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They dont even have to be screaming and crying. If a woman doesnt "feel" right thats enough to throw ice water on the party.Well, this is not the ME, and women should be able to wear short skirts and short shorts and not worry about some man wanting to rape her because of it. Rape is a thought of a diseased mind. Most people would NOT want to have sex with someone who is an unwilling partner, who is screaming and crying for them to stop, etc. It is a crime and a very serious one. AND, as has been pointed out, women who HAVE been wearing conservative type clothing have been raped too. I think it has little to do with clothing and more to do with opportunity, like being at the wrong place at the wrong time no matter WHAT you are wearing.
Obviously not. That would be like saying that walking around with $100s in my hand excuses muggers. Its a nonsense argument. Instead, I'm recognizing that you can attract the attention of people who may not have your best interests at heart. And keeping a lower profile could be helpful in avoiding unwanted attention.
Just common sense.
women should not dress attractively lest a shark thinks they've been invited to rape?
women should wear full covering in public since men have such little control of themselves...
sounds familiar
Its a silly argument. If we're in a dark parking garage or in a bad neighbhoord, you walk with a purpose and keep your purse tucked close. Are you 'excusing muggers' because they have 'such little control of themselves'? Of course not. You're taking common sense precautions to help protect yourself.
When you park your car do you leave your wallet on the dashboard and the windows rolled down? Are you excusing thieves because they have 'such little control over themselves'? Again, no. You're taking basic precautions that can help dramatically reduce bad outcomes.
From car alarms to locking our doors at night to basic car maintenance to calling in to let people know where you are, basic precautions are used daily. But in this instance, suddenly diog the exact same thing is 'excusing' someone or some crime?
Of course not. Its the same basic precaution you'd take in any other context. And it no more excuses the behavior of the people you're protecting yourself against than locking your front door 'excuses' burglars.
you need to separate what advice we may give to our daughters, from what is just plain wrong no matter what...
They dont even have to be screaming and crying. If a woman doesnt "feel" right thats enough to throw ice water on the party.Well, this is not the ME, and women should be able to wear short skirts and short shorts and not worry about some man wanting to rape her because of it. Rape is a thought of a diseased mind. Most people would NOT want to have sex with someone who is an unwilling partner, who is screaming and crying for them to stop, etc. It is a crime and a very serious one. AND, as has been pointed out, women who HAVE been wearing conservative type clothing have been raped too. I think it has little to do with clothing and more to do with opportunity, like being at the wrong place at the wrong time no matter WHAT you are wearing.
That's not my point though. My point is that these people are sick and some of them "get off" on that. THAT is how you know it is much more of an issue than just "sexual attraction" or the girl is wearing skimpy clothing.
Not even close. Both are rape, and both are to be punished as severely as the law allows. I'm discussing the pathologies of the people perpetrating them, not saying roofie guy should get a pass because he is roofie guy. Roofie guy is probably worse from a law enforcement perspective because his method leaves the victim often without memory of what actually happened.
Again, you have to separate a frank discussion or risk factors and mitigation of those risks, vs. any desire to see a woman ignoring said risk factors being held against her. (for the record, I don't see any of these risk factors, dress, travel mode, location as grounds for mitigation of the crime. Punish the bastards no matter what, and do it hard.
They dont even have to be screaming and crying. If a woman doesnt "feel" right thats enough to throw ice water on the party.Well, this is not the ME, and women should be able to wear short skirts and short shorts and not worry about some man wanting to rape her because of it. Rape is a thought of a diseased mind. Most people would NOT want to have sex with someone who is an unwilling partner, who is screaming and crying for them to stop, etc. It is a crime and a very serious one. AND, as has been pointed out, women who HAVE been wearing conservative type clothing have been raped too. I think it has little to do with clothing and more to do with opportunity, like being at the wrong place at the wrong time no matter WHAT you are wearing.
That's not my point though. My point is that these people are sick and some of them "get off" on that. THAT is how you know it is much more of an issue than just "sexual attraction" or the girl is wearing skimpy clothing.
And my point is that wearing skimpy clothing can attract the attention of these sick people.
Who told you this?They dont even have to be screaming and crying. If a woman doesnt "feel" right thats enough to throw ice water on the party.Well, this is not the ME, and women should be able to wear short skirts and short shorts and not worry about some man wanting to rape her because of it. Rape is a thought of a diseased mind. Most people would NOT want to have sex with someone who is an unwilling partner, who is screaming and crying for them to stop, etc. It is a crime and a very serious one. AND, as has been pointed out, women who HAVE been wearing conservative type clothing have been raped too. I think it has little to do with clothing and more to do with opportunity, like being at the wrong place at the wrong time no matter WHAT you are wearing.
That's not my point though. My point is that these people are sick and some of them "get off" on that. THAT is how you know it is much more of an issue than just "sexual attraction" or the girl is wearing skimpy clothing.
And my point is that wearing skimpy clothing can attract the attention of these sick people.
The sad thing is that you will teach people that a woman can prevent rape by modifying her appearance while history shows that that is not the case.You seem to spend a great deal of effort putting words in my mouth.Were we too unPC for you hon? You seem to think a rapist is going to rape based on appearance, while in reality they are going to rape because they are rapists.I think this conversation has become very binary. There is rape -- which, as I understand it, is essentially as it is portrayed by those here who are against what Hynde said -- and then there is the relatively long list of bad stuff that can happen when a guy gets too drunk and excited and horny -- some of which, by the way, could be construed as rape by some.There's a difference between hitting on and putting a knife to someone's neck. Rapists are very seldom drunk. I've never seen a drunk rapist. I've seen drunk women claim they've been raped. They've actually just gotten so drunk that neither man or woman was sober enough to realize that yep, that it, they were having sex. Rapists don't get drunk. Drinking takes away from the enjoyment of the experience. The experience isn't enjoyed through genitalia, it's enjoyed through the eyes. The fear. That's what a rapist wants to see, the fear.
I don't want either happening to one of my daughters or someone else's, and if there is something that can be done (or not done) to mitigate the potential of such an event I'm wide open to it.
That said, now that it's been inferred that I'm an imminent rapist who has his daughters chained to the wall, I'm not quite as interested in this thread. I'm not very good at dealing with nasty zealots.
.
That's okay sweetie, I know how you folks are.
.
He has not said that attire will "prevent" rape, that is just your warped interpretation.
What he and others have been saying, is that dressing provocatively can draw the kind of attention you may not want. Not guaranteed to get attention, but it can.
WHY IS THIS SO FUCKING HARD FOR YOU GUYS ?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Who told you this?They dont even have to be screaming and crying. If a woman doesnt "feel" right thats enough to throw ice water on the party.Well, this is not the ME, and women should be able to wear short skirts and short shorts and not worry about some man wanting to rape her because of it. Rape is a thought of a diseased mind. Most people would NOT want to have sex with someone who is an unwilling partner, who is screaming and crying for them to stop, etc. It is a crime and a very serious one. AND, as has been pointed out, women who HAVE been wearing conservative type clothing have been raped too. I think it has little to do with clothing and more to do with opportunity, like being at the wrong place at the wrong time no matter WHAT you are wearing.
That's not my point though. My point is that these people are sick and some of them "get off" on that. THAT is how you know it is much more of an issue than just "sexual attraction" or the girl is wearing skimpy clothing.
And my point is that wearing skimpy clothing can attract the attention of these sick people.
Its not about excusing anything. Its about your insistance that it will attract rapists. It defies logic and common sense. Your logic is "normal men are attracted to scantily dressed women therefore rapists are too" That makes no sense.The sad thing is that you will teach people that a woman can prevent rape by modifying her appearance while history shows that that is not the case.You seem to spend a great deal of effort putting words in my mouth.Were we too unPC for you hon? You seem to think a rapist is going to rape based on appearance, while in reality they are going to rape because they are rapists.I think this conversation has become very binary. There is rape -- which, as I understand it, is essentially as it is portrayed by those here who are against what Hynde said -- and then there is the relatively long list of bad stuff that can happen when a guy gets too drunk and excited and horny -- some of which, by the way, could be construed as rape by some.
I don't want either happening to one of my daughters or someone else's, and if there is something that can be done (or not done) to mitigate the potential of such an event I'm wide open to it.
That said, now that it's been inferred that I'm an imminent rapist who has his daughters chained to the wall, I'm not quite as interested in this thread. I'm not very good at dealing with nasty zealots.
.
That's okay sweetie, I know how you folks are.
.
He has not said that attire will "prevent" rape, that is just your warped interpretation.
What he and others have been saying, is that dressing provocatively can draw the kind of attention you may not want. Not guaranteed to get attention, but it can.
WHY IS THIS SO FUCKING HARD FOR YOU GUYS ?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There is something about this topic that invites people to abandon common sense and the simple application of caution they would recognition in any other context. And only in the instance of rape prevention have some laughably claimed that taking precautions is 'excusing' lawbreakers.
Oddly, no one insists you're 'excusing burglars' if you lock your doors at night. Or 'excusing muggers' if you look over your shoulder in a dark alley.
Rapists that rape nuns, women in the middle east covered from head to toe, and old women.Who told you this?They dont even have to be screaming and crying. If a woman doesnt "feel" right thats enough to throw ice water on the party.Well, this is not the ME, and women should be able to wear short skirts and short shorts and not worry about some man wanting to rape her because of it. Rape is a thought of a diseased mind. Most people would NOT want to have sex with someone who is an unwilling partner, who is screaming and crying for them to stop, etc. It is a crime and a very serious one. AND, as has been pointed out, women who HAVE been wearing conservative type clothing have been raped too. I think it has little to do with clothing and more to do with opportunity, like being at the wrong place at the wrong time no matter WHAT you are wearing.
That's not my point though. My point is that these people are sick and some of them "get off" on that. THAT is how you know it is much more of an issue than just "sexual attraction" or the girl is wearing skimpy clothing.
And my point is that wearing skimpy clothing can attract the attention of these sick people.
Who indicated otherwise?
Its not about excusing anything. Its about your insistance that it will attract rapists. It defies logic and common sense. Your logic is "normal men are attracted to scantily dressed women therefore rapists are too" That makes no sense.The sad thing is that you will teach people that a woman can prevent rape by modifying her appearance while history shows that that is not the case.You seem to spend a great deal of effort putting words in my mouth.Were we too unPC for you hon? You seem to think a rapist is going to rape based on appearance, while in reality they are going to rape because they are rapists.
That's okay sweetie, I know how you folks are.
.
He has not said that attire will "prevent" rape, that is just your warped interpretation.
What he and others have been saying, is that dressing provocatively can draw the kind of attention you may not want. Not guaranteed to get attention, but it can.
WHY IS THIS SO FUCKING HARD FOR YOU GUYS ?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There is something about this topic that invites people to abandon common sense and the simple application of caution they would recognition in any other context. And only in the instance of rape prevention have some laughably claimed that taking precautions is 'excusing' lawbreakers.
Oddly, no one insists you're 'excusing burglars' if you lock your doors at night. Or 'excusing muggers' if you look over your shoulder in a dark alley.
Its weird how people think clothing has anything to do with rape.Rape is not about having sex. Rape is about having total power over a woman. Power to abuse, invade, violate, overcome, humiliate, and control that woman. Clothing has nothing to do with it.
Rape is not about having sex. Rape is about having total power over a woman. Power to abuse, invade, violate, overcome, humiliate, and control that woman. Clothing has nothing to do with it.
I've dealt with predators all my life. Trust me. You can be wearing a full body camo suit and attract their attention in the woods. They are attracted to behavior not what you are wearing.Its not about excusing anything. Its about your insistance that it will attract rapists. It defies logic and common sense. Your logic is "normal men are attracted to scantily dressed women therefore rapists are too" That makes no sense.The sad thing is that you will teach people that a woman can prevent rape by modifying her appearance while history shows that that is not the case.You seem to spend a great deal of effort putting words in my mouth.
That's okay sweetie, I know how you folks are.
.
He has not said that attire will "prevent" rape, that is just your warped interpretation.
What he and others have been saying, is that dressing provocatively can draw the kind of attention you may not want. Not guaranteed to get attention, but it can.
WHY IS THIS SO FUCKING HARD FOR YOU GUYS ?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There is something about this topic that invites people to abandon common sense and the simple application of caution they would recognition in any other context. And only in the instance of rape prevention have some laughably claimed that taking precautions is 'excusing' lawbreakers.
Oddly, no one insists you're 'excusing burglars' if you lock your doors at night. Or 'excusing muggers' if you look over your shoulder in a dark alley.
Oh, its quite rational and makes perfect sense.. You yourself have recognize that sexual attraction can be a motivation for a rapist. You merely indicated its not a primary motivation, which may well be true. Even as a secondary or tetriary motivation, provocative clothing makes one more likely to draw a rapist's attention.
This isn't particularly complicated or controversial.
But as I said, there's something about this topic that just shuts down parts of some people's brains and gets them thinking in useless binary that they'd scoff at in any other context.
Rape is not about having sex. Rape is about having total power over a woman. Power to abuse, invade, violate, overcome, humiliate, and control that woman. Clothing has nothing to do with it.
So there's one definition, one motivation, one purpose, regardless of the person, place, motivation or context?
I call bullshit. This issue is far more complex than the bumperstick slogan you're apeing.
Its weird how people think clothing has anything to do with rape.Rape is not about having sex. Rape is about having total power over a woman. Power to abuse, invade, violate, overcome, humiliate, and control that woman. Clothing has nothing to do with it.
The sad thing is that you will teach people that a woman can prevent rape by modifying her appearance while history shows that that is not the case.You seem to spend a great deal of effort putting words in my mouth.Were we too unPC for you hon? You seem to think a rapist is going to rape based on appearance, while in reality they are going to rape because they are rapists.I think this conversation has become very binary. There is rape -- which, as I understand it, is essentially as it is portrayed by those here who are against what Hynde said -- and then there is the relatively long list of bad stuff that can happen when a guy gets too drunk and excited and horny -- some of which, by the way, could be construed as rape by some.
I don't want either happening to one of my daughters or someone else's, and if there is something that can be done (or not done) to mitigate the potential of such an event I'm wide open to it.
That said, now that it's been inferred that I'm an imminent rapist who has his daughters chained to the wall, I'm not quite as interested in this thread. I'm not very good at dealing with nasty zealots.
.
That's okay sweetie, I know how you folks are.
.
He has not said that attire will "prevent" rape, that is just your warped interpretation.
What he and others have been saying, is that dressing provocatively can draw the kind of attention you may not want. Not guaranteed to get attention, but it can.
WHY IS THIS SO FUCKING HARD FOR YOU GUYS ?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There is something about this topic that invites people to abandon common sense and the simple application of caution they would recognition in any other context. And only in the instance of rape prevention have some laughably claimed that taking precautions is 'excusing' lawbreakers.
Oddly, no one insists you're 'excusing burglars' if you lock your doors at night. Or 'excusing muggers' if you look over your shoulder in a dark alley.
I've dealt with predators all my life. Trust me. You can be wearing a full body camo suit and attract their attention in the woods. They are attracted to behavior not what you are wearing.
Again I didnt say it played no role. However, sex is just a tool to achieve power and control. The aim is not to have sex. Its to exercise power. Pretending its about sex is like saying people eat ice cream so they can get ice cream stains on their shirts. Can a person get some stains? Yes. However, thats not why they eat the ice cream.Its weird how people think clothing has anything to do with rape.Rape is not about having sex. Rape is about having total power over a woman. Power to abuse, invade, violate, overcome, humiliate, and control that woman. Clothing has nothing to do with it.
Hoiw is that weird? Remember, 1 in 5 rape victims are between the ages of 18 and 21. While women over the age of 50 over the age of 50 make up less than 3% of rape victims.
Its ludicrous to conclude the sexual attraction plays no role in rape. It defines reason. And requires elaborate, baseless narratives to explain away overwhelming evidence that supports the idea of a sexual component in rape.
Remember your 'out and about' excuse for why the average rape victim's age is the lowest of any major violent crime? Occam's Razor is a useful tool here.
