Would 'Gun Control' Reduce Murder?

[naturegirl]

Well then there is this:

<snip>

The key facts are:

&#8226; The US has the highest gun ownership rate in the world - an average of 88 per 100 people. That puts it first in the world for gun ownership - and even the number two country, Yemen, has significantly fewer - 54.8 per 100 people
&#8226; But the US does not have the worst firearm murder rate - that prize belongs to Honduras, El Salvador and Jamaica. In fact, the US is number 28, with a rate of 2.97 per 100,000 people
&#8226; Puerto Rico tops the world's table for firearms murders as a percentage of all homicides - 94.8%. It's followed by Sierra Leone in Africa and Saint Kitts and Nevis in the Caribbean

Gun homicides and gun ownership listed by country | News | theguardian.com

 

[High_Gravity]

Well, well, well.....we just got the answer.
And, from Harvard, no less.


1. " A study published in the Harvard Journal of Law and Public Policy this spring calls into question the conventional wisdom behind arguments for more strict gun control. Namely, the idea that fewer guns would equal less deadly violence.

2. Will a Harvard man listen to Harvard research?

Probably not, if the Harvard man is Barack Obama, and what Harvard’s saying flies in the face of liberal pieties – and misconceptions and lies – about gun ownership, gun violence and gun control...

3 .Like the recently reported CDC study about gun violence Obama commissioned himself, the message to gun grabbers is clear:

They’re wrong.




4. A Harvard study released in the spring .... focused on the prevalence of gun ownership in the United States versus those strict gun-control countries in Europe the left is so fond of talking about.

5. Looking at historical patterns in the United States from the colonial and post-colonial days, and in Europe going back to the time before guns were even invented, ...a clear conclusion:

“Nations with higher gun ownership rates … do not have higher murder or suicide rates than those with lower gun ownership…”

a. Russia. Under communist rule, the former Soviet union was largely disarmed by the government for the better part of a century, has a homicide rate four times higher than the U.S.




6. .... if guns aren’t the true source of the problem, we’d best be honest and open about that, so we can better focus on finding real solutions.

7. ... solutions have much more to do with reversing the breakdown of the two-parent family, and our culture’s wide-armed embrace of moral relativism."
Harvard Study: Banning Guns Would Not Reduce Murder






8. "Heavily armed Norwegians, where gun ownership is highest in Western Europe, have the continent’s lowest homicide rate, researchers Don Kates and Gary Mauser wrote.

9. In the United States, homicide rates were relatively low, despite periods when firearms were widely available – the colonial era, when Americans were the world’s most heavily armed population, the post-Civil War years, when the country was awash in surplus guns and filled with men trained to use them.

10. And today?

Communities where gun-ownership rates are highest are where the homicide rates are lowest,...."
Harvard study proves gun-grabbers? argument dead wrong - BizPac Review





How often are Liberals going to be proven wrong, and conservatives correct, before folks on the Left learn???


Avagadro's number comes to mind.....

I don't think it will.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

People always have murdered other people
People always will murder other people

The question is, " Do you want to be defenseless when someone decides to murder you?"

No, but I don't want it to be easy for them to do it, either.

11,000 gun murders in the US.
11 In Japan
48 in the UK
248 in Germany

I could go on, and I have...

Please do go on, it makes everyone who attempts to discuss facts with you look so much more intelligent when you resort to comparing gun homicides to all homicides.

Alternatively, you could admit you prefer people to not defend themselves because you are afraid.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I didn't cherry pick anything. If I did, then tell us what specifically I left out that I should have included.

Why did you pick out Russia and Finland while ignoring the other countries? Why do you keep pointing to gun crime then the thread is about all homicides and suicides?

Hint, it is because you are cherry picking in an attempt to prove how stupid you are. You could save yourself a lot of work, we already know.

It was Norway, not Finland.

I referred to those countries because the OP referred to those countries. You're attacking me for staying on topic? lol

I pointed to gun crime because I think gun crime is relevant when you're talking about guns.

No one I know who supports gun control is making the argument that gun control will reduce the frequency of people being murdered with a knife or a baseball bat.

The OP invents a false claim that no one is claiming, and then attempts to refute that invention.

That is the classic example of a strawman.

Norway, Finland, it is still cherry picking, especially when the discussion is about how gun control impacts murder and suicide rates across the board, and you resort to discussing the impact of gun control on the gun homicide rate.

What is it that no one is trying to do? If you are claiming that no one is trying to ban all guns because they believe, or claim that they believe, it will make people safer I am forced to conclude that you are part of the group that believes that lying is justified in an attempt to reach the goal of banning all guns. That alone makes your attempt to berate me for a lack of character laughable.

Keep cherry picking, and lying, it makes my argument so much easier.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I didn't cherry pick anything. If I did, then tell us what specifically I left out that I should have included.

Why did you pick out Russia and Finland while ignoring the other countries? Why do you keep pointing to gun crime then the thread is about all homicides and suicides?

Hint, it is because you are cherry picking in an attempt to prove how stupid you are. You could save yourself a lot of work, we already know.

Well, why don't you concentrate on the foundation, which is at the bottom of everyone of your arguments, the 2nd Amendment itself. If I am going to argue against this silly notion of a Christian god, I am going to start with antecedent, where is there any proof of a god. In the gun argument, how can you get by "shall not be infringed?" Figure that one out and get back to me.

Because the discussion is not about the 2nd Amendment, it is about the absurd claim that banning guns makes people safe. That might explain why intelligent people mock you, you can't even figure out what the point is, if you could you wouldn't be asking if there is evidence of God's existence, you would be arguing that God doesn't concern Himself with the day to day activities of lesser beings.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Who's claiming that gun control is supposed to prevent other-than-gun crime?

That would be people like Candycorn, Saigon, you, and everyone else that argues that gun control makes people safer.

Any other questions, idiot?

It should then be easy for you to cite an example of where I have claimed that universal background checks would prevent crimes not involving guns.

Should I point out the strawman here? I never said you claimed it would prevent other crimes, I said you claim it will make people safer. Are you telling me that you don't support background checks because they make it harder for criminals to get guns, thus making people safer? If that is not true, why the fuck do you support them? Because the only rational alternative defense for them is that it gives the government a chance to control people. If that is your position I can safely conclude that you are a despicable asshole, and simply mock everything you say.

By the way, I expect you to pos rep me to negate that neg you gave me for lying about your position when you are the one that is lying about mine.

 

[naturegirl]

Believe this or not........gun control is about control. That's a fact Jack.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Why did you pick out Russia and Finland while ignoring the other countries? Why do you keep pointing to gun crime then the thread is about all homicides and suicides?

Hint, it is because you are cherry picking in an attempt to prove how stupid you are. You could save yourself a lot of work, we already know.

Well, why don't you concentrate on the foundation, which is at the bottom of everyone of your arguments, the 2nd Amendment itself. If I am going to argue against this silly notion of a Christian god, I am going to start with antecedent, where is there any proof of a god. In the gun argument, how can you get by "shall not be infringed?" Figure that one out and get back to me.

If you are claiming that 'shall not be infringed' constitutes an inviolable absolute, getting by that is easy...

...reasonable people don't believe that, and never have.

Only an unreasonable, power hungry, asshole could read "shall not be infringed" and conclude that infringements are justified.

 

[candycorn]

So the study purports to show that gun control doesn't control murder by means other than guns??

lolol, my first literal LOL of the day!!!

If guns made a society safer, we'd have the safest society in the history of the universe. Instead we have one of the most violent and are "raised in violence" according to one guy on this thread.

Gee, I wonder why?

Tell you what, you guarantee me that neither I nor my wife nor anyone I care about will never ever be the victim of a violent crime and I will gladly slag my firearms.

But you can't can you? You know why you can't?

Because people are a violent species always have been always will be.

So I'll be keeping my guns.

It won't matter if you do.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It's not a valid study because it is based on the absurd premise that gun ownership, or lack thereof,

is somehow related to murder rates that include murders not involving guns.

You might as well be comparing the percentage of households that own big screen tv's to the number of drunk driving fatalities.

It is absolutely valid study

a study is not being built on a premise, a study build on a thesis.

This one is simple statistical analysis and does not have any thesis

Statistics which show exactly what you hate - gun ownership reduces homicide rate.this simple truth is proven even by analysis of statistics which I provided

Since the study to the best of my knowledge never shows cause and effect,

it can't be of any value to support the conclusion I bolded.

You are the one that is arguing that gun control makes people safer despite all the evidence to the contrary, including the results of a study that set out to prove that gun control makes us safer that was forced to admit that there is absolutely no evidence to support that premise. Can you explain how your lack of evidence to back up your position places any burden on me?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

So the study purports to show that gun control doesn't control murder by means other than guns??

lolol, my first literal LOL of the day!!!

If guns made a society safer, we'd have the safest society in the history of the universe. Instead we have one of the most violent and are "raised in violence" according to one guy on this thread.

Gee, I wonder why?

Tell you what, you guarantee me that neither I nor my wife nor anyone I care about will never ever be the victim of a violent crime and I will gladly slag my firearms.

But you can't can you? You know why you can't?

Because people are a violent species always have been always will be.

So I'll be keeping my guns.

Bingo.

Since the government cannot guarantee the safety of its citizens it should not be allowed to interfere with their own actions to make themselves safe.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

[qu
it is a valid study and you can't overturn anything what they have said, becasue it is statistics.

Okay, then here are my statistics:

The U.S. firearm homicide rate is 3.60 per hundred thousand

The U.S. gun ownership rate is 94 guns per 100 residents

The Canadian firearm homicide rate is .5 per hundred thousand

The Canadian per gun ownership rate is 30 guns per 100 residents

...so, did I prove that Canada has fewer gun murders because they have fewer guns?

Number of guns per capita by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Cherry picking again, what a surprise. Next you will lie and tell me that no one is trying to ban guns, and that no one is saying it will make people safer if we do, even though you just argued that it makes people safer.

By the way, gun ownership in Russia is 1 in 4,000, homicide rate 20.54 per 100,000. How do you explain that given your premise that less guns makes people safer?

 

[NYcarbineer]

[qu
it is a valid study and you can't overturn anything what they have said, becasue it is statistics.

Okay, then here are my statistics:

The U.S. firearm homicide rate is 3.60 per hundred thousand

The U.S. gun ownership rate is 94 guns per 100 residents

The Canadian firearm homicide rate is .5 per hundred thousand

The Canadian per gun ownership rate is 30 guns per 100 residents

...so, did I prove that Canada has fewer gun murders because they have fewer guns?

Number of guns per capita by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Cherry picking again, what a surprise. Next you will lie and tell me that no one is trying to ban guns, and that no one is saying it will make people safer if we do, even though you just argued that it makes people safer.

By the way, gun ownership in Russia is 1 in 4,000, homicide rate 20.54 per 100,000. How do you explain that given your premise that less guns makes people safer?

Do you have a link to the firearm homicide rate in Russia being 21 in 100,000?

 

[NYcarbineer]

[qu
it is a valid study and you can't overturn anything what they have said, becasue it is statistics.

Okay, then here are my statistics:

The U.S. firearm homicide rate is 3.60 per hundred thousand

The U.S. gun ownership rate is 94 guns per 100 residents

The Canadian firearm homicide rate is .5 per hundred thousand

The Canadian per gun ownership rate is 30 guns per 100 residents

...so, did I prove that Canada has fewer gun murders because they have fewer guns?

Number of guns per capita by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Cherry picking again, what a surprise. Next you will lie and tell me that no one is trying to ban guns, and that no one is saying it will make people safer if we do, even though you just argued that it makes people safer.

By the way, gun ownership in Russia is 1 in 4,000, homicide rate 20.54 per 100,000. How do you explain that given your premise that less guns makes people safer?

Actually the rate in Russia is 8.9 guns per 100 residents.

Number of guns per capita by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[NYcarbineer]

Well, why don't you concentrate on the foundation, which is at the bottom of everyone of your arguments, the 2nd Amendment itself. If I am going to argue against this silly notion of a Christian god, I am going to start with antecedent, where is there any proof of a god. In the gun argument, how can you get by "shall not be infringed?" Figure that one out and get back to me.

If you are claiming that 'shall not be infringed' constitutes an inviolable absolute, getting by that is easy...

...reasonable people don't believe that, and never have.

Only an unreasonable, power hungry, asshole could read "shall not be infringed" and conclude that infringements are justified.

Since you have openly admitted you believe in NO GOVERNMENT, you are hardly qualified to instruct anyone on what is or isn't reasonable.

 

[NYcarbineer]

[qu
it is a valid study and you can't overturn anything what they have said, becasue it is statistics.

Okay, then here are my statistics:

The U.S. firearm homicide rate is 3.60 per hundred thousand

The U.S. gun ownership rate is 94 guns per 100 residents

The Canadian firearm homicide rate is .5 per hundred thousand

The Canadian per gun ownership rate is 30 guns per 100 residents

...so, did I prove that Canada has fewer gun murders because they have fewer guns?

Number of guns per capita by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

no, you did not. Canada is not comparable to the US. Too few of the people.

and if you want to discuss anything - stop using wikipedia.

lol, you just destroyed your own argument, which is exactly what I intended for you.

That was almost too easy.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Tell you what, you guarantee me that neither I nor my wife nor anyone I care about will never ever be the victim of a violent crime and I will gladly slag my firearms.

But you can't can you? You know why you can't?

Because people are a violent species always have been always will be.

So I'll be keeping my guns.

Your big central government via the 2nd amendment is protecting your right to own guns. But no right is or should be unlimited.

except the right to bear arms, which should not be infringed

Freedom of the press may not be abridged either. Does that make outlawing child pornography unconstitutional?

 

[martybegan]

Your big central government via the 2nd amendment is protecting your right to own guns. But no right is or should be unlimited.

except the right to bear arms, which should not be infringed

Freedom of the press may not be abridged either. Does that make outlawing child pornography unconstitutional?

to create child pornography you have to commit acts of rape and child abuse. thus the crime is the rape and/or child abuse, and this translates to the materials created from the crime, i.e. the porn.

Non-real child pornography, such as Loli hentai has been found to be legal, because there is no underlying illegal act. Thus under the same concept a book written on HOW to molest children would be protected, although im sure the person writing it would be checked by police for any actual molesting actions.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Well then there is this:

<snip>

The key facts are:

• The US has the highest gun ownership rate in the world - an average of 88 per 100 people. That puts it first in the world for gun ownership - and even the number two country, Yemen, has significantly fewer - 54.8 per 100 people
• But the US does not have the worst firearm murder rate - that prize belongs to Honduras, El Salvador and Jamaica. In fact, the US is number 28, with a rate of 2.97 per 100,000 people
• Puerto Rico tops the world's table for firearms murders as a percentage of all homicides - 94.8%. It's followed by Sierra Leone in Africa and Saint Kitts and Nevis in the Caribbean

Gun homicides and gun ownership listed by country | News | theguardian.com

Well, Sierra Leone certainly takes its assault rifle rights seriously...

 

[NYcarbineer]

except the right to bear arms, which should not be infringed

Freedom of the press may not be abridged either. Does that make outlawing child pornography unconstitutional?

to create child pornography you have to commit acts of rape and child abuse. thus the crime is the rape and/or child abuse, and this translates to the materials created from the crime, i.e. the porn.

Non-real child pornography, such as Loli hentai has been found to be legal, because there is no underlying illegal act. Thus under the same concept a book written on HOW to molest children would be protected, although im sure the person writing it would be checked by police for any actual molesting actions.

That's infringing on the freedom of the press nonetheless. You're admitting that infringing on freedom of the press is justifiable if society determines there is a greater good.

You're admitting that the use of the words infringed, or abridged, in the Constitution are not inviolable absolutes.

That's what we keep trying to tell you.