With gun violence down, is America arming against an imagined threat?

[Clementine]

Kinda makes one wonder if all the newly armed citizenry might be making the criminals think twice before committing a criminal act.

My thoughts exactly. Crime is still higher in the states with strictest gun control laws. It makes perfect sense. Criminals would prefer that their victims are unarmed. It likely emboldens them to know that they can mug people on the street because it's illegal to carry concealed weapons and most people obey the laws. It gives criminals the edge.

Consider the Colorado theater shooter. Of all the theaters he could have chosen, like ones closer to his home, he opted to commit the murders in the one theater that had a sign saying "gun free zone." That is no accident and it tells us that criminals take that into consideration.

 

[Saigon]

so what you are saying

is that the homicide rate has gone up

not down since gun control was instituted in the UK

imagine that

No, I cannot imagine that because it is not true.

The homicide rate in the UK has risen since 1920 (what a surprise!), but has fallen sharply since gun control was introduced.

It is now at its lowest point since 1983.

 

[Politico]

What's wrong with enabling suicide? Liberals are always fighting for the right to die.

I remember a time when cops wouldn't even try to stop you.

 

[jon_berzerk]

so what you are saying

is that the homicide rate has gone up

not down since gun control was instituted in the UK

imagine that

No, I cannot imagine that because it is not true.

The homicide rate in the UK has risen since 1920 (what a surprise!), but has fallen sharply since gun control was introduced.

It is now at its lowest point since 1983.

it is still up since the introduction of gun control

 

[Saigon]

Jon -

No, it is not up since the introduction of gun control.



UK murder rate has fallen by half since 2003 and every region is safer


Read more: UK Peace Index: Rate of murders and violent crime falling faster than anywhere in Western Europe | Mail Online

 

[jon_berzerk]

Jon -

No, it is not up since the introduction of gun control.



UK murder rate has fallen by half since 2003 and every region is safer


Read more: UK Peace Index: Rate of murders and violent crime falling faster than anywhere in Western Europe | Mail Online

last time i checked 1920 is well before 2003

 

[Saigon]

Jon -

Please look at the graph. The gun control laws were passed in 2003, and are marked in pink.

Notice that the rate of murders now is lower than in 2003.

Thus, the rate of murders is now lower than it was when laws were passed.

I hope that is now clear for you.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Jon -

Please look at the graph. The gun control laws were passed in 2003, and are marked in pink.

Notice that the rate of murders now is lower than in 2003.

Thus, the rate of murders is now lower than it was when laws were passed.

I hope that is now clear for you.

gun control laws was passed in 1920

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1920/43/pdfs/ukpga_19200043_en.pdf

 

[Saigon]

Jon -

The latest gun control laws were passed in 1993. I somehow think they are more relevant than laws passed in 1920, 1873 or 1324.

This is just basic common sense, isn't it?

 

[jon_berzerk]

Jon -

The latest gun control laws were passed in 1993. I somehow think they are more relevant than laws passed in 1920, 1873 or 1324.

who cares what you think

[Section. 1. Restriction on purchase, possession, and use of firearms. 2. Restrictions on manufacture and sale of firearms. 3. Restriction on purchase, possession, and use of firearms by persons under fourteen. 4. Prohibition of sale of firearms to drunk or insane persons. 5. Prohibition on persons convicted of crime carrying or purchasing firearms. 6. Prohibition of manufacture, &c., of weapons discharging noxious liquids, &c. 7. Penalty on possession of firearms with intent to injure. 8. Registration of persons manufacturing or selling firearms. 9. Power to prohibit removals of firearms and ammunition. 10. Production of firearm certificates. 11. Provisions as to forfeiture of firearms, cancellation of certificates, and search warrants. ]

it is the basis of the restrictive gun laws

 

[Unkotare]

Jon -

Please look at the graph. The gun control laws were passed in 2003, and are marked in pink.

Notice that the rate of murders now is lower than in 2003.

Thus, the rate of murders is now lower than it was when laws were passed.

I hope that is now clear for you.

gun control laws was passed in 1920

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1920/43/pdfs/ukpga_19200043_en.pdf

This fact will inevitably be met with "yeahbut, yeahbut..." The Finnish vuohenraiskaaja hates being proven wrong and will never admit to it no matter how evident.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Jon -

Please look at the graph. The gun control laws were passed in 2003, and are marked in pink.

Notice that the rate of murders now is lower than in 2003.

Thus, the rate of murders is now lower than it was when laws were passed.

I hope that is now clear for you.

gun control laws was passed in 1920

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1920/43/pdfs/ukpga_19200043_en.pdf

This fact will inevitably be met with "yeahbut, yeahbut..." The Finnish vuohenraiskaaja hates being proven wrong and will never admit to it no matter how evident.

yes and the beat goes on

--LOL

or is that bleat goes on

--LOL

 

[Saigon]

Jon B -

EXACTLY as Rabbi predicted you would do -

Because when you did back up the claim (and it is obviously true) he would a) demean the source, b) deflect to something unrelated, c) wimp out and never be heard from until he posted the same nonsense elsewhere.

There is no persuading the incomprehending.

Well the facts are there for you if you do ever want to take a look at them.

 

[Sallow]

Rabbi -

Actually, no, it makes perfect sense. Guns do not cause violence - they ENABLE violence. In other words, they allow people who may wish to commit violence to do so more successfully.

That is why countries with more guns have more morders, of course.

The stats here don't matter.

Well, obviously they do - but what you mean is that they do not back up your case, hence you ignore them.

Actually that isn't true either. Japan has a high suicide rate but no guns to speak of. Etc etc. This has been debunked many times. It is an issue of culture, not gun ownership.
The stats don't matter to an individual's decision to go armed because he doesn't want to end up as a statistic. Sorry that wasn't clear enough for you.

Seriously.

When you start throwing stuff like this into the mix, it really shows complete desperation.

 

[FA_Q2]

Jon -

Please look at the graph. The gun control laws were passed in 2003, and are marked in pink.

Notice that the rate of murders now is lower than in 2003.

Thus, the rate of murders is now lower than it was when laws were passed.

I hope that is now clear for you.

Can you link to the gun control measure that you are referring to? Nowhere did I see what defines the pink area in the mail online article. AFAIK, the last major legislation for gun control was passed in 1997 and that virtually outlawed weapons. The reduction in crime a decade later cannot be attributed to that, particularly considering the massive spike in-between. That is correlation without causation. This is even more highlighted by the fact that the UK has had an increasing homicide rate throughout all its previous gun control measures. If that was the cause that dropped rates, why has it only started working now and not during all the other harsh gun control laws that were passed?


Excuse me if it was linked earlier. I have not seen it.

 

[HomeInspect]

Some simple facts after reading this thread..

1.There is no such thing as gun violence. Guns can't be violent.
2. UK and Canada have different courts systems, educational systems, different attitudes, cultures/way of life, different priorities. Theye are not the US
3. Guns sales are up in record numbers in the past few years, while shootings/murders are down.

Spin it any way you want Libtards, but the number of guns has nothing to do with the number of criminals or nut jobs in the country. Any nut job can get a gun illegally, so making it harder for responsible people to get one legally doesn't make a difference.

 

[HomeInspect]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/embed/_T-F_zfoDqI?feature=player_detailpage]GUNS (Virtual State of the Union 2013) - YouTube[/ame]

 

[ba1614]

Canada is a real great example, Christ up there you have to try to outrun the criminals bullet before you are legally able to defend yourself.

 

[JoeB131]

Kinda makes one wonder if all the newly armed citizenry might be making the criminals think twice before committing a criminal act.

No, not really.

Most murders are cases where the murderer knows his victim. The idea you need to arm yourself from some unknown assaliant is silly.

The real problem is the gun industry, having been immunized from legal responsibility, is much like an arms merchant that arms both sides in a war. They fight any attempt to keep guns out of the hands of the insane and criminal, and then sell more guns to the people who are just scared when a criminal or insane person shoots something up.

 

[Circe]

3. Guns sales are up in record numbers in the past few years, while shootings/murders are down.

Well, sounds like people having guns is working to some extent, if killings are going down so much.

It's a two-edged sword. There is no question but that people love killing people, so crazies and terrorists are going to kill more if assault rifles and explosives and so on are easily available. Duh! The easier it is, the more it will happen: that's true of ANYthing, including eating fast food. It's certainly true of the killing of first-graders: the easier it is, the more it happens.

On the other side of the sword, an armed populace ready to defend their homes and themselves is bound to result in criminals not being as willing to mug people and burglarize, because they are a lot more likely to be killed than in, say, Britain, where criminals walk all over everyone and the police don't care or do anything, unless the victimized person tries to defend him or herself, and they they put the victim in prison. I don't want to see that happen here. I want strong self-defense laws, including the Florida ones.

However, the crazies and terrorists are a real epidemic now. It would be so much better if we just had quick capital punishment: just took people like that Cleveland monster to trial next week and executed him the week after. And the same with any of these types, like James Holmes, the Batman shooter. Quick trial and execution would solve so many of the problems this society has now.