World Trade Center probably could not have been destroyed by planes

[MisterBeale]

My guess is you have no idea that the Leo Wanta scandal is the largest scandal in US history.

Unfortunately, I think 240 billion dollars is a pretty large underestimate of the amounts we're talking about. Reliable updates about the scandal largely disappear after Story was assassinated. But the amounts we're talking about exceed four trillion, some put it at over 25 trillion. Is it any wonder the world economy is a basket case?

As far as being a "stupid git?"

Who's the "stupid git?"
Soviet ruble - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Only a limited set of products could be freely bought, thus the ruble had a role similar to trading stamps or food stamps. The currency was not internationally exchangeable and its export was illegal.

Thanks. I love it when you idiots post proof of my claim.
Stupid git.

I'll agree with you, this is true for the common lay people.

However, this is NOT TRUE FOR GOVERNMENTS.

How do you think the Soviets bought commodities on the world market? Seriously.


Why do you think wiki listed a conversion table?

How do you think the Soviets bought commodities on the world market?

They used dollars or marks or francs or pounds.

Why do you think wiki listed a conversion table?

Because that's what the Commies said the rubles were worth. Even though they weren't convertible.

Your argument doesn't hold any water, sorry.

Why would the commies say their rubles were worth "X" amount if they never traded them?

Your argument doesn't hold any water, sorry.

What argument? Rubles were not convertible in the USSR.
That's a fact.

Why would the commies say their rubles were worth "X" amount if they never traded them?

If they were tradable, why would the Commies have to tell you what they were worth, you could just post a market chart. Like you could with dollars vs YEN, GBP, DM, SFC, FFC, any tradable currency.

They did it so they could brag about how large their GDP was, in other words, so they could lie.

Like I stated earlier when discussing this topic with another poster, this has to do with the Wanta scandal.

A little research reveals those "exchange rates" listed in wiki are not, "Soviet lies," but are actually import/export ratios.

The Soviet Union tried to be mostly self-reliant. As we can see from those ratios, it became less and less so as their government became larger, more cumbersome and corrupt. Sort of like ours is becoming, eh?

Foreign Economic Reports

 

[LA RAM FAN]

The titanic was an inside job too. Take a piece of ice. Hit it with a metal hammer. What breaks. The ice? Or the Hammer? The Titanic was made of steel...it should have broken the ice the same way.....

Easy
Peasy
Japanesee

. . . And to this day, the powerful men that did not want the Federal Reserve, the ones that could have prevented the booms and the busts, the ones that could have prevented the bubbles and the currency wars, the dollar devaluation and all the endless senseless wars in the name of the global banking cabal, went down on that ship.

Now, tax day is the same day that the ship went down.

Remember that next time you have to file your tax forms.

"Necessary to their plans, the Federal Reserve did have some opposition; those who saw what the future would become if banking was outside of the government’s hands, the rates set by a private company such as the Fed. All the wealthy and powerful men the Jesuits wanted to get rid of were invited to take the cruise. Three of the richest and most important of these were Benjamin Guggenheim, Isador Strauss, the head of Macy’s Department Stores, and John Jacob Astor, probably the wealthiest man in the world. Their total wealth, at that time, using dollar values of their day was more than 500 million dollars. Today that amount of money would be worth nearly eleven billion dollars. These three men were coaxed and encouraged to board the floating palace. They had to be destroyed because the Jesuits knew they would use their wealth and influence to oppose a Federal Reserve Bank as well as the various wars that were being planned.


It can also be mentioned that J.P. Morgan, the individual contracted to build the Titanic was scheduled to be on the maiden voyage, but canceled.


Supporters of the idea that the Titanic shipwreck was orchestrated carefully, a Jesuit tempore co-adjutor was picked to captain the ship, a man that would do anything for the order and God’s will; Captain Edward Smith. Quite possibly the most experienced captain of the time, Smith had navigated the waters of the Atlantic for 26 years, a master of the icy waters that the Titanic would be sailing. He was a Jesuit and worked for J.P. Morgan. As National Geographic stated in their 1986 documentary entitilted ‘The Secrets of the Titanic,’ “Anyone could be a Jesuit and their identity not be known.”"
Titanic Conspiracy and The Jesuits - RMS Titanic Article

The only time reality is stranger than fiction is when the minds of men are acting and reacting to make it so.
Insane Coincidences – The “Titanic” Disaster Story

5 Titanic Coincidences That Prove Reality is Stranger than Fiction

I find it unbelievable how malleable the minds of people are today. The government schools have made them so willing to accept what ever paradigm the establishment media cartels will whore out to them.

I suppose that is easier than the horror of facing the truth. That they have done this to us before is a good predictor that folks will love falling for the drama again. I'm sure when they aren't paying attention, or are bored, or aren't willing to do the elites bidding, they will sell us more drama. Just look at San Bernardino or Paris.



No one is saying the Titanic didn't sink or that it wasn't an Iceberg.

Don't be so simple minded. Get off your knees and stop accepting the narratives you are told w/o question.

I thought it was pretty obvious that what I wrote was in gest. Sorry you were not developed enough to realize it.

There was no conspiracy involved in the Titanic any more than there was one with the 9/11 attacks. The looney birds that sponsor such a fantasy have the same IQ as pea soup and any investigation of the subject matter would return any sober observer to the same conclusion.

Just a few pages back one of them was saying that there were no planes involved. It doesn't get any more batshit crazy than that.

Your case and your position is not made any stronger by your ad hominem. Folks like you say, "nope, there are no conspiracies," but educated people know there are. So stop being obtuse and grow up. 9 huge government conspiracies that actually happened




Now, as far as there not being any planes? I don't really know about that. I for one don't believe in that particular position, but I am not willing to condemn those who hold that position. Experts have said otherwise.

The following interview is of a fellow that is a known government disinfo agent. He worked with the government, and was instructed to go get the Iranian hostages, not releasing them a moment before Reagan was sworn in.

So can what he says be trusted? I don't know. I think he's pretty shady to say the least. He talks of little green men, E.T.'s and the like (not that those aren't real), so you sort of take it for what it's worth. OTH, he comes from an elite family that knows the inner workings of the SG, so there does seem to be a lot of info mixed in with disinfo. . . .



Who the hell are we to say there were planes? I don't simply know. Until they release to the public the black boxes, neither of us has any proof either way, do we? So any discussion of planes vs. no planes seems academic to me.

Why does the government not release to the public the flight data recorders if there were planes? What exactly are they hiding? In every other crash, they always release that data or at least the destroyed recorders. So what is the deal here? The government claims those recorders were destroyed, but no wreckage? Does it WANT to fuel such conspiracies?

Seems like it to me.


The main reason I don't believe in the "no planes" theory is that the flight data recording devices WERE found, then the FBI took them, and told the folks that found them to shut up about finding them.

But why?

9/11: Missing Black Boxes in World Trade Center Attacks Found by Firefighters, Analyzed by NTSB, Concealed by FBI
9/11: Missing Black Boxes in World Trade Center Attacks Found by Firefighters, Analyzed by NTSB, Concealed by FBI
But the FBI states, and also reported to the 9-11 Commission, that none of the recording devices from the two planes that hit the World Trade Center were ever recovered.


There has always been some skepticism about this assertion, particularly as two N.Y. City firefighters, Mike Bellone and Nicholas De Masi, claimed in 2004 that they had found three of the four boxes, and that Federal agents took them and told the two men not to mention having found them. (The FBI denies the whole story.) Moreover, these devices are almost always located after crashes, even if not in useable condition (and the cleanup of the World Trade Center was meticulous, with even tiny bone fragments and bits of human tissue being discovered so that almost all the victims were ultimately identified). As Ted Lopatkiewicz, director of public affairs at the National Transportation Safety Agency which has the job of analyzing the boxes’ data, says, “It’s very unusual not to find a recorder after a crash, although it’s also very unusual to have jets flying into buildings.”


<snip>

What the apparent existence of the black boxes in government hands means is unclear.


If the information in those boxes is recoverable, or if, as is likely, it has been recovered already, it could give crucial evidence regarding the skill of the hijacker/pilots, perhaps of their strategy, of whether they were getting outside help in guiding them to their targets, of how fast they were flying and a host of other things.


Why would the main intelligence and law enforcement arm of the U.S. government want to hide from the public not just the available information about the two hijacked flights that provided the motivation and justification for the nation’s “War on Terror” and for its two wars against Afghanistan and Iraq, but even the fact that it has the devices which could contain that information? Conspiracy theories abound, with some claiming the planes were actually pilotless military aircraft, or that they had little or nothing to do with the building collapses. The easiest way to quash such rumors and such fevered thinking would be openness.


Instead we have the opposite: a dark secrecy that invites many questions regarding the potentially embarrassing or perhaps even sinister information that might be on those tapes.

you do know they wont watch the video or read the links right?lol

Go here;

Alexa Top 500 Global Sites

I post for the public, and a post for those interested in the truth.

I care not about those whose world view is clutching to a fiat currency and the boom/bust let's make war on the planet paradigm.

When I left the last forum I was at in 2012, I used Alexa and other analytics to decide to come here. Mostly because at the time, this site was doing well. I haven't analyzed it's performance since then. I don't care. I've grown attached.

I like everyone, whether they agree with me, or disagree with me.

Can you HONESTLY say you don't miss SFC OLLIE?


I do. Nice old chap. And honest. I hope where ever he went to, he is still alive and kicking.

I have nothing personally against any of those who disagree with my POV. As a matter of fact, their POV is much like many of my family members. Do I harbor ill will toward my own family and friends? Of course not. And I full well know my own family are not, "paid government shills."

We can't be expected to be treated seriously and with respect unless we treat those with whom we interact with by the same standards.

You read their links and watch their videos, right?

If they ever post any. . . . .

But they don't. Mostly because there is nothing to that side of the elite ruse but ad hominem and snow job at this point.

And to the few we suspect of being paid disinfo agents, well, it's easy enough to just ignore that, isn't it?

I remember gomer pyle ollie..

 

[LA RAM FAN]

"Which foreign countries accepted non-convertible rubles from the USSR? Why would they?"
Seriously, if you are that fucking stupid as to even ask that question? Then my conversation with you has been a total waste of time....you re just a time waster....seriously, how could someone as stupid as you are even be able to work a computer? You must be an idiot savant.

Seriously, if you are that fucking stupid as to even ask that question?

I've noticed when I point out your idiocy, that you can't answer my questions.
Would you accept non-convertible currency from North Korea? Why/why not?

Then my conversation with you has been a total waste of time....

Well, obviously, because you're a fucking loon. As well as an idiot.

"Which foreign countries accepted non-convertible rubles from the USSR? Why would they?"
Seriously, if you are that fucking stupid as to even ask that question? Then my conversation with you has been a total waste of time....you re just a time waster....seriously, how could someone as stupid as you are even be able to work a computer? You must be an idiot savant.

Seriously, if you are that fucking stupid as to even ask that question?

I've noticed when I point out your idiocy, that you can't answer my questions.
Would you accept non-convertible currency from North Korea? Why/why not?

Then my conversation with you has been a total waste of time....

Well, obviously, because you're a fucking loon. As well as an idiot.

The only thing that you pointed out was your own stupidity....congrats and nicely done. Any idiot that would compare the manufacturing ability of the USSR, their trading abilities with that of North Korea obviously has no grasp on anything. I lean more to the right of the political spectrum than I do the left...but if you classify yourself as a "rightwinger"? You are the reason that people declare themselves as "independent"....I sure as fuck wouldn't want to identify myself as being in the same camp as you.......not ever. ....sheeesh.

Hay bud you are wasting your time with these trolls they are here for one reason and one reason only and that is to disrupt. And you payed mother fuckers know who you are.

thats what i been trying to tell. him- you know they are paid infiltraters when they defend EVERY government lie there is on the face of the earth like candyass,sayit,and todd parrot do.

those trolls even say oswald was the lone assassin.

thank god for the ignore button,they are just here to take up your time,i am glad YOU wisely dont feed these trolls.

the ones that are just in denial,they can at LEAST admit the CIA killed JFK,but when you talk to them about 9/11,they wont look at the facts since it hits too close to home for them and its hard for them to accept the government murdered 3000 of its own citizens.

those kind of Bush dupes are the only ones i bother with.these paid trolls like todd parrot,sayit,skylar and candyass like i said,defend EVERY government event so those shills nobody should pay any mind to.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

There was no conspiracy involved in the Titanic any more than there was one with the 9/11 attacks...
Just a few pages back one of them was saying that there were no planes involved.

Folks like you say, "nope, there are no conspiracies," but educated people know there are. So stop being obtuse and grow up. Now, as far as there not being any planes? I don't really know about that..

Candy never claimed "nope, there are no conspiracies" nor have I ever heard anyone say such a silly thing (except CT loons trying to explain their lunacy).

What she is trying to tell you is that not everything is a conspiracy ... that like most normal people, gov't officials and employees are far too busy living their lives - you know ... mowing the lawn, chasing sex, watching football - to create and perpetrate the elaborate schemes of your vivid imagination.

That after your years of "research" you still are not sure whether or not there were planes involved on 9/11 says all that anyone needs to know about the loons that pervaded your now defunct 9/11 CT Movement.

It is a real blessing to come across someone like you and some others here that know the things that I do and have taken the time to read and research. It is people like you that keeps me going even when I am being dogpiled on in other forums. I have a close knit group of truthers that are a part of my inner circle and we lean on each other and pass on information to each other. I look forward to learning what I can from you and I hope I am able to return the favor and that you might be able to take some of the things I have garnered and be of use to you as well. We are all in this together and it seems that the powers that be are doubling down on their efforts to bring about their totalitarian, feudalistic two class system of elites and serfs. I want you to know that there are "white hats" working on our behalf and there are inner- agency wars going on that the media never speaks of and what will help them is people waking up...that is the thankless job that you and a few others have here.

Indeed most CT loons are forced to seek out and "lean on" their "close knit group of truthers" because normal people ignore or ridicule the CT silliness.

Paranoia is treatable but you first must want to rejoin the rational.

I do find it amusing (but not surprising) that you think yourself some sort of superhero trying to save the world from evil.

Sayit sez???? "Listen to me you flammer of our gubermint...our gubermint loves us and has never lied to us due you here me due you? You due not love this republik for witches stands you traytor of this cunrtry....how dare you acurse our gubermint of laying to us...a curce upon you!!!!"

Seriously, punkinpuss....you are nothing but a bug on the windshield of life .....should we not be able to turn the tide and those that are left end up serving the collective? I will spare you a thought as you scratch your sloped skull when your little world is turned up on it's axis and you are sitting on the curb wonderin' "Where's da gubermint?" Don't fret, little man...there are millions of "I believe in Santa Claus" dumbfucks like you....you will have plenty of company to commiserate with....

disinfo agent sayit along with candyass is one of USMB's biggest paid trolls of them all-i put these two stupid fucks on ignore years ago-

I'll agree with you on SAYIT, as his position on issues changes with the wind. His posting and postions will conform to what ever new administration comes into office next year.

Candy OTH. . .

Though CandyACORN I believe is a grass roots paid partisan poster who really just watches too much TV. She is just innocent and idealistic. One day someone might reach her, I'm not sure she is in any way connected to the intel establishment. One has to love her idealism for what it is, she posts out of a genuine love for humanity, she really does. I understand her POV and the interests that motivate her.

why do you think shill candyass is a SHE?

Women dont discuss the NFL,trust me IT is dude.IT is really the most proper term for that user name in reality.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Only a limited set of products could be freely bought, thus the ruble had a role similar to trading stamps or food stamps. The currency was not internationally exchangeable and its export was illegal.

Thanks. I love it when you idiots post proof of my claim.
Stupid git.

I'll agree with you, this is true for the common lay people.

However, this is NOT TRUE FOR GOVERNMENTS.

How do you think the Soviets bought commodities on the world market? Seriously.


Why do you think wiki listed a conversion table?

How do you think the Soviets bought commodities on the world market?

They used dollars or marks or francs or pounds.

Why do you think wiki listed a conversion table?

Because that's what the Commies said the rubles were worth. Even though they weren't convertible.

Your argument doesn't hold any water, sorry.

Why would the commies say their rubles were worth "X" amount if they never traded them?

Your argument doesn't hold any water, sorry.

What argument? Rubles were not convertible in the USSR.
That's a fact.

Why would the commies say their rubles were worth "X" amount if they never traded them?

If they were tradable, why would the Commies have to tell you what they were worth, you could just post a market chart. Like you could with dollars vs YEN, GBP, DM, SFC, FFC, any tradable currency.

They did it so they could brag about how large their GDP was, in other words, so they could lie.

Like I stated earlier when discussing this topic with another poster, this has to do with the Wanta scandal.

A little research reveals those "exchange rates" listed in wiki are not, "Soviet lies," but are actually import/export ratios.

The Soviet Union tried to be mostly self-reliant. As we can see from those ratios, it became less and less so as their government became larger, more cumbersome and corrupt. Sort of like ours is becoming, eh?

Foreign Economic Reports

A little research reveals those "exchange rates" listed in wiki are not, "Soviet lies," but are actually import/export ratios.

The manner in which the Soviet Union transacted trade varied from one trade partner to another. Soviet trade with the Western industrialized countries, except Finland, and most Third World countries was conducted with hard currency, that is, currency that was freely convertible. Because the ruble was not freely convertible, the Soviet Union could only acquire hard currency by selling Soviet goods or gold on the world market for hard currency. Therefore, the volume of imports from countries using convertible currency depended on the amount of goods the Soviet Union exported for hard currency.

Foreign trade of the Soviet Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[MisterBeale]

Folks like you say, "nope, there are no conspiracies," but educated people know there are. So stop being obtuse and grow up. Now, as far as there not being any planes? I don't really know about that..

Candy never claimed "nope, there are no conspiracies" nor have I ever heard anyone say such a silly thing (except CT loons trying to explain their lunacy).

What she is trying to tell you is that not everything is a conspiracy ... that like most normal people, gov't officials and employees are far too busy living their lives - you know ... mowing the lawn, chasing sex, watching football - to create and perpetrate the elaborate schemes of your vivid imagination.

That after your years of "research" you still are not sure whether or not there were planes involved on 9/11 says all that anyone needs to know about the loons that pervaded your now defunct 9/11 CT Movement.

It is a real blessing to come across someone like you and some others here that know the things that I do and have taken the time to read and research. It is people like you that keeps me going even when I am being dogpiled on in other forums. I have a close knit group of truthers that are a part of my inner circle and we lean on each other and pass on information to each other. I look forward to learning what I can from you and I hope I am able to return the favor and that you might be able to take some of the things I have garnered and be of use to you as well. We are all in this together and it seems that the powers that be are doubling down on their efforts to bring about their totalitarian, feudalistic two class system of elites and serfs. I want you to know that there are "white hats" working on our behalf and there are inner- agency wars going on that the media never speaks of and what will help them is people waking up...that is the thankless job that you and a few others have here.

Indeed most CT loons are forced to seek out and "lean on" their "close knit group of truthers" because normal people ignore or ridicule the CT silliness.

Paranoia is treatable but you first must want to rejoin the rational.

I do find it amusing (but not surprising) that you think yourself some sort of superhero trying to save the world from evil.

Sayit sez???? "Listen to me you flammer of our gubermint...our gubermint loves us and has never lied to us due you here me due you? You due not love this republik for witches stands you traytor of this cunrtry....how dare you acurse our gubermint of laying to us...a curce upon you!!!!"

Seriously, punkinpuss....you are nothing but a bug on the windshield of life .....should we not be able to turn the tide and those that are left end up serving the collective? I will spare you a thought as you scratch your sloped skull when your little world is turned up on it's axis and you are sitting on the curb wonderin' "Where's da gubermint?" Don't fret, little man...there are millions of "I believe in Santa Claus" dumbfucks like you....you will have plenty of company to commiserate with....

disinfo agent sayit along with candyass is one of USMB's biggest paid trolls of them all-i put these two stupid fucks on ignore years ago-

I'll agree with you on SAYIT, as his position on issues changes with the wind. His posting and postions will conform to what ever new administration comes into office next year.

Candy OTH. . .

Though CandyACORN I believe is a grass roots paid partisan poster who really just watches too much TV. She is just innocent and idealistic. One day someone might reach her, I'm not sure she is in any way connected to the intel establishment. One has to love her idealism for what it is, she posts out of a genuine love for humanity, she really does. I understand her POV and the interests that motivate her.

why do you think shill candyass is a SHE?

Women dont discuss the NFL,trust me IT is dude.IT is really the most proper term for that user name in reality.

Lesbian Wing of the Illuminati Seizes Control of the NFL
Lesbian Wing of the Illuminati Seizes Control of the NFL

I've posted to you before about how the NFL is a profit sharing mind control cabal. Why do you even give a shit about the NFL?

Perhaps IT has gender identity disorder. . . . lol

 

[MisterBeale]

I'll agree with you, this is true for the common lay people.

However, this is NOT TRUE FOR GOVERNMENTS.

How do you think the Soviets bought commodities on the world market? Seriously.


Why do you think wiki listed a conversion table?

How do you think the Soviets bought commodities on the world market?

They used dollars or marks or francs or pounds.

Why do you think wiki listed a conversion table?

Because that's what the Commies said the rubles were worth. Even though they weren't convertible.

Your argument doesn't hold any water, sorry.

Why would the commies say their rubles were worth "X" amount if they never traded them?

Your argument doesn't hold any water, sorry.

What argument? Rubles were not convertible in the USSR.
That's a fact.

Why would the commies say their rubles were worth "X" amount if they never traded them?

If they were tradable, why would the Commies have to tell you what they were worth, you could just post a market chart. Like you could with dollars vs YEN, GBP, DM, SFC, FFC, any tradable currency.

They did it so they could brag about how large their GDP was, in other words, so they could lie.

Like I stated earlier when discussing this topic with another poster, this has to do with the Wanta scandal.

A little research reveals those "exchange rates" listed in wiki are not, "Soviet lies," but are actually import/export ratios.

The Soviet Union tried to be mostly self-reliant. As we can see from those ratios, it became less and less so as their government became larger, more cumbersome and corrupt. Sort of like ours is becoming, eh?

Foreign Economic Reports

A little research reveals those "exchange rates" listed in wiki are not, "Soviet lies," but are actually import/export ratios.

The manner in which the Soviet Union transacted trade varied from one trade partner to another. Soviet trade with the Western industrialized countries, except Finland, and most Third World countries was conducted with hard currency, that is, currency that was freely convertible. Because the ruble was not freely convertible, the Soviet Union could only acquire hard currency by selling Soviet goods or gold on the world market for hard currency. Therefore, the volume of imports from countries using convertible currency depended on the amount of goods the Soviet Union exported for hard currency.

Foreign trade of the Soviet Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes, I read that. But then I read the source of that. I'm not impressed.

 

[MisterBeale]

I'll agree with you, this is true for the common lay people.

However, this is NOT TRUE FOR GOVERNMENTS.

How do you think the Soviets bought commodities on the world market? Seriously.


Why do you think wiki listed a conversion table?

How do you think the Soviets bought commodities on the world market?

They used dollars or marks or francs or pounds.

Why do you think wiki listed a conversion table?

Because that's what the Commies said the rubles were worth. Even though they weren't convertible.

Your argument doesn't hold any water, sorry.

Why would the commies say their rubles were worth "X" amount if they never traded them?

Your argument doesn't hold any water, sorry.

What argument? Rubles were not convertible in the USSR.
That's a fact.

Why would the commies say their rubles were worth "X" amount if they never traded them?

If they were tradable, why would the Commies have to tell you what they were worth, you could just post a market chart. Like you could with dollars vs YEN, GBP, DM, SFC, FFC, any tradable currency.

They did it so they could brag about how large their GDP was, in other words, so they could lie.

Like I stated earlier when discussing this topic with another poster, this has to do with the Wanta scandal.

A little research reveals those "exchange rates" listed in wiki are not, "Soviet lies," but are actually import/export ratios.

The Soviet Union tried to be mostly self-reliant. As we can see from those ratios, it became less and less so as their government became larger, more cumbersome and corrupt. Sort of like ours is becoming, eh?

Foreign Economic Reports

A little research reveals those "exchange rates" listed in wiki are not, "Soviet lies," but are actually import/export ratios.

The manner in which the Soviet Union transacted trade varied from one trade partner to another. Soviet trade with the Western industrialized countries, except Finland, and most Third World countries was conducted with hard currency, that is, currency that was freely convertible. Because the ruble was not freely convertible, the Soviet Union could only acquire hard currency by selling Soviet goods or gold on the world market for hard currency. Therefore, the volume of imports from countries using convertible currency depended on the amount of goods the Soviet Union exported for hard currency.

Foreign trade of the Soviet Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Muhammed]

The planes impacted about the 92nd floor, which means that only 18 floors were above the impact.

So 18/110 means approximately 16% of the total building's weight was affected.

Now ask yourselves, if you cut the support between 84% of something, and 16% of something, how does that change the relationship that 84% of something can still HOLD THE FUCKING WEIGHT of 16% of something?

The basic principles of engineering would require us to believe that since the building could already support the top floors severed by plane explosions, that the only event that could happen is the top of the buildings would have collapsed onto the remaining 84% and either jammed, or fallen off like the top of a tree breaking off.

When's the last time you saw a branch fall off a tree, and collapse the entire fucking tree?

I say "probably" because I'm trying to think creatively how 16% of something can gain enough "weight" to collapse something that is holding up itself and is 5.25x as massive as the thing falling on it.

Either the acceleration of the remaining 16% is enough to overcome the support allowed by the remaining 84% or it isn't.

Again if it isn't, then it'd just bounce off and fall to the side or fall around it like water balloon falling on a post.

When is the last time you destroyed concrete and steel?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

How do you think the Soviets bought commodities on the world market?

They used dollars or marks or francs or pounds.

Why do you think wiki listed a conversion table?

Because that's what the Commies said the rubles were worth. Even though they weren't convertible.

Your argument doesn't hold any water, sorry.

Why would the commies say their rubles were worth "X" amount if they never traded them?

Your argument doesn't hold any water, sorry.

What argument? Rubles were not convertible in the USSR.
That's a fact.

Why would the commies say their rubles were worth "X" amount if they never traded them?

If they were tradable, why would the Commies have to tell you what they were worth, you could just post a market chart. Like you could with dollars vs YEN, GBP, DM, SFC, FFC, any tradable currency.

They did it so they could brag about how large their GDP was, in other words, so they could lie.

Like I stated earlier when discussing this topic with another poster, this has to do with the Wanta scandal.

A little research reveals those "exchange rates" listed in wiki are not, "Soviet lies," but are actually import/export ratios.

The Soviet Union tried to be mostly self-reliant. As we can see from those ratios, it became less and less so as their government became larger, more cumbersome and corrupt. Sort of like ours is becoming, eh?

Foreign Economic Reports

A little research reveals those "exchange rates" listed in wiki are not, "Soviet lies," but are actually import/export ratios.

The manner in which the Soviet Union transacted trade varied from one trade partner to another. Soviet trade with the Western industrialized countries, except Finland, and most Third World countries was conducted with hard currency, that is, currency that was freely convertible. Because the ruble was not freely convertible, the Soviet Union could only acquire hard currency by selling Soviet goods or gold on the world market for hard currency. Therefore, the volume of imports from countries using convertible currency depended on the amount of goods the Soviet Union exported for hard currency.

Foreign trade of the Soviet Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes, I read that. But then I read the source of that. I'm not impressed.

It's a widely know fact. How impressive a source do you need?

this has to do with the Wanta scandal.

Sounds scary. Do you have an impressive source?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

How do you think the Soviets bought commodities on the world market?

They used dollars or marks or francs or pounds.

Why do you think wiki listed a conversion table?

Because that's what the Commies said the rubles were worth. Even though they weren't convertible.

Your argument doesn't hold any water, sorry.

Why would the commies say their rubles were worth "X" amount if they never traded them?

Your argument doesn't hold any water, sorry.

What argument? Rubles were not convertible in the USSR.
That's a fact.

Why would the commies say their rubles were worth "X" amount if they never traded them?

If they were tradable, why would the Commies have to tell you what they were worth, you could just post a market chart. Like you could with dollars vs YEN, GBP, DM, SFC, FFC, any tradable currency.

They did it so they could brag about how large their GDP was, in other words, so they could lie.

Like I stated earlier when discussing this topic with another poster, this has to do with the Wanta scandal.

A little research reveals those "exchange rates" listed in wiki are not, "Soviet lies," but are actually import/export ratios.

The Soviet Union tried to be mostly self-reliant. As we can see from those ratios, it became less and less so as their government became larger, more cumbersome and corrupt. Sort of like ours is becoming, eh?

Foreign Economic Reports

A little research reveals those "exchange rates" listed in wiki are not, "Soviet lies," but are actually import/export ratios.

The manner in which the Soviet Union transacted trade varied from one trade partner to another. Soviet trade with the Western industrialized countries, except Finland, and most Third World countries was conducted with hard currency, that is, currency that was freely convertible. Because the ruble was not freely convertible, the Soviet Union could only acquire hard currency by selling Soviet goods or gold on the world market for hard currency. Therefore, the volume of imports from countries using convertible currency depended on the amount of goods the Soviet Union exported for hard currency.

Foreign trade of the Soviet Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When you're talking with conspiracy nuts, there are no straight lines.

 

[MisterBeale]

. . . And to this day, the powerful men that did not want the Federal Reserve, the ones that could have prevented the booms and the busts, the ones that could have prevented the bubbles and the currency wars, the dollar devaluation and all the endless senseless wars in the name of the global banking cabal, went down on that ship.

Now, tax day is the same day that the ship went down.

Remember that next time you have to file your tax forms.

"Necessary to their plans, the Federal Reserve did have some opposition; those who saw what the future would become if banking was outside of the government’s hands, the rates set by a private company such as the Fed. All the wealthy and powerful men the Jesuits wanted to get rid of were invited to take the cruise. Three of the richest and most important of these were Benjamin Guggenheim, Isador Strauss, the head of Macy’s Department Stores, and John Jacob Astor, probably the wealthiest man in the world. Their total wealth, at that time, using dollar values of their day was more than 500 million dollars. Today that amount of money would be worth nearly eleven billion dollars. These three men were coaxed and encouraged to board the floating palace. They had to be destroyed because the Jesuits knew they would use their wealth and influence to oppose a Federal Reserve Bank as well as the various wars that were being planned.


It can also be mentioned that J.P. Morgan, the individual contracted to build the Titanic was scheduled to be on the maiden voyage, but canceled.


Supporters of the idea that the Titanic shipwreck was orchestrated carefully, a Jesuit tempore co-adjutor was picked to captain the ship, a man that would do anything for the order and God’s will; Captain Edward Smith. Quite possibly the most experienced captain of the time, Smith had navigated the waters of the Atlantic for 26 years, a master of the icy waters that the Titanic would be sailing. He was a Jesuit and worked for J.P. Morgan. As National Geographic stated in their 1986 documentary entitilted ‘The Secrets of the Titanic,’ “Anyone could be a Jesuit and their identity not be known.”"
Titanic Conspiracy and The Jesuits - RMS Titanic Article

The only time reality is stranger than fiction is when the minds of men are acting and reacting to make it so.
Insane Coincidences – The “Titanic” Disaster Story

5 Titanic Coincidences That Prove Reality is Stranger than Fiction

I find it unbelievable how malleable the minds of people are today. The government schools have made them so willing to accept what ever paradigm the establishment media cartels will whore out to them.

I suppose that is easier than the horror of facing the truth. That they have done this to us before is a good predictor that folks will love falling for the drama again. I'm sure when they aren't paying attention, or are bored, or aren't willing to do the elites bidding, they will sell us more drama. Just look at San Bernardino or Paris.



No one is saying the Titanic didn't sink or that it wasn't an Iceberg.

Don't be so simple minded. Get off your knees and stop accepting the narratives you are told w/o question.

I thought it was pretty obvious that what I wrote was in gest. Sorry you were not developed enough to realize it.

There was no conspiracy involved in the Titanic any more than there was one with the 9/11 attacks. The looney birds that sponsor such a fantasy have the same IQ as pea soup and any investigation of the subject matter would return any sober observer to the same conclusion.

Just a few pages back one of them was saying that there were no planes involved. It doesn't get any more batshit crazy than that.

Your case and your position is not made any stronger by your ad hominem. Folks like you say, "nope, there are no conspiracies," but educated people know there are. So stop being obtuse and grow up. 9 huge government conspiracies that actually happened




Now, as far as there not being any planes? I don't really know about that. I for one don't believe in that particular position, but I am not willing to condemn those who hold that position. Experts have said otherwise.

The following interview is of a fellow that is a known government disinfo agent. He worked with the government, and was instructed to go get the Iranian hostages, not releasing them a moment before Reagan was sworn in.

So can what he says be trusted? I don't know. I think he's pretty shady to say the least. He talks of little green men, E.T.'s and the like (not that those aren't real), so you sort of take it for what it's worth. OTH, he comes from an elite family that knows the inner workings of the SG, so there does seem to be a lot of info mixed in with disinfo. . . .



Who the hell are we to say there were planes? I don't simply know. Until they release to the public the black boxes, neither of us has any proof either way, do we? So any discussion of planes vs. no planes seems academic to me.

Why does the government not release to the public the flight data recorders if there were planes? What exactly are they hiding? In every other crash, they always release that data or at least the destroyed recorders. So what is the deal here? The government claims those recorders were destroyed, but no wreckage? Does it WANT to fuel such conspiracies?

Seems like it to me.


The main reason I don't believe in the "no planes" theory is that the flight data recording devices WERE found, then the FBI took them, and told the folks that found them to shut up about finding them.

But why?

9/11: Missing Black Boxes in World Trade Center Attacks Found by Firefighters, Analyzed by NTSB, Concealed by FBI
9/11: Missing Black Boxes in World Trade Center Attacks Found by Firefighters, Analyzed by NTSB, Concealed by FBI
But the FBI states, and also reported to the 9-11 Commission, that none of the recording devices from the two planes that hit the World Trade Center were ever recovered.


There has always been some skepticism about this assertion, particularly as two N.Y. City firefighters, Mike Bellone and Nicholas De Masi, claimed in 2004 that they had found three of the four boxes, and that Federal agents took them and told the two men not to mention having found them. (The FBI denies the whole story.) Moreover, these devices are almost always located after crashes, even if not in useable condition (and the cleanup of the World Trade Center was meticulous, with even tiny bone fragments and bits of human tissue being discovered so that almost all the victims were ultimately identified). As Ted Lopatkiewicz, director of public affairs at the National Transportation Safety Agency which has the job of analyzing the boxes’ data, says, “It’s very unusual not to find a recorder after a crash, although it’s also very unusual to have jets flying into buildings.”


<snip>

What the apparent existence of the black boxes in government hands means is unclear.


If the information in those boxes is recoverable, or if, as is likely, it has been recovered already, it could give crucial evidence regarding the skill of the hijacker/pilots, perhaps of their strategy, of whether they were getting outside help in guiding them to their targets, of how fast they were flying and a host of other things.


Why would the main intelligence and law enforcement arm of the U.S. government want to hide from the public not just the available information about the two hijacked flights that provided the motivation and justification for the nation’s “War on Terror” and for its two wars against Afghanistan and Iraq, but even the fact that it has the devices which could contain that information? Conspiracy theories abound, with some claiming the planes were actually pilotless military aircraft, or that they had little or nothing to do with the building collapses. The easiest way to quash such rumors and such fevered thinking would be openness.


Instead we have the opposite: a dark secrecy that invites many questions regarding the potentially embarrassing or perhaps even sinister information that might be on those tapes.

you do know they wont watch the video or read the links right?lol

Go here;

Alexa Top 500 Global Sites

I post for the public, and a post for those interested in the truth.

I care not about those whose world view is clutching to a fiat currency and the boom/bust let's make war on the planet paradigm.

When I left the last forum I was at in 2012, I used Alexa and other analytics to decide to come here. Mostly because at the time, this site was doing well. I haven't analyzed it's performance since then. I don't care. I've grown attached.

I like everyone, whether they agree with me, or disagree with me.

Can you HONESTLY say you don't miss SFC OLLIE?


I do. Nice old chap. And honest. I hope where ever he went to, he is still alive and kicking.

I have nothing personally against any of those who disagree with my POV. As a matter of fact, their POV is much like many of my family members. Do I harbor ill will toward my own family and friends? Of course not. And I full well know my own family are not, "paid government shills."

We can't be expected to be treated seriously and with respect unless we treat those with whom we interact with by the same standards.

You read their links and watch their videos, right?

If they ever post any. . . . .

But they don't. Mostly because there is nothing to that side of the elite ruse but ad hominem and snow job at this point.

And to the few we suspect of being paid disinfo agents, well, it's easy enough to just ignore that, isn't it?

I remember gomer pyle ollie..

I believe you might be too young to understand his "interests."

Trying to imagine what it would be like, to be that senior in the establishment. . . It's too far out. I don't think he ever meant any harm.

He was a way cool person outside of the discussions in the conspiracy forums. The nation sorely needs more folks with that sort of moral fiber.

Is he a tool for the establishment. . . perhaps. But then, whose father, grandfather, etc. isn't it?

I refuse to let divide et imperium be used on our nation. That is all there is to it.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

How do you think the Soviets bought commodities on the world market?

They used dollars or marks or francs or pounds.

Why do you think wiki listed a conversion table?

Because that's what the Commies said the rubles were worth. Even though they weren't convertible.

Your argument doesn't hold any water, sorry.

Why would the commies say their rubles were worth "X" amount if they never traded them?

Your argument doesn't hold any water, sorry.

What argument? Rubles were not convertible in the USSR.
That's a fact.

Why would the commies say their rubles were worth "X" amount if they never traded them?

If they were tradable, why would the Commies have to tell you what they were worth, you could just post a market chart. Like you could with dollars vs YEN, GBP, DM, SFC, FFC, any tradable currency.

They did it so they could brag about how large their GDP was, in other words, so they could lie.

Like I stated earlier when discussing this topic with another poster, this has to do with the Wanta scandal.

A little research reveals those "exchange rates" listed in wiki are not, "Soviet lies," but are actually import/export ratios.

The Soviet Union tried to be mostly self-reliant. As we can see from those ratios, it became less and less so as their government became larger, more cumbersome and corrupt. Sort of like ours is becoming, eh?

Foreign Economic Reports

A little research reveals those "exchange rates" listed in wiki are not, "Soviet lies," but are actually import/export ratios.

The manner in which the Soviet Union transacted trade varied from one trade partner to another. Soviet trade with the Western industrialized countries, except Finland, and most Third World countries was conducted with hard currency, that is, currency that was freely convertible. Because the ruble was not freely convertible, the Soviet Union could only acquire hard currency by selling Soviet goods or gold on the world market for hard currency. Therefore, the volume of imports from countries using convertible currency depended on the amount of goods the Soviet Union exported for hard currency.

Foreign trade of the Soviet Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes, I read that. But then I read the source of that. I'm not impressed.

June 30, 2006 3:00 am
Russia prepares for convertible rouble

By Neil Buckley in Moscow

Memories of Russia's default on $40bn of domestic debt eight years ago, when people queued outside banks to withdraw roubles that were plummeting in value, have barely faded from the national psyche.

Yet, remarkably, with coffers swollen by oil selling at $70 a barrel, Russia will tomorrow lift all currency controls on the rouble and make it fully convertible. Everyone will be able to move roubles freely out of and into the country, foreign and offshore investors will be able to open rouble bank accounts, and restrictions on rouble fixed-income investments will disappear.

Russia prepares for convertible rouble - FT.com

Financial Times work?

 

[MisterBeale]

Your argument doesn't hold any water, sorry.

Why would the commies say their rubles were worth "X" amount if they never traded them?

Your argument doesn't hold any water, sorry.

What argument? Rubles were not convertible in the USSR.
That's a fact.

Why would the commies say their rubles were worth "X" amount if they never traded them?

If they were tradable, why would the Commies have to tell you what they were worth, you could just post a market chart. Like you could with dollars vs YEN, GBP, DM, SFC, FFC, any tradable currency.

They did it so they could brag about how large their GDP was, in other words, so they could lie.

Like I stated earlier when discussing this topic with another poster, this has to do with the Wanta scandal.

A little research reveals those "exchange rates" listed in wiki are not, "Soviet lies," but are actually import/export ratios.

The Soviet Union tried to be mostly self-reliant. As we can see from those ratios, it became less and less so as their government became larger, more cumbersome and corrupt. Sort of like ours is becoming, eh?

Foreign Economic Reports

A little research reveals those "exchange rates" listed in wiki are not, "Soviet lies," but are actually import/export ratios.

The manner in which the Soviet Union transacted trade varied from one trade partner to another. Soviet trade with the Western industrialized countries, except Finland, and most Third World countries was conducted with hard currency, that is, currency that was freely convertible. Because the ruble was not freely convertible, the Soviet Union could only acquire hard currency by selling Soviet goods or gold on the world market for hard currency. Therefore, the volume of imports from countries using convertible currency depended on the amount of goods the Soviet Union exported for hard currency.

Foreign trade of the Soviet Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When you're talking with conspiracy nuts, there are no straight lines.

*sigh* More ad hominem.

Is that the best you can do?


All I am trying to say, which I have maintained from the beginning of this digression, is that, in all likelihood, you are more correct than I. I have stated simply, that I don't understand the intricacies of the Wanta scandal.

What I do know, is that the person that covered it was an adviser to Margaret Thatcher and a friend to Ronald Reagan. He was in close personal contact with Lee Emil Wanta himself.

I don't generally put a lot of stock in hearsay or hypothesis. Who to trust, and what the facts are; are big things in my world. I like SOLID EVIDENCE. How do we know that Edward Harle is trust worthy? Well, in 2006 he was warning of catastrophic corruption and imminent collapse if the settlements weren't released. What ever that means. lol All I know, is collapse happened, didn't it?



Like this piece, it's one of my favorites. It's directly from one of the co-founders of Wikileaks. They go directly to the public, not the press first. It is something TANGIBLE that I can read. Directly from NIST; it's something that shows there is a cover-up by the bureaucracy. In my book, where there is smoke, there is fire. How does releasing data used to model a collapse "jeopardize public safety?" Precisely, it doesn't. Not unless you want to avoid protests in the street and a popular revolt against CFR managed corporate press, industry, and banking interests.

If intelligent and inquisitive folks WANT to see the evidence, here is the smoking gun.

http://cryptome.org/wtc-nist-wtc7-no.pdf

 

[MisterBeale]

Your argument doesn't hold any water, sorry.

Why would the commies say their rubles were worth "X" amount if they never traded them?

Your argument doesn't hold any water, sorry.

What argument? Rubles were not convertible in the USSR.
That's a fact.

Why would the commies say their rubles were worth "X" amount if they never traded them?

If they were tradable, why would the Commies have to tell you what they were worth, you could just post a market chart. Like you could with dollars vs YEN, GBP, DM, SFC, FFC, any tradable currency.

They did it so they could brag about how large their GDP was, in other words, so they could lie.

Like I stated earlier when discussing this topic with another poster, this has to do with the Wanta scandal.

A little research reveals those "exchange rates" listed in wiki are not, "Soviet lies," but are actually import/export ratios.

The Soviet Union tried to be mostly self-reliant. As we can see from those ratios, it became less and less so as their government became larger, more cumbersome and corrupt. Sort of like ours is becoming, eh?

Foreign Economic Reports

A little research reveals those "exchange rates" listed in wiki are not, "Soviet lies," but are actually import/export ratios.

The manner in which the Soviet Union transacted trade varied from one trade partner to another. Soviet trade with the Western industrialized countries, except Finland, and most Third World countries was conducted with hard currency, that is, currency that was freely convertible. Because the ruble was not freely convertible, the Soviet Union could only acquire hard currency by selling Soviet goods or gold on the world market for hard currency. Therefore, the volume of imports from countries using convertible currency depended on the amount of goods the Soviet Union exported for hard currency.

Foreign trade of the Soviet Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes, I read that. But then I read the source of that. I'm not impressed.

It's a widely know fact. How impressive a source do you need?

this has to do with the Wanta scandal.

Sounds scary. Do you have an impressive source?

The source goes back to the government. If you know anything about the scandal, then you would know that this source is absolutely worthless.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Your argument doesn't hold any water, sorry.

What argument? Rubles were not convertible in the USSR.
That's a fact.

Why would the commies say their rubles were worth "X" amount if they never traded them?

If they were tradable, why would the Commies have to tell you what they were worth, you could just post a market chart. Like you could with dollars vs YEN, GBP, DM, SFC, FFC, any tradable currency.

They did it so they could brag about how large their GDP was, in other words, so they could lie.

Like I stated earlier when discussing this topic with another poster, this has to do with the Wanta scandal.

A little research reveals those "exchange rates" listed in wiki are not, "Soviet lies," but are actually import/export ratios.

The Soviet Union tried to be mostly self-reliant. As we can see from those ratios, it became less and less so as their government became larger, more cumbersome and corrupt. Sort of like ours is becoming, eh?

Foreign Economic Reports

A little research reveals those "exchange rates" listed in wiki are not, "Soviet lies," but are actually import/export ratios.

The manner in which the Soviet Union transacted trade varied from one trade partner to another. Soviet trade with the Western industrialized countries, except Finland, and most Third World countries was conducted with hard currency, that is, currency that was freely convertible. Because the ruble was not freely convertible, the Soviet Union could only acquire hard currency by selling Soviet goods or gold on the world market for hard currency. Therefore, the volume of imports from countries using convertible currency depended on the amount of goods the Soviet Union exported for hard currency.

Foreign trade of the Soviet Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When you're talking with conspiracy nuts, there are no straight lines.

*sigh* More ad hominem.

Is that the best you can do?


All I am trying to say, which I have maintained from the beginning of this digression, is that, in all likelihood, you are more correct than I. I have stated simply, that I don't understand the intricacies of the Wanta scandal.

What I do know, is that the person that covered it was an adviser to Margaret Thatcher and a friend to Ronald Reagan. He was in close personal contact with Lee Emil Wanta himself.

I don't generally put a lot of stock in hearsay or hypothesis. Who to trust, and what the facts are; are big things in my world. I like SOLID EVIDENCE. How do we know that Edward Harle is trust worthy? Well, in 2006 he was warning of catastrophic corruption and imminent collapse if the settlements weren't released. What ever that means. lol All I know, is collapse happened, didn't it?



Like this piece, it's one of my favorites. It's directly from one of the co-founders of Wikileaks. They go directly to the public, not the press first. It is something TANGIBLE that I can read. Directly from NIST; it's something that shows there is a cover-up by the bureaucracy. In my book, where there is smoke, there is fire. How does releasing data used to model a collapse "jeopardize public safety?" Precisely, it doesn't. Not unless you want to avoid protests in the street and a popular revolt against CFR managed corporate press, industry, and banking interests.

If intelligent and inquisitive folks WANT to see the evidence, here is the smoking gun.

http://cryptome.org/wtc-nist-wtc7-no.pdf

I have stated simply, that I don't understand the intricacies of the Wanta scandal.

Never heard of it.

Well, in 2006 he was warning of catastrophic corruption and imminent collapse if the settlements weren't released. What ever that means. lol All I know, is collapse happened, didn't it?

What settlements?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Your argument doesn't hold any water, sorry.

What argument? Rubles were not convertible in the USSR.
That's a fact.

Why would the commies say their rubles were worth "X" amount if they never traded them?

If they were tradable, why would the Commies have to tell you what they were worth, you could just post a market chart. Like you could with dollars vs YEN, GBP, DM, SFC, FFC, any tradable currency.

They did it so they could brag about how large their GDP was, in other words, so they could lie.

Like I stated earlier when discussing this topic with another poster, this has to do with the Wanta scandal.

A little research reveals those "exchange rates" listed in wiki are not, "Soviet lies," but are actually import/export ratios.

The Soviet Union tried to be mostly self-reliant. As we can see from those ratios, it became less and less so as their government became larger, more cumbersome and corrupt. Sort of like ours is becoming, eh?

Foreign Economic Reports

A little research reveals those "exchange rates" listed in wiki are not, "Soviet lies," but are actually import/export ratios.

The manner in which the Soviet Union transacted trade varied from one trade partner to another. Soviet trade with the Western industrialized countries, except Finland, and most Third World countries was conducted with hard currency, that is, currency that was freely convertible. Because the ruble was not freely convertible, the Soviet Union could only acquire hard currency by selling Soviet goods or gold on the world market for hard currency. Therefore, the volume of imports from countries using convertible currency depended on the amount of goods the Soviet Union exported for hard currency.

Foreign trade of the Soviet Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes, I read that. But then I read the source of that. I'm not impressed.

It's a widely know fact. How impressive a source do you need?

this has to do with the Wanta scandal.

Sounds scary. Do you have an impressive source?

The source goes back to the government. If you know anything about the scandal, then you would know that this source is absolutely worthless.

What source?

 

[MisterBeale]

Like I stated earlier when discussing this topic with another poster, this has to do with the Wanta scandal.

A little research reveals those "exchange rates" listed in wiki are not, "Soviet lies," but are actually import/export ratios.

The Soviet Union tried to be mostly self-reliant. As we can see from those ratios, it became less and less so as their government became larger, more cumbersome and corrupt. Sort of like ours is becoming, eh?

Foreign Economic Reports

A little research reveals those "exchange rates" listed in wiki are not, "Soviet lies," but are actually import/export ratios.

The manner in which the Soviet Union transacted trade varied from one trade partner to another. Soviet trade with the Western industrialized countries, except Finland, and most Third World countries was conducted with hard currency, that is, currency that was freely convertible. Because the ruble was not freely convertible, the Soviet Union could only acquire hard currency by selling Soviet goods or gold on the world market for hard currency. Therefore, the volume of imports from countries using convertible currency depended on the amount of goods the Soviet Union exported for hard currency.

Foreign trade of the Soviet Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes, I read that. But then I read the source of that. I'm not impressed.

It's a widely know fact. How impressive a source do you need?

this has to do with the Wanta scandal.

Sounds scary. Do you have an impressive source?

The source goes back to the government. If you know anything about the scandal, then you would know that this source is absolutely worthless.

What source?

lol. I like you Todd, you're an intelligent fellow. You keep me honest, now it's my turn to do the same for you.

That wiki article you quoted was almost entirely based on one source. For all intents and purposes it was plagiarized from government propaganda. Didn't you read the "NOTES?" (There were very, VERY few from that second source.)

1. Notes
2. Text used in this cited section originally came from: Soviet Union Country Study from the Library of Congress Country Studies project.
   The piratization of Russia: Russian reform goes awry. Marshall I. Goldman.
   

Soviet Union : a country study /
Sure, it's "a widely known fact," that Soviet currency couldn't be traded. But that is not how intelligence operatives worked. Apparently they had Wanta inserted in Somalia as an Ambassador to Canada and a Socialist nation in Europe. lol. I forget which one now.

Then he set up some clandestine contacts with some folks in the Netherlands, used taxpayer funds from the treasury, and acquired the Soviet Currency. Who knows the nitty gritty, down and dirty how they do things? I don't. It was done via an executive order though. But just because I don't know how intelligence operatives under Reagan got things done, doesn't mean I'm going to say, "oh, well, they couldn't have possibly traded arms for hostages, because, well, that was illegal." Of course they could have done these currency swaps, we have seen the results.

You say it's impossible. The hard proof of others say it happened. And here we are talking about it, aren't we?

Wanta Group Verfies Head of U.S Treasury Detained In Germany Over Failure To Release $4.5 trillion in Wanta Funds
The Arctic Beacon

Why can't we trust the establishment and wiki when it comes to this topic?
WHITE HOUSE ORDERS CONTACT WITH STORY TO CEASE
U.S. OFFICIALS ASK FOR A ‘TRUCE’, THEN LIE THAT WANTA HAS BEEN PAID
Saturday 8 December 2007 13:56
News - WHITE HOUSE ORDERS CONTACT WITH STORY TO CEASE
Wicked Pedia Update dated 2nd December 2007:

WIKIPEDIA IS PART OF AN NSA DISCREDITING OPERATION
As previously reported, the Editor’s attention was drawn, in the second half of November 2007, to a pack of old lies, diversionary claptrap and disinformation posted on Wikipedia under ‘Leo Wanta’.

Although this posting appeared FOR THE FIRST TIME on 12th November 2007, it consisted almost entirely of ancient lies, including disinformation dredged out of ‘Thieves’ World’, a hatchet job published in 1994 by Simon and Schuster by the late Claire Sterling, a CIA operative.

Mrs Sterling died suddenly after being summoned for her second meeting with the Federal Bureau of Investigation, under Clinton.

ANCIENT DISCREDITED LIES POSTED IN NOVEMBER 2007
The fact that the OLD Wikipedia lies appeared for the first time as late as 12th November 2007, and consisted almost totally of old, discredited lies, omitting the Master Lie that the CIA retailed after the Ambassador had been taken down, namely that he was DEAD, indicated quite clearly to the Editor and his advisers that this latest evil display of regurgitated disinformation represented a deliberate operation by the US intelligence community’s disinformation and lie machine, to begin, all over again, the process of discrediting Ambassador Leo Wanta – so that they can relieve him of his funds by some false pretext or other after a ‘gag order’ has been signed.




Let's look at some of the principals that stood to gain by covering this up, shall we?


THE WANTAGATE LISTING OF INSTITUTION DIRECTORS
INTERIM REPORT PENDING FURTHER WANTA INTELLIGENCE
Monday 11 June 2007 01:35
News - THE WANTAGATE LISTING OF INSTITUTION DIRECTORS
PART 1: LIST OF DIRECTORS AND RELEVANT OFFICIALS AND OTHERS:
The following is a list of Directors of financial institutions, elected and appointed US and UK officials, Commissioners and others, who may have variously allowed, condoned, accommodated, or whose institutions may have actively participated in, and may continue to participate in, criminal and illegal fiat money financial transactions exploiting the $4.5 trillion compromise financial Settlement agreed for Ambassador Wanta in May and June 2006 and/or circumstances arising therefrom. Typically, this Settlement was negotiated by the duplicitous US intelligence crooks concerned, in bad faith; but the agreement is binding on all parties and has to be implemented. At the very least, each individual listed here may be an Accessory to the Fact of some or all of the felonies under US law listed in Part 3 of this presentation. Many may have been or may be co-conspirators. All the Directors of the World Bank are included, given that, as with all Directors in any context, it is their responsibility to see to it that the institution on the Board of which they serve does not engage in dubious, ethically improper and/or illegal and criminal activities, including the diversion and exploitation of assets belonging to others. Since there is no excuse in law for ignorance of the law – even in the international environment where the Rule of Law has been replaced by the Law of the Jungle – those Directors and others listed here who may profess to be ignorant of the scandalous exploitation of Ambassador Wanta’s underlying $27.5+ trillion of assets held in his USC Title 18, Section 6 corporations’ bank accounts, and/or of transactions derived from Ambassador Wanta’s $4.5 trillion Settlement funds, cannot sustain any such defence for their inaction in failing to take steps to have criminal transnational financial abuses stopped, and those responsible reported and brought before relevant Courts of Law*.

Aass, Svein, Executive Director, Norway, World Bank
Alkhalifa, Abdulhamid, Alternative Director, Saudi Arabia, World Bank
Almofahdi, Abdulrahman M, Executive Director, Saudi Arabia, World Bank
Alzetta, Gino, Executive Director, Belgium, World Bank
Amr, Mohamed Kamel, Alternative Director, Egypt, World Bank
Armstrong, C Michael, Director, Citigroup Inc.
Arshad, Nursiah, Alternative Director, Malaysia, World Bank
Atkins, Paul S, Commissioner, US Securities and Exchange Commission
Baker, James A, III, former Treasury Secretary and Secretary of State
Baker, John D., II, Director, Wachovia
Barber, Brendan Paul, Member, Bank of England Court of Directors
Barnet, William, III, Director, Bank of America
Barrett, Mathew W, Chairman Barclays Capital
Belda, Alain J P, Director, Citigroup Inc.
Bernanke, Ben S, Chairman, Federal Reserve Board, Director, Bank for International Settlements
Bernasconi, Francisco, Alternative Director, Chile, World Bank
Biggs, John H, Board Member, JPMorganChase
Blair, Anthony, British Prime Minister
Blankfein, Lloyd C, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Goldman Sachs
Bodman, Secretary Samuel P, US Cabinet Member
Borsig, Dr Clemens, Chairman, Deutsche Bank Supervisory Board
Botero, Jorge Humberto, Alternative Director, Colombia, World Bank
Bowles, Randall C, Board Member, JPMorganChase
Bramble, Frank P, Sr., Director, Bank of America
Brown, Kevin M, Acting US Commissioner of Internal Revenue
Briault, Clive, Member of the Board of the UK Financial Services Authority
Browning, Peter C, Director, Wachovia
Bryan, John H, Director, Goldman Sachs
Burke, Stephen B, Board Member, JPMorganChase
Bush, George W, Jr, President of the United States
Butler, The Rt Hon Lord of Brockwell, KB, GCB, CVO, Director, HSBC
Camarasa, Felix Alberto, Executive Director, Argentina, World Bank
Campos, Roel C, Commissioner, US Securities and Exchange Commission
Canuto, Otaviano, Executive Director, Brazil, World Bank
Cardona, Michel, Paris, Alternate Director, Bank for International Settlements
Carioso, Giovanni, Rome, Alternate Director, Bank for International Settlements
Casey, Kathleen L, Commissioner, US Securities and Exchange Commission
Casteen, John T, III, Director, Wachovia
Chao, Secretary Elaine, US Cabinet Member
Cheney, Richard B, Vice President of the United States
Chertoff, Michael, Secretary, Department of Homeland Security, US Cabinet Member
Choi, Joong-Kyung, Executive Director, South Korea, World Bank
Ciocca, Pierluigi, Rome, Director, Bank for International Settlements
Clinton, William Jefferson, former President of the United States, CIA operative
Clinton, Senator Hillary, wife of William Jefferson Clinton, CIA operative
Cohn, Gary D, President and CEO, Goldman Sachs
Collins, John T, Director, Bank of America
Coombe, J D, Director, HSBC
Countryman, Gary L, Director, Bank of America
Cox, Christopher, Chairman, US Securities and Exchange Commission
Crosby, Sir James, Member of the Board of the UK Financial Services Authority
Crowen, James A, Board Member, JPMorganChase
Dahlback, Claes, Director, Goldman Sachs
Davies, Mervyn, CBE, Chairman, Standard Chartered
Debevoise, E Whitney, Executive Director, World Bank
Del Missier, Jerry, Co-President, Barclays Capital
DeNoma, Mike, Sands, Peter, Executive Director, Standard Chartered
Deraman, Mat Aron, Executive Director, Malaysia, World Bank
Derr, Kenneth J, Director, Citigroup Inc.
Deutch, John M, Director, Citigroup Inc.
Deutscher, Eckhard, Executive Director, Germany, World Bank
Dias, Agapito Mendes, Alternative Director, Sao Tome and Principe, World Bank
Dib, Sid Ahmed, Alternative Director, Algeria, World Bank
Dimon, James, Chairman and CEO, JPMorgan Chase
Dodge, David, Ottawa, Director, Bank for International Settlements
Doltu, Claudiu, Alternative Director, Romania, World Bank
Draghi, Mario, Rome, Director, Bank for International Settlements
Duquesne, Pierre, Executive Director, France, World Bank
Dynn, The Baroness, DBE, Deputy Chairman, senior non-executive Director, HSBC
Eick, Dr Karl-Gerhard, Member, Deutsche Bank Supervisory Board
Engan, Laura J, Deputy Secretary, Wisconsin Department of Revenue
Ervin, Roger M, Secretary, Wisconsin Department of Revenue
Fabritius, Dr Hans Georg, Member of Deutsche Bundesbank Executive Board
Fairhead, R A, Director, HSBC
Familiar, Jorge, Executive Director, Mexico, World Bank
Fawcett, Amelia Chilcott, CBE, Member, Bank of England Court of Directors
Fisher, Paul, London, Alternate Director, Bank for International Settlements
Fisher, Peter, Member of the Board of the UK Financial Services Authority
Flanagan, Brian, Member of the Board of the UK Financial Services Authority
Flint, D J, CBE, Group Finance Director, HSBC
Forseke, Karin, Member of the Board of the UK Financial Services Authority
Forster, Heldrun, Member, Deutsche Bank Supervisory Board
Franks, Tommy R, Director, Bank of America
Francis, Mary Elizabeth, CBE, LVO, Member, Bank of England Court of Directors
Frazier, Gregg T, Chief, Central Audit Section, Wisconsin Department of Revenue
Friedman, Stephen, Director, Goldman Sachs
Fukui, Toshihiko, Tokyo, Director, Bank for International Settlements
Fulton, Paul, Director, Bank of America
Fung, W K L, OBE, Director, HSBC
Galea, Robert, Director, Wachovia
Gates, Robert M, US Secretary of Defense, US Cabinet Member
Geithner, Timothy F, New York, Director, Bank for International Settlements
Geoghegan, M F, CBE, Group Chief Executive, HSBC
George, J Russell, US Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration
George, William W, Director, Goldman Sachs
Gieve, Sir John, CB, Deputy Governor, Bank of England
Gifford, Charles K, Director, Bank of America
Gitt, Jerry, Director, Wachovia
Gonzales, Alberto, US Attorney General, US Cabinet Member
Goodwin, William H., Jr, Director, Wachovia
Gray, William H, III, Board Member, JPMorganChase
Green, S K, Group Chairman, HSBC
Gupta, Rajat K, Director, Goldman Sachs
Gutierrez, Secretary Carlos, US Cabinet Member
Hall, Sir Graham Joseph, Member, Bank of England Court of Directors
Hartmann, Ulrich, Member, Deutsche Bank Supervisory Board
Hasan, Merza H, Executive Director, Kuwait, World Bank
Herringer, Maryellen C, Director, Wachovia
Hertzberg, Gerd, Member, Deutsche Bank Supervisory Board
Heyden, General Michael, Director of Central Intelligence
Horn, Sabine, Member, Deutsche Bank Supervisory Board
Hosomi, Makoto, Executive Director, Japan, World Bank
Hughes-Hallett, J W J, Director, HSBC
Hunck, Rolf, Member, Deutsche Bank Supervisory Board
Hutton, Dame Deidre, CBE, Member of the Board, UK Financial Services Authority
Ingram, Robert A, Director, Wachovia
Ingves, Stefan, Stockholm, Director, Bank for International Settlements
Jackson, Laban P, Jr, Board Member, JPMorganChase
Jackson, Secretary Alfonso, US Cabinet Member
James, Donald M, Director, Wachovia
Jay, The Hon Peter, Member, Bank of England Court of Directors
Jenkins, Roger, Head, Barclays Private Equity, senior Barclays Capital official
Job, Sir Peter, London, Member, Deutsche Bank Supervisory Board
Johanns, Secretary Mike, US Cabinet Member
Johnson, James A, Director, Goldman Sachs
Johnson, Karen H, Washington, Alternate Director, Bank for International Settlements
Jones, W Steven, Director, Bank of America
Juliber, Lois D, Director, Goldman Sachs
Kagermann, Professor Dr Henning, Member, Deutsche Bank Supervisory Board
Kariniemi, Pauli, Alternative Director, Finland, World Bank
Karnowski, Jakob, Alternative Director, Poland, World Bank
Katafias, William, Senior Vice President, Wachovia
Kaufmann, Ulrich, Member, Deutsche Bank Supervisory Board
Kazmierczak, Peter, Member, Deutsche Bank Supervisory Board
Kempthorne, Secretary Dirk, US Cabinet Member
Kenmire, David, Member of the Board of the UK Financial Services Authority
Kessler, John W, Board Member, JPMorganChase
Ketseal, Mulu, Executive Director, Ethiopia, World Bank
Khan, Zakir Ahmed, Alternative Director, Bangladesh, World Bank
Kimmitt, Robert M, Deputy Secretary, US Treasury
King, Mervyn Allister, Governor, Bank of England, Director, Bank for International Settlements
Kleinfeld, Klaus, Director, Citigroup Inc.
Kotz, Professor Hans-Helmut, Member of Deutsche Bundesbank Executive Board
Kumar, Dhanendra, Executive Director, India, World Bank
Kvalheim, Grant, Co-President, Barclays Capital
Kvasov, Alexey G, Executive Director, Russian Federation, World Bank
Laundau, Jean-Pierre, Paris, Director, Bank for International Settlements
Leavitt, Secretary Michael O, US Cabinet Member
Levy, Maurice, Member, Deutsche Bank Supervisory Board
Lewis, Kenneth J, Chairman, CEO and President, Bank of America
Lightbourne, Ishmael, Alternative Director, Bahamas, World Bank
Likierman, Professor Sir John Andrew, Member, Bank of England Court of Directors
Lipp, Robert I, Board Member, JPMorganChase
Liveris, Andrew N, Director, Citigroup Inc.
Lomax, Rachel, Deputy Governor, Bank of England
Lozano, Monica C, Director, Bank of America
Manoogian, Richard A, Board Member, JPMorganChase
Mark, Henriette, Member, Deutsche Bank Supervisory Board
Massey, Walter E, Director, Bank of America
May, Thomas J, Director, Bank of America
McCarthy, Sir Callum, Chairman, Financial Services Authority, Member, Bank of England Court of Directors
McDonald, Mackey J, Director, Wachovia
Meddings, Richard, Sands, Peter, Executive Director, Standard Chartered
Mesiter, Dr Edgar, Member of Deutsche Bundesbank Executive Board
Miagkov, Eugene, Alternative Director, Russian Federation, World Bank
Miles, Professor David, Member of the Board of the UK Financial Services Authority
Mitchell, Patricia E, Director, Bank of America
Moffatt, Sir Brian, OBE, Deputy Chairman, HSBC
Moody-Stuart, Sir Mark, KCMG, Director, HSBC
Mordasini, Michel, Executive Director, Switzerland, World Bank
Morgan, G, Director, HSBC
Morke, Wolfgang, Frankfurt am Main, Alternate Director, Bank for International Settlements
Morrice, Robert, Chairman and Chief Executive, Asia pacific, Barclays Capital
Mulcahy, Anne, Director, Citigroup Inc.
Myners, Paul, Member, Bank of England Court of Directors
Nargolwala, Kai, Sands, Peter, Executive Director, Standard Chartered
Nazareth, Annete L, Commissioner, US Securities and Exchange Commission
Negroponte, John, former Director of Central Intelligence, Deputy Secretary of State
Nemli, Melih, Alternative Director, Turkey, World Bank
Neubauer, Joseph, Director, Wachovia
Newton, S W, Director, HSBC
Nicholson, Secretary Jim, US Cabinet Member
Novak, David C, Board Member, JPMorganChase
O’Brien, Terry, Alternative Director, Australia, World Bank
Parker, Sir Thomas John, Member, Bank of England Court of Directors
Parsons, Richard D, Director, Citigroup Inc.
Paulson, Henry M, Secretary, US Treasury
Peters, Secretary Mary E, US Cabinet Member
Pinto, Nuno Mota, Alternative Director, Portugal, World Bank
Platscher, Gabriele, Member, Deutsche Bank Supervisory Board
Praet, Peter, Alternate Director, Bank for International Settlements
Prince, Charles, Chairman and CEO, Citigroup Inc.
Proctor, Timothy D, Director, Wachovia
Potter, Dr David Edwin, CBE, Member, Bank of England Court of Directors
Quaden, Guy, Brussels, Director, Bank for International Settlements
Rabbatts, Heather Victoria, CBE, Member, Bank of England Court of Directors
Rady, Ernest, Director, Wachovia
Ramirez, Jose Alejandro Rojas, Alternative Director, Venezuela, World Bank
Ramirez, Robert Hernandez,
Raymond, Lee R, Board Member, JPMorganChase
Reckers, Dr Hans, Member of Deutsche Bundesbank Executive Board
Remsperger, Professor Hermann, Member of Deutsche Bundesbank Executive Board
Rhind, Professor David William, CBE, FRS, FBA, Member, Bank of England Court of Directors
Ricci, Rich, CEO, Barclays Capital
Rice, Condoleeza, US Secretary of State, US Cabinet Member
Richey, Van L, Director, Wachovia
Robert E Diamond, Jr., President, Barclays PLC and Barclays Bank PLC
Robertson, S M, Director, HSBC
Rodin, Judith, Director, Citigroup Inc.
Rogers, John F W, Director, Goldman Sachs
Roth, Jean-Pierre, Chairman, Bank for International Settlements
Rubin, Robert E, Chairman of Executive Committee, Citigroup Inc.
Ruck, Karin, Member, Deutsche Bank Supervisory Board
Ryan, Thomas M, Director, Bank of America
Sands, Peter, Executive Director, Standard Chartered
Sarin, Alun, Member, Bank of England Court of Directors
Scholar, Tom, Executive Director, UK, World Bank
Seng, Louis Philippe, Ong, Executive Director, Mauritius, World Bank
Shah, Shuja, Executive Director, Pakistan, World Bank
Shaw, Ruth G, Director, Wachovia
Sigert, Dr Theo, Member, Deutsche Bank Supervisory Board
Simmons, Ruth J, Director, Goldman Sachs
Sinamenye, Mathias, Alternative Director, Burundi, World Bank
Slack, Michael, Member of the Board of the UK Financial Services Authority
Sloan, O Temple, Jr, Director, Bank of America
Smith, Lanty L, Director, Wachovia
Spangler, Meredith R, Director, Bank of America
Spellings, Secretary Margaret, US Cabinet Member
Strachan, James Murray, Member, Bank of England Court of Directors
Stark, Professor Jurgen, Vice-President, Deutsche Bundesbank
Stevenson, Hugh, Member of the Board of the UK Financial Services Authority
Strauss-Kahn, Marc-Olivier, Alternate Director, Bank for International Settlements
Thomas, Franklin A, Director, Citigroup Inc.
Thompson, Ken, Chairman and CEO, Wachovia
Tietmeyer, Hans, Frankfurt am Main, Vice-Chairman, Bank for International Settlements
Tillman, Robert L, Director, Bank of America
Tiner, John, Chief Executive, UK Financial Services Authority
Todenhofer, Tilman, Member, Deutsche Bank Supervisory Board
Tucker, Paul, London, Alternate Director, Bank for International Settlements
Verplaetse, Alfons Vicomte, Brussels, Director, Bank for International Settlements
Visco, Ignazio, Rome, Alternate Director, Bank for International Settlements
Von Pierer, Professor Dr. jur Dr.-ing. E.h. Heinrich, Member, Deutsche Bank Supervisory Board
Ward, Jackie M, Director, Bank of America
Watson, Samy, Executive Director, Canada, World Bank
Weber, Axel A, Frankfurt am Main, Director, Bank for International Settlements
Weber, Dipl.-ing. Dr.-ing. E. h. Jurgen, Member, Deutsche Bank Supervisory Board
Weber, Professor Axel A, President, Deutsche Bundesbank
Weldon, William C, Board Member, JPMorganChase
Wellink, Nout H E M, Amsterdam, Director, Bank for International Settlements
Whitaker, John C, Jr, Director, Wachovia
Wigley, Robert Charles Michael, Member, Bank of England Court of Directors
Wijffels, Herman, Executive Director, Netherlands, World Bank
Wilkinson, Geoffrey Charles George, Member, Bank of England Court of Directors
Wilkinson, Jim, Chief of Staff, US Treasury
Williamson, Sir Brian, CBE, Director, HSBC
Winkelried, President and CEO
Wolfowitz, Paul, President (to end-June 2007), United States, World Bank
Wunderlich, Leo, Member, Deutsche Bank Supervisory Board,
Yang, Jinlin, Alternative Director, World Bank
Young, Dona Davis, Director, Wachovia
Zeitler, Professor Franz-Christoph, Vice-President, Deutsche Bundesbank
Zou, Jiayi, Executive Director, China, World Bank

* Sources: Websites monitored on 30th May 2007 of: Bank for International Settlements; Bank of America; Bank of England; Barclays Bank Plc; Barclays Capital; Citigroup, Inc; Deutsche Bank;
Federal Reserve Board; Financial Services Authority; Goldman Sachs; HSBC; JPMorganChase; Securities and Exchange Commission; Standard Chartered; US Treasury; Wachovia Corporation;
World Bank (Alternative Directors are included because the appellation ‘Alternative’ does not absolve them from their responsibilities as Directors of the World Bank; Identities of the countries they represent are shown, except that details of World Bank constituencies are omitted).

Note A: The terms of some Members of the Court of Directors of the Bank of England expired on 31st May 2007. Note B: Many of the names listed are Directors of other entities. In this list, we show only their Directorships of the institutions or organisations pertinent to this presentation. Data current as posted, as of 30th May 2007.


Now then, I really do wish to end with this Wanta distraction. I just don't think you and I are going to agree on anything having to do with it.

I saw the crash coming a year and a half before it happened by reading these reports. You will not convince me that this honorable man who was a friend to Thatcher and Reagan was some tin foil hatter. Sorry.

Other sources, events, and HARD EVIDENCE led me to believe that it was all real. I was at a different forum in those days. I could tell you tales, but that my friend, is another story. . . .

 

[MisterBeale]

Your argument doesn't hold any water, sorry.

Why would the commies say their rubles were worth "X" amount if they never traded them?

Your argument doesn't hold any water, sorry.

What argument? Rubles were not convertible in the USSR.
That's a fact.

Why would the commies say their rubles were worth "X" amount if they never traded them?

If they were tradable, why would the Commies have to tell you what they were worth, you could just post a market chart. Like you could with dollars vs YEN, GBP, DM, SFC, FFC, any tradable currency.

They did it so they could brag about how large their GDP was, in other words, so they could lie.

Like I stated earlier when discussing this topic with another poster, this has to do with the Wanta scandal.

A little research reveals those "exchange rates" listed in wiki are not, "Soviet lies," but are actually import/export ratios.

The Soviet Union tried to be mostly self-reliant. As we can see from those ratios, it became less and less so as their government became larger, more cumbersome and corrupt. Sort of like ours is becoming, eh?

Foreign Economic Reports

A little research reveals those "exchange rates" listed in wiki are not, "Soviet lies," but are actually import/export ratios.

The manner in which the Soviet Union transacted trade varied from one trade partner to another. Soviet trade with the Western industrialized countries, except Finland, and most Third World countries was conducted with hard currency, that is, currency that was freely convertible. Because the ruble was not freely convertible, the Soviet Union could only acquire hard currency by selling Soviet goods or gold on the world market for hard currency. Therefore, the volume of imports from countries using convertible currency depended on the amount of goods the Soviet Union exported for hard currency.

Foreign trade of the Soviet Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When you're talking with conspiracy nuts, there are no straight lines.

Fair enough. I don't suppose there should be straight lines when talking with anyone.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

A little research reveals those "exchange rates" listed in wiki are not, "Soviet lies," but are actually import/export ratios.

The manner in which the Soviet Union transacted trade varied from one trade partner to another. Soviet trade with the Western industrialized countries, except Finland, and most Third World countries was conducted with hard currency, that is, currency that was freely convertible. Because the ruble was not freely convertible, the Soviet Union could only acquire hard currency by selling Soviet goods or gold on the world market for hard currency. Therefore, the volume of imports from countries using convertible currency depended on the amount of goods the Soviet Union exported for hard currency.

Foreign trade of the Soviet Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes, I read that. But then I read the source of that. I'm not impressed.

It's a widely know fact. How impressive a source do you need?

this has to do with the Wanta scandal.

Sounds scary. Do you have an impressive source?

The source goes back to the government. If you know anything about the scandal, then you would know that this source is absolutely worthless.

What source?

lol. I like you Todd, you're an intelligent fellow. You keep me honest, now it's my turn to do the same for you.

That wiki article you quoted was almost entirely based on one source. For all intents and purposes it was plagiarized from government propaganda. Didn't you read the "NOTES?" (There were very, VERY few from that second source.)

1. Notes
2. Text used in this cited section originally came from: Soviet Union Country Study from the Library of Congress Country Studies project.
   The piratization of Russia: Russian reform goes awry. Marshall I. Goldman.

Soviet Union : a country study /
Sure, it's "a widely known fact," that Soviet currency couldn't be traded. But that is not how intelligence operatives worked. Apparently they had Wanta inserted in Somalia as an Ambassador to Canada and a Socialist nation in Europe. lol. I forget which one now.

Then he set up some clandestine contacts with some folks in the Netherlands, used taxpayer funds from the treasury, and acquired the Soviet Currency. Who knows the nitty gritty, down and dirty how they do things? I don't. It was done via an executive order though. But just because I don't know how intelligence operatives under Reagan got things done, doesn't mean I'm going to say, "oh, well, they couldn't have possibly traded arms for hostages, because, well, that was illegal." Of course they could have done these currency swaps, we have seen the results.

You say it's impossible. The hard proof of others say it happened. And here we are talking about it, aren't we?

Wanta Group Verfies Head of U.S Treasury Detained In Germany Over Failure To Release $4.5 trillion in Wanta Funds
The Arctic Beacon

Why can't we trust the establishment and wiki when it comes to this topic?
WHITE HOUSE ORDERS CONTACT WITH STORY TO CEASE
U.S. OFFICIALS ASK FOR A ‘TRUCE’, THEN LIE THAT WANTA HAS BEEN PAID
Saturday 8 December 2007 13:56
News - WHITE HOUSE ORDERS CONTACT WITH STORY TO CEASE
Wicked Pedia Update dated 2nd December 2007:

WIKIPEDIA IS PART OF AN NSA DISCREDITING OPERATION
As previously reported, the Editor’s attention was drawn, in the second half of November 2007, to a pack of old lies, diversionary claptrap and disinformation posted on Wikipedia under ‘Leo Wanta’.

Although this posting appeared FOR THE FIRST TIME on 12th November 2007, it consisted almost entirely of ancient lies, including disinformation dredged out of ‘Thieves’ World’, a hatchet job published in 1994 by Simon and Schuster by the late Claire Sterling, a CIA operative.

Mrs Sterling died suddenly after being summoned for her second meeting with the Federal Bureau of Investigation, under Clinton.

ANCIENT DISCREDITED LIES POSTED IN NOVEMBER 2007
The fact that the OLD Wikipedia lies appeared for the first time as late as 12th November 2007, and consisted almost totally of old, discredited lies, omitting the Master Lie that the CIA retailed after the Ambassador had been taken down, namely that he was DEAD, indicated quite clearly to the Editor and his advisers that this latest evil display of regurgitated disinformation represented a deliberate operation by the US intelligence community’s disinformation and lie machine, to begin, all over again, the process of discrediting Ambassador Leo Wanta – so that they can relieve him of his funds by some false pretext or other after a ‘gag order’ has been signed.




Let's look at some of the principals that stood to gain by covering this up, shall we?


THE WANTAGATE LISTING OF INSTITUTION DIRECTORS
INTERIM REPORT PENDING FURTHER WANTA INTELLIGENCE
Monday 11 June 2007 01:35
News - THE WANTAGATE LISTING OF INSTITUTION DIRECTORS
PART 1: LIST OF DIRECTORS AND RELEVANT OFFICIALS AND OTHERS:
The following is a list of Directors of financial institutions, elected and appointed US and UK officials, Commissioners and others, who may have variously allowed, condoned, accommodated, or whose institutions may have actively participated in, and may continue to participate in, criminal and illegal fiat money financial transactions exploiting the $4.5 trillion compromise financial Settlement agreed for Ambassador Wanta in May and June 2006 and/or circumstances arising therefrom. Typically, this Settlement was negotiated by the duplicitous US intelligence crooks concerned, in bad faith; but the agreement is binding on all parties and has to be implemented. At the very least, each individual listed here may be an Accessory to the Fact of some or all of the felonies under US law listed in Part 3 of this presentation. Many may have been or may be co-conspirators. All the Directors of the World Bank are included, given that, as with all Directors in any context, it is their responsibility to see to it that the institution on the Board of which they serve does not engage in dubious, ethically improper and/or illegal and criminal activities, including the diversion and exploitation of assets belonging to others. Since there is no excuse in law for ignorance of the law – even in the international environment where the Rule of Law has been replaced by the Law of the Jungle – those Directors and others listed here who may profess to be ignorant of the scandalous exploitation of Ambassador Wanta’s underlying $27.5+ trillion of assets held in his USC Title 18, Section 6 corporations’ bank accounts, and/or of transactions derived from Ambassador Wanta’s $4.5 trillion Settlement funds, cannot sustain any such defence for their inaction in failing to take steps to have criminal transnational financial abuses stopped, and those responsible reported and brought before relevant Courts of Law*.

Aass, Svein, Executive Director, Norway, World Bank
Alkhalifa, Abdulhamid, Alternative Director, Saudi Arabia, World Bank
Almofahdi, Abdulrahman M, Executive Director, Saudi Arabia, World Bank
Alzetta, Gino, Executive Director, Belgium, World Bank
Amr, Mohamed Kamel, Alternative Director, Egypt, World Bank
Armstrong, C Michael, Director, Citigroup Inc.
Arshad, Nursiah, Alternative Director, Malaysia, World Bank
Atkins, Paul S, Commissioner, US Securities and Exchange Commission
Baker, James A, III, former Treasury Secretary and Secretary of State
Baker, John D., II, Director, Wachovia
Barber, Brendan Paul, Member, Bank of England Court of Directors
Barnet, William, III, Director, Bank of America
Barrett, Mathew W, Chairman Barclays Capital
Belda, Alain J P, Director, Citigroup Inc.
Bernanke, Ben S, Chairman, Federal Reserve Board, Director, Bank for International Settlements
Bernasconi, Francisco, Alternative Director, Chile, World Bank
Biggs, John H, Board Member, JPMorganChase
Blair, Anthony, British Prime Minister
Blankfein, Lloyd C, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Goldman Sachs
Bodman, Secretary Samuel P, US Cabinet Member
Borsig, Dr Clemens, Chairman, Deutsche Bank Supervisory Board
Botero, Jorge Humberto, Alternative Director, Colombia, World Bank
Bowles, Randall C, Board Member, JPMorganChase
Bramble, Frank P, Sr., Director, Bank of America
Brown, Kevin M, Acting US Commissioner of Internal Revenue
Briault, Clive, Member of the Board of the UK Financial Services Authority
Browning, Peter C, Director, Wachovia
Bryan, John H, Director, Goldman Sachs
Burke, Stephen B, Board Member, JPMorganChase
Bush, George W, Jr, President of the United States
Butler, The Rt Hon Lord of Brockwell, KB, GCB, CVO, Director, HSBC
Camarasa, Felix Alberto, Executive Director, Argentina, World Bank
Campos, Roel C, Commissioner, US Securities and Exchange Commission
Canuto, Otaviano, Executive Director, Brazil, World Bank
Cardona, Michel, Paris, Alternate Director, Bank for International Settlements
Carioso, Giovanni, Rome, Alternate Director, Bank for International Settlements
Casey, Kathleen L, Commissioner, US Securities and Exchange Commission
Casteen, John T, III, Director, Wachovia
Chao, Secretary Elaine, US Cabinet Member
Cheney, Richard B, Vice President of the United States
Chertoff, Michael, Secretary, Department of Homeland Security, US Cabinet Member
Choi, Joong-Kyung, Executive Director, South Korea, World Bank
Ciocca, Pierluigi, Rome, Director, Bank for International Settlements
Clinton, William Jefferson, former President of the United States, CIA operative
Clinton, Senator Hillary, wife of William Jefferson Clinton, CIA operative
Cohn, Gary D, President and CEO, Goldman Sachs
Collins, John T, Director, Bank of America
Coombe, J D, Director, HSBC
Countryman, Gary L, Director, Bank of America
Cox, Christopher, Chairman, US Securities and Exchange Commission
Crosby, Sir James, Member of the Board of the UK Financial Services Authority
Crowen, James A, Board Member, JPMorganChase
Dahlback, Claes, Director, Goldman Sachs
Davies, Mervyn, CBE, Chairman, Standard Chartered
Debevoise, E Whitney, Executive Director, World Bank
Del Missier, Jerry, Co-President, Barclays Capital
DeNoma, Mike, Sands, Peter, Executive Director, Standard Chartered
Deraman, Mat Aron, Executive Director, Malaysia, World Bank
Derr, Kenneth J, Director, Citigroup Inc.
Deutch, John M, Director, Citigroup Inc.
Deutscher, Eckhard, Executive Director, Germany, World Bank
Dias, Agapito Mendes, Alternative Director, Sao Tome and Principe, World Bank
Dib, Sid Ahmed, Alternative Director, Algeria, World Bank
Dimon, James, Chairman and CEO, JPMorgan Chase
Dodge, David, Ottawa, Director, Bank for International Settlements
Doltu, Claudiu, Alternative Director, Romania, World Bank
Draghi, Mario, Rome, Director, Bank for International Settlements
Duquesne, Pierre, Executive Director, France, World Bank
Dynn, The Baroness, DBE, Deputy Chairman, senior non-executive Director, HSBC
Eick, Dr Karl-Gerhard, Member, Deutsche Bank Supervisory Board
Engan, Laura J, Deputy Secretary, Wisconsin Department of Revenue
Ervin, Roger M, Secretary, Wisconsin Department of Revenue
Fabritius, Dr Hans Georg, Member of Deutsche Bundesbank Executive Board
Fairhead, R A, Director, HSBC
Familiar, Jorge, Executive Director, Mexico, World Bank
Fawcett, Amelia Chilcott, CBE, Member, Bank of England Court of Directors
Fisher, Paul, London, Alternate Director, Bank for International Settlements
Fisher, Peter, Member of the Board of the UK Financial Services Authority
Flanagan, Brian, Member of the Board of the UK Financial Services Authority
Flint, D J, CBE, Group Finance Director, HSBC
Forseke, Karin, Member of the Board of the UK Financial Services Authority
Forster, Heldrun, Member, Deutsche Bank Supervisory Board
Franks, Tommy R, Director, Bank of America
Francis, Mary Elizabeth, CBE, LVO, Member, Bank of England Court of Directors
Frazier, Gregg T, Chief, Central Audit Section, Wisconsin Department of Revenue
Friedman, Stephen, Director, Goldman Sachs
Fukui, Toshihiko, Tokyo, Director, Bank for International Settlements
Fulton, Paul, Director, Bank of America
Fung, W K L, OBE, Director, HSBC
Galea, Robert, Director, Wachovia
Gates, Robert M, US Secretary of Defense, US Cabinet Member
Geithner, Timothy F, New York, Director, Bank for International Settlements
Geoghegan, M F, CBE, Group Chief Executive, HSBC
George, J Russell, US Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration
George, William W, Director, Goldman Sachs
Gieve, Sir John, CB, Deputy Governor, Bank of England
Gifford, Charles K, Director, Bank of America
Gitt, Jerry, Director, Wachovia
Gonzales, Alberto, US Attorney General, US Cabinet Member
Goodwin, William H., Jr, Director, Wachovia
Gray, William H, III, Board Member, JPMorganChase
Green, S K, Group Chairman, HSBC
Gupta, Rajat K, Director, Goldman Sachs
Gutierrez, Secretary Carlos, US Cabinet Member
Hall, Sir Graham Joseph, Member, Bank of England Court of Directors
Hartmann, Ulrich, Member, Deutsche Bank Supervisory Board
Hasan, Merza H, Executive Director, Kuwait, World Bank
Herringer, Maryellen C, Director, Wachovia
Hertzberg, Gerd, Member, Deutsche Bank Supervisory Board
Heyden, General Michael, Director of Central Intelligence
Horn, Sabine, Member, Deutsche Bank Supervisory Board
Hosomi, Makoto, Executive Director, Japan, World Bank
Hughes-Hallett, J W J, Director, HSBC
Hunck, Rolf, Member, Deutsche Bank Supervisory Board
Hutton, Dame Deidre, CBE, Member of the Board, UK Financial Services Authority
Ingram, Robert A, Director, Wachovia
Ingves, Stefan, Stockholm, Director, Bank for International Settlements
Jackson, Laban P, Jr, Board Member, JPMorganChase
Jackson, Secretary Alfonso, US Cabinet Member
James, Donald M, Director, Wachovia
Jay, The Hon Peter, Member, Bank of England Court of Directors
Jenkins, Roger, Head, Barclays Private Equity, senior Barclays Capital official
Job, Sir Peter, London, Member, Deutsche Bank Supervisory Board
Johanns, Secretary Mike, US Cabinet Member
Johnson, James A, Director, Goldman Sachs
Johnson, Karen H, Washington, Alternate Director, Bank for International Settlements
Jones, W Steven, Director, Bank of America
Juliber, Lois D, Director, Goldman Sachs
Kagermann, Professor Dr Henning, Member, Deutsche Bank Supervisory Board
Kariniemi, Pauli, Alternative Director, Finland, World Bank
Karnowski, Jakob, Alternative Director, Poland, World Bank
Katafias, William, Senior Vice President, Wachovia
Kaufmann, Ulrich, Member, Deutsche Bank Supervisory Board
Kazmierczak, Peter, Member, Deutsche Bank Supervisory Board
Kempthorne, Secretary Dirk, US Cabinet Member
Kenmire, David, Member of the Board of the UK Financial Services Authority
Kessler, John W, Board Member, JPMorganChase
Ketseal, Mulu, Executive Director, Ethiopia, World Bank
Khan, Zakir Ahmed, Alternative Director, Bangladesh, World Bank
Kimmitt, Robert M, Deputy Secretary, US Treasury
King, Mervyn Allister, Governor, Bank of England, Director, Bank for International Settlements
Kleinfeld, Klaus, Director, Citigroup Inc.
Kotz, Professor Hans-Helmut, Member of Deutsche Bundesbank Executive Board
Kumar, Dhanendra, Executive Director, India, World Bank
Kvalheim, Grant, Co-President, Barclays Capital
Kvasov, Alexey G, Executive Director, Russian Federation, World Bank
Laundau, Jean-Pierre, Paris, Director, Bank for International Settlements
Leavitt, Secretary Michael O, US Cabinet Member
Levy, Maurice, Member, Deutsche Bank Supervisory Board
Lewis, Kenneth J, Chairman, CEO and President, Bank of America
Lightbourne, Ishmael, Alternative Director, Bahamas, World Bank
Likierman, Professor Sir John Andrew, Member, Bank of England Court of Directors
Lipp, Robert I, Board Member, JPMorganChase
Liveris, Andrew N, Director, Citigroup Inc.
Lomax, Rachel, Deputy Governor, Bank of England
Lozano, Monica C, Director, Bank of America
Manoogian, Richard A, Board Member, JPMorganChase
Mark, Henriette, Member, Deutsche Bank Supervisory Board
Massey, Walter E, Director, Bank of America
May, Thomas J, Director, Bank of America
McCarthy, Sir Callum, Chairman, Financial Services Authority, Member, Bank of England Court of Directors
McDonald, Mackey J, Director, Wachovia
Meddings, Richard, Sands, Peter, Executive Director, Standard Chartered
Mesiter, Dr Edgar, Member of Deutsche Bundesbank Executive Board
Miagkov, Eugene, Alternative Director, Russian Federation, World Bank
Miles, Professor David, Member of the Board of the UK Financial Services Authority
Mitchell, Patricia E, Director, Bank of America
Moffatt, Sir Brian, OBE, Deputy Chairman, HSBC
Moody-Stuart, Sir Mark, KCMG, Director, HSBC
Mordasini, Michel, Executive Director, Switzerland, World Bank
Morgan, G, Director, HSBC
Morke, Wolfgang, Frankfurt am Main, Alternate Director, Bank for International Settlements
Morrice, Robert, Chairman and Chief Executive, Asia pacific, Barclays Capital
Mulcahy, Anne, Director, Citigroup Inc.
Myners, Paul, Member, Bank of England Court of Directors
Nargolwala, Kai, Sands, Peter, Executive Director, Standard Chartered
Nazareth, Annete L, Commissioner, US Securities and Exchange Commission
Negroponte, John, former Director of Central Intelligence, Deputy Secretary of State
Nemli, Melih, Alternative Director, Turkey, World Bank
Neubauer, Joseph, Director, Wachovia
Newton, S W, Director, HSBC
Nicholson, Secretary Jim, US Cabinet Member
Novak, David C, Board Member, JPMorganChase
O’Brien, Terry, Alternative Director, Australia, World Bank
Parker, Sir Thomas John, Member, Bank of England Court of Directors
Parsons, Richard D, Director, Citigroup Inc.
Paulson, Henry M, Secretary, US Treasury
Peters, Secretary Mary E, US Cabinet Member
Pinto, Nuno Mota, Alternative Director, Portugal, World Bank
Platscher, Gabriele, Member, Deutsche Bank Supervisory Board
Praet, Peter, Alternate Director, Bank for International Settlements
Prince, Charles, Chairman and CEO, Citigroup Inc.
Proctor, Timothy D, Director, Wachovia
Potter, Dr David Edwin, CBE, Member, Bank of England Court of Directors
Quaden, Guy, Brussels, Director, Bank for International Settlements
Rabbatts, Heather Victoria, CBE, Member, Bank of England Court of Directors
Rady, Ernest, Director, Wachovia
Ramirez, Jose Alejandro Rojas, Alternative Director, Venezuela, World Bank
Ramirez, Robert Hernandez,
Raymond, Lee R, Board Member, JPMorganChase
Reckers, Dr Hans, Member of Deutsche Bundesbank Executive Board
Remsperger, Professor Hermann, Member of Deutsche Bundesbank Executive Board
Rhind, Professor David William, CBE, FRS, FBA, Member, Bank of England Court of Directors
Ricci, Rich, CEO, Barclays Capital
Rice, Condoleeza, US Secretary of State, US Cabinet Member
Richey, Van L, Director, Wachovia
Robert E Diamond, Jr., President, Barclays PLC and Barclays Bank PLC
Robertson, S M, Director, HSBC
Rodin, Judith, Director, Citigroup Inc.
Rogers, John F W, Director, Goldman Sachs
Roth, Jean-Pierre, Chairman, Bank for International Settlements
Rubin, Robert E, Chairman of Executive Committee, Citigroup Inc.
Ruck, Karin, Member, Deutsche Bank Supervisory Board
Ryan, Thomas M, Director, Bank of America
Sands, Peter, Executive Director, Standard Chartered
Sarin, Alun, Member, Bank of England Court of Directors
Scholar, Tom, Executive Director, UK, World Bank
Seng, Louis Philippe, Ong, Executive Director, Mauritius, World Bank
Shah, Shuja, Executive Director, Pakistan, World Bank
Shaw, Ruth G, Director, Wachovia
Sigert, Dr Theo, Member, Deutsche Bank Supervisory Board
Simmons, Ruth J, Director, Goldman Sachs
Sinamenye, Mathias, Alternative Director, Burundi, World Bank
Slack, Michael, Member of the Board of the UK Financial Services Authority
Sloan, O Temple, Jr, Director, Bank of America
Smith, Lanty L, Director, Wachovia
Spangler, Meredith R, Director, Bank of America
Spellings, Secretary Margaret, US Cabinet Member
Strachan, James Murray, Member, Bank of England Court of Directors
Stark, Professor Jurgen, Vice-President, Deutsche Bundesbank
Stevenson, Hugh, Member of the Board of the UK Financial Services Authority
Strauss-Kahn, Marc-Olivier, Alternate Director, Bank for International Settlements
Thomas, Franklin A, Director, Citigroup Inc.
Thompson, Ken, Chairman and CEO, Wachovia
Tietmeyer, Hans, Frankfurt am Main, Vice-Chairman, Bank for International Settlements
Tillman, Robert L, Director, Bank of America
Tiner, John, Chief Executive, UK Financial Services Authority
Todenhofer, Tilman, Member, Deutsche Bank Supervisory Board
Tucker, Paul, London, Alternate Director, Bank for International Settlements
Verplaetse, Alfons Vicomte, Brussels, Director, Bank for International Settlements
Visco, Ignazio, Rome, Alternate Director, Bank for International Settlements
Von Pierer, Professor Dr. jur Dr.-ing. E.h. Heinrich, Member, Deutsche Bank Supervisory Board
Ward, Jackie M, Director, Bank of America
Watson, Samy, Executive Director, Canada, World Bank
Weber, Axel A, Frankfurt am Main, Director, Bank for International Settlements
Weber, Dipl.-ing. Dr.-ing. E. h. Jurgen, Member, Deutsche Bank Supervisory Board
Weber, Professor Axel A, President, Deutsche Bundesbank
Weldon, William C, Board Member, JPMorganChase
Wellink, Nout H E M, Amsterdam, Director, Bank for International Settlements
Whitaker, John C, Jr, Director, Wachovia
Wigley, Robert Charles Michael, Member, Bank of England Court of Directors
Wijffels, Herman, Executive Director, Netherlands, World Bank
Wilkinson, Geoffrey Charles George, Member, Bank of England Court of Directors
Wilkinson, Jim, Chief of Staff, US Treasury
Williamson, Sir Brian, CBE, Director, HSBC
Winkelried, President and CEO
Wolfowitz, Paul, President (to end-June 2007), United States, World Bank
Wunderlich, Leo, Member, Deutsche Bank Supervisory Board,
Yang, Jinlin, Alternative Director, World Bank
Young, Dona Davis, Director, Wachovia
Zeitler, Professor Franz-Christoph, Vice-President, Deutsche Bundesbank
Zou, Jiayi, Executive Director, China, World Bank

* Sources: Websites monitored on 30th May 2007 of: Bank for International Settlements; Bank of America; Bank of England; Barclays Bank Plc; Barclays Capital; Citigroup, Inc; Deutsche Bank;
Federal Reserve Board; Financial Services Authority; Goldman Sachs; HSBC; JPMorganChase; Securities and Exchange Commission; Standard Chartered; US Treasury; Wachovia Corporation;
World Bank (Alternative Directors are included because the appellation ‘Alternative’ does not absolve them from their responsibilities as Directors of the World Bank; Identities of the countries they represent are shown, except that details of World Bank constituencies are omitted).

Note A: The terms of some Members of the Court of Directors of the Bank of England expired on 31st May 2007. Note B: Many of the names listed are Directors of other entities. In this list, we show only their Directorships of the institutions or organisations pertinent to this presentation. Data current as posted, as of 30th May 2007.


Now then, I really do wish to end with this Wanta distraction. I just don't think you and I are going to agree on anything having to do with it.

I saw the crash coming a year and a half before it happened by reading these reports. You will not convince me that this honorable man who was a friend to Thatcher and Reagan was some tin foil hatter. Sorry.

Other sources, events, and HARD EVIDENCE led me to believe that it was all real. I was at a different forum in those days. I could tell you tales, but that my friend, is another story. . . .

That wiki article you quoted was almost entirely based on one source. For all intents and purposes it was plagiarized from government propaganda. Didn't you read the "NOTES?" (There were very, VERY few from that second source.)

Are you talking about the source for "rubles aren't convertible"?