2012: Obama Wins. Now what?

[JoeB131]

This is very important. And it's got to be stressed over and over again.

Republicans are well on the way to make it very difficult for people other then the super rich to have a good life in this country.

Except that I don't recall anyone suggesting we scrap either Social Security or Medicare. Fixing does not coincide with "scrapping".

Immie

They want to make fundamental changes that would make them something very different.

If I took away your car and gave you a horse..you can still get around. But a car is not a horse..or vice versa. Even if I called the horse..a car.

And in a world that ran out gasoline, a horse would be useful and a car would not...

Which is kind of what we are talking about here.

Social security only worked well when you had more contributors than recipiants. When FDR introduced it, the average life expectency was 62, so letting folks retire at 65 wasn't any great treat.

Today the life expectancy is 78. And due to the reduction in the birth rate after 1965, that means that there are less suckers... I mean donors, paying into the thing.

 

[Dragon]

Social security only worked well when you had more contributors than recipiants.

Untrue. The problems with Social Security are often exaggerated by those who want to do away with it. In fact, it's projected to be fine for several decades more, and only slightly out of balance after that. Very minor adjustments, either raising the limit on earned income for payroll tax or reducing planned increases in benefits or some combination, or even measures that would raise wages and salaries across the board (and hence increase payroll tax revenues) would solve the problem entirely. This is easily doable, and there is no radical fix required.

Medicare is a different story, but the problems with that program are inseparable from those that afflict our health-care system in general. All we have to do is expand Medicare into a universal single-payer system instead of one limited to the elderly, and use the resulting bargaining leverage to hold down the cost of health care. Problem solved. This is a more extensive fix than what would work for Social Security, but it's something that we will eventually have to do for other reasons anyway.

 

[JoeB131]

They want to make fundamental changes that would make them something very different.

If I took away your car and gave you a horse..you can still get around. But a car is not a horse..or vice versa. Even if I called the horse..a car.

And in a world that ran out gasoline, a horse would be useful and a car would not...

Which is kind of what we are talking about here.

Social security only worked well when you had more contributors than recipiants. When FDR introduced it, the average life expectency was 62, so letting folks retire at 65 wasn't any great treat.

Today the life expectancy is 78. And due to the reduction in the birth rate after 1965, that means that there are less suckers... I mean donors, paying into the thing.

cars can run on other fuel?

It would take time, but it can be switched over.....

Quite right. Any source of carbon could be turned into fuel... So we might be able to solve the illegal alien problem, the poverty problem, and the annoying assholes who text while driving problem in one fell swoop....

Solyent Green is People!

On a serious note, though, at what point do we bankrupt the productive people to subsidize the elderly in the manner in which they've become accustomed. I mean, yeah, we could keep them all in style but should we? What percentage of my pay do you think is too high?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The problems with Social Security are often exaggerated by those who want to do away with it.

True, as adhering to facts won’t realize that goal.

 

[Mr.Nick]

So let's say the unthinkable happens and Obama wins re-election (G-d forbid). He is sworn in in January 2013 (Heaven forbid) and serves another 4 years (L-rd save us). Now what?
The Congress will go over to the GOP, having the lowest ratings in years. What will Obama do for 4 years? He is the most compromised president in history. He doesn't have a shred of credibility with the GOP, having demonized them for over 4 years. He has proven he cannot work with them. He has proven he ignores all advice contrary to his own ideas (see, Simpson-Bowles). He is unable to get a single piece of legislation through Congress. And his regulatory moves are blocked by Congressional action.
Is that really the formula for success? Gridlock?
No, Obama is unable to govern. The Dems need to choose someone else as a sacrificial lamb.

It really depends on the makeup of the House and Senate. If either or both are held by republicans they will just block every tyrannical piece of legislation he proposes while while Obama cries about it while claiming he's a "victim". Not to mention if that were to occur I believe Obama would respond to that by ruling as a dictator by passing his agenda via executive order(s)..

Besides, Obama isn't going to win - the sane people that bought his shit last time and gave him a chance aren't dumb enough to buy a second round of that bullshit..

I have Ron Paul beating Obama by a wide margin..

Ron Paul won't even win a single primary.

You're wrong about that... He already won a couple straw polls. Also, the majority of his supporters are hardly political and are mostly silent...

Ron Paul will win the nomination...

Hell, the majority of the people I know are supporting Ron Paul this time around. Back in 08 those same people wouldn't have given Ron Paul the time of day..

 

[rightwinger]

So let's say the unthinkable happens and Obama wins re-election (G-d forbid). He is sworn in in January 2013 (Heaven forbid) and serves another 4 years (L-rd save us). Now what?
The Congress will go over to the GOP, having the lowest ratings in years. What will Obama do for 4 years? He is the most compromised president in history. He doesn't have a shred of credibility with the GOP, having demonized them for over 4 years. He has proven he cannot work with them. He has proven he ignores all advice contrary to his own ideas (see, Simpson-Bowles). He is unable to get a single piece of legislation through Congress. And his regulatory moves are blocked by Congressional action.
Is that really the formula for success? Gridlock?
No, Obama is unable to govern. The Dems need to choose someone else as a sacrificial lamb.

It really depends on the makeup of the House and Senate. If either or both are held by republicans they will just block every tyrannical piece of legislation he proposes while while Obama cries about it while claiming he's a "victim". Not to mention if that were to occur I believe Obama would respond to that by ruling as a dictator by passing his agenda via executive order(s)..

Besides, Obama isn't going to win - the sane people that bought his shit last time and gave him a chance aren't dumb enough to buy a second round of that bullshit..

I have Ron Paul beating Obama by a wide margin..

Ron Paul won't win a single state

 

[rightwinger]

Except that I don't recall anyone suggesting we scrap either Social Security or Medicare. Fixing does not coincide with "scrapping".

Immie

Privatization would equate to scrapping social security

Republicans advocated scrapping Medicare and replacing it with a voucher system

I completely disagree with you. In fact, I think privatization would make the system 1000 times better for the citizens of the U.S.

Immie

All we need is one major economic downturn and millions of the elderly will be wiped out

republicans will reply......"so what....it's your own fault"

 

[Mr.Nick]

So let's say the unthinkable happens and Obama wins re-election (G-d forbid). He is sworn in in January 2013 (Heaven forbid) and serves another 4 years (L-rd save us). Now what?
The Congress will go over to the GOP, having the lowest ratings in years. What will Obama do for 4 years? He is the most compromised president in history. He doesn't have a shred of credibility with the GOP, having demonized them for over 4 years. He has proven he cannot work with them. He has proven he ignores all advice contrary to his own ideas (see, Simpson-Bowles). He is unable to get a single piece of legislation through Congress. And his regulatory moves are blocked by Congressional action.
Is that really the formula for success? Gridlock?
No, Obama is unable to govern. The Dems need to choose someone else as a sacrificial lamb.

It really depends on the makeup of the House and Senate. If either or both are held by republicans they will just block every tyrannical piece of legislation he proposes while while Obama cries about it while claiming he's a "victim". Not to mention if that were to occur I believe Obama would respond to that by ruling as a dictator by passing his agenda via executive order(s)..

Besides, Obama isn't going to win - the sane people that bought his shit last time and gave him a chance aren't dumb enough to buy a second round of that bullshit..

I have Ron Paul beating Obama by a wide margin..

Ron Paul won't win a single state

You willing to wager your account on that???

 

[rightwinger]

It really depends on the makeup of the House and Senate. If either or both are held by republicans they will just block every tyrannical piece of legislation he proposes while while Obama cries about it while claiming he's a "victim". Not to mention if that were to occur I believe Obama would respond to that by ruling as a dictator by passing his agenda via executive order(s)..

Besides, Obama isn't going to win - the sane people that bought his shit last time and gave him a chance aren't dumb enough to buy a second round of that bullshit..

I have Ron Paul beating Obama by a wide margin..

Ron Paul won't even win a single primary.

You're wrong about that... He already won a couple straw polls. Also, the majority of his supporters are hardly political and are mostly silent...

Ron Paul will win the nomination...

Hell, the majority of the people I know are supporting Ron Paul this time around. Back in 08 those same people wouldn't have given Ron Paul the time of day..

He won all the straw polls last time.....

That equated to no delegates. Finishing third or fourth in a primary gets you nothing

 

[rightwinger]

It really depends on the makeup of the House and Senate. If either or both are held by republicans they will just block every tyrannical piece of legislation he proposes while while Obama cries about it while claiming he's a "victim". Not to mention if that were to occur I believe Obama would respond to that by ruling as a dictator by passing his agenda via executive order(s)..

Besides, Obama isn't going to win - the sane people that bought his shit last time and gave him a chance aren't dumb enough to buy a second round of that bullshit..

I have Ron Paul beating Obama by a wide margin..

Ron Paul won't win a single state

You willing to wager your account on that???

You are on

 

[Mr.Nick]

Ron Paul won't even win a single primary.

You're wrong about that... He already won a couple straw polls. Also, the majority of his supporters are hardly political and are mostly silent...

Ron Paul will win the nomination...

Hell, the majority of the people I know are supporting Ron Paul this time around. Back in 08 those same people wouldn't have given Ron Paul the time of day..

He won all the straw polls last time.....

That equated to no delegates. Finishing third or fourth in a primary gets you nothing

No he didn't ...............

Did you just make that shit up??? of course you did.

 

[rightwinger]

You're wrong about that... He already won a couple straw polls. Also, the majority of his supporters are hardly political and are mostly silent...

Ron Paul will win the nomination...

Hell, the majority of the people I know are supporting Ron Paul this time around. Back in 08 those same people wouldn't have given Ron Paul the time of day..

He won all the straw polls last time.....

That equated to no delegates. Finishing third or fourth in a primary gets you nothing

No he didn't ...............

Did you just make that shit up??? of course you did.

Earth to Nick

Straw polls and Internet polls are fake. Ron Paul doesn't really have 82% support of the Republicans

He is a nice old man who will finish third or fourth in some early states and be washed out by February

 

[Zander]

Future Headlines:
November 2011- Obama leads all polls by 5%.
December 2011- Obama leads all polls by 5%.
January 2012- Obama leads all polls by 6%.
March 2012- Obama leads all polls by 7%.
May 2012- Obama leads all polls by 8%.
July 2012 - Obama leads all polls by 9%
Sept 2012 - Obama leads all polls by 10%
November 5th 2012- Obama with commanding lead over Romney.

November 7th, 2012- Mitt Romney defeats Barack Obama by largest margin in history.

November 8th, 2012 - Obama celebrates. Relief that he finally can golf during the week, and smoke in public.

 

[JoeB131]

Future Headlines:
November 2011- Obama leads all polls by 5%.
December 2011- Obama leads all polls by 5%.
January 2012- Obama leads all polls by 6%.
March 2012- Obama leads all polls by 7%.
May 2012- Obama leads all polls by 8%.
July 2012 - Obama leads all polls by 9%
Sept 2012 - Obama leads all polls by 10%
November 5th 2012- Obama with commanding lead over Romney.

November 7th, 2012- Mitt Romney defeats Barack Obama by largest margin in history.

November 8th, 2012 - Obama celebrates. Relief that he finally can golf during the week, and smoke in public.

If the republicans are sufficently retarded to nominate Romney, they will lose and deservedly so.

It will be the first time in 32 years I haven't voted for the Republican.

 

[Lakhota]

Vegas is waiting. Place your bets now...

 

[Mr.Nick]

He won all the straw polls last time.....

That equated to no delegates. Finishing third or fourth in a primary gets you nothing

No he didn't ...............

Did you just make that shit up??? of course you did.

Earth to Nick

Straw polls and Internet polls are fake. Ron Paul doesn't really have 82% support of the Republicans

He is a nice old man who will finish third or fourth in some early states and be washed out by February

Believe what you like - you stated that Ron Paul won straw polls in 2008 - which he didn't.

Besides, a straw poll is nothing like an internet poll...

Oh and Ron Paul doesn't get 82% of Republican support.... Independents will put him over the top..

I'd give Paul 30% of the republican vote and 50+% of the independent vote. Also I believe in some states democrats can vote in the republican primary and without question most benevolent democrats in such states would vote Ron Paul over any other republican candidate..

Hell there are quite a few democrats that would take Paul over Obama and that is why Paul will beat Obama...

It's pretty much simple math..

 

[Dot Com]

It really depends on the makeup of the House and Senate. If either or both are held by republicans they will just block every tyrannical piece of legislation he proposes while while Obama cries about it while claiming he's a "victim". Not to mention if that were to occur I believe Obama would respond to that by ruling as a dictator by passing his agenda via executive order(s)..

Besides, Obama isn't going to win - the sane people that bought his shit last time and gave him a chance aren't dumb enough to buy a second round of that bullshit..

I have Ron Paul beating Obama by a wide margin..

Ron Paul won't even win a single primary.

You're wrong about that... He already won a couple straw polls. Also, the majority of his supporters are hardly political and are mostly silent...

Ron Paul will win the nomination...

Hell, the majority of the people I know are supporting Ron Paul this time around. Back in 08 those same people wouldn't have given Ron Paul the time of day..

Ummm..... he's against giving a blank check to the Pentagon. The polar opposite of today's Repubs

 

[Mr.Nick]

Ron Paul won't even win a single primary.

You're wrong about that... He already won a couple straw polls. Also, the majority of his supporters are hardly political and are mostly silent...

Ron Paul will win the nomination...

Hell, the majority of the people I know are supporting Ron Paul this time around. Back in 08 those same people wouldn't have given Ron Paul the time of day..

Ummm..... he's against giving a blank check to the Pentagon. The polar opposite of today's Repubs

He is a republican...

Big government RINO'S don't represent true traditional republican ideology, much like progressive liberals don't represent liberalism at all...

Republicans are liberals...

 

[rightwinger]

No he didn't ...............

Did you just make that shit up??? of course you did.

Earth to Nick

Straw polls and Internet polls are fake. Ron Paul doesn't really have 82% support of the Republicans

He is a nice old man who will finish third or fourth in some early states and be washed out by February

Believe what you like - you stated that Ron Paul won straw polls in 2008 - which he didn't.

Besides, a straw poll is nothing like an internet poll...

Oh and Ron Paul doesn't get 82% of Republican support.... Independents will put him over the top..

I'd give Paul 30% of the republican vote and 50+% of the independent vote. Also I believe in some states democrats can vote in the republican primary and without question most benevolent democrats in such states would vote Ron Paul over any other republican candidate..

Hell there are quite a few democrats that would take Paul over Obama and that is why Paul will beat Obama...

It's pretty much simple math..

Simply crazy....

Paul is a non factor....just like last time

Straw polls are fake and get swamped by Paulites. They can't do that in the primaries. Paul will finish fourth or fifth among Republicans behind Romney, Cain, Gingrich and Perry.

Cheer up......he will probably beat Bachmann and Santorum

 

[Zander]

Romney wins...all 58 states.