14 y.o. black intrudor shot and killed in Louisiana, white home owner arrested.

[Zona]

Let's say you are the shooter. What are you going to say the about the kid? He Reached for something or not say he did. Of course you will say he reached for something, otherwise you just shot an unarmed kid because you were scared.

Good point. You can always say 'he reached for something,' and then it looks like you had a right to shoot, regardless of whether he actually did reach for something. One of the things that is notable is the total acceptance by the pro-gun people of whatever the shooter says: the story of the armed citizen is believed totally and w/o question every time. Why is that?

You are one of the stupidest posters I have ever encountered. You seriously believe when a bunch of thugs storm the door of an elderly couple and shoot them to death as happened in Paris TN about 3 years ago, that people believe he was in the right. You are one big fucking idiot. You are as slow as mud. When I encounter someone as dim witted as you, I wonder how you have managed to keep food on the table enough to keep you alive. Oh. That's right. I have worked and put it there. What WAS I thinking!

What does that have to do with this shoot? That fucking kid was thief bit should not have been shot THIS time. It was a bad shoot.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Good point. You can always say 'he reached for something,' and then it looks like you had a right to shoot, regardless of whether he actually did reach for something. One of the things that is notable is the total acceptance by the pro-gun people of whatever the shooter says: the story of the armed citizen is believed totally and w/o question every time. Why is that?

You are one of the stupidest posters I have ever encountered. You seriously believe when a bunch of thugs storm the door of an elderly couple and shoot them to death as happened in Paris TN about 3 years ago, that people believe he was in the right. You are one big fucking idiot. You are as slow as mud. When I encounter someone as dim witted as you, I wonder how you have managed to keep food on the table enough to keep you alive. Oh. That's right. I have worked and put it there. What WAS I thinking!

What does that have to do with this shoot? That fucking kid was thief bit should not have been shot THIS time. It was a bad shoot.

Not being there you cant really say that. What if the kid did reach for his waistband a la TM? It is a common intimidation technique among gangster types.

 

[KissMy]

it might be on the mythbuster site

It was a flawed episode. It was confirmed that if a bullet is not fired perfectly straight up it can arch over maintaining its spin preventing tumble. A spinning bullet will fall beyond fast enough to sink 1 foot into ballistics gel. That is more than lethal. A human is rarely able to fire straight up enough to prevent lethal bullet drop. It would have to be done on a rig. That means any warning shot will fall at lethal speed.

As they say in Missouri...Show me.
And I'm not sure how it can be a flawed episode when it actually happened.
They shot straight up and the velocity was nowhere near enough to penetrate ballistic gel to that depth. Not sure how that can be fudged.

The US military says a straight up shot 30.06 falls at 205/mph. German scientist track nearly straight up shot 9mm pistol bullet & it fell at lethal rates.

[youtube]GZDS_2ooqpU[/youtube]

 

[Sunshine]

Good point. You can always say 'he reached for something,' and then it looks like you had a right to shoot, regardless of whether he actually did reach for something. One of the things that is notable is the total acceptance by the pro-gun people of whatever the shooter says: the story of the armed citizen is believed totally and w/o question every time. Why is that?

You are one of the stupidest posters I have ever encountered. You seriously believe when a bunch of thugs storm the door of an elderly couple and shoot them to death as happened in Paris TN about 3 years ago, that people believe he was in the right. You are one big fucking idiot. You are as slow as mud. When I encounter someone as dim witted as you, I wonder how you have managed to keep food on the table enough to keep you alive. Oh. That's right. I have worked and put it there. What WAS I thinking!

What does that have to do with this shoot? That fucking kid was thief bit should not have been shot THIS time. It was a bad shoot.

Yeah and you need him around so he can victimize more whites. We get where you are coming from. who knows maybe next time he'll rape a white woman.

 

[Immanuel]

The home owner did warn the thug when he said freeze. If the thug ran away at that point he likely would not have got shot because shooting in the back is a big no no unless he has done something real bad. But sounds like this thug turned toward him & grabbed waste area & got shot in the face.

He didn't warn the potential burglar he was armed. He didn't fire a warning shot. Saying freeze doesn't mean a threat of death. That seems part of the game, actually. If you warn someone you are armed or are going to shoot him, he might run away and cause you (not you specifically, but a generic you) to lose the chance of shooting him. It really does appear that most pro-gun people are anxious to kill someone, which, imo, doesn't make 'you' any better than the person you want to kill, i.e., a thug, at least at heart if not yet in action.

Do police warn people that they are armed? If they yell freeze and you move you get shot, the same rules should apply to everyone.

End of discussion.

Typically they say something to the effect of, "Police freeze!". I have to say that the word "Police" tells me that the SOB (no disrespect intended) telling me to "freeze" is armed. I'm gonna freeze.

Immie

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

It was a flawed episode. It was confirmed that if a bullet is not fired perfectly straight up it can arch over maintaining its spin preventing tumble. A spinning bullet will fall beyond fast enough to sink 1 foot into ballistics gel. That is more than lethal. A human is rarely able to fire straight up enough to prevent lethal bullet drop. It would have to be done on a rig. That means any warning shot will fall at lethal speed.

As they say in Missouri...Show me.
And I'm not sure how it can be a flawed episode when it actually happened.
They shot straight up and the velocity was nowhere near enough to penetrate ballistic gel to that depth. Not sure how that can be fudged.

The US military says a straight up shot 30.06 falls at 205/mph. German scientist track nearly straight up shot 9mm pistol bullet & it fell at lethal rates.

[youtube]GZDS_2ooqpU[/youtube]

At 300 fps I wouldnt think it would be lethal. Thats paintball speeds.
And again they have been clocked at 120 mph as well.
As I said earlier,our neighbor was hit in the head with a .22 LR while sitting on the back porch. Since she was sitting on a covered porch the round had to have arched in.
All she got was a knot on here head.

 

[Zona]

You are one of the stupidest posters I have ever encountered. You seriously believe when a bunch of thugs storm the door of an elderly couple and shoot them to death as happened in Paris TN about 3 years ago, that people believe he was in the right. You are one big fucking idiot. You are as slow as mud. When I encounter someone as dim witted as you, I wonder how you have managed to keep food on the table enough to keep you alive. Oh. That's right. I have worked and put it there. What WAS I thinking!

What does that have to do with this shoot? That fucking kid was thief bit should not have been shot THIS time. It was a bad shoot.

Yeah and you need him around so he can victimize more whites. We get where you are coming from. who knows maybe next time he'll rape a white woman.

Will you please pay attention. I wish he entered the house and was killed. I really do. But you have me wishing for rapes? What the fuck is wrong with you? This is a bad shoot.

 

[Cenere]

I think most people would feel there life was being threatened if someone were to come barging into the home in the middle of the night. I think tempers are a bit higher when there are children in the home or a pregnant woman.

 

[Vikrant]

Bullet does not tumble when going up. The aerodynamic nature of the bullet takes it to a higher altitude which gives it more potential to accelerate on its way downward. As I said earlier, the terminal velocity is not a constant thing, it depends on the density of the projectile.

If you want to shoot gun in the air and kill someone I cannot stop you but it is a stupid thing to do.

Keep digging, the evidence proves you wrong. A bullet fired straight up will always tumble on the way down. It doesn't matter if you shoot it straight up from a high altitude weather balloon, it will reach terminal velocity and no faster. That is why it is called terminal velocity.

See for yourself.

MythBusters - S04E07 Bullets Fired Up - Watch Free Documentary Online - Discovery Channel, Jamie Hyneman, Adam Savage

You have no understanding whatsoever what terminal velocity is. It is futile to discuss this subject with you any further. On top of that, you do not know how to read.

 

[Vikrant]

Now let us take air resistance into the account. It is true, on its way down, the projectile reaches what is called terminal velocity due to steadily increasing friction caused by +g. However, the terminal velocity of the projectile is dependent on the density of the projectile and the aerodynamic nature of its shape. High density coupled with good aerodynamics results in high terminal velocity. Bullets are usually made of lead which is a highly dense metal. Bullets fired from high powered rifles are quite aerodynamic and have high density. As a result they have high terminal velocity. It is not uncommon for bullets to fall down with a speed of 300mph if fired straight up. Now imagine a 7.62mm ammo falling on your head with a speed of 300mph. It can and will kill you. It is dangerous to shoot guns in the air.

A bullet will fall backwards for obvious reasons.
And the bullet wont fall at 300 mph either,and if it did thats only 440 fps. which is not likely to kill you.
A neighbor of mine was sitting on her back porch,a covered porch mind you,and got struck in the head with a spent .22 round. Since the round had to come from the side due to the porch,why didnt it kill her rather then put a small bump on her head?
Oh..the .22 rnd has about a 1300 fps muzzle velocity on the high end. Thats 886 mph,much faster then the 120 mph they actually travel at when falling.

Terminal velocity is based on the density of the projectile. For example a feather will reach terminal velocity much quicker than a steel ball weighing 10kg.

 

[Sunshine]

He didn't warn the potential burglar he was armed. He didn't fire a warning shot. Saying freeze doesn't mean a threat of death. That seems part of the game, actually. If you warn someone you are armed or are going to shoot him, he might run away and cause you (not you specifically, but a generic you) to lose the chance of shooting him. It really does appear that most pro-gun people are anxious to kill someone, which, imo, doesn't make 'you' any better than the person you want to kill, i.e., a thug, at least at heart if not yet in action.

Do police warn people that they are armed? If they yell freeze and you move you get shot, the same rules should apply to everyone.

End of discussion.

Typically they say something to the effect of, "Police freeze!". I have to say that the word "Police" tells me that the SOB (no disrespect intended) telling me to "freeze" is armed. I'm gonna freeze.

Immie

Usually all the police say to me is 'do you know why I stopped you?'

 

[Kondor3]

Did the NOLA shooter fire up into the air and did the bullet come down on top of the 14-year-old's head or something? Is that why we're having a seemingly otherwise unrelated ballistics lesson herein?

 

[Vikrant]

Bullet does not tumble when going up. The aerodynamic nature of the bullet takes it to a higher altitude which gives it more potential to accelerate on its way downward. As I said earlier, the terminal velocity is not a constant thing, it depends on the density of the projectile.

If you want to shoot gun in the air and kill someone I cannot stop you but it is a stupid thing to do.

Bullshit. Doesnt matter how much it weighs,they'll fall at the same speed.
Now given the choice of a .50 cal rnd falling on my head or a .22 rnd I'll take the .22 even if it is travelling at the same speed.

Wind resistance vs weight will change the speed at which things fall. But in this case it's not worth mentioning.

You are WRONG.

Acceleration due to gravity is constant regardless of the density of the object but not the terminal velocity. Terminal velocity is achieved due to the resistance offered by air. As an object descends towards the earth, its velocity steadily increases due to +g (acceleration due to gravity). As the velocity increases, the resistance increases as well. The higher the density of the object, more it is likely to overcome the resistance of the air. But eventually any object reaches a point where increase in the velocity causes so much resistance that the velocity starts to decrease. This causes an immediate decrease in the resistance and immediate increase in the velocity. This leads to a state of equilibrium where neither the increase in the resistance nor the increase in the velocity is possible. It is this stage at which the object reaches terminal velocity.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Large mass bullets like a 2700 pound bullet from a 16" gun on a Navy destroyer can fall at 900/mph. Make it out of depleated uranium & it will go faster yet.

Not if they're fired straight up. They'll fall at the same speed as anything else.
As long as wind resistance isnt a factor. And since were talking bullets the drag coefficient would be very similar.

Just because you should know these things.

HowStuffWorks "Where do bullets go when guns are fired straight up into the air?"

Woman shot in the shoulder after bullet fired into air | www.wsoctv.com

Bullet Fired in the Air Kills Boy, 7, in Chesterfield | NBC4 Washington

Shooting mars Charlotte holiday | CharlotteObserver.com

Maryland girl critical from bullet shot in air on New Year's Eve - CBS News

physics - Can bullets fired into the air kill a person when they fall? - Skeptics Stack Exchange

Man wounded by celebratory shot fired into air in Akron | cleveland.com

?Accidental? Killing of Amish Girl Should Be Grounds for Punishment | The Stir

what would those incidents have in common

in everyone one of them the path of the bullet was less then straight up

still having some of its energy from being fired

 

[jon_berzerk]

Not if they're fired straight up. They'll fall at the same speed as anything else.
As long as wind resistance isnt a factor. And since were talking bullets the drag coefficient would be very similar.

Just because you should know these things.

HowStuffWorks "Where do bullets go when guns are fired straight up into the air?"

Woman shot in the shoulder after bullet fired into air | www.wsoctv.com

Bullet Fired in the Air Kills Boy, 7, in Chesterfield | NBC4 Washington

Shooting mars Charlotte holiday | CharlotteObserver.com

Maryland girl critical from bullet shot in air on New Year's Eve - CBS News

physics - Can bullets fired into the air kill a person when they fall? - Skeptics Stack Exchange

Man wounded by celebratory shot fired into air in Akron | cleveland.com

?Accidental? Killing of Amish Girl Should Be Grounds for Punishment | The Stir

Nope...do some research.
Some of your examples flat out admit they shot at an angle. In fact this thread is full of the reasons you're wrong. You must have missed em.

Shooting a slug straight up will be no different then dropping it from a helicopter.

absolutely correct

 

[Vandalshandle]

When I was around 14, my friends and I used to go down to the shopping center in the middle of the night, and use the trampelines that were set up there, for free. It was a short lived fad that people would set up these outdoor businesses. To get to the shopping center, it was a 1 1/2 miles walk if we followed the highway. However, it was only 3/4 mile walk if we went through this particular yard with a hurricane fence and gate, which led to a short cut street. We did it often. It never occurred to me that there are people in the world who would think that it was alright to kill us for doing that. I suppose that they would also think it would have been OK to shoot us, since we were trespasssing on the trampoline owner's busiess property, as well, even though we never did any damage to anything. However, it was a gentler time in a gentler nation, then.

 

[Vikrant]

Not if they're fired straight up. They'll fall at the same speed as anything else.
As long as wind resistance isnt a factor. And since were talking bullets the drag coefficient would be very similar.

Just because you should know these things.

HowStuffWorks "Where do bullets go when guns are fired straight up into the air?"

Woman shot in the shoulder after bullet fired into air | www.wsoctv.com

Bullet Fired in the Air Kills Boy, 7, in Chesterfield | NBC4 Washington

Shooting mars Charlotte holiday | CharlotteObserver.com

Maryland girl critical from bullet shot in air on New Year's Eve - CBS News

physics - Can bullets fired into the air kill a person when they fall? - Skeptics Stack Exchange

Man wounded by celebratory shot fired into air in Akron | cleveland.com

?Accidental? Killing of Amish Girl Should Be Grounds for Punishment | The Stir

Nope...do some research.
Some of your examples flat out admit they shot at an angle. In fact this thread is full of the reasons you're wrong. You must have missed em.

Shooting a slug straight up will be no different then dropping it from a helicopter.

Velocity at which the bullet will fall is higher when the gun is shot straight up as opposed to when shot at even a slight inclination.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Looking for the actual episode but it's nowhere to be found.

it might be on the mythbuster site

It was a flawed episode. It was confirmed that if a bullet is not fired perfectly straight up it can arch over maintaining its spin preventing tumble. A spinning bullet will fall beyond fast enough to sink 1 foot into ballistics gel. That is more than lethal. A human is rarely able to fire straight up enough to prevent lethal bullet drop. It would have to be done on a rig. That means any warning shot will fall at lethal speed.

naw


it may tumble at first

but it will eventually settle for

falling heaviest end first

on to angles

the angle of fire must be so

that when it reaches its destination

it is still using the energy from being shot (not gravity)

and then it must be close enough to have retained enough of its energy to be lethal

notice on the side of a box of ammo it will say things like

dangerous to 11/2 miles

dangerous to 3 miles

and so on

 

[Vikrant]

Looking for the actual episode but it's nowhere to be found.

it might be on the mythbuster site

It was a flawed episode. It was confirmed that if a bullet is not fired perfectly straight up it can arch over maintaining its spin preventing tumble. A spinning bullet will fall beyond fast enough to sink 1 foot into ballistics gel. That is more than lethal. A human is rarely able to fire straight up enough to prevent lethal bullet drop. It would have to be done on a rig. That means any warning shot will fall at lethal speed.

Firing straight up can be more dangerous because it attains maximum h, which gives +g plenty of time to work on it and if the object has decent enough density, it reaches dangerous enough velocity.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It was a flawed episode. It was confirmed that if a bullet is not fired perfectly straight up it can arch over maintaining its spin preventing tumble. A spinning bullet will fall beyond fast enough to sink 1 foot into ballistics gel. That is more than lethal. A human is rarely able to fire straight up enough to prevent lethal bullet drop. It would have to be done on a rig. That means any warning shot will fall at lethal speed.

As they say in Missouri...Show me.
And I'm not sure how it can be a flawed episode when it actually happened.
They shot straight up and the velocity was nowhere near enough to penetrate ballistic gel to that depth. Not sure how that can be fudged.

The US military says a straight up shot 30.06 falls at 205/mph. German scientist track nearly straight up shot 9mm pistol bullet & it fell at lethal rates.

[youtube]GZDS_2ooqpU[/youtube]

How do I know that when it is in German? I have already posted a vide where they actually shot a 9mm straight up and it only penetrated a couple of inches into the diret. That migh kill you if you were looking up with your mouth open and it lodged in your throat, but I wouldn't bet on it.