$10.10. A killer for the rich.

Why would lenders do that?

Why do lenders lend money?

To make money, duh.

Why do you ask these stupid questions? Oh wait, you support a $23.50 an hour minimum wage. Never mind...

Lenders lend money to individuals that don't have the ability to pay to make money? Sure they do.

When they have a monetary incentive? Absolutely. Notice, I said they lend to make money, not necessarily money from the borrower. Example, the subprime mortgage crisis, lenders at banks were given monetary incentives to provide unqualified borrowers loans they could not afford.
 
Every time in the last 70 years or so that the minimum wage has been raised, the economy went right into the shitter.

You'd think they'd learn by now.

FALSE! Exactly the opposite was the result. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to point that out. Raising the minimum wage boosts the economy by putting more money into the hands of lower-income Americans, who are most likely to spend it. It also keeps more workers on the job, preventing the employers from having to spend more money training new workers.

Examples >>> US minimum wage was raised on May1, 1974 when the US economy was (to use your expression) "in the shitter". Right after that MW raise, workers started spending more with their higher paychecks and the economy boomed > went from minus GDP growth quarters before the raise to heights of 8.2, 9.4, and 16.7% in quarters after the raise (1975-1978), with MW raise in every one of those boom years. In 1979 and 1980 (when there were MW increases also) the economy posted gains in GDP growth.

Likewise, in 1996 and 1997 (MW increases both years), the economy boomed again, with continuous impressive GDP growths in every quarter afterwards, right up until 2001 (when maybe they should have had another MW increase then)

http://www.dol.gov/whd/minwage/chart.htm

United States Economy Expands 3.2% in Q4 | Actual Data | Forecasts
 
i'm curious here....10 workers full time would be 400 hrs per week or 1600 hrs labor per month...

let's say she was paying them $8 per hour and now has to pay $10 per hour.....this equals an extra $2 X 1600 hrs....if you can't cut labor back where does that extra $3,200 come from.....?

seems to me that many small businesses are just squeaking by.....barely making rent and payroll.....if the extra bucks have to come out of the owner's income or savings which may be already pared way back....this could cause alot of small enterprises to go OUT of business....

Don't you read the quotes that you quote ? The answer is RIGHT THERE in # 3 of that quote you just quoted. And remember. There's a lot more customers than there are employees.

Bottom line though is, no matter what the disposable income is, raising prices and laying off workers both create LOSSES not gains, so why would anybody do what causes them to LOSE money ?

Magic money, how stupid do you think we think you are?
HA HA> This is too funny. Actually it's kind of sad > when millions of high school students understand the SIMPLE relationship between prices and business income, and you sit here bewildered by it. Pheeew! Somebody please help this poor soul. I've done all I can.

So what do you think determines a price of a product ? Somebody's lucky number ? Somebody's favorite football player's jersey number ? Pheeeeeww!

EARTH to BEWILDERED WINDBAG: If you thought that sellers could raise their prices anytime they want, so as to increase income, then why didn't they do that BEFORE a MW hike ? And if they could do that, then why isn't every product on the shelf selling for a MILLION $$$$$$$$$$$$ ??? Think about it, BW. THINK!

Just maybe it's because THEY"RE LIMITED by the MARKET ? By what a particular price can generate in SALES ??? You think ????

And oh, I just loved that "She had 10 workers because that is how many she had" answer you came up with ? HA HA. Yeah. That was a gem. I guess you think it had nothing to do with how many sales could be generated by the different #s of employees, right ?
Right, QW ? Right ? Right ? Click the link.

http://i44.tinypic.com/29apboi.jpg

As for your original question >> "how stupid do you think we think you are?" Answer: You don't "think" AT ALL. As for how stupid do I think you are, >> VERY stupid.
 
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i'm curious here....10 workers full time would be 400 hrs per week or 1600 hrs labor per month...

let's say she was paying them $8 per hour and now has to pay $10 per hour.....this equals an extra $2 X 1600 hrs....if you can't cut labor back where does that extra $3,200 come from.....?

seems to me that many small businesses are just squeaking by.....barely making rent and payroll.....if the extra bucks have to come out of the owner's income or savings which may be already pared way back....this could cause alot of small enterprises to go OUT of business....

Don't you read the quotes that you quote ? The answer is RIGHT THERE in # 3 of that quote you just quoted. And remember. There's a lot more customers than there are employees.

Bottom line though is, no matter what the disposable income is, raising prices and laying off workers both create LOSSES not gains, so why would anybody do what causes them to LOSE money ?

how many more customers (income) would it take to make up that extra $3,200 per month or $38,400 per year....to support the new cost of labor.....?

let's say the average percentage of payroll to gross revenues is 20%.....that means the store would have to do an extra $192,000 worth of business....to support a $2 raise for each of the 10 employees...

No let's not say, because you don't know that or anything close to it. Making up numbers doesn't fly, dude. Talk facts, not off the wall conjecture. You need not pursue this. You got info enough. If the MW goes up, a small number of employees' raises costs the firm a bit more, and a VERY large number of customers' bigger paychecks GAINS it mucho $$$ in increased sales. In the overwhelming majority of cases, the increased sales by far surpasses the increased cost. That's why when a MW hike from $4/hour to $6/hour (a whopping 50% increase), was proposed in Florida in the early 90s by then state Sen. Jack Gordon, it was not opposed by 99% of Florida businesses. Only ones that opposed it were supermarkets. Can you guess why only THEM ?
 
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Why did Obama ask for a $10.10 minimum wage? All this will do is take away the power of the government from the private sector and put in the hands of a bunch of senseless Americans. We as Americans must realize that the rich are the people that offer the true economic opportunities that this nation has to offer. The $10.10 minimum wage will bring the social classes together and there won't be any room for mobility. We must keep corporate America.


That has to be sarcasm, right?
 
Don't you read the quotes that you quote ? The answer is RIGHT THERE in # 3 of that quote you just quoted. And remember. There's a lot more customers than there are employees.

Bottom line though is, no matter what the disposable income is, raising prices and laying off workers both create LOSSES not gains, so why would anybody do what causes them to LOSE money ?

Magic money, how stupid do you think we think you are?
HA HA> This is too funny. Actually it's kind of sad > when millions of high school students understand the SIMPLE relationship between prices and business income, and you sit here bewildered by it. Pheeew! Somebody please help this poor soul. I've done all I can.

So what do you think determines a price of a product ? Somebody's lucky number ? Somebody's favorite football player's jersey number ? Pheeeeeww!

EARTH to BEWILDERED WINDBAG: If you thought that sellers could raise their prices anytime they want, so as to increase income, then why didn't they do that BEFORE a MW hike ? And if they could do that, then why isn't every product on the shelf selling for a MILLION $$$$$$$$$$$$ ??? Think about it, BW. THINK!

Just maybe it's because THEY"RE LIMITED by the MARKET ? By what a particular price can generate in SALES ??? You think ????

And oh, I just loved that "She had 10 workers because that is how many she had" answer you came up with ? HA HA. Yeah. That was a gem. I guess you think it had nothing to do with how many sales could be generated by the different #s of employees, right ?
Right, QW ? Right ? Right ? Click the link.

http://i44.tinypic.com/29apboi.jpg

As for your original question >> "how stupid do you think we think you are?" Answer: You don't "think" AT ALL. As for how stupid do I think you are, >> VERY stupid.

If it worked your way you would be richer than Bill Gates, if it works mine you won't.

Are you richer than Bill?
 
Every time in the last 70 years or so that the minimum wage has been raised, the economy went right into the shitter.

You'd think they'd learn by now.

FALSE! Exactly the opposite was the result. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to point that out. Raising the minimum wage boosts the economy by putting more money into the hands of lower-income .....

Chinese, South Koreans.....


1. You forgot one thing. In order for businesses to close up and move to China or South Korea, there are enormous COSTS involved. Want to close down a machine shop or a production line with 100 machines in it (weighing tons) and ship it all to the Far East ? Or maybe you think you can just sell them all. and then buy new ones when you get to China, huh ? Hey buddy, I'll give you $20 for that lathe. :lol: Fact is, for the overwhelming number of production companies, moving to another country simply isnt ECONOMICAL, or anything close to it.

2. I read your link. You get E for effort (that's halfway between a D and an F). Oh nice try. Right. Find a college professor of economics who's written a few books and act like that makes his view unrefutable. Well, I'm a former college professor of economics who has written books on economics (and other subjects) too, so your Walter E. Block doesn't impress me one iota. If I had a dollar bill for every college professor whose ideas are a laughingstock (like this guy), I could buy a new Cadillac with it. Want to talk about the professor who calls Osama bin Laden a "freedom fighter" ?

Sorry Wally, but your long yak in LewRockwell.com doesn't fly, no matter how many big words you throw into it. In fact, I've already refuted it right here in this thread, with the example of my ex-wife's boutique. And my example was pure "praexeological" (one of Wally's big words) :lol: See Post # 263
 
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Why did Obama ask for a $10.10 minimum wage? All this will do is take away the power of the government from the private sector and put in the hands of a bunch of senseless Americans. We as Americans must realize that the rich are the people that offer the true economic opportunities that this nation has to offer. The $10.10 minimum wage will bring the social classes together and there won't be any room for mobility. We must keep corporate America.

Not one of rich will be affected and YOU know it!
Your facetiousness ignores the FACT there are about 104,000 people that will be affected in that since most of them are low skilled workers i.e. janitors/dish washers here is what will happen:
Janitors will be replaced by robo sweepers that sell for $300.. replace plenty of these dust busters!
Automatic dishwashers costs for high volume food locations about $6,000... equal to the pay increase for ONE dishwasher worker!

Unemployment will increase. Is that what Obama wants??

Unemployment will not increase. It never has, and money paid to employees is deductible,
See:

Salaries and Wages - What you can Deduct as Business Expenses
 
Magic money, how stupid do you think we think you are?
HA HA> This is too funny. Actually it's kind of sad > when millions of high school students understand the SIMPLE relationship between prices and business income, and you sit here bewildered by it. Pheeew! Somebody please help this poor soul. I've done all I can.

So what do you think determines a price of a product ? Somebody's lucky number ? Somebody's favorite football player's jersey number ? Pheeeeeww!

EARTH to BEWILDERED WINDBAG: If you thought that sellers could raise their prices anytime they want, so as to increase income, then why didn't they do that BEFORE a MW hike ? And if they could do that, then why isn't every product on the shelf selling for a MILLION $$$$$$$$$$$$ ??? Think about it, BW. THINK!

Just maybe it's because THEY"RE LIMITED by the MARKET ? By what a particular price can generate in SALES ??? You think ????

And oh, I just loved that "She had 10 workers because that is how many she had" answer you came up with ? HA HA. Yeah. That was a gem. I guess you think it had nothing to do with how many sales could be generated by the different #s of employees, right ?
Right, QW ? Right ? Right ? Click the link.

http://i44.tinypic.com/29apboi.jpg

As for your original question >> "how stupid do you think we think you are?" Answer: You don't "think" AT ALL. As for how stupid do I think you are, >> VERY stupid.

If it worked your way you would be richer than Bill Gates, if it works mine you won't.

Are you richer than Bill?

Sorry Bewildered one. Your question arrived long after my collection of questions (which you've DODGED every one of). So AFTER you answer my questions, THEN I might consider answering yours (if I'm in a good mood that day)

So you've got some questions to answer. We're all waiting...waiting....waiting.
 
Why did Obama ask for a $10.10 minimum wage? All this will do is take away the power of the government from the private sector and put in the hands of a bunch of senseless Americans. We as Americans must realize that the rich are the people that offer the true economic opportunities that this nation has to offer. The $10.10 minimum wage will bring the social classes together and there won't be any room for mobility. We must keep corporate America.

$10.10 minimum wage will not impact the rich one bit. It will hurt small service business and retail industries.
 
Why did Obama ask for a $10.10 minimum wage? All this will do is take away the power of the government from the private sector and put in the hands of a bunch of senseless Americans. We as Americans must realize that the rich are the people that offer the true economic opportunities that this nation has to offer. The $10.10 minimum wage will bring the social classes together and there won't be any room for mobility. We must keep corporate America.

Not one of rich will be affected and YOU know it!
Your facetiousness ignores the FACT there are about 104,000 people that will be affected in that since most of them are low skilled workers i.e. janitors/dish washers here is what will happen:
Janitors will be replaced by robo sweepers that sell for $300.. replace plenty of these dust busters!
Automatic dishwashers costs for high volume food locations about $6,000... equal to the pay increase for ONE dishwasher worker!

Unemployment will increase. Is that what Obama wants??

Unemployment will not increase. It never has, and money paid to employees is deductible,
See:

Salaries and Wages - What you can Deduct as Business Expenses

Amazing how the business owner community come unglued when we challenge their precious myth about unemployment increasing. They get spoiled after believing it was untouchable, as they thought they had it as a sure weapon that would always work against MW raisers.

The paradoxical thing about about it is though, that almost all business will GAIN from a minimum wage raise (not lose), from the enormous rise in disposable income, one of the few engines that can really energetically boost SALES$$$.

Not a word about that from these paranoics on that. They've been conditioned and programmed quite well by the BIG businesses (primarily oil companies, supermarkets and department stores) who have very large numbers of MW workers, and who therefore gain less than the smaller companies. Even they however, do make substantial gains which offset their large labor cost losses, because like anyone else, they sell more, after MW increases, than they did before.

Interesting to note that the only ones who have a lesser gain from the increase disposable income might be the oil companies and supermarkets. Why ? Because the products they sell are things that people HAVE TO HAVE, and are going to buy no matter what. Mothers are still going to buy milk for their babies. Motorists are still going to buy gasoline (even though they may grumble more at the increased prices).

So these guys might not gain much from the DI increases, HOWEVER, this may not be as true as some economists might think, either. Take a walk through your local large supermarket and just look at how many non-essential items are on the shelves. The list of DONT-HAVE-TO-HAVES could number in the thousands. Just going through the spices and sauces section there are too many to even comprehend. In addition, to non-essential foods, supermarkets also sell magazines, T-shirts, CDs, hair colorings, etc. And with the gas stations, well, motorists have gotten tougher with them in recent years. People have devised ways to save on gas with coupons, store discounts, driving less, and switching to smaller cars and/or hybrids.

Still and all, one would think that small business owners would not be so brainwashed by the big boys, and realize that if the people living around their stores don't have any money in their pockets, this makes it harder to sell their stuff. My biggest frustration when I owned a business selling club memberships for $1000 apiece, was all the callers who, when I asked how much they could pay for a down payment, they, day after day, replied "Uh, ten bucks". And guess why they could only pay $10, and were so broke. Guess why I lost all those SALES$$$. Because somebody out there is paying them a very low minimum wage. THAT'S WHY. I wonder what it takes for this to begin focus for all those brainwashed sellers out there.
 
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Why did Obama ask for a $10.10 minimum wage? All this will do is take away the power of the government from the private sector and put in the hands of a bunch of senseless Americans. We as Americans must realize that the rich are the people that offer the true economic opportunities that this nation has to offer. The $10.10 minimum wage will bring the social classes together and there won't be any room for mobility. We must keep corporate America.

$10.10 minimum wage will not impact the rich one bit. It will hurt small service business and retail industries.

FALSE! Exactly the opposite is true, as I just explained in the previous post (# 292)
 
Why did Obama ask for a $10.10 minimum wage? All this will do is take away the power of the government from the private sector and put in the hands of a bunch of senseless Americans. We as Americans must realize that the rich are the people that offer the true economic opportunities that this nation has to offer. The $10.10 minimum wage will bring the social classes together and there won't be any room for mobility. We must keep corporate America.

$10.10 minimum wage will not impact the rich one bit. It will hurt small service business and retail industries.

Wages and salaries paid to employees are tax deductible.

As the minimum wage goes up, so does the tax deduction for those wages.

There is probably no better tax situation to be in than being self employed or owning a small business.
 
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Why did Obama ask for a $10.10 minimum wage? All this will do is take away the power of the government from the private sector and put in the hands of a bunch of senseless Americans. We as Americans must realize that the rich are the people that offer the true economic opportunities that this nation has to offer. The $10.10 minimum wage will bring the social classes together and there won't be any room for mobility. We must keep corporate America.

$10.10 minimum wage will not impact the rich one bit. It will hurt small service business and retail industries.

Wages and salaries paid to employees are tax deductible.

As the minimum wage goes up, so does the tax deduction for those wages.

There is no better tax situation to be in than owning a small business.

salaries are not a "tax deduction" they are on the expense side of your Schedule C. income minus expenses = taxable profit.

when a business is forced to increase its labor cost, its profit goes down unless it increases the price of its products by a like amount.

but this whole minimum wage discussion is a red herring, only 1% of american workers make minimum wage and the vast majority of them are part time teens.

its a false issue pushed by the dems and media as a way to divide the country.
 
Obama is trying to show folks that he cares about them by raising the minimum-wage. He's only doing it because businesses know raising the MW will destroy jobs. And who supports businesses? Republicans.

Maybe 200,000 people make minimum-wage. The only effect this will have is further job cuts when we need job growth. Every time the Dems get into trouble they go back to the same destructive policies. Raise the MW, promise a new expensive program for the poor or for select groups like minorities and women, and telling everyone how much you care for them with your warm and fuzzy rhetoric. BTW, where in America is $10.10/hr a living wage? The only person that can live off of that is a student living with his parents.

Obama lied to us about our health care. He repeatedly lied. When you lie to someone it means you don't respect them and it means you don't care about them. This useless gesture isn't going to convince anyone but a low-information voter that this tyrant gives a damn about them.

The problem with Democrats like Obama is they claim they want to create opportunity when in fact they only want to create dependency. You can't tell me that you really care about people when you stifle growth and create dependency everywhere you go. But that is what Democrats are about.
 
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$10.10 minimum wage will not impact the rich one bit. It will hurt small service business and retail industries.

Wages and salaries paid to employees are tax deductible.

As the minimum wage goes up, so does the tax deduction for those wages.

There is no better tax situation to be in than owning a small business.

salaries are not a "tax deduction" they are on the expense side of your Schedule C. income minus expenses = taxable profit.

when a business is forced to increase its labor cost, its profit goes down unless it increases the price of its products by a like amount.

but this whole minimum wage discussion is a red herring, only 1% of american workers make minimum wage and the vast majority of them are part time teens.

its a false issue pushed by the dems and media as a way to divide the country.

Now that is funny. You think MacDonald s and Walmart file sch C's? LMAO.

1% (your number) makes minimum wage. And yet that one percent is going to severely impact the profitability of multi billion dollar companies. What you mean to say is that the top 3 percent of executives might not get their multi million dollar bonuses. Like any one should give a flying fuck if some executive who is already overpaid doesn't get his millions in bonus.

But back to that 1% comment. Why in the hell are you repubs so batshit crazy over a minimal wage increase for 1% of the workforce?

Don't you think that makes you all look a little petty?
 
Why did Obama ask for a $10.10 minimum wage? All this will do is take away the power of the government from the private sector and put in the hands of a bunch of senseless Americans. We as Americans must realize that the rich are the people that offer the true economic opportunities that this nation has to offer. The $10.10 minimum wage will bring the social classes together and there won't be any room for mobility. We must keep corporate America.

$10.10 minimum wage will not impact the rich one bit. It will hurt small service business and retail industries.

Wages and salaries paid to employees are tax deductible.

As the minimum wage goes up, so does the tax deduction for those wages.

There is probably no better tax situation to be in than being self employed or owning a small business.

Workman's comp goes up payroll taxes go up state and federal unemployment taxes go up

Therefore prices must go up.

An expense is an expense. No one who knows anything about business spends money solely for a tax deduction.

Besides Obama was only talking about raising the minimum wage for federal contract workers not the entire country and the number of federal contract workers who make less than 10 an hour is puny.
 
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Not one of rich will be affected and YOU know it!
Your facetiousness ignores the FACT there are about 104,000 people that will be affected in that since most of them are low skilled workers i.e. janitors/dish washers here is what will happen:
Janitors will be replaced by robo sweepers that sell for $300.. replace plenty of these dust busters!
Automatic dishwashers costs for high volume food locations about $6,000... equal to the pay increase for ONE dishwasher worker!

Unemployment will increase. Is that what Obama wants??

Unemployment will not increase. It never has, and money paid to employees is deductible,
See:

Salaries and Wages - What you can Deduct as Business Expenses

Amazing how the business owner community come unglued when we challenge their precious myth about unemployment increasing. They get spoiled after believing it was untouchable, as they thought they had it as a sure weapon that would always work against MW raisers.

The paradoxical thing about about it is though, that almost all business will GAIN from a minimum wage raise (not lose), from the enormous rise in disposable income, one of the few engines that can really energetically boost SALES$$$.

Not a word about that from these paranoics on that. They've been conditioned and programmed quite well by the BIG businesses (primarily oil companies, supermarkets and department stores) who have very large numbers of MW workers, and who therefore gain less than the smaller companies. Even they however, do make substantial gains which offset their large labor cost losses, because like anyone else, they sell more, after MW increases, than they did before.

Interesting to note that the only ones who have a lesser gain from the increase disposable income might be the oil companies and supermarkets. Why ? Because the products they sell are things that people HAVE TO HAVE, and are going to buy no matter what. Mothers are still going to buy milk for their babies. Motorists are still going to buy gasoline (even though they may grumble more at the increased prices).

So these guys might not gain much from the DI increases, HOWEVER, this may not be as true as some economists might think, either. Take a walk through your local large supermarket and just look at how many non-essential items are on the shelves. The list of DONT-HAVE-TO-HAVES could number in the thousands. Just going through the spices and sauces section there are too many to even comprehend. In addition, to non-essential foods, supermarkets also sell magazines, T-shirts, CDs, hair colorings, etc. And with the gas stations, well, motorists have gotten tougher with them in recent years. People have devised ways to save on gas with coupons, store discounts, driving less, and switching to smaller cars and/or hybrids.

Still and all, one would think that small business owners would not be so brainwashed by the big boys, and realize that if the people living around their stores don't have any money in their pockets, this makes it harder to sell their stuff. My biggest frustration when I owned a business selling club memberships for $1000 apiece, was all the callers who, when I asked how much they could pay for a down payment, they, day after day, replied "Uh, ten bucks". And guess why they could only pay $10, and were so broke. Guess why I lost all those SALES$$$. Because somebody out there is paying them a very low minimum wage. THAT'S WHY. I wonder what it takes for this to begin focus for all those brainwashed sellers out there.

What a bunch of hogwash. Artificially raising wages only increases the costs of everything else, especially in the food industry. It also only applies to full-time help, which means more people will have their hours cut, thus less earnings. This country will soon discover that laws like Obamacare and this latest fiasco is creating an underground of part-timers that have to hold down 3 jobs to pay their bills. The health problems that arise from overwork and lack of sleep will be felt not long after. The result will be like in Europe where the workers only work half of the year then collect unemployment the rest of the year.

Nevermind the fact that you can't get a meal at a fast food restaurant anymore that will be under $20. The result, more lost jobs.
 
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Wages and salaries paid to employees are tax deductible.

As the minimum wage goes up, so does the tax deduction for those wages.

There is no better tax situation to be in than owning a small business.

salaries are not a "tax deduction" they are on the expense side of your Schedule C. income minus expenses = taxable profit.

when a business is forced to increase its labor cost, its profit goes down unless it increases the price of its products by a like amount.

but this whole minimum wage discussion is a red herring, only 1% of american workers make minimum wage and the vast majority of them are part time teens.

its a false issue pushed by the dems and media as a way to divide the country.

Now that is funny. You think MacDonald s and Walmart file sch C's? LMAO.

1% (your number) makes minimum wage. And yet that one percent is going to severely impact the profitability of multi billion dollar companies. What you mean to say is that the top 3 percent of executives might not get their multi million dollar bonuses. Like any one should give a flying fuck if some executive who is already overpaid doesn't get his millions in bonus.

But back to that 1% comment. Why in the hell are you repubs so batshit crazy over a minimal wage increase for 1% of the workforce?

Don't you think that makes you all look a little petty?

Of course McDonalds restaurants file Schedule C's. every small and large business has to do that.

The point is that raising the minimum wage will cause these businesses to either reduce staff or raise the price of a burger. Do you think an individual McDonalds makes a high profit margin and can just absorb higher labor costs?

It will have zero affect on the CEO's bonus. It will only affect the part timers who are let go and/or the consumers of burgers who will have to pay more for each burger.

Its really a tiny issue that has been blown up to create another wedge issue between the rich and poor. Its propaganda.
 

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