Wyoming's proposed anti-LGBT law

[AugmentedDog]

So....a business that seeks to open and gets a business license from the state isn't obligated to follow the business laws?

Any law cannot override constitutional protections. People have a right to free exercise of religion, and that right does not go away just because they want to sell something.

So a business is a person? Sounds like you are against all business laws.......yes? Health? Safety?

Argumentum ad abusrdum. I am for the rights of the seller to be taken account of in the equation, so if there are 10 bakers in the area, and 1 doesn't want to cater to gay weddings, they are not forced to do it or face ruin.

Then they put up a sign for all to see that they don't cater to weddings.......

They can still cater to certain weddings. Would you force a caterer who specializes in Jewish weddings to cater a Christian one?

Force? No. Require by law? Yes!

 

[martybegan]

Seems to me that it is those businesses and "people" who support discrimination that are forcing a lifestyle on others - not the other way round

The gay couple can get another baker to bake the cake.

Why? How is that right?
Should we also sit at the back of the bus and be denied a seat at the lunch counter?
Sheesh!

A lunch counter is an actual Public Accommodation.

 

[martybegan]

Any law cannot override constitutional protections. People have a right to free exercise of religion, and that right does not go away just because they want to sell something.

So a business is a person? Sounds like you are against all business laws.......yes? Health? Safety?

Argumentum ad abusrdum. I am for the rights of the seller to be taken account of in the equation, so if there are 10 bakers in the area, and 1 doesn't want to cater to gay weddings, they are not forced to do it or face ruin.

Then they put up a sign for all to see that they don't cater to weddings.......

They can still cater to certain weddings. Would you force a caterer who specializes in Jewish weddings to cater a Christian one?

Force? No. Require by law? Yes!

Requiring something by law is using force. You agree a $143k fine for not making one cake is justified?

 

[AugmentedDog]

Seems to me that it is those businesses and "people" who support discrimination that are forcing a lifestyle on others - not the other way round

The gay couple can get another baker to bake the cake.

Why? How is that right?
Should we also sit at the back of the bus and be denied a seat at the lunch counter?
Sheesh!

A lunch counter is an actual Public Accommodation.

As is an open door to any business

 

[AugmentedDog]

So a business is a person? Sounds like you are against all business laws.......yes? Health? Safety?

Argumentum ad abusrdum. I am for the rights of the seller to be taken account of in the equation, so if there are 10 bakers in the area, and 1 doesn't want to cater to gay weddings, they are not forced to do it or face ruin.

Then they put up a sign for all to see that they don't cater to weddings.......

They can still cater to certain weddings. Would you force a caterer who specializes in Jewish weddings to cater a Christian one?

Force? No. Require by law? Yes!

Requiring something by law is using force. You agree a $143k fine for not making one cake is justified?

I agree that sanctions for discrimination are justified.

 

[martybegan]

Seems to me that it is those businesses and "people" who support discrimination that are forcing a lifestyle on others - not the other way round

The gay couple can get another baker to bake the cake.

Why? How is that right?
Should we also sit at the back of the bus and be denied a seat at the lunch counter?
Sheesh!

A lunch counter is an actual Public Accommodation.

As is an open door to any business

No, it's not. The people ordering the cake are not being accommodated in public, nor is the product being provided in public. It is a contracted service for a private event.

It's a PA when they walk up and order a generic cake and walk out without any further customization or contracting between the parties. Otherwise it isn't.

 

[AugmentedDog]

Seems to me that it is those businesses and "people" who support discrimination that are forcing a lifestyle on others - not the other way round

The gay couple can get another baker to bake the cake.

Why? How is that right?
Should we also sit at the back of the bus and be denied a seat at the lunch counter?
Sheesh!

A lunch counter is an actual Public Accommodation.

As is an open door to any business

No, it's not. The people ordering the cake are not being accommodated in public, nor is the product being provided in public. It is a contracted service for a private event.

It's a PA when they walk up and order a generic cake and walk out without any further customization or contracting between the parties. Otherwise it isn't.

Wrong

 

[whitehall]

I don't have any friends in Wyoming so I googled up the proposed law. The strange thing is that you can't find much about the bill except absolutely crazy left wing propaganda and preposterous examples like a "firefighter refusing to help LGBT people". The 1st Amendment to the Constitution guaranteeing freedom of religion was enacted a long time before LGBT "rights" and it seems that all the whining is about the religious right of government workers to refuse to sanction sodomite relationships. The LGBT people are free to find someone to perform the ceremony and bake a freaking wedding cake but Christians (and Muslems) are equally free to express their own religious beliefs.

 

[martybegan]

Argumentum ad abusrdum. I am for the rights of the seller to be taken account of in the equation, so if there are 10 bakers in the area, and 1 doesn't want to cater to gay weddings, they are not forced to do it or face ruin.

Then they put up a sign for all to see that they don't cater to weddings.......

They can still cater to certain weddings. Would you force a caterer who specializes in Jewish weddings to cater a Christian one?

Force? No. Require by law? Yes!

Requiring something by law is using force. You agree a $143k fine for not making one cake is justified?

I agree that sanctions for discrimination are justified.

you dodge the question. Is $143k fine and the ruining of the business an acceptable punishment for not baking a cake?

How about we make political affiliation a protected class, and make some hipster baker make "WE LOVE TRUMP" cakes?

 

[Nosmo King]

From a friend in Wyoming:

The Wyoming State Legislature is considering a bill that, if passed, would become the most oppressive and wide-ranging anti-LGBT law in the nation. It would allow social workers to deny aid, teachers to not teach, health care workers to deny service not only to individuals that identify as LGBT, but their children as well. And that is just part of the bill... this bill tells our LGBT brothers and sisters that they are not worthy to receive services a straight cisgendered individual can receive.

HB-135 is scheduled to be voted upon by the Wyoming House Judiciary Committee this week, its first step toward becoming law. Please call and/or email members of this committee (contact info pasted below) and tell them to VOTE NO ON HB-135. No hate in the equality state!

Remember: Be firm but polite; introduce yourself and say where you're from; make your message personal.

Wyoming House Judiciary Committee -
Dan Kirkbride (Chugwater)
Cell - (307) 331-2265
[email protected]

Mark Baker (Rock Springs)
Cell - (307) 371-5113
[email protected]

Bo Biteman (Ranchester)
Cell - (307) 763-7613
[email protected]

Mark Jennings (Sheridan)
Cell - (307) 461-0697
[email protected]

Jared Olsen (Cheyenne)
Cell - (307) 509-0242
[email protected]

Charles Pelkey (Laramie)
Cell - (307) 920-0542
[email protected]

Bill Pownall (Gillette)
Home - (307) 682-4148
[email protected]

Tim Salazar (Dubois)
Cell - (307) 220-1213
[email protected]

Nathan Winters (Thermopolis)
Home - (307) 864-3690
[email protected]

This is what you get when you use courts to force gay marriage on places that don't want it, and force non-essential businesses to either "bake or die".

When your side becomes unreasonable, don't be surprised when the other side does the exact same thing.

Since when is the LBGT community not entitled to the same rights and protections as any other American

They may be entitled to it, but their rights do not automatically outweigh the rights of others, as in a right of a baker to not participate in a ceremony it finds sinful.

Bakers are not 'participants'. They are vendors.

Do bakers show up and take assigned seating at the reception? Does a baker respond when asked "Who gives this woman in holy matrimony?"? Does the baker step up and step on a little goblet and then shout "Mozel Tov!"? Do bakers arrive with a toaster oven wrapped in silver paper?

Most often, a baker delivers his wares at a hall before the wedding party arrives. Bakers do not provide a mercantile impermatur approving a marriage. The are not 'participants', not by a long shot.

 

[bodecea]

Seems to me that it is those businesses and "people" who support discrimination that are forcing a lifestyle on others - not the other way round

The gay couple can get another baker to bake the cake.

Why? How is that right?
Should we also sit at the back of the bus and be denied a seat at the lunch counter?
Sheesh!

A lunch counter is an actual Public Accommodation.

No more or less than any other Public business with customers.

 

[AugmentedDog]

Then they put up a sign for all to see that they don't cater to weddings.......

They can still cater to certain weddings. Would you force a caterer who specializes in Jewish weddings to cater a Christian one?

Force? No. Require by law? Yes!

Requiring something by law is using force. You agree a $143k fine for not making one cake is justified?

I agree that sanctions for discrimination are justified.

you dodge the question. Is $143k fine and the ruining of the business an acceptable punishment for not baking a cake?

How about we make political affiliation a protected class, and make some hipster baker make "WE LOVE TRUMP" cakes?

Cool with me

 

[martybegan]

The gay couple can get another baker to bake the cake.

Why? How is that right?
Should we also sit at the back of the bus and be denied a seat at the lunch counter?
Sheesh!

A lunch counter is an actual Public Accommodation.

As is an open door to any business

No, it's not. The people ordering the cake are not being accommodated in public, nor is the product being provided in public. It is a contracted service for a private event.

It's a PA when they walk up and order a generic cake and walk out without any further customization or contracting between the parties. Otherwise it isn't.

Wrong

No, that's what PA laws were created to protect, lunch counters, movie theaters, restaurants, hotels, grocery stores. You idiots decided to expand it to suit your agendas.

 

[martybegan]

Seems to me that it is those businesses and "people" who support discrimination that are forcing a lifestyle on others - not the other way round

The gay couple can get another baker to bake the cake.

Why? How is that right?
Should we also sit at the back of the bus and be denied a seat at the lunch counter?
Sheesh!

A lunch counter is an actual Public Accommodation.

No more or less than any other Public business with customers.

Nope. Contracted services were never considered PA's until recently.

 

[bodecea]

So a business is a person? Sounds like you are against all business laws.......yes? Health? Safety?

Argumentum ad abusrdum. I am for the rights of the seller to be taken account of in the equation, so if there are 10 bakers in the area, and 1 doesn't want to cater to gay weddings, they are not forced to do it or face ruin.

Then they put up a sign for all to see that they don't cater to weddings.......

They can still cater to certain weddings. Would you force a caterer who specializes in Jewish weddings to cater a Christian one?

Force? No. Require by law? Yes!

Requiring something by law is using force. You agree a $143k fine for not making one cake is justified?

The fine is reasonable....especially considering it is only about HALF of what a Dentist in the same state had to pay for discriminating against someone based on THEIR religion. Same PA law.

 

[AugmentedDog]

Why? How is that right?
Should we also sit at the back of the bus and be denied a seat at the lunch counter?
Sheesh!

A lunch counter is an actual Public Accommodation.

As is an open door to any business

No, it's not. The people ordering the cake are not being accommodated in public, nor is the product being provided in public. It is a contracted service for a private event.

It's a PA when they walk up and order a generic cake and walk out without any further customization or contracting between the parties. Otherwise it isn't.

Wrong

No, that's what PA laws were created to protect, lunch counters, movie theaters, restaurants, hotels, grocery stores. You idiots decided to expand it to suit your agendas.

No, you decided to restrict it to serve yours

 

[martybegan]

They can still cater to certain weddings. Would you force a caterer who specializes in Jewish weddings to cater a Christian one?

Force? No. Require by law? Yes!

Requiring something by law is using force. You agree a $143k fine for not making one cake is justified?

I agree that sanctions for discrimination are justified.

you dodge the question. Is $143k fine and the ruining of the business an acceptable punishment for not baking a cake?

How about we make political affiliation a protected class, and make some hipster baker make "WE LOVE TRUMP" cakes?

Cool with me

I seriously doubt that. But your glee for government force is noted.

It makes you a coward unwilling to fight your own fights.

 

[bodecea]

Seems to me that it is those businesses and "people" who support discrimination that are forcing a lifestyle on others - not the other way round

The gay couple can get another baker to bake the cake.

Why? How is that right?
Should we also sit at the back of the bus and be denied a seat at the lunch counter?
Sheesh!

A lunch counter is an actual Public Accommodation.

No more or less than any other Public business with customers.

Nope. Contracted services were never considered PA's until recently.

Are contracted services businesses required to have business licenses?

 

[martybegan]

Argumentum ad abusrdum. I am for the rights of the seller to be taken account of in the equation, so if there are 10 bakers in the area, and 1 doesn't want to cater to gay weddings, they are not forced to do it or face ruin.

Then they put up a sign for all to see that they don't cater to weddings.......

They can still cater to certain weddings. Would you force a caterer who specializes in Jewish weddings to cater a Christian one?

Force? No. Require by law? Yes!

Requiring something by law is using force. You agree a $143k fine for not making one cake is justified?

The fine is reasonable....especially considering it is only about HALF of what a Dentist in the same state had to pay for discriminating against someone based on THEIR religion. Same PA law.

it is completely unreasonable, but you just like it because it ruins people you hate.

 

[bodecea]

Force? No. Require by law? Yes!

Requiring something by law is using force. You agree a $143k fine for not making one cake is justified?

I agree that sanctions for discrimination are justified.

you dodge the question. Is $143k fine and the ruining of the business an acceptable punishment for not baking a cake?

How about we make political affiliation a protected class, and make some hipster baker make "WE LOVE TRUMP" cakes?

Cool with me

I seriously doubt that. But your glee for government force is noted.

It makes you a coward unwilling to fight your own fights.

Thus says a poster who will not even make the effort to fight PA laws beyond whining about it on the internet. I've asked you on numerous occasions what you have done personally to get the PA laws in your state repealed.