11 Year Old Girl Is Pregnant, Sparks Abortion Debate

[FA_Q2]

Could an 11 year old survive an abortion?
Why is abortion the first avenue here?

Abortion should be a necessity, not an ambivalent choice of convenience.

Why is abortion the first avenue here?

Because XXXXXX Noomi wants to dictate to the little people's countries what they may and may not legislate.

IOW, their laws should stay out of their own doctors' offices, but Noomi should be allowed to come and go with finger-pointing even though she doesn't have to go there and live with her decisions on people whose mores she abhors.

Abortion should be the first and only option because this is an 11 year old CHILD!

That is barbaric as having abortion denied. As wrong as it is for someone to force that child to get an abortion, it is equally wrong to require it.

The choice should be hers and no one else.

 

[Katzndogz]

Abortionists do everything they can to protect the rapists of under age girls. If someone wanted to reduce rape instead of increase abortion they would be demanding that abortion providers turn over the names. They would have fought over the counter plan b with no age restriction.!

 

[PaulS1950]

Sometimes our moral issues conflict with laws. The law trumps personal morality every time.
In this case a foreign country has different laws than we do. That is their right as a sovereign nation.
Trying to push a sovereign nation to change their laws makes as much sense as allowing Muslims to insert Sharia laws on the United States. None at all!

I feel for this girl and I also feel for the life within her but I can't dictate to her or her country what they should do - I am not even sure what she wants or what I would do in her place. The only debate sparked is apparently here in the USA and not in Chile at all. We can't agree with what is right or even best for our own people how can we believe that we have the answers for another country?

 

[Amelia]

Sometimes our moral issues conflict with laws. The law trumps personal morality every time.
In this case a foreign country has different laws than we do. That is their right as a sovereign nation.
Trying to push a sovereign nation to change their laws makes as much sense as allowing Muslims to insert Sharia laws on the United States. None at all!

I feel for this girl and I also feel for the life within her but I can't dictate to her or her country what they should do - I am not even sure what she wants or what I would do in her place. The only debate sparked is apparently here in the USA and not in Chile at all. We can't agree with what is right or even best for our own people how can we believe that we have the answers for another country?

The OP gave a link from Australia. Whatever the extent of the debate it is not limited to the U.S.

How would you fairly conclude what the extent of the debate is in Chile? An English-based google search wouldn't suffice.

 

[Flopper]

That is not the only issue.

The slob needs to go to prison. The courts have time to judge him and hopefully put him away for a long time.

The 11-year-old victim faces a very real issue right now, a very real threat to her life. How is that not an "issue"?


How can people be so cavalier about her insides being pulverized by this pregnancy and her life possibly being ended? The 11-year-old child's needs should trump the needs of the unborn child. She's there. She needs help. Whatever happens to the perp, this child deserves to live. Unless you subscribe to the Rick Santorum/Sharron Angle school of thought. I'm a rightwinger, but I don't subscribe to that school of thought and as long as there are noisy rightwingers out there who do, then it's a good thing there are people who will stop them from having too much impact on our laws.

Well unless we plan on invading and taking over the country, not a lot of what we think really matters. We have no say what goes on in Chile

if it was up to me, he wouldn't be going to jail. he would be shot on the spot.

True, we have no say about what goes on in Chile. Unless somehow the sheer volume of worldwide revulsion might make Chile decide they could relax the law for medical cases, or at least in the case of this individual child might help mobilize resources to get this child to the help she needs.

Regardless of what happens in Chile, we can use it as a lesson of possible consequences of extremism here. From the individual consequences on the lives of children who could be deprived of lifesaving medical procedures, to the political consequences of rallying behind extremists like Santorum. I don't believe that we'll ever go back to a time where an 11-year-old rape victim here would be forced to carry the child to term, but I can totally understand why people on the left and in the middle would hear the words of people like Santorum, Akin, Mourdock, Perry, etc. and would think "better safe than sorry" and vote straight ticket Democrat. Anti-abortion extremists are working against their own interests on the abortion issue and sacrificing ground on a lot of other important issues in the process.

Therapeutic abortions were legal in Chili until a military dictatorship abolished them in 1989. While there are no accurate statistics, it is estimated that between 2000 and 2002 there were between 132,000 and 160,000 illegal abortions in the country. Abortion is the third leading cause of maternal mortality in the country.

There are organizations that arrange safe abortions in Uruguay where abortions are legal. This is where those that are financial able go. However, those without the financial resources resort to back alley abortions. Since the hospitals are diligent in reporting to police botched abortions, few girls will go to the hospitals for treatment which probably accounted for the high rate of death.

 

[freedombecki]

abortion is only murder when the law says it is murder.

people shove religion, or moral beliefs, down other people's throats (if you choose to refer to it that way) all the time. religion has laid the goundwork for all legal systems that i can think of.

for the record, i am opposed to abortion generally, but not for religious reasons. i am not opposed to an abortion being performed on this little girl.

Killing a human being is aka murder. A human being comes about at conception. Do the math.

Really? What about stillborn births? Is it an abortion if you remove a child who is already dead from the mother?

I thought that the "Good Book" that most Christians revere said that Adam and Eve were dust until God breathed the breath of life into them?

Sorry.....................but until that child breathes and says they're alive, they're not really here at all.

Yep. Nope. Nope.
Sorry, they are alive human beings in vitro. (in life).

 

[freedombecki]

Why is abortion the first avenue here?

Because XXXXXX Noomi wants to dictate to the little people's countries what they may and may not legislate.

IOW, their laws should stay out of their own doctors' offices, but Noomi should be allowed to come and go with finger-pointing even though she doesn't have to go there and live with her decisions on people whose mores she abhors.

Abortion should be the first and only option because this is an 11 year old CHILD!

That is barbaric as having abortion denied. As wrong as it is for someone to force that child to get an abortion, it is equally wrong to require it.

The choice should be hers and no one else.

People have to live with their own country's laws.

 

[Amelia]

Killing a human being is aka murder. A human being comes about at conception. Do the math.

Really? What about stillborn births? Is it an abortion if you remove a child who is already dead from the mother?

I thought that the "Good Book" that most Christians revere said that Adam and Eve were dust until God breathed the breath of life into them?

Sorry.....................but until that child breathes and says they're alive, they're not really here at all.

Yep. Nope. Nope.
Sorry, they are alive human beings in vitro. (in life).

"in vitro" means "in glass"

fwiw

 

[freedombecki]

Really? What about stillborn births? Is it an abortion if you remove a child who is already dead from the mother?

I thought that the "Good Book" that most Christians revere said that Adam and Eve were dust until God breathed the breath of life into them?

Sorry.....................but until that child breathes and says they're alive, they're not really here at all.

Yep. Nope. Nope.
Sorry, they are alive human beings in vitro. (in life).

"in vitro" means "in glass"

fwiw

I stand corrected. Thank you, Amelia.

 

[Katzndogz]

This can be simply resolved. All pregnancies are presumed to be intended. If a woman or a girl if under age claims the pregnancy is the result of rape she has to give up the rapist. Or the abortion provider has to both give up the rapist and a dna sample of the aborted fetus so the rapist can be identified.

 

[Avatar4321]

She has a better chance of surviving an abortion than a pregnancy. She is only 11, she needs to come first. Abortion in this case should be necessary to preserve her health.

I'm just as concerned for the child as the mother. How about you?

I am concerned about an 11 year old girl who was raped, and who may be physically and mentally ruined because of this pregnancy. My concern is not with the fetus.

And what about the mental and emotional damage by encouraging killing a woman's child?

 

[Amelia]

This can be simply resolved. All pregnancies are presumed to be intended. If a woman or a girl if under age claims the pregnancy is the result of rape she has to give up the rapist. Or the abortion provider has to both give up the rapist and a dna sample of the aborted fetus so the rapist can be identified.

What is it that this will resolve? It doesn't resolve the problem of a child whose doctors say she is at risk of dying not being able to get the medical care she needs.

In this case the rapist was identified.

In general, I would ask you who you are to tell a rape victim what she has to do. In many if not most countries an 11-year-old who is pregnant is by definition a rape victim and the child shouldn't be forced to say any more than she is ready to handle.

Again, that is moot in this case. The rapist is known.

 

[Mr. H.]

Maybe they can do a late-term C-section to deliver the child.
That late term stuff didn't deter Gosnell from doing his handywork

 

[Flopper]

Of the 30 highest developed nations, the vast majority have no restrictions on abortion, most of the remainder have limited restrictions and none outlaw all abortions. Of the 47 highest developed nations Chili ranks 40. The other nations that outlaw all abortions, Nicaragua and the Dominican Republic don't even make the list.

If you look at list of nations with the highest GDP, only two of the top 20 have any restrictions on abortion. I think there is strong coloration between human development and permissiveness toward abortion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_law
Human Development Index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)

 

[Amelia]

Maybe they can do a late-term C-section to deliver the child.
That late term stuff didn't deter Gosnell from doing his handywork

How long would you make the little girl wait before you so kindly slice her open? How premature would you let the newborn be?

 

[National Socialist]

I know I have seen in the news girls younger than that having babies...she should be fine....its horrible what happened to her and I hope they put the baby up for adoption but its no reason to murder the baby....I MIGHT have a wreck every time I drive.....so ya know it might happen it might not...

 

[auditor0007]

Doctors say the girl, who is 14 weeks pregnant, is at high risk if the pregnancy continues. In other words, she could die, because her body is not developed enough to carry a fetus to term. But abortions in her home country of Chile are not permitted for medical reasons.

Clearly this is a medical reason. We have a small child, who became pregnant after she was raped by her mothers partner, and the law doesn't allow her to have a termination, despite the fact the risk to both fetus and child/mother are high:

THE case of a pregnant 11-year old girl who was raped in Chile by her mother's partner has set off a national debate about abortion.

State TV reported that the girl known only as "Belen'' is 14 weeks pregnant. Police arrested her mother's partner who confessed to abusing the fifth grader. Doctors say her life and that of the fetus are at high risk. But ending the pregnancy is not an option.

Chile allowed abortions for medical reasons until they were outlawed in 1973 by General Augusto Pinochet's dictatorship. The current government of conservative President Sebastian Pinera has opposed any loosening of the prohibition.

Many Chileans were venting outrage on social media on Friday. Some have started an online campaign to demand legalisation of abortion in cases of rape or health risks for mother.

Chile's Senate rejected three bills last year that would have eased the absolute ban on abortions.

One of the bills would have permitted abortion when two doctors said it was needed because of risks to a mother's life or other medical reasons, such as a fetus with low chances of survival.

Another of the measures rejected would have allowed abortion in the event of rape.

Read more: Pregnant child, 11, sparks abortion debate in Chile | News.com.au

Abortion is not even allowed in cases of rape. Its a total blanket ban, which is completely wrong.

My view - a child should not be having a child. She is 11 years old, she has been raped and abused by someone who should have been caring for her, she should have a termination in order to protect her health, and her life.

Opinions?

There are many Americans who agree with Chile's laws on abortion. They want us to be just like Chile.

 

[Mr. H.]

Maybe they can do a late-term C-section to deliver the child.
That late term stuff didn't deter Gosnell from doing his handywork

How long would you make the little girl wait before you so kindly slice her open? How premature would you let the newborn be?

"So kindly slice"?

I beg your pardon, I have four children - three born by cesarean.

Speaking of slicing, how'd that Gosnell procedure work out for those kids that you and yours refuse to take under your wings?

A little postmature wouldn't you think?

 

[whitehall]

It's an old trick to take an extreme case and pretend it's the norm rather than the exception. I doubt if there is any reasonable person on the pro-life side who wouldn't authorize an abortion in this case.

 

[Amelia]

Maybe they can do a late-term C-section to deliver the child.
That late term stuff didn't deter Gosnell from doing his handywork

How long would you make the little girl wait before you so kindly slice her open? How premature would you let the newborn be?

"So kindly slice"?

I beg your pardon, I have four children - three born by cesarean.

Speaking of slicing, how'd that Gosnell procedure work out for those kids that you and yours refuse to take under your wings?

A little postmature wouldn't you think?

Those children were born to you by adult women who chose to do actions which resulted in pregnancy. You are advocating slicing an 11-year-old rape victim open.

You didn't answer the question though. How long are you going to have the little girl wait before you allow her to have her body back? Does she have to wait until the fetus is 6 months? 7 months? 8 months?