With gun violence down, is America arming against an imagined threat?

[Luddly Neddite]

they could be arming themselves because of a revolution coming. And also to protect what they have from these communist in washington.

I LOVE this one. Really.

Never mind that the cry of "commies in Washington" is nothing short of just plain stupid. Its just so fucking funny that a very small number of nutters really believe they can take on the US military. That is so far beyond mere DUMB, its just mind boggling.

And then there's the real irony - Nitwits stockpiling guns to protect themselves from the government that is Constitutionally obligated to let them have guns.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Jon -

Please look at the graph. The gun control laws were passed in 2003, and are marked in pink.

Notice that the rate of murders now is lower than in 2003.

Thus, the rate of murders is now lower than it was when laws were passed.

I hope that is now clear for you.

so? we lifted our assault weapons ban and our rates have dropped just as quickly while we have nearly doubled the ammount of guns we have. how does your chart prove gun control works?

Indeed - in the 7 years after the AWB expired, the number of murders committed with said 'assault weapons' went down.

 

[Spoonman]

yea like 6. but they don't have mexcians

That is not an argument, spoon, that is just racism.

no. its a fact. you don't have nearly the amount of blacks and mexicans in european cities.

 

[Spoonman]

they could be arming themselves because of a revolution coming. And also to protect what they have from these communist in washington.

I LOVE this one. Really.

Never mind that the cry of "commies in Washington" is nothing short of just plain stupid. Its just so fucking funny that a very small number of nutters really believe they can take on the US military. That is so far beyond mere DUMB, its just mind boggling.

And then there's the real irony - Nitwits stockpiling guns to protect themselves from the government that is Constitutionally obligated to let them have guns.

is it dumb? after all, that was madisons intent when he wrote the 2nd amendment. he envisioned a population that could keep the federal government in check. over the years the federal government has gradually been taking that ability away

 

[Saigon]

wrong, he made that post because saigon claimed that nations with more guns had a higher rate of suicide. the UK, Japan, China, countries with no guns have higher suicide rates then the USA. His point was totally valid

Um...no, I did not claim that and would not claim that.

What I claimed was that a higher number of successful suicides involve a gun.

Honestly, the standards of literacy on this thread are a very significant factor. Anyone who thinks US schools are doing well needs to read through this thread.

 

[Saigon]

no. its a fact. you don't have nearly the amount of blacks and mexicans in european cities.

Stats? Link?

Because the stats I have here show that cities like Rotterdam, Birmingham and Vienna have higher rates of immigrants than most US cities.

You made the claim - let's see your stats first.

btw. Do you know what a capital letter is? Use them!

 

[Uncensored2008]

There IS a whacko with an assault weapon problem. That's why a huge majority of the country wants background checks...

Yeah, you should not be allowed near guns, sharp objects, or children - wanco.

But that has nothing to do with normal people.

 

[Uncensored2008]

[
And yet the rate of successful suicides higher with guns than with any other form of suicide?

Bullshit.

Suicide is just about 3 times the level per 100,000 in Japan as in the USA. Yet Japan has draconian anti-gun laws.

Thus, objects enable violence, don't they?

Nope - epic fail on your part.

 

[rightwinger]

With gun violence down, is America arming against an imagined threat?

With gun violence down, is America arming against an imagined threat?
A Pew study released Tuesday finds that Americans think gun violence has escalated when in reality it's way down from two decades ago. The violence has dropped, meanwhile, even as gun ownership has increased.


Mass shootings, frantic gun-buying, and more Americans legally carrying guns on the street all point to a country fighting a gun violence epidemic, right?

Not necessarily.

As part of a broader trend of declining crime, gun violence in America – while still high relative to other Western countries – has dropped by 49 percent from 1993 to 2011, while nonfatal gun crimes dropped by 69 percent, according to the US Justice Department.

Interesting stat.....but what does it mean?

Does it mean we are safer?
Does it mean guns are not a problem in this country?

To me it means the chosen start point, 1993, represents the worst case of American gun violence. In 1993 we were in the middle of the crack wars as gangs fought over the influx of crack dollars. 1993 was in an era when America had the equivalent of the Mexican Drug Cartel wars.

Since 1993, Crack has had a decreasing influence on crime and our gun deaths dropped accordingly

Does it mean we have won? No
Does it mean we no longer have problems with gun violence? No it doesn't

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crack_epidemic_(United_States)

 

[TakeAStepBack]

With gun violence down, is America arming against an imagined threat?

With gun violence down, is America arming against an imagined threat?
A Pew study released Tuesday finds that Americans think gun violence has escalated when in reality it's way down from two decades ago. The violence has dropped, meanwhile, even as gun ownership has increased.


Mass shootings, frantic gun-buying, and more Americans legally carrying guns on the street all point to a country fighting a gun violence epidemic, right?

Not necessarily.

As part of a broader trend of declining crime, gun violence in America – while still high relative to other Western countries – has dropped by 49 percent from 1993 to 2011, while nonfatal gun crimes dropped by 69 percent, according to the US Justice Department.

Interesting stat.....but what does it mean?

Does it mean we are safer?Does it mean guns are not a problem in this country?

To me it means the chosen start point, 1993, represents the worst case of American gun violence. In 1993 we were in the middle of the crack wars as gangs fought over the influx of crack dollars. 1993 was in an era when America had the equivalent of the Mexican Drug Cartel wars.

Since 1993, Crack has had a decreasing influence on crime and our gun deaths dropped accordingly

Does it mean we have won? No
Does it mean we no longer have problems with gun violence? No it doesn't

Safer?

You turds are always ready to give up liberties for the sake of some perceived safety.

 

[Spoonman]

With gun violence down, is America arming against an imagined threat?

With gun violence down, is America arming against an imagined threat?
A Pew study released Tuesday finds that Americans think gun violence has escalated when in reality it's way down from two decades ago. The violence has dropped, meanwhile, even as gun ownership has increased.


Mass shootings, frantic gun-buying, and more Americans legally carrying guns on the street all point to a country fighting a gun violence epidemic, right?

Not necessarily.

As part of a broader trend of declining crime, gun violence in America – while still high relative to other Western countries – has dropped by 49 percent from 1993 to 2011, while nonfatal gun crimes dropped by 69 percent, according to the US Justice Department.

Interesting stat.....but what does it mean?

Does it mean we are safer?
Does it mean guns are not a problem in this country?

To me it means the chosen start point, 1993, represents the worst case of American gun violence. In 1993 we were in the middle of the crack wars as gangs fought over the influx of crack dollars. 1993 was in an era when America had the equivalent of the Mexican Drug Cartel wars.

Since 1993, Crack has had a decreasing influence on crime and our gun deaths dropped accordingly

Does it mean we have won? No
Does it mean we no longer have problems with gun violence? No it doesn't

so you are saying if you reduce crime you have a lower rate of murders. what a concept. it has nothing to do with guns but everything to do with dealing with the real issues. see rightwinger, if you try hard enough, even you can get it right

 

[Saigon]

Uncensored -

Suicide is just about 3 times the level per 100,000 in Japan as in the USA. Yet Japan has draconian anti-gun laws.

And again - it's purely and simply a matter of literacy.

Suicides are more successful when a gun is used.

That does NOT necessarily mean a high suicide rate.

It means a higher rate of successful suicides when guns are used, compared with unsuccesful suicides when other metods are used.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

they could be arming themselves because of a revolution coming. And also to protect what they have from these communist in washington.

I LOVE this one. Really.

Never mind that the cry of "commies in Washington" is nothing short of just plain stupid. Its just so fucking funny that a very small number of nutters really believe they can take on the US military. That is so far beyond mere DUMB, its just mind boggling.

And then there's the real irony - Nitwits stockpiling guns to protect themselves from the government that is Constitutionally obligated to let them have guns.

is it dumb? after all, that was madisons intent when he wrote the 2nd amendment. he envisioned a population that could keep the federal government in check. over the years the federal government has gradually been taking that ability away

The US military is bigger than the next 13 COMBINED. The nutters cannot buy weapons that would be effective against what the US military has.

Yes, its dumb that people are falling for the tripe put out by gun makers. People who cannot afford to support their families are falling into a ludicrous lockstep designed to separate them from their money.

Not to mention that not one aspect of any gun bill proposed would take from them the right to buy their guns.

In a related story, Pfizer just lowered the price of Viagra. If they could just get it up, maybe they wouldn't be so dependent on their little pop guns.

 

[rightwinger]

With gun violence down, is America arming against an imagined threat?

With gun violence down, is America arming against an imagined threat?
A Pew study released Tuesday finds that Americans think gun violence has escalated when in reality it's way down from two decades ago. The violence has dropped, meanwhile, even as gun ownership has increased.


Mass shootings, frantic gun-buying, and more Americans legally carrying guns on the street all point to a country fighting a gun violence epidemic, right?

Not necessarily.

As part of a broader trend of declining crime, gun violence in America – while still high relative to other Western countries – has dropped by 49 percent from 1993 to 2011, while nonfatal gun crimes dropped by 69 percent, according to the US Justice Department.

Interesting stat.....but what does it mean?

Does it mean we are safer?
Does it mean guns are not a problem in this country?

To me it means the chosen start point, 1993, represents the worst case of American gun violence. In 1993 we were in the middle of the crack wars as gangs fought over the influx of crack dollars. 1993 was in an era when America had the equivalent of the Mexican Drug Cartel wars.

Since 1993, Crack has had a decreasing influence on crime and our gun deaths dropped accordingly

Does it mean we have won? No
Does it mean we no longer have problems with gun violence? No it doesn't

so you are saying if you reduce crime you have a lower rate of murders. what a concept. it has nothing to do with guns but everything to do with dealing with the real issues. see rightwinger, if you try hard enough, even you can get it right

Well, lets discuss the real issues of gun violence in this country

It is not bad guys shooting at eachother. It is people shooting people they know. 60% of shooting victims know their assailant.
It is about domestic violence. Shooting spouses and loved ones
It is about suicide

All of these are exacerbated by a ready access to guns in our homes

 

[Spoonman]

no. its a fact. you don't have nearly the amount of blacks and mexicans in european cities.

Stats? Link?

Because the stats I have here show that cities like Rotterdam, Birmingham and Vienna have higher rates of immigrants than most US cities.

You made the claim - let's see your stats first.

btw. Do you know what a capital letter is? Use them!

yea, in austria they have a high percentage of croats, slovenians, hungarians, czechs, turks. mexicans and blacks, not so much. rotterdam is pretty diverse, i guess thats why it always makes it to the top of the list of europes most dangerous cities

 

[Spoonman]

I LOVE this one. Really.

Never mind that the cry of "commies in Washington" is nothing short of just plain stupid. Its just so fucking funny that a very small number of nutters really believe they can take on the US military. That is so far beyond mere DUMB, its just mind boggling.

And then there's the real irony - Nitwits stockpiling guns to protect themselves from the government that is Constitutionally obligated to let them have guns.

is it dumb? after all, that was madisons intent when he wrote the 2nd amendment. he envisioned a population that could keep the federal government in check. over the years the federal government has gradually been taking that ability away

The US military is bigger than the next 13 COMBINED. The nutters cannot buy weapons that would be effective against what the US military has.

Yes, its dumb that people are falling for the tripe put out by gun makers. People who cannot afford to support their families are falling into a ludicrous lockstep designed to separate them from their money.

Not to mention that not one aspect of any gun bill proposed would take from them the right to buy their guns.

In a related story, Pfizer just lowered the price of Viagra. If they could just get it up, maybe they wouldn't be so dependent on their little pop guns.

thanks for proving my point. again, this was never the intent of the framers

 

[M14 Shooter]

no. its a fact. you don't have nearly the amount of blacks and mexicans in european cities.

Stats? Link?

Because the stats I have here show that cities like Rotterdam, Birmingham and Vienna have higher rates of immigrants than most US cities.

You made the claim - let's see your stats first.

btw. Do you know what a capital letter is? Use them!

yea, in austria they have a high percentage of croats, slovenians, hungarians, czechs, turks. mexicans and blacks, not so much. rotterdam is pretty diverse, i guess thats why it always makes it to the top of the list of europes most dangerous cities

You said:

no. its a fact. you don't have nearly the amount of blacks and mexicans in european cities.

She responded:

Because the stats I have here show that cities like Rotterdam, Birmingham and Vienna have higher rates of immigrants than most US cities.

See how her response doesn't address your statement?
Sure sign that she knows you have a point she cannot refute.

 

[Erand7899]

objects can't be vilolent.

And yet the rate of successful suicides higher with guns than with any other form of suicide?

Thus, objects enable violence, don't they?

No more than high buildings and bridges enable jumpers. And yes, the rate of successful suicides is higher with handguns. It is much more certain, and much less painful than alternative methods, and that is why it is a preferred method for those who wish to off themselves.

 

[Circe]

Uncensored -

Suicide is just about 3 times the level per 100,000 in Japan as in the USA. Yet Japan has draconian anti-gun laws.

And again - it's purely and simply a matter of literacy.

Suicides are more successful when a gun is used.

That does NOT necessarily mean a high suicide rate.

It means a higher rate of successful suicides when guns are used, compared with unsuccesful suicides when other metods are used.

Suicide doesn't matter. It isn't relevant to the issue at hand, which is basically self-defense with a little hope of revolution thrown in.

If somebody has so little vigor they want to kill themselves, hey, use whatever comes to hand. Nobody cares.

What we care about is somebody shooting at US. Or at our children!

 

[Uncensored2008]

And again - it's purely and simply a matter of literacy.

Suicides are more successful when a gun is used.

Demonstrably false.

Though you seek to recite talking points, you fail on an epic level by the fact that a greater number of suicides are successful when a gun is NOT used.

The implement has no impact on the decision to kill oneself. You have ignorantly tried to accrue motive to an inanimate object.

That does NOT necessarily mean a high suicide rate.

It means a higher rate of successful suicides when guns are used, compared with unsuccesful suicides when other metods are used.

Again, utterly false. A greater rate of successful suicide is found in a nation where guns are restricted.