World Trade Center probably could not have been destroyed by planes

The titanic was an inside job too. Take a piece of ice. Hit it with a metal hammer. What breaks. The ice? Or the Hammer? The Titanic was made of steel...it should have broken the ice the same way.....

Easy
Peasy
Japanesee


. . . And to this day, the powerful men that did not want the Federal Reserve, the ones that could have prevented the booms and the busts, the ones that could have prevented the bubbles and the currency wars, the dollar devaluation and all the endless senseless wars in the name of the global banking cabal, went down on that ship.

Now, tax day is the same day that the ship went down.

Remember that next time you have to file your tax forms.
jesuits-300x296.jpg

"Necessary to their plans, the Federal Reserve did have some opposition; those who saw what the future would become if banking was outside of the government’s hands, the rates set by a private company such as the Fed. All the wealthy and powerful men the Jesuits wanted to get rid of were invited to take the cruise. Three of the richest and most important of these were Benjamin Guggenheim, Isador Strauss, the head of Macy’s Department Stores, and John Jacob Astor, probably the wealthiest man in the world. Their total wealth, at that time, using dollar values of their day was more than 500 million dollars. Today that amount of money would be worth nearly eleven billion dollars. These three men were coaxed and encouraged to board the floating palace. They had to be destroyed because the Jesuits knew they would use their wealth and influence to oppose a Federal Reserve Bank as well as the various wars that were being planned.


It can also be mentioned that J.P. Morgan, the individual contracted to build the Titanic was scheduled to be on the maiden voyage, but canceled.


Supporters of the idea that the Titanic shipwreck was orchestrated carefully, a Jesuit tempore co-adjutor was picked to captain the ship, a man that would do anything for the order and God’s will; Captain Edward Smith. Quite possibly the most experienced captain of the time, Smith had navigated the waters of the Atlantic for 26 years, a master of the icy waters that the Titanic would be sailing. He was a Jesuit and worked for J.P. Morgan. As National Geographic stated in their 1986 documentary entitilted ‘The Secrets of the Titanic,’ “Anyone could be a Jesuit and their identity not be known.”"
Titanic Conspiracy and The Jesuits - RMS Titanic Article

The only time reality is stranger than fiction is when the minds of men are acting and reacting to make it so.

Insane Coincidences – The “Titanic” Disaster Story

5 Titanic Coincidences That Prove Reality is Stranger than Fiction

I find it unbelievable how malleable the minds of people are today. The government schools have made them so willing to accept what ever paradigm the establishment media cartels will whore out to them.

I suppose that is easier than the horror of facing the truth. That they have done this to us before is a good predictor that folks will love falling for the drama again. I'm sure when they aren't paying attention, or are bored, or aren't willing to do the elites bidding, they will sell us more drama. Just look at San Bernardino or Paris.



No one is saying the Titanic didn't sink or that it wasn't an Iceberg.

Don't be so simple minded. Get off your knees and stop accepting the narratives you are told w/o question.


I thought it was pretty obvious that what I wrote was in gest. Sorry you were not developed enough to realize it.

There was no conspiracy involved in the Titanic any more than there was one with the 9/11 attacks. The looney birds that sponsor such a fantasy have the same IQ as pea soup and any investigation of the subject matter would return any sober observer to the same conclusion.

Just a few pages back one of them was saying that there were no planes involved. It doesn't get any more batshit crazy than that.


Your case and your position is not made any stronger by your ad hominem. Folks like you say, "nope, there are no conspiracies," but educated people know there are. So stop being obtuse and grow up. 9 huge government conspiracies that actually happened




Now, as far as there not being any planes? I don't really know about that. I for one don't believe in that particular position, but I am not willing to condemn those who hold that position. Experts have said otherwise.

The following interview is of a fellow that is a known government disinfo agent. He worked with the government, and was instructed to go get the Iranian hostages, not releasing them a moment before Reagan was sworn in.

So can what he says be trusted? I don't know. I think he's pretty shady to say the least. He talks of little green men, E.T.'s and the like (not that those aren't real), so you sort of take it for what it's worth. OTH, he comes from an elite family that knows the inner workings of the SG, so there does seem to be a lot of info mixed in with disinfo. . . .



Who the hell are we to say there were planes? I don't simply know. Until they release to the public the black boxes, neither of us has any proof either way, do we? So any discussion of planes vs. no planes seems academic to me.

Why does the government not release to the public the flight data recorders if there were planes? What exactly are they hiding? In every other crash, they always release that data or at least the destroyed recorders. So what is the deal here? The government claims those recorders were destroyed, but no wreckage? Does it WANT to fuel such conspiracies?

Seems like it to me.:tinfoil:


The main reason I don't believe in the "no planes" theory is that the flight data recording devices WERE found, then the FBI took them, and told the folks that found them to shut up about finding them.

But why?

9/11: Missing Black Boxes in World Trade Center Attacks Found by Firefighters, Analyzed by NTSB, Concealed by FBI
9/11: Missing Black Boxes in World Trade Center Attacks Found by Firefighters, Analyzed by NTSB, Concealed by FBI
But the FBI states, and also reported to the 9-11 Commission, that none of the recording devices from the two planes that hit the World Trade Center were ever recovered.


There has always been some skepticism about this assertion, particularly as two N.Y. City firefighters, Mike Bellone and Nicholas De Masi, claimed in 2004 that they had found three of the four boxes, and that Federal agents took them and told the two men not to mention having found them. (The FBI denies the whole story.) Moreover, these devices are almost always located after crashes, even if not in useable condition (and the cleanup of the World Trade Center was meticulous, with even tiny bone fragments and bits of human tissue being discovered so that almost all the victims were ultimately identified). As Ted Lopatkiewicz, director of public affairs at the National Transportation Safety Agency which has the job of analyzing the boxes’ data, says, “It’s very unusual not to find a recorder after a crash, although it’s also very unusual to have jets flying into buildings.”


<snip>

What the apparent existence of the black boxes in government hands means is unclear.


If the information in those boxes is recoverable, or if, as is likely, it has been recovered already, it could give crucial evidence regarding the skill of the hijacker/pilots, perhaps of their strategy, of whether they were getting outside help in guiding them to their targets, of how fast they were flying and a host of other things.


Why would the main intelligence and law enforcement arm of the U.S. government want to hide from the public not just the available information about the two hijacked flights that provided the motivation and justification for the nation’s “War on Terror” and for its two wars against Afghanistan and Iraq, but even the fact that it has the devices which could contain that information? Conspiracy theories abound, with some claiming the planes were actually pilotless military aircraft, or that they had little or nothing to do with the building collapses. The easiest way to quash such rumors and such fevered thinking would be openness.


Instead we have the opposite: a dark secrecy that invites many questions regarding the potentially embarrassing or perhaps even sinister information that might be on those tapes.

you do know they wont watch the video or read the links right?lol
 
There was no conspiracy involved in the Titanic any more than there was one with the 9/11 attacks...
Just a few pages back one of them was saying that there were no planes involved.
Folks like you say, "nope, there are no conspiracies," but educated people know there are. So stop being obtuse and grow up. Now, as far as there not being any planes? I don't really know about that..

Candy never claimed "nope, there are no conspiracies" nor have I ever heard anyone say such a silly thing (except CT loons trying to explain their lunacy).

What she is trying to tell you is that not everything is a conspiracy ... that like most normal people, gov't officials and employees are far too busy living their lives - you know ... mowing the lawn, chasing sex, watching football - to create and perpetrate the elaborate schemes of your vivid imagination.

That after your years of "research" you still are not sure whether or not there were planes involved on 9/11 says all that anyone needs to know about the loons that pervaded your now defunct 9/11 CT Movement.

It is a real blessing to come across someone like you and some others here that know the things that I do and have taken the time to read and research. It is people like you that keeps me going even when I am being dogpiled on in other forums. I have a close knit group of truthers that are a part of my inner circle and we lean on each other and pass on information to each other. I look forward to learning what I can from you and I hope I am able to return the favor and that you might be able to take some of the things I have garnered and be of use to you as well. We are all in this together and it seems that the powers that be are doubling down on their efforts to bring about their totalitarian, feudalistic two class system of elites and serfs. I want you to know that there are "white hats" working on our behalf and there are inner- agency wars going on that the media never speaks of and what will help them is people waking up...that is the thankless job that you and a few others have here.

Indeed most CT loons are forced to seek out and "lean on" their "close knit group of truthers" because normal people ignore or ridicule the CT silliness.

Paranoia is treatable but you first must want to rejoin the rational.

I do find it amusing (but not surprising) that you think yourself some sort of superhero trying to save the world from evil.

:lmao:
Sayit sez???? "Listen to me you flammer of our gubermint...our gubermint loves us and has never lied to us due you here me due you? You due not love this republik for witches stands you traytor of this cunrtry....how dare you acurse our gubermint of laying to us...a curce upon you!!!!"

Seriously, punkinpuss....you are nothing but a bug on the windshield of life .....should we not be able to turn the tide and those that are left end up serving the collective? I will spare you a thought as you scratch your sloped skull when your little world is turned up on it's axis and you are sitting on the curb wonderin' "Where's da gubermint?" Don't fret, little man...there are millions of "I believe in Santa Claus" dumbfucks like you....you will have plenty of company to commiserate with....


disinfo agent sayit along with candyass is one of USMB's biggest paid trolls of them all-i put these two stupid fucks on ignore years ago-:trolls:
 
There was no conspiracy involved in the Titanic any more than there was one with the 9/11 attacks...
Just a few pages back one of them was saying that there were no planes involved.
Folks like you say, "nope, there are no conspiracies," but educated people know there are. So stop being obtuse and grow up. Now, as far as there not being any planes? I don't really know about that..

Candy never claimed "nope, there are no conspiracies" nor have I ever heard anyone say such a silly thing (except CT loons trying to explain their lunacy).

What she is trying to tell you is that not everything is a conspiracy ... that like most normal people, gov't officials and employees are far too busy living their lives - you know ... mowing the lawn, chasing sex, watching football - to create and perpetrate the elaborate schemes of your vivid imagination.

That after your years of "research" you still are not sure whether or not there were planes involved on 9/11 says all that anyone needs to know about the loons that pervaded your now defunct 9/11 CT Movement.

It is a real blessing to come across someone like you and some others here that know the things that I do and have taken the time to read and research. It is people like you that keeps me going even when I am being dogpiled on in other forums. I have a close knit group of truthers that are a part of my inner circle and we lean on each other and pass on information to each other. I look forward to learning what I can from you and I hope I am able to return the favor and that you might be able to take some of the things I have garnered and be of use to you as well. We are all in this together and it seems that the powers that be are doubling down on their efforts to bring about their totalitarian, feudalistic two class system of elites and serfs. I want you to know that there are "white hats" working on our behalf and there are inner- agency wars going on that the media never speaks of and what will help them is people waking up...that is the thankless job that you and a few others have here.

Indeed most CT loons are forced to seek out and "lean on" their "close knit group of truthers" because normal people ignore or ridicule the CT silliness.

Paranoia is treatable but you first must want to rejoin the rational.

I do find it amusing (but not surprising) that you think yourself some sort of superhero trying to save the world from evil.

:lmao:
Sayit sez???? "Listen to me you flammer of our gubermint...our gubermint loves us and has never lied to us due you here me due you? You due not love this republik for witches stands you traytor of this cunrtry....how dare you acurse our gubermint of laying to us...a curce upon you!!!!"

Seriously, punkinpuss....you are nothing but a bug on the windshield of life .....should we not be able to turn the tide and those that are left end up serving the collective? I will spare you a thought as you scratch your sloped skull when your little world is turned up on it's axis and you are sitting on the curb wonderin' "Where's da gubermint?" Don't fret, little man...there are millions of "I believe in Santa Claus" dumbfucks like you....you will have plenty of company to commiserate with....


disinfo agent sayit along with candyass is one of USMB's biggest paid trolls of them all-i put these two stupid fucks on ignore years ago-:trolls:

Laughing.......and right on cue, the Truthers insist that anyone who even *questions* their conspiracies must be part of an even more lubriciously complicated and factually baseless conspiracy.

Sigh.......you can't fix stupid.
 
It is a real blessing to come across someone like you and some others here that know the things that I do and have taken the time to read and research. It is people like you that keeps me going even when I am being dogpiled on in other forums. I have a close knit group of truthers that are a part of my inner circle and we lean on each other and pass on information to each other. I look forward to learning what I can from you and I hope I am able to return the favor and that you might be able to take some of the things I have garnered and be of use to you as well. We are all in this together and it seems that the powers that be are doubling down on their efforts to bring about their totalitarian, feudalistic two class system of elites and serfs. I want you to know that there are "white hats" working on our behalf and there are inner- agency wars going on that the media never speaks of and what will help them is people waking up...that is the thankless job that you and a few others have here.

I'm not real keen on the "us against them" paradigm.

I've heard the term, "white hats," before, and I'm not sure I like it.

Isn't it the elites that like to think in an "us against them" paradigm as well? Don't you think they actually believe they are doing the best thing for the planet?

Wasn't it Spock that said, "Then needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few?"

Or do you believe they are purposely setting about on a course of purposeful evil?



I've read that grandiose conspiracy stuff, and I am not sure I buy it.

I've specialized in political science at university. What we have here are nothing more than interest groups. Albeit, "clandestine interest groups." This is a classic example of folks that take Plato's Republic seriously.

And yet, they are NOT philosopher kings.

I have also lived and worked among the lower class. I've had friends that came from the slums, the hood and the trailer parks. Some have been extraordinarily gifted, others are exactly as written about in the Republic, in need of guidance by the educated classes.


So, in the final analysis, are these elite controllers doing these things for the good of the world's population or exclusively for their own gain? It is something we need to consider before we uniformly think in terms of an us vs. them paradigm.

I highly recommend the documentary by the great grandson of the founder of the Johnson and Johnson company "The One Percent." If nothing else, you find out the truth about Warren Buffett, and how he's not really such a nice guy.





You know, I search, do lots of research, and that is one of the few terms that never brings up anything meaningful. "Clandestine Interest Groups." It's sort of like trying to find out the name of China's intelligence agency, isn't it?

I did stumble across at least one of them. . . I don't think these folks want any press. . .

does anyone know if this website is real or fake : http://www.guilderberg.com/?

You need at least four million net worth to log into this forum. :badgrin:
Guilderberg | A Gathering of Distinguished Individuals - Dørene Er Åpnet

There is a FB page that is open to the public, it's pretty pedestrian.


Once into that site, I am sure there are other sites that don't even show up in google.


My son was invited to join a program at the local college for accelerated students at age eleven. Now mind you, FB has a policy that one needs to be thirteen to have an account on FB.

After he joined, they told him they had a private group on FB that didn't even show up in Google searches or FB searches that was only open to their students.

I'm like, WTF? He shouldn't even be on that site, none of them should be.

But that is the nature of clandestine interest groups. Does this mean the college or these kids have a "nefarious agenda?" No, it just means they don't want the public involved in what they do in any way.

If they can do it, then be sure, there are lots of other groups doing the same thing. I am also sure that the majority of them are doing it because they feel that the masses will just obstruct their functioning, and they feel they are doing what they are doing for the public good.


You will never be dog piled if you view those who are dog piling you as your friends, your family and your country men.

Everyone at USMB believes as they do for a reason. We all have interests, we need to recognize them. Why, in the final analysis, does the truth threaten these interests? Then you will understand why folks "dogpile."

Sometimes an uncomfortable lie is better than the sinister truth.

Having a close knit group of friends can lead to tunnel vision, guard yourself always, be open to the possibility that those who you believe are your enemies, may in fact, just be your misguided saviors.

I sometimes wonder if the tales of John Titor might have been true. What if 9/11 were all his fault? What if it hadn't been for him, we would have been in civil war and invaded by now? Who can say? Would that have been better?

At least our government would have been honest. But look at that world he was living in. . . .
 
I thought it was pretty obvious that what I wrote was in gest. Sorry you were not developed enough to realize it.

There was no conspiracy involved in the Titanic any more than there was one with the 9/11 attacks. The looney birds that sponsor such a fantasy have the same IQ as pea soup and any investigation of the subject matter would return any sober observer to the same conclusion.

Just a few pages back one of them was saying that there were no planes involved. It doesn't get any more batshit crazy than that.

Your case and your position is not made any stronger by your ad hominem. Folks like you say, "nope, there are no conspiracies," but educated people know there are. So stop being obtuse and grow up. 9 huge government conspiracies that actually happened




Now, as far as there not being any planes? I don't really know about that. I for one don't believe in that particular position, but I am not willing to condemn those who hold that position. Experts have said otherwise.

The following interview is of a fellow that is a known government disinfo agent. He worked with the government, and was instructed to go get the Iranian hostages, not releasing them a moment before Reagan was sworn in.

So can what he says be trusted? I don't know. I think he's pretty shady to say the least. He talks of little green men, E.T.'s and the like (not that those aren't real), so you sort of take it for what it's worth. OTH, he comes from an elite family that knows the inner workings of the SG, so there does seem to be a lot of info mixed in with disinfo. . . .



Who the hell are we to say there were planes? I don't simply know. Until they release to the public the black boxes, neither of us has any proof either way, do we? So any discussion of planes vs. no planes seems academic to me.

Why does the government not release to the public the flight data recorders if there were planes? What exactly are they hiding? In every other crash, they always release that data or at least the destroyed recorders. So what is the deal here? The government claims those recorders were destroyed, but no wreckage? Does it WANT to fuel such conspiracies?

Seems like it to me.:tinfoil:


The main reason I don't believe in the "no planes" theory is that the flight data recording devices WERE found, then the FBI took them, and told the folks that found them to shut up about finding them.

But why?

9/11: Missing Black Boxes in World Trade Center Attacks Found by Firefighters, Analyzed by NTSB, Concealed by FBI
9/11: Missing Black Boxes in World Trade Center Attacks Found by Firefighters, Analyzed by NTSB, Concealed by FBI
But the FBI states, and also reported to the 9-11 Commission, that none of the recording devices from the two planes that hit the World Trade Center were ever recovered.


There has always been some skepticism about this assertion, particularly as two N.Y. City firefighters, Mike Bellone and Nicholas De Masi, claimed in 2004 that they had found three of the four boxes, and that Federal agents took them and told the two men not to mention having found them. (The FBI denies the whole story.) Moreover, these devices are almost always located after crashes, even if not in useable condition (and the cleanup of the World Trade Center was meticulous, with even tiny bone fragments and bits of human tissue being discovered so that almost all the victims were ultimately identified). As Ted Lopatkiewicz, director of public affairs at the National Transportation Safety Agency which has the job of analyzing the boxes’ data, says, “It’s very unusual not to find a recorder after a crash, although it’s also very unusual to have jets flying into buildings.”


<snip>

What the apparent existence of the black boxes in government hands means is unclear.


If the information in those boxes is recoverable, or if, as is likely, it has been recovered already, it could give crucial evidence regarding the skill of the hijacker/pilots, perhaps of their strategy, of whether they were getting outside help in guiding them to their targets, of how fast they were flying and a host of other things.


Why would the main intelligence and law enforcement arm of the U.S. government want to hide from the public not just the available information about the two hijacked flights that provided the motivation and justification for the nation’s “War on Terror” and for its two wars against Afghanistan and Iraq, but even the fact that it has the devices which could contain that information? Conspiracy theories abound, with some claiming the planes were actually pilotless military aircraft, or that they had little or nothing to do with the building collapses. The easiest way to quash such rumors and such fevered thinking would be openness.


Instead we have the opposite: a dark secrecy that invites many questions regarding the potentially embarrassing or perhaps even sinister information that might be on those tapes.


9/11/01 happened for a litany of reasons and some of it has to do with some of the proceeds from the Black Eagle Trust (which was gold stolen from the Japanese that had buried it in the Philippines) some of this was used to buy up gas and oil futures when the Ruble collapsed in September of 1991. The Carlyle group piggybacked off of the currency swaps by Leo Wanta, who was commissioned by Ronald Reagan to take down the USSR's currency back in 1988. These were ten year securities that were to expire in September of 2001...only problem was that in order to authenticate the owners of these securities would require the Securities and Exchange Commission to process it and that posed a real problem. It was solved when the Federal Reserve bankers shut down the SEC due to 9/11 for two weeks thus allowing all trades to go through with no scrutiny. 240 billion dollars were able to fall into the hands of those that had used the stolen gold that made up of some of the Black Eagle Trust of gold stolen from the Japanese that they themselves had stolen.....just one of many reasons for 9/11/01. Cantor Fitzgerald was one of the groups that was used to authenticate ownership of said securities and were targeted on 9/11/01. They resided on the 82nd floor of WTC 1. Oddly enough, Edward Lansdale, one of the principles in getting the gold for the Black Eagle Trust was intimately involved in Kennedy's murder....truth is much stranger than fiction sometimes.



Wow! What a complete load of crap.
I really loved this.

Leo Wanta, who was commissioned by Ronald Reagan to take down the USSR's currency back in 1988.


The ruble in the USSR was not convertible, you stupid git.


My guess is you have no idea that the Leo Wanta scandal is the largest scandal in US history.

Unfortunately, I think 240 billion dollars is a pretty large underestimate of the amounts we're talking about. Reliable updates about the scandal largely disappear after Story was assassinated. But the amounts we're talking about exceed four trillion, some put it at over 25 trillion. Is it any wonder the world economy is a basket case?

As far as being a "stupid git?"

Who's the "stupid git?"
Soviet ruble - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Only a limited set of products could be freely bought, thus the ruble had a role similar to trading stamps or food stamps. The currency was not internationally exchangeable and its export was illegal.

Thanks. I love it when you idiots post proof of my claim.
Stupid git.


I'll agree with you, this is true for the common lay people.

However, this is NOT TRUE FOR GOVERNMENTS.

How do you think the Soviets bought commodities on the world market? Seriously.


Why do you think wiki listed a conversion table?
 
Your case and your position is not made any stronger by your ad hominem. Folks like you say, "nope, there are no conspiracies," but educated people know there are. So stop being obtuse and grow up. 9 huge government conspiracies that actually happened




Now, as far as there not being any planes? I don't really know about that. I for one don't believe in that particular position, but I am not willing to condemn those who hold that position. Experts have said otherwise.

The following interview is of a fellow that is a known government disinfo agent. He worked with the government, and was instructed to go get the Iranian hostages, not releasing them a moment before Reagan was sworn in.

So can what he says be trusted? I don't know. I think he's pretty shady to say the least. He talks of little green men, E.T.'s and the like (not that those aren't real), so you sort of take it for what it's worth. OTH, he comes from an elite family that knows the inner workings of the SG, so there does seem to be a lot of info mixed in with disinfo. . . .



Who the hell are we to say there were planes? I don't simply know. Until they release to the public the black boxes, neither of us has any proof either way, do we? So any discussion of planes vs. no planes seems academic to me.

Why does the government not release to the public the flight data recorders if there were planes? What exactly are they hiding? In every other crash, they always release that data or at least the destroyed recorders. So what is the deal here? The government claims those recorders were destroyed, but no wreckage? Does it WANT to fuel such conspiracies?

Seems like it to me.:tinfoil:


The main reason I don't believe in the "no planes" theory is that the flight data recording devices WERE found, then the FBI took them, and told the folks that found them to shut up about finding them.

But why?

9/11: Missing Black Boxes in World Trade Center Attacks Found by Firefighters, Analyzed by NTSB, Concealed by FBI
9/11: Missing Black Boxes in World Trade Center Attacks Found by Firefighters, Analyzed by NTSB, Concealed by FBI
But the FBI states, and also reported to the 9-11 Commission, that none of the recording devices from the two planes that hit the World Trade Center were ever recovered.


There has always been some skepticism about this assertion, particularly as two N.Y. City firefighters, Mike Bellone and Nicholas De Masi, claimed in 2004 that they had found three of the four boxes, and that Federal agents took them and told the two men not to mention having found them. (The FBI denies the whole story.) Moreover, these devices are almost always located after crashes, even if not in useable condition (and the cleanup of the World Trade Center was meticulous, with even tiny bone fragments and bits of human tissue being discovered so that almost all the victims were ultimately identified). As Ted Lopatkiewicz, director of public affairs at the National Transportation Safety Agency which has the job of analyzing the boxes’ data, says, “It’s very unusual not to find a recorder after a crash, although it’s also very unusual to have jets flying into buildings.”


<snip>

What the apparent existence of the black boxes in government hands means is unclear.


If the information in those boxes is recoverable, or if, as is likely, it has been recovered already, it could give crucial evidence regarding the skill of the hijacker/pilots, perhaps of their strategy, of whether they were getting outside help in guiding them to their targets, of how fast they were flying and a host of other things.


Why would the main intelligence and law enforcement arm of the U.S. government want to hide from the public not just the available information about the two hijacked flights that provided the motivation and justification for the nation’s “War on Terror” and for its two wars against Afghanistan and Iraq, but even the fact that it has the devices which could contain that information? Conspiracy theories abound, with some claiming the planes were actually pilotless military aircraft, or that they had little or nothing to do with the building collapses. The easiest way to quash such rumors and such fevered thinking would be openness.


Instead we have the opposite: a dark secrecy that invites many questions regarding the potentially embarrassing or perhaps even sinister information that might be on those tapes.


9/11/01 happened for a litany of reasons and some of it has to do with some of the proceeds from the Black Eagle Trust (which was gold stolen from the Japanese that had buried it in the Philippines) some of this was used to buy up gas and oil futures when the Ruble collapsed in September of 1991. The Carlyle group piggybacked off of the currency swaps by Leo Wanta, who was commissioned by Ronald Reagan to take down the USSR's currency back in 1988. These were ten year securities that were to expire in September of 2001...only problem was that in order to authenticate the owners of these securities would require the Securities and Exchange Commission to process it and that posed a real problem. It was solved when the Federal Reserve bankers shut down the SEC due to 9/11 for two weeks thus allowing all trades to go through with no scrutiny. 240 billion dollars were able to fall into the hands of those that had used the stolen gold that made up of some of the Black Eagle Trust of gold stolen from the Japanese that they themselves had stolen.....just one of many reasons for 9/11/01. Cantor Fitzgerald was one of the groups that was used to authenticate ownership of said securities and were targeted on 9/11/01. They resided on the 82nd floor of WTC 1. Oddly enough, Edward Lansdale, one of the principles in getting the gold for the Black Eagle Trust was intimately involved in Kennedy's murder....truth is much stranger than fiction sometimes.



Wow! What a complete load of crap.
I really loved this.

Leo Wanta, who was commissioned by Ronald Reagan to take down the USSR's currency back in 1988.


The ruble in the USSR was not convertible, you stupid git.


My guess is you have no idea that the Leo Wanta scandal is the largest scandal in US history.

Unfortunately, I think 240 billion dollars is a pretty large underestimate of the amounts we're talking about. Reliable updates about the scandal largely disappear after Story was assassinated. But the amounts we're talking about exceed four trillion, some put it at over 25 trillion. Is it any wonder the world economy is a basket case?

As far as being a "stupid git?"

Who's the "stupid git?"
Soviet ruble - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Only a limited set of products could be freely bought, thus the ruble had a role similar to trading stamps or food stamps. The currency was not internationally exchangeable and its export was illegal.

Thanks. I love it when you idiots post proof of my claim.
Stupid git.


I'll agree with you, this is true for the common lay people.

However, this is NOT TRUE FOR GOVERNMENTS.

How do you think the Soviets bought commodities on the world market? Seriously.


The issues you're bringing up are irrelevant. As no conversion is necessary to sell commodities. If Russia sold, say, a million barrels of oil in exchange for 50 million dollars, they have 50 million in hard currency that they could buy goods with for import. And pay for them in dollars.

Thus the exchange is:

Export commodities for dollars.

Dollars for import commodities.


The ruble never need play any role at all. As the ruble wasn't a freely convertible currency in the Soviet Era, the sale of commodities on the world market in dollars was essentially the only way that the Soviet Union could get hard currency. Rubles were intra-Union. They played little to no role outside it.

Making the 'crush the Ruble' narrative a silly one. It would be like trying to 'crush' the exchange rate of Chucky Cheese tickets for stuffed animals. It just makes no sense.
 
Last edited:
The titanic was an inside job too. Take a piece of ice. Hit it with a metal hammer. What breaks. The ice? Or the Hammer? The Titanic was made of steel...it should have broken the ice the same way.....

Easy
Peasy
Japanesee


. . . And to this day, the powerful men that did not want the Federal Reserve, the ones that could have prevented the booms and the busts, the ones that could have prevented the bubbles and the currency wars, the dollar devaluation and all the endless senseless wars in the name of the global banking cabal, went down on that ship.

Now, tax day is the same day that the ship went down.

Remember that next time you have to file your tax forms.
jesuits-300x296.jpg

"Necessary to their plans, the Federal Reserve did have some opposition; those who saw what the future would become if banking was outside of the government’s hands, the rates set by a private company such as the Fed. All the wealthy and powerful men the Jesuits wanted to get rid of were invited to take the cruise. Three of the richest and most important of these were Benjamin Guggenheim, Isador Strauss, the head of Macy’s Department Stores, and John Jacob Astor, probably the wealthiest man in the world. Their total wealth, at that time, using dollar values of their day was more than 500 million dollars. Today that amount of money would be worth nearly eleven billion dollars. These three men were coaxed and encouraged to board the floating palace. They had to be destroyed because the Jesuits knew they would use their wealth and influence to oppose a Federal Reserve Bank as well as the various wars that were being planned.


It can also be mentioned that J.P. Morgan, the individual contracted to build the Titanic was scheduled to be on the maiden voyage, but canceled.


Supporters of the idea that the Titanic shipwreck was orchestrated carefully, a Jesuit tempore co-adjutor was picked to captain the ship, a man that would do anything for the order and God’s will; Captain Edward Smith. Quite possibly the most experienced captain of the time, Smith had navigated the waters of the Atlantic for 26 years, a master of the icy waters that the Titanic would be sailing. He was a Jesuit and worked for J.P. Morgan. As National Geographic stated in their 1986 documentary entitilted ‘The Secrets of the Titanic,’ “Anyone could be a Jesuit and their identity not be known.”"
Titanic Conspiracy and The Jesuits - RMS Titanic Article

The only time reality is stranger than fiction is when the minds of men are acting and reacting to make it so.

Insane Coincidences – The “Titanic” Disaster Story

5 Titanic Coincidences That Prove Reality is Stranger than Fiction

I find it unbelievable how malleable the minds of people are today. The government schools have made them so willing to accept what ever paradigm the establishment media cartels will whore out to them.

I suppose that is easier than the horror of facing the truth. That they have done this to us before is a good predictor that folks will love falling for the drama again. I'm sure when they aren't paying attention, or are bored, or aren't willing to do the elites bidding, they will sell us more drama. Just look at San Bernardino or Paris.



No one is saying the Titanic didn't sink or that it wasn't an Iceberg.

Don't be so simple minded. Get off your knees and stop accepting the narratives you are told w/o question.


I thought it was pretty obvious that what I wrote was in gest. Sorry you were not developed enough to realize it.

There was no conspiracy involved in the Titanic any more than there was one with the 9/11 attacks. The looney birds that sponsor such a fantasy have the same IQ as pea soup and any investigation of the subject matter would return any sober observer to the same conclusion.

Just a few pages back one of them was saying that there were no planes involved. It doesn't get any more batshit crazy than that.


Your case and your position is not made any stronger by your ad hominem. Folks like you say, "nope, there are no conspiracies," but educated people know there are. So stop being obtuse and grow up. 9 huge government conspiracies that actually happened




Now, as far as there not being any planes? I don't really know about that. I for one don't believe in that particular position, but I am not willing to condemn those who hold that position. Experts have said otherwise.

The following interview is of a fellow that is a known government disinfo agent. He worked with the government, and was instructed to go get the Iranian hostages, not releasing them a moment before Reagan was sworn in.

So can what he says be trusted? I don't know. I think he's pretty shady to say the least. He talks of little green men, E.T.'s and the like (not that those aren't real), so you sort of take it for what it's worth. OTH, he comes from an elite family that knows the inner workings of the SG, so there does seem to be a lot of info mixed in with disinfo. . . .



Who the hell are we to say there were planes? I don't simply know. Until they release to the public the black boxes, neither of us has any proof either way, do we? So any discussion of planes vs. no planes seems academic to me.

Why does the government not release to the public the flight data recorders if there were planes? What exactly are they hiding? In every other crash, they always release that data or at least the destroyed recorders. So what is the deal here? The government claims those recorders were destroyed, but no wreckage? Does it WANT to fuel such conspiracies?

Seems like it to me.:tinfoil:


The main reason I don't believe in the "no planes" theory is that the flight data recording devices WERE found, then the FBI took them, and told the folks that found them to shut up about finding them.

But why?

9/11: Missing Black Boxes in World Trade Center Attacks Found by Firefighters, Analyzed by NTSB, Concealed by FBI
9/11: Missing Black Boxes in World Trade Center Attacks Found by Firefighters, Analyzed by NTSB, Concealed by FBI
But the FBI states, and also reported to the 9-11 Commission, that none of the recording devices from the two planes that hit the World Trade Center were ever recovered.


There has always been some skepticism about this assertion, particularly as two N.Y. City firefighters, Mike Bellone and Nicholas De Masi, claimed in 2004 that they had found three of the four boxes, and that Federal agents took them and told the two men not to mention having found them. (The FBI denies the whole story.) Moreover, these devices are almost always located after crashes, even if not in useable condition (and the cleanup of the World Trade Center was meticulous, with even tiny bone fragments and bits of human tissue being discovered so that almost all the victims were ultimately identified). As Ted Lopatkiewicz, director of public affairs at the National Transportation Safety Agency which has the job of analyzing the boxes’ data, says, “It’s very unusual not to find a recorder after a crash, although it’s also very unusual to have jets flying into buildings.”


<snip>

What the apparent existence of the black boxes in government hands means is unclear.


If the information in those boxes is recoverable, or if, as is likely, it has been recovered already, it could give crucial evidence regarding the skill of the hijacker/pilots, perhaps of their strategy, of whether they were getting outside help in guiding them to their targets, of how fast they were flying and a host of other things.


Why would the main intelligence and law enforcement arm of the U.S. government want to hide from the public not just the available information about the two hijacked flights that provided the motivation and justification for the nation’s “War on Terror” and for its two wars against Afghanistan and Iraq, but even the fact that it has the devices which could contain that information? Conspiracy theories abound, with some claiming the planes were actually pilotless military aircraft, or that they had little or nothing to do with the building collapses. The easiest way to quash such rumors and such fevered thinking would be openness.


Instead we have the opposite: a dark secrecy that invites many questions regarding the potentially embarrassing or perhaps even sinister information that might be on those tapes.


So......the current truther conspiracy is that there were no planes at all?

Holy shit. That takes 'batshit' to a whole new level.


Yeah, I'd have to say so.

But I really couldn't tell you, and frankly, I don't care.

One would have to be supremely obtuse to believe that planes took down those buildings, so what does it matter?

One would also have to be supremely obtuse to believe that every technology that the US government or the shadow government has available to it's use is going to be available or known about in the popular press. One would think that there is no such thing as top secret technologies, is that it?

So just because the MSM never before Sept. 11, 2001 covered drone controlled airplanes, or holographic imaging, well, then it is completely out of the realm of possibility, it that it? smh Whether I believe the no planes hypothesis in not the point, it is just a simple fact, expert pilots will tell you that such a maneuver is statistically a near impossible stunt to pull off. And twice within the time frame it was done?

Nor does any of this explain the lack of wreckage. Etc. I'm not saying I believe this hypothesis, I'm just saying, I've heard it, and there are some unexplained questions. If one can't intelligently discuss something with out inflammatory remarks and acting like a five year old, some hasn't done the research.


I will never understand why discussions of this manner have to be adversarial. Why can't folks discuss this in an adult manner with out the ad hominem and derogatory name calling? Is it because folks world views and interests rely on their POV's not being challenged?
 
Your case and your position is not made any stronger by your ad hominem. Folks like you say, "nope, there are no conspiracies," but educated people know there are. So stop being obtuse and grow up. 9 huge government conspiracies that actually happened




Now, as far as there not being any planes? I don't really know about that. I for one don't believe in that particular position, but I am not willing to condemn those who hold that position. Experts have said otherwise.

The following interview is of a fellow that is a known government disinfo agent. He worked with the government, and was instructed to go get the Iranian hostages, not releasing them a moment before Reagan was sworn in.

So can what he says be trusted? I don't know. I think he's pretty shady to say the least. He talks of little green men, E.T.'s and the like (not that those aren't real), so you sort of take it for what it's worth. OTH, he comes from an elite family that knows the inner workings of the SG, so there does seem to be a lot of info mixed in with disinfo. . . .



Who the hell are we to say there were planes? I don't simply know. Until they release to the public the black boxes, neither of us has any proof either way, do we? So any discussion of planes vs. no planes seems academic to me.

Why does the government not release to the public the flight data recorders if there were planes? What exactly are they hiding? In every other crash, they always release that data or at least the destroyed recorders. So what is the deal here? The government claims those recorders were destroyed, but no wreckage? Does it WANT to fuel such conspiracies?

Seems like it to me.:tinfoil:


The main reason I don't believe in the "no planes" theory is that the flight data recording devices WERE found, then the FBI took them, and told the folks that found them to shut up about finding them.

But why?

9/11: Missing Black Boxes in World Trade Center Attacks Found by Firefighters, Analyzed by NTSB, Concealed by FBI
9/11: Missing Black Boxes in World Trade Center Attacks Found by Firefighters, Analyzed by NTSB, Concealed by FBI
But the FBI states, and also reported to the 9-11 Commission, that none of the recording devices from the two planes that hit the World Trade Center were ever recovered.


There has always been some skepticism about this assertion, particularly as two N.Y. City firefighters, Mike Bellone and Nicholas De Masi, claimed in 2004 that they had found three of the four boxes, and that Federal agents took them and told the two men not to mention having found them. (The FBI denies the whole story.) Moreover, these devices are almost always located after crashes, even if not in useable condition (and the cleanup of the World Trade Center was meticulous, with even tiny bone fragments and bits of human tissue being discovered so that almost all the victims were ultimately identified). As Ted Lopatkiewicz, director of public affairs at the National Transportation Safety Agency which has the job of analyzing the boxes’ data, says, “It’s very unusual not to find a recorder after a crash, although it’s also very unusual to have jets flying into buildings.”


<snip>

What the apparent existence of the black boxes in government hands means is unclear.


If the information in those boxes is recoverable, or if, as is likely, it has been recovered already, it could give crucial evidence regarding the skill of the hijacker/pilots, perhaps of their strategy, of whether they were getting outside help in guiding them to their targets, of how fast they were flying and a host of other things.


Why would the main intelligence and law enforcement arm of the U.S. government want to hide from the public not just the available information about the two hijacked flights that provided the motivation and justification for the nation’s “War on Terror” and for its two wars against Afghanistan and Iraq, but even the fact that it has the devices which could contain that information? Conspiracy theories abound, with some claiming the planes were actually pilotless military aircraft, or that they had little or nothing to do with the building collapses. The easiest way to quash such rumors and such fevered thinking would be openness.


Instead we have the opposite: a dark secrecy that invites many questions regarding the potentially embarrassing or perhaps even sinister information that might be on those tapes.


9/11/01 happened for a litany of reasons and some of it has to do with some of the proceeds from the Black Eagle Trust (which was gold stolen from the Japanese that had buried it in the Philippines) some of this was used to buy up gas and oil futures when the Ruble collapsed in September of 1991. The Carlyle group piggybacked off of the currency swaps by Leo Wanta, who was commissioned by Ronald Reagan to take down the USSR's currency back in 1988. These were ten year securities that were to expire in September of 2001...only problem was that in order to authenticate the owners of these securities would require the Securities and Exchange Commission to process it and that posed a real problem. It was solved when the Federal Reserve bankers shut down the SEC due to 9/11 for two weeks thus allowing all trades to go through with no scrutiny. 240 billion dollars were able to fall into the hands of those that had used the stolen gold that made up of some of the Black Eagle Trust of gold stolen from the Japanese that they themselves had stolen.....just one of many reasons for 9/11/01. Cantor Fitzgerald was one of the groups that was used to authenticate ownership of said securities and were targeted on 9/11/01. They resided on the 82nd floor of WTC 1. Oddly enough, Edward Lansdale, one of the principles in getting the gold for the Black Eagle Trust was intimately involved in Kennedy's murder....truth is much stranger than fiction sometimes.



Wow! What a complete load of crap.
I really loved this.

Leo Wanta, who was commissioned by Ronald Reagan to take down the USSR's currency back in 1988.


The ruble in the USSR was not convertible, you stupid git.


My guess is you have no idea that the Leo Wanta scandal is the largest scandal in US history.

Unfortunately, I think 240 billion dollars is a pretty large underestimate of the amounts we're talking about. Reliable updates about the scandal largely disappear after Story was assassinated. But the amounts we're talking about exceed four trillion, some put it at over 25 trillion. Is it any wonder the world economy is a basket case?

As far as being a "stupid git?"

Who's the "stupid git?"
Soviet ruble - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Only a limited set of products could be freely bought, thus the ruble had a role similar to trading stamps or food stamps. The currency was not internationally exchangeable and its export was illegal.

Thanks. I love it when you idiots post proof of my claim.
Stupid git.


I'll agree with you, this is true for the common lay people.

However, this is NOT TRUE FOR GOVERNMENTS.

How do you think the Soviets bought commodities on the world market? Seriously.


Why do you think wiki listed a conversion table?


How do you think the Soviets bought commodities on the world market?

They used dollars or marks or francs or pounds.

Why do you think wiki listed a conversion table?

Because that's what the Commies said the rubles were worth. Even though they weren't convertible.
 
The titanic was an inside job too. Take a piece of ice. Hit it with a metal hammer. What breaks. The ice? Or the Hammer? The Titanic was made of steel...it should have broken the ice the same way.....

Easy
Peasy
Japanesee


. . . And to this day, the powerful men that did not want the Federal Reserve, the ones that could have prevented the booms and the busts, the ones that could have prevented the bubbles and the currency wars, the dollar devaluation and all the endless senseless wars in the name of the global banking cabal, went down on that ship.

Now, tax day is the same day that the ship went down.

Remember that next time you have to file your tax forms.
jesuits-300x296.jpg

"Necessary to their plans, the Federal Reserve did have some opposition; those who saw what the future would become if banking was outside of the government’s hands, the rates set by a private company such as the Fed. All the wealthy and powerful men the Jesuits wanted to get rid of were invited to take the cruise. Three of the richest and most important of these were Benjamin Guggenheim, Isador Strauss, the head of Macy’s Department Stores, and John Jacob Astor, probably the wealthiest man in the world. Their total wealth, at that time, using dollar values of their day was more than 500 million dollars. Today that amount of money would be worth nearly eleven billion dollars. These three men were coaxed and encouraged to board the floating palace. They had to be destroyed because the Jesuits knew they would use their wealth and influence to oppose a Federal Reserve Bank as well as the various wars that were being planned.


It can also be mentioned that J.P. Morgan, the individual contracted to build the Titanic was scheduled to be on the maiden voyage, but canceled.


Supporters of the idea that the Titanic shipwreck was orchestrated carefully, a Jesuit tempore co-adjutor was picked to captain the ship, a man that would do anything for the order and God’s will; Captain Edward Smith. Quite possibly the most experienced captain of the time, Smith had navigated the waters of the Atlantic for 26 years, a master of the icy waters that the Titanic would be sailing. He was a Jesuit and worked for J.P. Morgan. As National Geographic stated in their 1986 documentary entitilted ‘The Secrets of the Titanic,’ “Anyone could be a Jesuit and their identity not be known.”"
Titanic Conspiracy and The Jesuits - RMS Titanic Article

The only time reality is stranger than fiction is when the minds of men are acting and reacting to make it so.

Insane Coincidences – The “Titanic” Disaster Story

5 Titanic Coincidences That Prove Reality is Stranger than Fiction

I find it unbelievable how malleable the minds of people are today. The government schools have made them so willing to accept what ever paradigm the establishment media cartels will whore out to them.

I suppose that is easier than the horror of facing the truth. That they have done this to us before is a good predictor that folks will love falling for the drama again. I'm sure when they aren't paying attention, or are bored, or aren't willing to do the elites bidding, they will sell us more drama. Just look at San Bernardino or Paris.



No one is saying the Titanic didn't sink or that it wasn't an Iceberg.

Don't be so simple minded. Get off your knees and stop accepting the narratives you are told w/o question.


I thought it was pretty obvious that what I wrote was in gest. Sorry you were not developed enough to realize it.

There was no conspiracy involved in the Titanic any more than there was one with the 9/11 attacks. The looney birds that sponsor such a fantasy have the same IQ as pea soup and any investigation of the subject matter would return any sober observer to the same conclusion.

Just a few pages back one of them was saying that there were no planes involved. It doesn't get any more batshit crazy than that.


Your case and your position is not made any stronger by your ad hominem. Folks like you say, "nope, there are no conspiracies," but educated people know there are. So stop being obtuse and grow up. 9 huge government conspiracies that actually happened




Now, as far as there not being any planes? I don't really know about that. I for one don't believe in that particular position, but I am not willing to condemn those who hold that position. Experts have said otherwise.

The following interview is of a fellow that is a known government disinfo agent. He worked with the government, and was instructed to go get the Iranian hostages, not releasing them a moment before Reagan was sworn in.

So can what he says be trusted? I don't know. I think he's pretty shady to say the least. He talks of little green men, E.T.'s and the like (not that those aren't real), so you sort of take it for what it's worth. OTH, he comes from an elite family that knows the inner workings of the SG, so there does seem to be a lot of info mixed in with disinfo. . . .



Who the hell are we to say there were planes? I don't simply know. Until they release to the public the black boxes, neither of us has any proof either way, do we? So any discussion of planes vs. no planes seems academic to me.

Why does the government not release to the public the flight data recorders if there were planes? What exactly are they hiding? In every other crash, they always release that data or at least the destroyed recorders. So what is the deal here? The government claims those recorders were destroyed, but no wreckage? Does it WANT to fuel such conspiracies?

Seems like it to me.:tinfoil:


The main reason I don't believe in the "no planes" theory is that the flight data recording devices WERE found, then the FBI took them, and told the folks that found them to shut up about finding them.

But why?

9/11: Missing Black Boxes in World Trade Center Attacks Found by Firefighters, Analyzed by NTSB, Concealed by FBI
9/11: Missing Black Boxes in World Trade Center Attacks Found by Firefighters, Analyzed by NTSB, Concealed by FBI
But the FBI states, and also reported to the 9-11 Commission, that none of the recording devices from the two planes that hit the World Trade Center were ever recovered.


There has always been some skepticism about this assertion, particularly as two N.Y. City firefighters, Mike Bellone and Nicholas De Masi, claimed in 2004 that they had found three of the four boxes, and that Federal agents took them and told the two men not to mention having found them. (The FBI denies the whole story.) Moreover, these devices are almost always located after crashes, even if not in useable condition (and the cleanup of the World Trade Center was meticulous, with even tiny bone fragments and bits of human tissue being discovered so that almost all the victims were ultimately identified). As Ted Lopatkiewicz, director of public affairs at the National Transportation Safety Agency which has the job of analyzing the boxes’ data, says, “It’s very unusual not to find a recorder after a crash, although it’s also very unusual to have jets flying into buildings.”


<snip>

What the apparent existence of the black boxes in government hands means is unclear.


If the information in those boxes is recoverable, or if, as is likely, it has been recovered already, it could give crucial evidence regarding the skill of the hijacker/pilots, perhaps of their strategy, of whether they were getting outside help in guiding them to their targets, of how fast they were flying and a host of other things.


Why would the main intelligence and law enforcement arm of the U.S. government want to hide from the public not just the available information about the two hijacked flights that provided the motivation and justification for the nation’s “War on Terror” and for its two wars against Afghanistan and Iraq, but even the fact that it has the devices which could contain that information? Conspiracy theories abound, with some claiming the planes were actually pilotless military aircraft, or that they had little or nothing to do with the building collapses. The easiest way to quash such rumors and such fevered thinking would be openness.


Instead we have the opposite: a dark secrecy that invites many questions regarding the potentially embarrassing or perhaps even sinister information that might be on those tapes.

you do know they wont watch the video or read the links right?lol


Go here;

Alexa Top 500 Global Sites

I post for the public, and a post for those interested in the truth.

I care not about those whose world view is clutching to a fiat currency and the boom/bust let's make war on the planet paradigm.

When I left the last forum I was at in 2012, I used Alexa and other analytics to decide to come here. Mostly because at the time, this site was doing well. I haven't analyzed it's performance since then. I don't care. I've grown attached.

I like everyone, whether they agree with me, or disagree with me.

Can you HONESTLY say you don't miss SFC OLLIE?


I do. Nice old chap. And honest. I hope where ever he went to, he is still alive and kicking.

I have nothing personally against any of those who disagree with my POV. As a matter of fact, their POV is much like many of my family members. Do I harbor ill will toward my own family and friends? Of course not. And I full well know my own family are not, "paid government shills." :lol:

We can't be expected to be treated seriously and with respect unless we treat those with whom we interact with by the same standards.

You read their links and watch their videos, right?

If they ever post any. . . . .

But they don't. Mostly because there is nothing to that side of the elite ruse but ad hominem and snow job at this point.

And to the few we suspect of being paid disinfo agents, well, it's easy enough to just ignore that, isn't it?
 
There was no conspiracy involved in the Titanic any more than there was one with the 9/11 attacks...
Just a few pages back one of them was saying that there were no planes involved.
Folks like you say, "nope, there are no conspiracies," but educated people know there are. So stop being obtuse and grow up. Now, as far as there not being any planes? I don't really know about that..

Candy never claimed "nope, there are no conspiracies" nor have I ever heard anyone say such a silly thing (except CT loons trying to explain their lunacy).

What she is trying to tell you is that not everything is a conspiracy ... that like most normal people, gov't officials and employees are far too busy living their lives - you know ... mowing the lawn, chasing sex, watching football - to create and perpetrate the elaborate schemes of your vivid imagination.

That after your years of "research" you still are not sure whether or not there were planes involved on 9/11 says all that anyone needs to know about the loons that pervaded your now defunct 9/11 CT Movement.

It is a real blessing to come across someone like you and some others here that know the things that I do and have taken the time to read and research. It is people like you that keeps me going even when I am being dogpiled on in other forums. I have a close knit group of truthers that are a part of my inner circle and we lean on each other and pass on information to each other. I look forward to learning what I can from you and I hope I am able to return the favor and that you might be able to take some of the things I have garnered and be of use to you as well. We are all in this together and it seems that the powers that be are doubling down on their efforts to bring about their totalitarian, feudalistic two class system of elites and serfs. I want you to know that there are "white hats" working on our behalf and there are inner- agency wars going on that the media never speaks of and what will help them is people waking up...that is the thankless job that you and a few others have here.

Indeed most CT loons are forced to seek out and "lean on" their "close knit group of truthers" because normal people ignore or ridicule the CT silliness.

Paranoia is treatable but you first must want to rejoin the rational.

I do find it amusing (but not surprising) that you think yourself some sort of superhero trying to save the world from evil.

:lmao:
Sayit sez???? "Listen to me you flammer of our gubermint...our gubermint loves us and has never lied to us due you here me due you? You due not love this republik for witches stands you traytor of this cunrtry....how dare you acurse our gubermint of laying to us...a curce upon you!!!!"

Seriously, punkinpuss....you are nothing but a bug on the windshield of life .....should we not be able to turn the tide and those that are left end up serving the collective? I will spare you a thought as you scratch your sloped skull when your little world is turned up on it's axis and you are sitting on the curb wonderin' "Where's da gubermint?" Don't fret, little man...there are millions of "I believe in Santa Claus" dumbfucks like you....you will have plenty of company to commiserate with....


disinfo agent sayit along with candyass is one of USMB's biggest paid trolls of them all-i put these two stupid fucks on ignore years ago-:trolls:


I'll agree with you on SAYIT, as his position on issues changes with the wind. His posting and postions will conform to what ever new administration comes into office next year.

Candy OTH. . .

Though CandyACORN I believe is a grass roots paid partisan poster who really just watches too much TV. She is just innocent and idealistic. One day someone might reach her, I'm not sure she is in any way connected to the intel establishment. One has to love her idealism for what it is, she posts out of a genuine love for humanity, she really does. I understand her POV and the interests that motivate her.
 
There was no conspiracy involved in the Titanic any more than there was one with the 9/11 attacks...
Just a few pages back one of them was saying that there were no planes involved.
Folks like you say, "nope, there are no conspiracies," but educated people know there are. So stop being obtuse and grow up. Now, as far as there not being any planes? I don't really know about that..

Candy never claimed "nope, there are no conspiracies" nor have I ever heard anyone say such a silly thing (except CT loons trying to explain their lunacy).

What she is trying to tell you is that not everything is a conspiracy ... that like most normal people, gov't officials and employees are far too busy living their lives - you know ... mowing the lawn, chasing sex, watching football - to create and perpetrate the elaborate schemes of your vivid imagination.

That after your years of "research" you still are not sure whether or not there were planes involved on 9/11 says all that anyone needs to know about the loons that pervaded your now defunct 9/11 CT Movement.

It is a real blessing to come across someone like you and some others here that know the things that I do and have taken the time to read and research. It is people like you that keeps me going even when I am being dogpiled on in other forums. I have a close knit group of truthers that are a part of my inner circle and we lean on each other and pass on information to each other. I look forward to learning what I can from you and I hope I am able to return the favor and that you might be able to take some of the things I have garnered and be of use to you as well. We are all in this together and it seems that the powers that be are doubling down on their efforts to bring about their totalitarian, feudalistic two class system of elites and serfs. I want you to know that there are "white hats" working on our behalf and there are inner- agency wars going on that the media never speaks of and what will help them is people waking up...that is the thankless job that you and a few others have here.

Indeed most CT loons are forced to seek out and "lean on" their "close knit group of truthers" because normal people ignore or ridicule the CT silliness.

Paranoia is treatable but you first must want to rejoin the rational.

I do find it amusing (but not surprising) that you think yourself some sort of superhero trying to save the world from evil.

:lmao:
Sayit sez???? "Listen to me you flammer of our gubermint...our gubermint loves us and has never lied to us due you here me due you? You due not love this republik for witches stands you traytor of this cunrtry....how dare you acurse our gubermint of laying to us...a curce upon you!!!!"

Seriously, punkinpuss....you are nothing but a bug on the windshield of life .....should we not be able to turn the tide and those that are left end up serving the collective? I will spare you a thought as you scratch your sloped skull when your little world is turned up on it's axis and you are sitting on the curb wonderin' "Where's da gubermint?" Don't fret, little man...there are millions of "I believe in Santa Claus" dumbfucks like you....you will have plenty of company to commiserate with....


disinfo agent sayit along with candyass is one of USMB's biggest paid trolls of them all-i put these two stupid fucks on ignore years ago-:trolls:

Laughing.......and right on cue, the Truthers insist that anyone who even *questions* their conspiracies must be part of an even more lubriciously complicated and factually baseless conspiracy.

Sigh.......you can't fix stupid.

I don't think it's "stupid." It's exasperation.

. . . . and it is well known that some forums have certain members, or alternate handles that run interferrence for trolls, cranks, and nutters. It is just how the business works.

Likewise, it is common knowledge among folks that study government (I can give you a link if you wanted to bother reading it,) that the intel community pays folks to go into social media to influence the way people think and communicate.

Not only does the government do this, but partisan groups do this as well. Naturally, the people most paranoid of posters with an agenda. . . . or should I say, most aware of folks with an agenda, or those that study this issue.


That said, I think that is a smaller percentage of the posters. Likewise, if one suspects a poster of being such a troll, why would one bother getting one's panties in a bunch over it?
 
The titanic was an inside job too. Take a piece of ice. Hit it with a metal hammer. What breaks. The ice? Or the Hammer? The Titanic was made of steel...it should have broken the ice the same way.....

Easy
Peasy
Japanesee


. . . And to this day, the powerful men that did not want the Federal Reserve, the ones that could have prevented the booms and the busts, the ones that could have prevented the bubbles and the currency wars, the dollar devaluation and all the endless senseless wars in the name of the global banking cabal, went down on that ship.

Now, tax day is the same day that the ship went down.

Remember that next time you have to file your tax forms.
jesuits-300x296.jpg

"Necessary to their plans, the Federal Reserve did have some opposition; those who saw what the future would become if banking was outside of the government’s hands, the rates set by a private company such as the Fed. All the wealthy and powerful men the Jesuits wanted to get rid of were invited to take the cruise. Three of the richest and most important of these were Benjamin Guggenheim, Isador Strauss, the head of Macy’s Department Stores, and John Jacob Astor, probably the wealthiest man in the world. Their total wealth, at that time, using dollar values of their day was more than 500 million dollars. Today that amount of money would be worth nearly eleven billion dollars. These three men were coaxed and encouraged to board the floating palace. They had to be destroyed because the Jesuits knew they would use their wealth and influence to oppose a Federal Reserve Bank as well as the various wars that were being planned.


It can also be mentioned that J.P. Morgan, the individual contracted to build the Titanic was scheduled to be on the maiden voyage, but canceled.


Supporters of the idea that the Titanic shipwreck was orchestrated carefully, a Jesuit tempore co-adjutor was picked to captain the ship, a man that would do anything for the order and God’s will; Captain Edward Smith. Quite possibly the most experienced captain of the time, Smith had navigated the waters of the Atlantic for 26 years, a master of the icy waters that the Titanic would be sailing. He was a Jesuit and worked for J.P. Morgan. As National Geographic stated in their 1986 documentary entitilted ‘The Secrets of the Titanic,’ “Anyone could be a Jesuit and their identity not be known.”"
Titanic Conspiracy and The Jesuits - RMS Titanic Article

The only time reality is stranger than fiction is when the minds of men are acting and reacting to make it so.

Insane Coincidences – The “Titanic” Disaster Story

5 Titanic Coincidences That Prove Reality is Stranger than Fiction

I find it unbelievable how malleable the minds of people are today. The government schools have made them so willing to accept what ever paradigm the establishment media cartels will whore out to them.

I suppose that is easier than the horror of facing the truth. That they have done this to us before is a good predictor that folks will love falling for the drama again. I'm sure when they aren't paying attention, or are bored, or aren't willing to do the elites bidding, they will sell us more drama. Just look at San Bernardino or Paris.



No one is saying the Titanic didn't sink or that it wasn't an Iceberg.

Don't be so simple minded. Get off your knees and stop accepting the narratives you are told w/o question.


I thought it was pretty obvious that what I wrote was in gest. Sorry you were not developed enough to realize it.

There was no conspiracy involved in the Titanic any more than there was one with the 9/11 attacks. The looney birds that sponsor such a fantasy have the same IQ as pea soup and any investigation of the subject matter would return any sober observer to the same conclusion.

Just a few pages back one of them was saying that there were no planes involved. It doesn't get any more batshit crazy than that.


Your case and your position is not made any stronger by your ad hominem. Folks like you say, "nope, there are no conspiracies," but educated people know there are. So stop being obtuse and grow up. 9 huge government conspiracies that actually happened




Now, as far as there not being any planes? I don't really know about that. I for one don't believe in that particular position, but I am not willing to condemn those who hold that position. Experts have said otherwise.

The following interview is of a fellow that is a known government disinfo agent. He worked with the government, and was instructed to go get the Iranian hostages, not releasing them a moment before Reagan was sworn in.

So can what he says be trusted? I don't know. I think he's pretty shady to say the least. He talks of little green men, E.T.'s and the like (not that those aren't real), so you sort of take it for what it's worth. OTH, he comes from an elite family that knows the inner workings of the SG, so there does seem to be a lot of info mixed in with disinfo. . . .



Who the hell are we to say there were planes? I don't simply know. Until they release to the public the black boxes, neither of us has any proof either way, do we? So any discussion of planes vs. no planes seems academic to me.

Why does the government not release to the public the flight data recorders if there were planes? What exactly are they hiding? In every other crash, they always release that data or at least the destroyed recorders. So what is the deal here? The government claims those recorders were destroyed, but no wreckage? Does it WANT to fuel such conspiracies?

Seems like it to me.:tinfoil:


The main reason I don't believe in the "no planes" theory is that the flight data recording devices WERE found, then the FBI took them, and told the folks that found them to shut up about finding them.

But why?

9/11: Missing Black Boxes in World Trade Center Attacks Found by Firefighters, Analyzed by NTSB, Concealed by FBI
9/11: Missing Black Boxes in World Trade Center Attacks Found by Firefighters, Analyzed by NTSB, Concealed by FBI
But the FBI states, and also reported to the 9-11 Commission, that none of the recording devices from the two planes that hit the World Trade Center were ever recovered.


There has always been some skepticism about this assertion, particularly as two N.Y. City firefighters, Mike Bellone and Nicholas De Masi, claimed in 2004 that they had found three of the four boxes, and that Federal agents took them and told the two men not to mention having found them. (The FBI denies the whole story.) Moreover, these devices are almost always located after crashes, even if not in useable condition (and the cleanup of the World Trade Center was meticulous, with even tiny bone fragments and bits of human tissue being discovered so that almost all the victims were ultimately identified). As Ted Lopatkiewicz, director of public affairs at the National Transportation Safety Agency which has the job of analyzing the boxes’ data, says, “It’s very unusual not to find a recorder after a crash, although it’s also very unusual to have jets flying into buildings.”


<snip>

What the apparent existence of the black boxes in government hands means is unclear.


If the information in those boxes is recoverable, or if, as is likely, it has been recovered already, it could give crucial evidence regarding the skill of the hijacker/pilots, perhaps of their strategy, of whether they were getting outside help in guiding them to their targets, of how fast they were flying and a host of other things.


Why would the main intelligence and law enforcement arm of the U.S. government want to hide from the public not just the available information about the two hijacked flights that provided the motivation and justification for the nation’s “War on Terror” and for its two wars against Afghanistan and Iraq, but even the fact that it has the devices which could contain that information? Conspiracy theories abound, with some claiming the planes were actually pilotless military aircraft, or that they had little or nothing to do with the building collapses. The easiest way to quash such rumors and such fevered thinking would be openness.


Instead we have the opposite: a dark secrecy that invites many questions regarding the potentially embarrassing or perhaps even sinister information that might be on those tapes.


So......the current truther conspiracy is that there were no planes at all?

Holy shit. That takes 'batshit' to a whole new level.


Yeah, I'd have to say so.

But I really couldn't tell you, and frankly, I don't care.


You should. As it means your sources are wildly irrational, bordering on delusional. Which makes their conclusions questionable at best.

I mean, really? No planes?

How much of the brain does someone have to turn off for that to make sense?

One would have to be supremely obtuse to believe that planes took down those buildings, so what does it matter?

That's more of an insult than an argument. Fire and structural damage match the evidence and are far, far simpler than the ludicriously complicated, fantastically elaborate truther conspiracy.

The same conspiracy that gave us the lovely 'no plane' theory.

One would also have to be supremely obtuse to believe that every technology that the US government or the shadow government has available to it's use is going to be available or known about in the popular press. One would think that there is no such thing as top secret technologies, is that it?

That's just a gap argument. Where any of the myriad of truck sized holes in the Truther account are filled with mythical 'secret technology'. That just happens to do whatever it is you need it to do, somehow. Unless it doesn't. With nothing backing its capabilities, use or even existence.

You might as well cite shoe making elves. They have as much factual backing as your gap argument 'technology'.
 
9/11/01 happened for a litany of reasons and some of it has to do with some of the proceeds from the Black Eagle Trust (which was gold stolen from the Japanese that had buried it in the Philippines) some of this was used to buy up gas and oil futures when the Ruble collapsed in September of 1991. The Carlyle group piggybacked off of the currency swaps by Leo Wanta, who was commissioned by Ronald Reagan to take down the USSR's currency back in 1988. These were ten year securities that were to expire in September of 2001...only problem was that in order to authenticate the owners of these securities would require the Securities and Exchange Commission to process it and that posed a real problem. It was solved when the Federal Reserve bankers shut down the SEC due to 9/11 for two weeks thus allowing all trades to go through with no scrutiny. 240 billion dollars were able to fall into the hands of those that had used the stolen gold that made up of some of the Black Eagle Trust of gold stolen from the Japanese that they themselves had stolen.....just one of many reasons for 9/11/01. Cantor Fitzgerald was one of the groups that was used to authenticate ownership of said securities and were targeted on 9/11/01. They resided on the 82nd floor of WTC 1. Oddly enough, Edward Lansdale, one of the principles in getting the gold for the Black Eagle Trust was intimately involved in Kennedy's murder....truth is much stranger than fiction sometimes.



Wow! What a complete load of crap.
I really loved this.

Leo Wanta, who was commissioned by Ronald Reagan to take down the USSR's currency back in 1988.


The ruble in the USSR was not convertible, you stupid git.


My guess is you have no idea that the Leo Wanta scandal is the largest scandal in US history.

Unfortunately, I think 240 billion dollars is a pretty large underestimate of the amounts we're talking about. Reliable updates about the scandal largely disappear after Story was assassinated. But the amounts we're talking about exceed four trillion, some put it at over 25 trillion. Is it any wonder the world economy is a basket case?

As far as being a "stupid git?"

Who's the "stupid git?"
Soviet ruble - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Only a limited set of products could be freely bought, thus the ruble had a role similar to trading stamps or food stamps. The currency was not internationally exchangeable and its export was illegal.

Thanks. I love it when you idiots post proof of my claim.
Stupid git.


I'll agree with you, this is true for the common lay people.

However, this is NOT TRUE FOR GOVERNMENTS.

How do you think the Soviets bought commodities on the world market? Seriously.


Why do you think wiki listed a conversion table?


How do you think the Soviets bought commodities on the world market?

They used dollars or marks or francs or pounds.

Why do you think wiki listed a conversion table?

Because that's what the Commies said the rubles were worth. Even though they weren't convertible.


Your argument doesn't hold any water, sorry.

Why would the commies say their rubles were worth "X" amount if they never traded them?
 
Folks like you say, "nope, there are no conspiracies," but educated people know there are. So stop being obtuse and grow up. Now, as far as there not being any planes? I don't really know about that..

Candy never claimed "nope, there are no conspiracies" nor have I ever heard anyone say such a silly thing (except CT loons trying to explain their lunacy).

What she is trying to tell you is that not everything is a conspiracy ... that like most normal people, gov't officials and employees are far too busy living their lives - you know ... mowing the lawn, chasing sex, watching football - to create and perpetrate the elaborate schemes of your vivid imagination.

That after your years of "research" you still are not sure whether or not there were planes involved on 9/11 says all that anyone needs to know about the loons that pervaded your now defunct 9/11 CT Movement.

It is a real blessing to come across someone like you and some others here that know the things that I do and have taken the time to read and research. It is people like you that keeps me going even when I am being dogpiled on in other forums. I have a close knit group of truthers that are a part of my inner circle and we lean on each other and pass on information to each other. I look forward to learning what I can from you and I hope I am able to return the favor and that you might be able to take some of the things I have garnered and be of use to you as well. We are all in this together and it seems that the powers that be are doubling down on their efforts to bring about their totalitarian, feudalistic two class system of elites and serfs. I want you to know that there are "white hats" working on our behalf and there are inner- agency wars going on that the media never speaks of and what will help them is people waking up...that is the thankless job that you and a few others have here.

Indeed most CT loons are forced to seek out and "lean on" their "close knit group of truthers" because normal people ignore or ridicule the CT silliness.

Paranoia is treatable but you first must want to rejoin the rational.

I do find it amusing (but not surprising) that you think yourself some sort of superhero trying to save the world from evil.

:lmao:
Sayit sez???? "Listen to me you flammer of our gubermint...our gubermint loves us and has never lied to us due you here me due you? You due not love this republik for witches stands you traytor of this cunrtry....how dare you acurse our gubermint of laying to us...a curce upon you!!!!"

Seriously, punkinpuss....you are nothing but a bug on the windshield of life .....should we not be able to turn the tide and those that are left end up serving the collective? I will spare you a thought as you scratch your sloped skull when your little world is turned up on it's axis and you are sitting on the curb wonderin' "Where's da gubermint?" Don't fret, little man...there are millions of "I believe in Santa Claus" dumbfucks like you....you will have plenty of company to commiserate with....


disinfo agent sayit along with candyass is one of USMB's biggest paid trolls of them all-i put these two stupid fucks on ignore years ago-:trolls:

Laughing.......and right on cue, the Truthers insist that anyone who even *questions* their conspiracies must be part of an even more lubriciously complicated and factually baseless conspiracy.

Sigh.......you can't fix stupid.

I don't think it's "stupid." It's exasperation.

Its a baseless conspiracy to back a baseless conspiracy. And its turtles all the way down.
 
Wow! What a complete load of crap.
I really loved this.

Leo Wanta, who was commissioned by Ronald Reagan to take down the USSR's currency back in 1988.


The ruble in the USSR was not convertible, you stupid git.

My guess is you have no idea that the Leo Wanta scandal is the largest scandal in US history.

Unfortunately, I think 240 billion dollars is a pretty large underestimate of the amounts we're talking about. Reliable updates about the scandal largely disappear after Story was assassinated. But the amounts we're talking about exceed four trillion, some put it at over 25 trillion. Is it any wonder the world economy is a basket case?

As far as being a "stupid git?"

Who's the "stupid git?"
Soviet ruble - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Only a limited set of products could be freely bought, thus the ruble had a role similar to trading stamps or food stamps. The currency was not internationally exchangeable and its export was illegal.

Thanks. I love it when you idiots post proof of my claim.
Stupid git.

I'll agree with you, this is true for the common lay people.

However, this is NOT TRUE FOR GOVERNMENTS.

How do you think the Soviets bought commodities on the world market? Seriously.


Why do you think wiki listed a conversion table?

How do you think the Soviets bought commodities on the world market?

They used dollars or marks or francs or pounds.

Why do you think wiki listed a conversion table?

Because that's what the Commies said the rubles were worth. Even though they weren't convertible.

Your argument doesn't hold any water, sorry.

Why would the commies say their rubles were worth "X" amount if they never traded them?

The illusion of equivalency with *actual* convertible currencies. It fooled you, didn't it?
 
The planes impacted about the 92nd floor, which means that only 18 floors were above the impact.

So 18/110 means approximately 16% of the total building's weight was affected.

Now ask yourselves, if you cut the support between 84% of something, and 16% of something, how does that change the relationship that 84% of something can still HOLD THE FUCKING WEIGHT of 16% of something?

The basic principles of engineering would require us to believe that since the building could already support the top floors severed by plane explosions, that the only event that could happen is the top of the buildings would have collapsed onto the remaining 84% and either jammed, or fallen off like the top of a tree breaking off.

When's the last time you saw a branch fall off a tree, and collapse the entire fucking tree?

I say "probably" because I'm trying to think creatively how 16% of something can gain enough "weight" to collapse something that is holding up itself and is 5.25x as massive as the thing falling on it.

Either the acceleration of the remaining 16% is enough to overcome the support allowed by the remaining 84% or it isn't.

Again if it isn't, then it'd just bounce off and fall to the side or fall around it like water balloon falling on a post.



One question, settle up all this mess...we're the planes Israeli?
 
Wow! What a complete load of crap.
I really loved this.

Leo Wanta, who was commissioned by Ronald Reagan to take down the USSR's currency back in 1988.


The ruble in the USSR was not convertible, you stupid git.

My guess is you have no idea that the Leo Wanta scandal is the largest scandal in US history.

Unfortunately, I think 240 billion dollars is a pretty large underestimate of the amounts we're talking about. Reliable updates about the scandal largely disappear after Story was assassinated. But the amounts we're talking about exceed four trillion, some put it at over 25 trillion. Is it any wonder the world economy is a basket case?

As far as being a "stupid git?"

Who's the "stupid git?"
Soviet ruble - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Only a limited set of products could be freely bought, thus the ruble had a role similar to trading stamps or food stamps. The currency was not internationally exchangeable and its export was illegal.

Thanks. I love it when you idiots post proof of my claim.
Stupid git.

I'll agree with you, this is true for the common lay people.

However, this is NOT TRUE FOR GOVERNMENTS.

How do you think the Soviets bought commodities on the world market? Seriously.


Why do you think wiki listed a conversion table?

How do you think the Soviets bought commodities on the world market?

They used dollars or marks or francs or pounds.

Why do you think wiki listed a conversion table?

Because that's what the Commies said the rubles were worth. Even though they weren't convertible.

Your argument doesn't hold any water, sorry.

Why would the commies say their rubles were worth "X" amount if they never traded them?

Your argument doesn't hold any water, sorry.

What argument? Rubles were not convertible in the USSR.
That's a fact.

Why would the commies say their rubles were worth "X" amount if they never traded them?

If they were tradable, why would the Commies have to tell you what they were worth, you could just post a market chart. Like you could with dollars vs YEN, GBP, DM, SFC, FFC, any tradable currency.

They did it so they could brag about how large their GDP was, in other words, so they could lie.
 
. . . And to this day, the powerful men that did not want the Federal Reserve, the ones that could have prevented the booms and the busts, the ones that could have prevented the bubbles and the currency wars, the dollar devaluation and all the endless senseless wars in the name of the global banking cabal, went down on that ship.

Now, tax day is the same day that the ship went down.

Remember that next time you have to file your tax forms.
jesuits-300x296.jpg

"Necessary to their plans, the Federal Reserve did have some opposition; those who saw what the future would become if banking was outside of the government’s hands, the rates set by a private company such as the Fed. All the wealthy and powerful men the Jesuits wanted to get rid of were invited to take the cruise. Three of the richest and most important of these were Benjamin Guggenheim, Isador Strauss, the head of Macy’s Department Stores, and John Jacob Astor, probably the wealthiest man in the world. Their total wealth, at that time, using dollar values of their day was more than 500 million dollars. Today that amount of money would be worth nearly eleven billion dollars. These three men were coaxed and encouraged to board the floating palace. They had to be destroyed because the Jesuits knew they would use their wealth and influence to oppose a Federal Reserve Bank as well as the various wars that were being planned.


It can also be mentioned that J.P. Morgan, the individual contracted to build the Titanic was scheduled to be on the maiden voyage, but canceled.


Supporters of the idea that the Titanic shipwreck was orchestrated carefully, a Jesuit tempore co-adjutor was picked to captain the ship, a man that would do anything for the order and God’s will; Captain Edward Smith. Quite possibly the most experienced captain of the time, Smith had navigated the waters of the Atlantic for 26 years, a master of the icy waters that the Titanic would be sailing. He was a Jesuit and worked for J.P. Morgan. As National Geographic stated in their 1986 documentary entitilted ‘The Secrets of the Titanic,’ “Anyone could be a Jesuit and their identity not be known.”"
Titanic Conspiracy and The Jesuits - RMS Titanic Article

The only time reality is stranger than fiction is when the minds of men are acting and reacting to make it so.

Insane Coincidences – The “Titanic” Disaster Story

5 Titanic Coincidences That Prove Reality is Stranger than Fiction

I find it unbelievable how malleable the minds of people are today. The government schools have made them so willing to accept what ever paradigm the establishment media cartels will whore out to them.

I suppose that is easier than the horror of facing the truth. That they have done this to us before is a good predictor that folks will love falling for the drama again. I'm sure when they aren't paying attention, or are bored, or aren't willing to do the elites bidding, they will sell us more drama. Just look at San Bernardino or Paris.



No one is saying the Titanic didn't sink or that it wasn't an Iceberg.

Don't be so simple minded. Get off your knees and stop accepting the narratives you are told w/o question.


I thought it was pretty obvious that what I wrote was in gest. Sorry you were not developed enough to realize it.

There was no conspiracy involved in the Titanic any more than there was one with the 9/11 attacks. The looney birds that sponsor such a fantasy have the same IQ as pea soup and any investigation of the subject matter would return any sober observer to the same conclusion.

Just a few pages back one of them was saying that there were no planes involved. It doesn't get any more batshit crazy than that.


Your case and your position is not made any stronger by your ad hominem. Folks like you say, "nope, there are no conspiracies," but educated people know there are. So stop being obtuse and grow up. 9 huge government conspiracies that actually happened




Now, as far as there not being any planes? I don't really know about that. I for one don't believe in that particular position, but I am not willing to condemn those who hold that position. Experts have said otherwise.

The following interview is of a fellow that is a known government disinfo agent. He worked with the government, and was instructed to go get the Iranian hostages, not releasing them a moment before Reagan was sworn in.

So can what he says be trusted? I don't know. I think he's pretty shady to say the least. He talks of little green men, E.T.'s and the like (not that those aren't real), so you sort of take it for what it's worth. OTH, he comes from an elite family that knows the inner workings of the SG, so there does seem to be a lot of info mixed in with disinfo. . . .



Who the hell are we to say there were planes? I don't simply know. Until they release to the public the black boxes, neither of us has any proof either way, do we? So any discussion of planes vs. no planes seems academic to me.

Why does the government not release to the public the flight data recorders if there were planes? What exactly are they hiding? In every other crash, they always release that data or at least the destroyed recorders. So what is the deal here? The government claims those recorders were destroyed, but no wreckage? Does it WANT to fuel such conspiracies?

Seems like it to me.:tinfoil:


The main reason I don't believe in the "no planes" theory is that the flight data recording devices WERE found, then the FBI took them, and told the folks that found them to shut up about finding them.

But why?

9/11: Missing Black Boxes in World Trade Center Attacks Found by Firefighters, Analyzed by NTSB, Concealed by FBI
9/11: Missing Black Boxes in World Trade Center Attacks Found by Firefighters, Analyzed by NTSB, Concealed by FBI
But the FBI states, and also reported to the 9-11 Commission, that none of the recording devices from the two planes that hit the World Trade Center were ever recovered.


There has always been some skepticism about this assertion, particularly as two N.Y. City firefighters, Mike Bellone and Nicholas De Masi, claimed in 2004 that they had found three of the four boxes, and that Federal agents took them and told the two men not to mention having found them. (The FBI denies the whole story.) Moreover, these devices are almost always located after crashes, even if not in useable condition (and the cleanup of the World Trade Center was meticulous, with even tiny bone fragments and bits of human tissue being discovered so that almost all the victims were ultimately identified). As Ted Lopatkiewicz, director of public affairs at the National Transportation Safety Agency which has the job of analyzing the boxes’ data, says, “It’s very unusual not to find a recorder after a crash, although it’s also very unusual to have jets flying into buildings.”


<snip>

What the apparent existence of the black boxes in government hands means is unclear.


If the information in those boxes is recoverable, or if, as is likely, it has been recovered already, it could give crucial evidence regarding the skill of the hijacker/pilots, perhaps of their strategy, of whether they were getting outside help in guiding them to their targets, of how fast they were flying and a host of other things.


Why would the main intelligence and law enforcement arm of the U.S. government want to hide from the public not just the available information about the two hijacked flights that provided the motivation and justification for the nation’s “War on Terror” and for its two wars against Afghanistan and Iraq, but even the fact that it has the devices which could contain that information? Conspiracy theories abound, with some claiming the planes were actually pilotless military aircraft, or that they had little or nothing to do with the building collapses. The easiest way to quash such rumors and such fevered thinking would be openness.


Instead we have the opposite: a dark secrecy that invites many questions regarding the potentially embarrassing or perhaps even sinister information that might be on those tapes.


So......the current truther conspiracy is that there were no planes at all?

Holy shit. That takes 'batshit' to a whole new level.


Yeah, I'd have to say so.

But I really couldn't tell you, and frankly, I don't care.


You should. As it means your sources are wildly irrational, bordering on delusional. Which makes their conclusions questionable at best.

I mean, really? No planes?

How much of the brain does someone have to turn off for that to make sense?

One would have to be supremely obtuse to believe that planes took down those buildings, so what does it matter?

That's more of an insult than an argument. Fire and structural damage match the evidence and are far, far simpler than the ludicriously complicated, fantastically elaborate truther conspiracy.

The same conspiracy that gave us the lovely 'no plane' theory.

One would also have to be supremely obtuse to believe that every technology that the US government or the shadow government has available to it's use is going to be available or known about in the popular press. One would think that there is no such thing as top secret technologies, is that it?

That's just a gap argument. Where any of the myriad of truck sized holes in the Truther account are filled with mythical 'secret technology'. That just happens to do whatever it is you need it to do, somehow. Unless it doesn't. With nothing backing its capabilities, use or even existence.

You might as well cite shoe making elves. They have as much factual backing as your gap argument 'technology'.


You know, you are a very thoughtful person, and what you have posted makes sense. Well, most of it anyhow.

Where I disagree, is this statement;

That's more of an insult than an argument. Fire and structural damage match the evidence and are far, far simpler than the ludicriously complicated, fantastically elaborate truther conspiracy.

The fire and structural damage in no way have ever matched what happened. NIST has hidden the data used in their models, any time anyone has tried to reproduce this, it just doesn't fly. So why should we expect that those planes did? I can't prove they weren't drones. The government can't come up with the wreckage, and you can't prove it wasn't holograms. I won't say there weren't planes, but the establishment conspiracy theory has as much FACTUAL evidence backing it up as the alternate hypotheses. I think that is what really bothers you, isn't it?

They have been hundreds of threads, across countless forums, it never gets put to bed.

Your whole post has as much to it's POV as the alternate paradigm. Where you go astray is with your hyperbole and ad hominem. Do you think that makes your case any more compelling? It really doesn't.


I like your posts in most of the rest of the forum, try to remain an adult here.




Context of 'Mid-August 2001: 9/11 Hijacker Hanjour Rents Plane in Maryland; He Is Still Not Skilled Enough to Fly Solo'
Context of 'Mid-August 2001: 9/11 Hijacker Hanjour Rents Plane in Maryland; He Is Still Not Skilled Enough to Fly Solo'


Mid-August 2001: 9/11 Hijacker Hanjour Rents Plane in Maryland; He Is Still Not Skilled Enough to Fly Solo

b111_hani_hanjour_2050081722-10026.jpg
Hani Hanjour. [Source: FBI]9/11 hijacker Hani Hanjour goes to the Freeway Airport in Bowie, Maryland, about 20 miles west of Washington. He wants to rent a single engine Cessna airplane. However, when two instructors take him on three test runs, they find he has trouble controlling and landing the plane. One instructor has to help him land. Due to his poor skills, therefore, he is not allowed to rent one of their planes without more lessons. Further, while Hanjour appears to have logged over 600 hours of flying experience and possesses a valid pilot’s license (though it has in fact expired), he refuses to provide contact information: He gives no phone number and only gives his address as being a hotel in Laurel. In spite of Hanjour’s lack of flying skills, chief instructor Marcel Bernard later claims, “There’s no doubt in my mind that once [Flight 77] got going, he could have pointed that plane at a building and hit it.” [Capital News, 9/19/2001; Gazette (Greenbelt), 9/21/2001; Newsday, 9/23/2001; Washington Post, 10/15/2001] However, on 9/11, in piloting Flight 77 into the Pentagon, Hanjour would have needed to do much more than simply point the plane at a target. Because Flight 77 at first seemed to overshoot its target, the Washington Post will note that “the unidentified pilot executed a pivot so tight that it reminded observers of a fighter jet maneuver. The plane circled 270 degrees to the right to approach the Pentagon from the west, whereupon Flight 77 fell below radar level.… Aviation sources said the plane was flown with extraordinary skill, making it highly likely that a trained pilot was at the helm.” [Washington Post, 9/12/2001] One Washington air traffic controller will later comment, “The speed, the maneuverability, the way that he turned, we all thought in the radar room, all of us experienced air traffic controllers, that that was a military plane.” [ABC News, 10/24/2001] One law enforcement official who will study Flight 77’s descent after 9/11 will call it the work of “a great talent… virtually a textbook turn and landing.” [Washington Post, 9/10/2002] Remarkably, the 9/11 Commission will overlook the numerous accounts of Hanjour’s terrible piloting skills (see April 15, 1999 and January-February 2001) and state that 9/11 mastermind Khalid Shaikh Mohammed assigned the Pentagon target specifically to Hanjour because he was “the operation’s most experienced pilot.” [9/11 Commission, 7/24/2004, pp. 530]

 
"Which foreign countries accepted non-convertible rubles from the USSR? Why would they?"
Seriously, if you are that fucking stupid as to even ask that question? Then my conversation with you has been a total waste of time....you re just a time waster....seriously, how could someone as stupid as you are even be able to work a computer? You must be an idiot savant.

Seriously, if you are that fucking stupid as to even ask that question?

I've noticed when I point out your idiocy, that you can't answer my questions.
Would you accept non-convertible currency from North Korea? Why/why not?

Then my conversation with you has been a total waste of time....

Well, obviously, because you're a fucking loon. As well as an idiot.
"Which foreign countries accepted non-convertible rubles from the USSR? Why would they?"
Seriously, if you are that fucking stupid as to even ask that question? Then my conversation with you has been a total waste of time....you re just a time waster....seriously, how could someone as stupid as you are even be able to work a computer? You must be an idiot savant.

Seriously, if you are that fucking stupid as to even ask that question?

I've noticed when I point out your idiocy, that you can't answer my questions.
Would you accept non-convertible currency from North Korea? Why/why not?

Then my conversation with you has been a total waste of time....

Well, obviously, because you're a fucking loon. As well as an idiot.


The only thing that you pointed out was your own stupidity....congrats and nicely done. Any idiot that would compare the manufacturing ability of the USSR, their trading abilities with that of North Korea obviously has no grasp on anything. I lean more to the right of the political spectrum than I do the left...but if you classify yourself as a "rightwinger"? You are the reason that people declare themselves as "independent"....I sure as fuck wouldn't want to identify myself as being in the same camp as you.......not ever. ....sheeesh.
Hay bud you are wasting your time with these trolls they are here for one reason and one reason only and that is to disrupt. And you payed mother fuckers know who you are.
 

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