Wyoming's proposed anti-LGBT law

[AugmentedDog]

Sorry to hear that someone tried to force you to be gay.

Sorry someone may ask you to spend 5 minutes going to another baker.

So....a business that seeks to open and gets a business license from the state isn't obligated to follow the business laws?

Any law cannot override constitutional protections. People have a right to free exercise of religion, and that right does not go away just because they want to sell something.

Not a free "Exercise" at all: restrictions do apply. You can believe in religious human sacrifice but you can't practice. There is no constitutional right to a baker in the public service without restriction.

It's not about no restriction, its about the least invasive response to a given restriction. Fining them $143k and forcing them out of business is not the least invasive response. Having the gay couple go to another baker is.

No. Enforcing non-discrimination laws is the proper response.

 

[martybegan]

This is what you get when you use courts to force gay marriage on places that don't want it, and force non-essential businesses to either "bake or die".

When your side becomes unreasonable, don't be surprised when the other side does the exact same thing.

Since when is the LBGT community not entitled to the same rights and protections as any other American

They may be entitled to it, but their rights do not automatically outweigh the rights of others, as in a right of a baker to not participate in a ceremony it finds sinful.

BS

Nice retort, jackass.

No, honest.
You are the one who resorted to insulting epithets.
If you wish to open a business that discriminates against anyone, make it a members only business. You'll still face law suits, but...

They don't want to discriminate against the PERSON, no one has asked to deny point of sale non customized items, they don't want to provide the cake for a SSM ceremony, something they find against their religion.

 

[martybegan]

where the public is explicitly invited onto your property
Wouldn't that include just about every business?

Yes.

No.

Yes.

No. (i can go on like this)

Yes.....a bakery has a unlocked door and probably an "OPEN" sign....inviting people in. That's how businesses make money.....customers.

and in none of these cases have they denied non custom, non contracted point of sale services. They don't want to provide a specific type of cake for a specific ceremony they find morally objectionable.

 

[martybegan]

Sorry someone may ask you to spend 5 minutes going to another baker.

So....a business that seeks to open and gets a business license from the state isn't obligated to follow the business laws?

Any law cannot override constitutional protections. People have a right to free exercise of religion, and that right does not go away just because they want to sell something.

Not a free "Exercise" at all: restrictions do apply. You can believe in religious human sacrifice but you can't practice. There is no constitutional right to a baker in the public service without restriction.

It's not about no restriction, its about the least invasive response to a given restriction. Fining them $143k and forcing them out of business is not the least invasive response. Having the gay couple go to another baker is.

No. Enforcing non-discrimination laws is the proper response.

So, BAKE OR DIE, right?

 

[AugmentedDog]

Since when is the LBGT community not entitled to the same rights and protections as any other American

They may be entitled to it, but their rights do not automatically outweigh the rights of others, as in a right of a baker to not participate in a ceremony it finds sinful.

BS

Nice retort, jackass.

No, honest.
You are the one who resorted to insulting epithets.
If you wish to open a business that discriminates against anyone, make it a members only business. You'll still face law suits, but...

They don't want to discriminate against the PERSON, no one has asked to deny point of sale non customized items, they don't want to provide the cake for a SSM ceremony, something they find against their religion.

Too bad. And yes, they do

 

[martybegan]

Depends on the Court.

Still the fault of the LGBT progressive extremists who feel the need to force their views on others.

Sorry to hear that someone tried to force you to be gay.

Sorry someone may ask you to spend 5 minutes going to another baker.

So....a business that seeks to open and gets a business license from the state isn't obligated to follow the business laws?

Any law cannot override constitutional protections. People have a right to free exercise of religion, and that right does not go away just because they want to sell something.

So a business is a person? Sounds like you are against all business laws.......yes? Health? Safety?

Argumentum ad abusrdum. I am for the rights of the seller to be taken account of in the equation, so if there are 10 bakers in the area, and 1 doesn't want to cater to gay weddings, they are not forced to do it or face ruin.

 

[bodecea]

that discrimination was never as systemic as racial discrimination in the South, and was not against as large of a population. Gays also had the advantage of "hiding in plain sight" that blacks never had, unless they could "pass".

And when was it a felony to be black? Because until the 1960's sodomy was a felony in every state. And you know very well that even in the states where sodomy was illegal for heterosexuals as well, that it was never enforced to near the degree of their use as anti-gay laws.

If some baker didn't want to serve blacks, and there were plenty of bakers around to cover it, why not just let the market handle it?

I'm not aware of that ever working, can you give an example

But where were you and other Christians when Muslim taxi drivers were fined for refusing to transport passengers with alcohol or dogs? Where will you stand when a Muslim refuses service to a woman who isn't properly covered?

Yes, and those laws were wrong and should have been repealed. Government should not be in someone's bedroom, just as it shouldn't be in someone's bakery unless the discrimination is systemic and has a definitive economic impact.

Government should not be in someone's bakery? So you are opposed to a business like a bakery having to follow health standards of the Health department too.

Argumentum ad absurdum. And health standards in general are not usually against a religion. Now if the health standards ban Halal slaughter, that would be an issue, and has been an issue in several locations. Are you in favor of health regulations that ban Halal slaughter?

Also, take the freedom issue up with the raw milk people, who have to fight government to get a product they want, they agree may be a risk, but can't get it due to health regulations. Also look up un pasturized cheese fights.

Your own posts admits that you believe a business should be allowed to pick and choose which business laws to follow......because.

 

[martybegan]

They may be entitled to it, but their rights do not automatically outweigh the rights of others, as in a right of a baker to not participate in a ceremony it finds sinful.

BS

Nice retort, jackass.

No, honest.
You are the one who resorted to insulting epithets.
If you wish to open a business that discriminates against anyone, make it a members only business. You'll still face law suits, but...

They don't want to discriminate against the PERSON, no one has asked to deny point of sale non customized items, they don't want to provide the cake for a SSM ceremony, something they find against their religion.

Too bad. And yes, they do

So, BAKE or DIE, right?

 

[martybegan]

that discrimination was never as systemic as racial discrimination in the South, and was not against as large of a population. Gays also had the advantage of "hiding in plain sight" that blacks never had, unless they could "pass".

And when was it a felony to be black? Because until the 1960's sodomy was a felony in every state. And you know very well that even in the states where sodomy was illegal for heterosexuals as well, that it was never enforced to near the degree of their use as anti-gay laws.

If some baker didn't want to serve blacks, and there were plenty of bakers around to cover it, why not just let the market handle it?

I'm not aware of that ever working, can you give an example

But where were you and other Christians when Muslim taxi drivers were fined for refusing to transport passengers with alcohol or dogs? Where will you stand when a Muslim refuses service to a woman who isn't properly covered?

Yes, and those laws were wrong and should have been repealed. Government should not be in someone's bedroom, just as it shouldn't be in someone's bakery unless the discrimination is systemic and has a definitive economic impact.

Government should not be in someone's bakery? So you are opposed to a business like a bakery having to follow health standards of the Health department too.

Argumentum ad absurdum. And health standards in general are not usually against a religion. Now if the health standards ban Halal slaughter, that would be an issue, and has been an issue in several locations. Are you in favor of health regulations that ban Halal slaughter?

Also, take the freedom issue up with the raw milk people, who have to fight government to get a product they want, they agree may be a risk, but can't get it due to health regulations. Also look up un pasturized cheese fights.

Your own posts admits that you believe a business should be allowed to pick and choose which business laws to follow......because.

not at all. I have actually posted I support PA laws for actual PA's. You just want to force everyone to accept your lifestyle via government force.

That makes you more of an asshole than the bakers.

 

[Dragonlady]

That's it exactly, Marty, local elities can't block civil rights.

Period.

So, if the WY lege passes it and the Gov signs it, the legislation then goes to federal court and will be overturned.

Waste of the taxpayers' money.

Depends on the Court.

Still the fault of the LGBT progressive extremists who feel the need to force their views on others.

Yes, if you're not straight, white, male and conservative, you have no right to expect any rights whatsoever, because the US is a straight while male nation, for straight white males only.

 

[martybegan]

That's it exactly, Marty, local elities can't block civil rights.

Period.

So, if the WY lege passes it and the Gov signs it, the legislation then goes to federal court and will be overturned.

Waste of the taxpayers' money.

Depends on the Court.

Still the fault of the LGBT progressive extremists who feel the need to force their views on others.

Yes, if you're not straight, white, male and conservative, you have no right to expect any rights whatsoever, because the US is a straight while male nation, for straight white males only.

Where in the constitution is the right to a cake from a specific baker for your wedding?

 

[bodecea]

Sorry to hear that someone tried to force you to be gay.

Sorry someone may ask you to spend 5 minutes going to another baker.

So....a business that seeks to open and gets a business license from the state isn't obligated to follow the business laws?

Any law cannot override constitutional protections. People have a right to free exercise of religion, and that right does not go away just because they want to sell something.

So a business is a person? Sounds like you are against all business laws.......yes? Health? Safety?

Argumentum ad abusrdum. I am for the rights of the seller to be taken account of in the equation, so if there are 10 bakers in the area, and 1 doesn't want to cater to gay weddings, they are not forced to do it or face ruin.

Then they put up a sign for all to see that they don't cater to weddings.......

 

[AugmentedDog]

Seems to me that it is those businesses and "people" who support discrimination that are forcing a lifestyle on others - not the other way round

 

[AugmentedDog]

BS

Nice retort, jackass.

No, honest.
You are the one who resorted to insulting epithets.
If you wish to open a business that discriminates against anyone, make it a members only business. You'll still face law suits, but...

They don't want to discriminate against the PERSON, no one has asked to deny point of sale non customized items, they don't want to provide the cake for a SSM ceremony, something they find against their religion.

Too bad. And yes, they do

So, BAKE or DIE, right?

No. Just bake

 

[bodecea]

That's it exactly, Marty, local elities can't block civil rights.

Period.

So, if the WY lege passes it and the Gov signs it, the legislation then goes to federal court and will be overturned.

Waste of the taxpayers' money.

Depends on the Court.

Still the fault of the LGBT progressive extremists who feel the need to force their views on others.

Yes, if you're not straight, white, male and conservative, you have no right to expect any rights whatsoever, because the US is a straight while male nation, for straight white males only.

Where in the constitution is the right to a cake from a specific baker for your wedding?

Where is it in the Constitution (always capitalized) that all American citizens get equal treatment under the law.....and a PA law is a law. A business law is a law. But you are free to get enough like-minded citizens to repeal such a PA law in your state. Why isn't Wyoming going that route?

 

[martybegan]

Sorry someone may ask you to spend 5 minutes going to another baker.

So....a business that seeks to open and gets a business license from the state isn't obligated to follow the business laws?

Any law cannot override constitutional protections. People have a right to free exercise of religion, and that right does not go away just because they want to sell something.

So a business is a person? Sounds like you are against all business laws.......yes? Health? Safety?

Argumentum ad abusrdum. I am for the rights of the seller to be taken account of in the equation, so if there are 10 bakers in the area, and 1 doesn't want to cater to gay weddings, they are not forced to do it or face ruin.

Then they put up a sign for all to see that they don't cater to weddings.......

They can still cater to certain weddings. Would you force a caterer who specializes in Jewish weddings to cater a Christian one?

 

[martybegan]

Seems to me that it is those businesses and "people" who support discrimination that are forcing a lifestyle on others - not the other way round

The gay couple can get another baker to bake the cake.

 

[AugmentedDog]

Seems to me that it is those businesses and "people" who support discrimination that are forcing a lifestyle on others - not the other way round

The gay couple can get another baker to bake the cake.

Why? How is that right?
Should we also sit at the back of the bus and be denied a seat at the lunch counter?
Sheesh!

 

[martybegan]

That's it exactly, Marty, local elities can't block civil rights.

Period.

So, if the WY lege passes it and the Gov signs it, the legislation then goes to federal court and will be overturned.

Waste of the taxpayers' money.

Depends on the Court.

Still the fault of the LGBT progressive extremists who feel the need to force their views on others.

Yes, if you're not straight, white, male and conservative, you have no right to expect any rights whatsoever, because the US is a straight while male nation, for straight white males only.

Where in the constitution is the right to a cake from a specific baker for your wedding?

Where is it in the Constitution (always capitalized) that all American citizens get equal treatment under the law.....and a PA law is a law. A business law is a law. But you are free to get enough like-minded citizens to repeal such a PA law in your state. Why isn't Wyoming going that route?

Equal treatment under the law doesn't mean government can force people to treat others a certain way, unless there is a compelling government interest. Some couple's butt hurt isn't a compelling government interest.

And PA laws do have a function, they are just being applied to things that are not PA's.

And your sides insistence on compliance "or else" is what gets you things like Wyoming's law. Being unwilling to compromise results in you dealing with uncompromising people.

 

[martybegan]

Nice retort, jackass.

No, honest.
You are the one who resorted to insulting epithets.
If you wish to open a business that discriminates against anyone, make it a members only business. You'll still face law suits, but...

They don't want to discriminate against the PERSON, no one has asked to deny point of sale non customized items, they don't want to provide the cake for a SSM ceremony, something they find against their religion.

Too bad. And yes, they do

So, BAKE or DIE, right?

No. Just bake

or else what?