With gun violence down, is America arming against an imagined threat?

[The Rabbi]

Jon -

No, it is not up since the introduction of gun control.



UK murder rate has fallen by half since 2003 and every region is safer


Read more: UK Peace Index: Rate of murders and violent crime falling faster than anywhere in Western Europe | Mail Online

Another liberal who cannot read a chart. Your chart clearly shows a rise in gun violence after the measure was introduced, and it is still higher than previously.
Many things could explain the shift, like an aging population.

In any case, Britain is not the U.S. So comparisons are off base.

 

[The Rabbi]

Rabbi -

No honest person is going to use Mexico as a valid point of comparison for the US.

It seems that as you predicted, you would respond to facts with diversions!

No honest person would use the UK or Canada as a point of comparison to the USA, but there you are. Doing just that.

Why on earth not?

Why not compare like with like?

Does Canada have large populations of inner city blacks? Does Canada have large populations of illegal Mexicans?
No and no.
Fail.

 

[ecinicola]

they could be arming themselves because of a revolution coming. And also to protect what they have from these communist in washington.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Rabbi completely nailed it on this thread, and I hope everyone keeps his comments in mind while they read comments like those of Take A Step Back, Jon and Spoonman.

Rabb predicted:

Because when you did back up the claim (and it is obviously true) he would a) demean the source, b) deflect to something unrelated, c) wimp out and never be heard from until he posted the same nonsense elsewhere.

There is no persuading the incomprehending.

and the proof from Randall Flagg -

Yeah, these people literally amaze me. They go on and on, statistic after statistic, arguing with anyone (to include Jesus Christ) to "prove their case. It gets sickening. They HATE GUNS. We get it.

Isn't it interesting that Randall suggests the people presenting facts are stupid - but those ignoring the facts presumably are not!

Says she who ignores the fact that her arguments are based on incorrect information.

 

[healthmyths]

M14 shooter -
Wikipedia reports 14,748 intentional homicides in the US

I suggest you look at the FBI uniform crime reports.
2011:
Total murders:..........12,664
Total fireams..............8,583
-Handguns.................6,220
-Rifles..........................323
-Shotguns.....................356
Bladed weapons..........1,694
Blunt objects..................496
Personal weapons...........728

In fact, there has NEVER been a year with 14,000 firearm-related homicides.

So, I ask:
Did you lie, or are you simply ignorant of the truth?

FACTS have a way of getting in the way of peoples' opinions..

Using the FBI total firearms deaths of 8,583 from a USA population of 310 million compared to Canada's 554 firearm deaths with a population of 34 million would make Canada have nearly 6,000 deaths instead of 554!...

 

[whitehall]

Cause and effect or left wing pipe dreams, take your pick. Logic indicates that if gun violence is way down while gun possession is way up there might be a connection rather than a sinister plot. It should be noted that gun violence is up in areas like Chicago and D.C. where gun possession is restricted.

 

[M14 Shooter]

M14 shooter -
Wikipedia reports 14,748 intentional homicides in the US

I suggest you look at the FBI uniform crime reports.
2011:
Total murders:..........12,664
Total fireams..............8,583
-Handguns.................6,220
-Rifles..........................323
-Shotguns.....................356
Bladed weapons..........1,694
Blunt objects..................496
Personal weapons...........728

In fact, there has NEVER been a year with 14,000 firearm-related homicides.

So, I ask:
Did you lie, or are you simply ignorant of the truth?

FACTS have a way of getting in the way of peoples' opinions..

Using the FBI total firearms deaths of 8,583 from a USA population of 310 million compared to Canada's 554 firearm deaths with a population of 34 million would make Canada have nearly 6,000 deaths instead of 554!...

You make an invalid comparison.
To argue that more guns = more gun deaths, you have to compare the number of guns, not the populations.
0.0031% of guns in the US were involved in homicides.
How many guns in Canada?.

I looked quick - saw a number of 7,180,000 registered guns in Canada
554 gun related homicodes = 0.0077% of guns in canada involved in homicide.

That's 2.48x higher than in the US.

 

[Saigon]

Jon -

No, it is not up since the introduction of gun control.



UK murder rate has fallen by half since 2003 and every region is safer


Read more: UK Peace Index: Rate of murders and violent crime falling faster than anywhere in Western Europe | Mail Online

Another liberal who cannot read a chart. Your chart clearly shows a rise in gun violence after the measure was introduced, and it is still higher than previously.
Many things could explain the shift, like an aging population.

In any case, Britain is not the U.S. So comparisons are off base.

Rabbi -

This is another literacy issue - we were discussing homicides (the bottom line of the chart) not violent crime, which you refer to here.

I hope you will have the cojones to admit that.

Take a Step -

Please do not spam the thread. Learn to scroll past what does not interest you.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Irrelevant.

 

[peach174]

Jon -

No, it is not up since the introduction of gun control.



UK murder rate has fallen by half since 2003 and every region is safer


Read more: UK Peace Index: Rate of murders and violent crime falling faster than anywhere in Western Europe | Mail Online

Another liberal who cannot read a chart. Your chart clearly shows a rise in gun violence after the measure was introduced, and it is still higher than previously.
Many things could explain the shift, like an aging population.

In any case, Britain is not the U.S. So comparisons are off base.

Rabbi -

This is another literacy issue - we were discussing homicides (the bottom line of the chart) not violent crime, which you refer to here.

I hope you will have the cojones to admit that.

You are the one that is not getting it.
Homicide has remained pretty even, with the population having guns or not having guns.
When guns were banned violent crime went way up and the Police had to start carrying guns instead of billy clubs.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Please do not spam the thread. Learn to scroll past what does not interest you.

Translation:
You choose to ignore that which proves you wrong.
But, we knew that.

 

[Saigon]

You are the one that is not getting it.
Homicide has remained pretty even, with the population having guns or not having guns.
When guns were banned violent crime went way up and the Police had to start carrying guns instead of billy clubs.

No, not exactly.


UK murder rate has fallen by half since 2003 and every region is safer.

Rate of murders and violent crime falling faster than anywhere in Western Europe

Violent crime in Britain has fallen by a quarter in the past decade, according to a study.

The UK has experienced a ‘substantial and sustained’ fall in offences ranging from drunken thuggery to murder since 2003, the report suggests.

And official statistics show violent crime is now at its lowest level for 30 years.

Read more: UK Peace Index: Rate of murders and violent crime falling faster than anywhere in Western Europe | Mail Online
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[Katzndogz]

Gun Crime Soars in England Where Guns Are Banned - Katie Pavlich

The Government's latest crime figures were condemned as "truly terrible" by the Tories today as it emerged that gun crime in England and Wales soared by 35% last year.

Criminals used handguns in 46% more offences, Home Office statistics revealed.

Firearms were used in 9,974 recorded crimes in the 12 months to last April, up from 7,362.

It was the fourth consecutive year to see a rise and there were more than 2,200 more gun crimes last year than the previous peak in 1993.

Figures showed the number of crimes involving handguns had more than doubled since the post-Dunblane massacre ban on the weapons, from 2,636 in 1997-1998 to 5,871.

Unadjusted figures showed overall recorded crime in the 12 months to last September rose 9.3%, but the Home Office stressed that new procedures had skewed the figures.

Shadow home secretary Oliver Letwin said: "These figures are truly terrible.

"Despite the street crime initiative, robbery is massively up. So are gun-related crimes, domestic burglary, retail burglary, and drug offenses.

"The only word for this is failure: the Government's response of knee-jerk reactions, gimmicks and initiatives is not working and confused signals on sentences for burglary will not help either.

 

[The Rabbi]

You are the one that is not getting it.
Homicide has remained pretty even, with the population having guns or not having guns.
When guns were banned violent crime went way up and the Police had to start carrying guns instead of billy clubs.

No, not exactly.


UK murder rate has fallen by half since 2003 and every region is safer.

Rate of murders and violent crime falling faster than anywhere in Western Europe

Violent crime in Britain has fallen by a quarter in the past decade, according to a study.

The UK has experienced a ‘substantial and sustained’ fall in offences ranging from drunken thuggery to murder since 2003, the report suggests.

And official statistics show violent crime is now at its lowest level for 30 years.

Read more: UK Peace Index: Rate of murders and violent crime falling faster than anywhere in Western Europe | Mail Online
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Violent crime has fallen in every western country during the same period. The gun laws were irrelevant to that trend.
You keep getting your ass handed to you and then coming back for more. At what point will you recognize that your facts do not support your narrative?

 

[Saigon]

Katz-

Can you explain why your blog uses data which contradicts the official figures?

Can you provide the source of the data?

 

[Saigon]

Rabbi -

Firstly, please admit that you read the chart wrongly, whilst accusing others of doing so. It's just what an honest person would do.

Secondly:

Violent crime has fallen in every western country during the same period.

And yet:

"Rate of murders and violent crime falling faster than anywhere in Western Europe"

The rate of murders in the UK is now significantly lower than in France, for instance.

Thirdly:

The gun laws were irrelevant to that trend.

And yet the UK police have triumphed the success of the laws, and you yourself can see the impact of the laws in the chart provided.

 

[ba1614]

No honest person would use the UK or Canada as a point of comparison to the USA, but there you are. Doing just that.

Why on earth not?

Why not compare like with like?

Does Canada have large populations of inner city blacks? Does Canada have large populations of illegal Mexicans?
No and no.
Fail.

They got stuck with the frenchmen.

 

[Saigon]

Does Canada have large populations of inner city blacks? Does Canada have large populations of illegal Mexicans?

Germany, France and the UK all have "inner city blacks", yes.

Shall we compare those stats?

Deaths by guns, per capita:

USA 10.20

UK 0.25

Germany 1.05

France 3.00

List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Note that the UK murder rate is now much lower than other EU countries, probably due to the gun laws.

 

[The Rabbi]

Rabbi -

Firstly, please admit that you read the chart wrongly, whilst accusing others of doing so. It's just what an honest person would do.

Secondly:

Violent crime has fallen in every western country during the same period.

And yet:

"Rate of murders and violent crime falling faster than anywhere in Western Europe"

Thirdly:

The gun laws were irrelevant to that trend.

And yet the UK police have triumphed the success of the laws, and you yourself can see the impact of the laws in the chart provided.

Why dont you admit the facts and the chart do not support what you say? That would be honest. Not that you've ever been honest here before.
Crime fell in the US as well, faster in those states that legalized carry. Again gun laws are irrelevant to that trend.

 

[The Rabbi]

Does Canada have large populations of inner city blacks? Does Canada have large populations of illegal Mexicans?

Germany, France and the UK all have "inner city blacks", yes.

Shall we compare those stats?

Deaths by guns, per capita:

USA 10.20

UK 0.25

Germany 1.05

France 3.00

List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Note that the UK murder rate is now much lower than other EU countries, probably due to the gun laws.

No, actually Germany and France do not have large populations of inner city American blacks. They might have large populations of inner city Muslims but that is not the same thing.
SO you are either terribly misinformed or lying.