With gun violence down, is America arming against an imagined threat?

[Saigon]

It's the same level of "ok" as vehicular homicides.

Does the US experience 10 times as many road deaths per capita than any other western country?

No, it doesn't.

So then it is not the same, is it?

Irrelevant. Much like your opinion on America's right to bear arms.

That's really an open minded approach, and a sure way to solve America's problems.

 

[Saigon]

M14 shooter -

Wikipedia reports 14,748 intentional homicides in the US. In Canada the figure is 554.

List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Arguing about the numbers probably isn't the best way to find a solution, either.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Does the US experience 10 times as many road deaths per capita than any other western country?

No, it doesn't.

So then it is not the same, is it?

Irrelevant. Much like your opinion on America's right to bear arms.

That's really an open minded approach, and a sure way to solve America's problems.

It's better that lying, as you have done.

Spesking of open-mindedness, what relevance do you belive the fact gun-related homicide involves ~0.003% of the guns inthe US has to the issue?

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Your opinion is completely and utterly irrelevant, Saigon.

 

[M14 Shooter]

M14 shooter -
Wikipedia reports 14,748 intentional homicides in the US

I suggest you look at the FBI uniform crime reports.
2011:
Total murders:..........12,664
Total fireams..............8,583
-Handguns.................6,220
-Rifles..........................323
-Shotguns.....................356
Bladed weapons..........1,694
Blunt objects..................496
Personal weapons...........728

In fact, there has NEVER been a year with 14,000 firearm-related homicides.

So, I ask:
Did you lie, or are you simply ignorant of the truth?

 

[TakeAStepBack]

M14 shooter -
Wikipedia reports 14,748 intentional homicides in the US

I suggest you look at the FBI uniform crime reports.
2011:
Total murders:..........12,664
Total fireams..............8,583
-Handguns.................6,220
-Rifles..........................323
-Shotguns.....................356
Bladed weapons..........1,694
Blunt objects..................496
Personal weapons...........728

In fact, there has NEVER been a year with 14,000 firearm-related homicides.

So, I ask:
Did you lie, or are you simply ignorant of the truth?

Ignorant, obviously. Still, completely irrelevant as well.

 

[Saigon]

M14 and Take a Step Back -

I have provided the source and link. If you have a problem with the figure - take it up with the source.

Personally, I think 12,663 homicides compared to 554 in Canada and 41 in the UK is a tragedy and a damning indictment of the attitudes in the US towards civil rights, freedom and human life, but if you think it's a great number, then go with that.

 

[The Rabbi]

Rabbi -

What he's basing this "theory" on is that when people attempt suicide they are more successful using a gun than other methods.
Of course that makes many assumptions. The biggest is that everyone who attempts suicide is intent on completing the act. That is clearly not true, as many people only want attention or whatever. So they choose longer lasting methods in the hopes of getting rescued. Restricting guns wouldn't really change that at all.

Yes, that is true.

However, Australia found that total deaths from sucide went down significantly as the number of guns in society fell.

OK that's two fallacies. First that the number of guns in society (whatever that means) correlates to suicides. We already showed that it doesn.t
Second, that correlation equals causation, which it doesn't.

So even if we assume those fallacies are accurate and not fallacious, how many curable suicide attempts are we talking about? On the other side, how many people will become victims of crimes because they are unarmed? And the trump card is that we have a constitutional right to keep and bear arms. So even if there was a pandemic of people shooting each other randomly for no reason we would still not be able to ban guns.

 

[M14 Shooter]

M14 and Take a Step Back -
I have provided the source and link. If you have a problem with the figure - take it up with the source.

fact: Your source is wrong.

FBI ? Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

Why do you refuse to accept the fact that your source is wrong?
Why do you choose to base your argument on incorrect data?
Given that the rate of firearms used in homicide statistically approaches zero, why do you think the availability of guns in the US is a problem?

 

[TakeAStepBack]

34 million people in Canada - Constitutional Monarch
64 million people in the UK - Constitutional Monarch
314 million people in the USA - Constitutional Republic

 

[Defiant1]

Rabbi -

Ah, so now you DO think posters should back up their claims? Just a few posts ago you said posters shouldn't back up their claims!

Here it is for you:

The risk of dying from a suicide in the home was greater for males in homes with guns than for males without guns in the home (adjusted odds ratio = 10.4, 95% confidence interval: 5.8, 18.9). Persons with guns in the home were also more likely to have died from suicide committed with a firearm than from one committed by using a different method (adjusted odds ratio = 31.1, 95% confidence interval: 19.5, 49.6).

Guns in the Home and Risk of a Violent Death in the Home: Findings from a National Study

A study by the Harvard School of Public Health of all 50 U.S. states reveals a powerful link between rates of firearm ownership and suicides. Based on a survey of American households conducted in 2002, HSPH Assistant Professor of Health Policy and Management Matthew Miller, Research Associate Deborah Azrael, and colleagues at the School’s Injury Control Research Center (ICRC), found that in states where guns were prevalent—as in Wyoming, where 63 percent of households reported owning guns—rates of suicide were higher. The inverse was also true: where gun ownership was less common, suicide rates were also lower.

Harvard School of Public Health » HSPH News » Guns and suicide: A fatal link

Can we consider that suicides, especially one committed with guns, save lives?

 

[The Rabbi]

M14 shooter -

Wikipedia reports 14,748 intentional homicides in the US. In Canada the figure is 554.

List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Arguing about the numbers probably isn't the best way to find a solution, either.

And Mexico is over 25,000, despite having very strict gun control. How'd that work out for you?

 

[Saigon]

Rabbi -

No honest person is going to use Mexico as a valid point of comparison for the US.

It seems that as you predicted, you would respond to facts with diversions!

 

[Saigon]

34 million people in Canada - Constitutional Monarch
64 million people in the UK - Constitutional Monarch
314 million people in the USA - Constitutional Republic

That is why the statistics we use here are largely PER CAPITA, genius.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Rabbi -
No honest person is going to use Mexico as a valid point of comparison for the US.
It seems that as you predicted, you would respond to facts with diversions!

Why do you refuse to accept the fact that your source is wrong?
Why do you choose to base your argument on incorrect data?
Given that the rate of firearms used in homicide statistically approaches zero, why do you think the availability of guns in the US is a problem?

 

[HUGGY]

With gun violence down, is America arming against an imagined threat?

No. People are just savin thier ammo.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Rabbi -

No honest person is going to use Mexico as a valid point of comparison for the US.

It seems that as you predicted, you would respond to facts with diversions!

No honest person would use the UK or Canada as a point of comparison to the USA, but there you are. Doing just that.

 

[The Rabbi]

Rabbi -

No honest person is going to use Mexico as a valid point of comparison for the US.

It seems that as you predicted, you would respond to facts with diversions!

Why is Canada a valid point of comparison but Mexico is not?

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Because the Finland lad is not playing with a full deck.

 

[Spoonman]

Does the US experience 10 times as many road deaths per capita than any other western country?

No, it doesn't.

So then it is not the same, is it?

Irrelevant. Much like your opinion on America's right to bear arms.

That's really an open minded approach, and a sure way to solve America's problems.

america's problems are not with guns. as you can see, as our gun numbers grow, our murder rates drop