pounds
    • Natural gas = 0.01010 Mcf (an Mcf equals 1,000 cubic feet)
    • Petroleum = 0.00175 barrels (or 0.07 gallons)
  • Kilowatthour generated per unit of fuel used:
    • 1,904 kWh per ton, 0.95 kWh per pound, of coal
    • 99 kWh per Mcf (1,000 cubic feet) of natural gas
    • 570 kWh per barrel, or 13.6 kWh per gallon, of petroleum

So, whatever a ton of 'hydrocarbon' is, the coal used to produce the power of an average onshore 2.5–3 MW wind turbine over a twenty year lifetime is

6 million kWh x 20 years = 120 million kWh lifetime onshore 2.5–3 MW wind turbine electricity production

divided by 1904 kWh/ton of coal = 63,025 tons of coal.

I like how you use the maximum rated capacity in your estimates

FYI it has been shown that wind mills only produce on average 30% at best of their rated capacity and usually far far less
European Renewable Energy performance and costs: 2014

well it only makes sense unlike nuclear power or fossil fuel plants

these renewable sources are at the whim of whatever the weather out put is at the time

not a good source of demand energy

 

[Skull Pilot]

Wind Turbines provide almost no power and once you add the maintenance to the expense, you are not even breaking even.

Link?

Wind energy frequently asked questions (FAQ)| EWEA

How long does a wind turbine work for?

Wind turbines can carry on generating electricity for 20-25 years. Over their lifetime they will be running continuously for as much as 120,000 hours. This compares with the design lifetime of a car engine, which is 4,000 to 6,000 hours

Over the course of a year, it will typically generate about 24% of the theoretical maximum output (41% offshore). This is known as its capacity factor. The capacity factor of conventional power stations is on average 50%-80%. Because of stoppages for maintenance or breakdowns, no power plant generates power for 100% of the time.

How much electricity can one wind turbine generate?

The output of a wind turbine depends on the turbine's size and the wind's speed through the rotor.

An average onshore wind turbine with a capacity of 2.5–3 MW can produce more than 6 million kWh in a year – enough to supply 1,500 average EU households with electricity.
An average offshore wind turbine of 3.6 MW can power more than 3,312 average EU households.

How much coal, natural gas, or petroleum is used to generate a kilowatthour of electricity?

(EIA)

Two formulas that can be used to calculate the amount of fuel used to generate a kilowatthour (kWh) of electricity:

• • Amount of fuel used per kWh = Heat rate (in Btu per kWh) / Fuel heat content (in Btu per physical unit)
  • Kilowatthour generated per unit of fuel used = Fuel heat content (in Btu per physical unit) / Heat rate (in Btu per kWh)

Calculation examples using these two formulas and the assumptions below:

• Amount of fuel used to generate 1 kilowatthour (kWh):
  
  • • Coal = 0.00052 short tons or 1.05 pounds
    • Natural gas = 0.01010 Mcf (an Mcf equals 1,000 cubic feet)
    • Petroleum = 0.00175 barrels (or 0.07 gallons)
  • Kilowatthour generated per unit of fuel used:
    • 1,904 kWh per ton, 0.95 kWh per pound, of coal
    • 99 kWh per Mcf (1,000 cubic feet) of natural gas
    • 570 kWh per barrel, or 13.6 kWh per gallon, of petroleum

So, whatever a ton of 'hydrocarbon' is, the coal used to produce the power of an average onshore 2.5–3 MW wind turbine over a twenty year lifetime is

6 million kWh x 20 years = 120 million kWh lifetime onshore 2.5–3 MW wind turbine electricity production

divided by 1904 kWh/ton of coal = 63,025 tons of coal.

I like how you use the maximum rated capacity in your estimates

FYI it has been shown that wind mills only produce on average 30% at best of their rated capacity and usually far far less
European Renewable Energy performance and costs: 2014

well it only makes sense unlike nuclear power or fossil fuel plants

these renewable sources are at the whim of whatever the weather out put is at the time

not a good source of demand energy

Windmills only produce optimal output in a very specific range of wind speeds
Too much wind and they gave to be braked or shut down
Too little and the turbines work inefficiently

I have to laugh at these people who claim to be pro technology and pro science and who indeed are quick to criticize others for being anti science Troglodytes yet they refuse to take an unbiased look at the data

 

[elektra]

So, whatever a ton of 'hydrocarbon' is, the coal used to produce the power of an average onshore 2.5–3 MW wind turbine over a twenty year lifetime is

6 million kWh x 20 years = 120 million kWh lifetime onshore 2.5–3 MW wind turbine electricity production

divided by 1904 kWh/ton of coal = 63,025 tons of coal.

Nice figures, making a ton of cement is equal to 400 tons of coal, your Wind Turbine uses 1,000 tons of concrete for its base, or given the standard 5:1 ratio, 200 tons of cement.

80,000 tons of Coal is needed just for the Concrete in one Wind Turbine's base.
Looks to me, that one Wind Turbine never recoups the energy just for the base? How many tons of coal does it take to make the tower? The blades, the nacelle, the bearings, the gearbox?

Emissions from the Cement Industry

Cement manufacturing is highly energy – and – emissions intensive because of the extreme heat required to produce it. Producing a ton of cement requires 4.7 million BTU of energy, equivalent to about 400 pounds of coal, and generates nearly a tonof CO2. Given its high emissions and critical importance to society, cement is an obvious place to look to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.