40 years ago

[Quantum Windbag]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Yup, ya just knew somebody was gonna go there eventually.

People that argue in defense of tyranny are fascists, they deserve to be called out.

What, "worse than Watergate" isn't good enough anymore?

Since we are talking about people who defend the government doing what it wouldn't do when Nixon was president, why should it be?

 

[LoneLaugher]

It is worth noting here that we have gone on for eight pages and almost one hundred twenty posts and I do not think that one single person has addressed the OP’s original point: the runaway government. So far we have virtually everyone trying to blame this on Obama or deflect it all on some other republican president (I have read from Regan to Bush here – getting kind of off the beaten path on that one) but virtually nothing on the utter reality that the IRS committed and hid an act that it outright refused to do decades ago even when ordered.

I have to say that the OP brings up a very interesting point. I am not sure if this did not touch the administration or not but the facts as they are at this point don’t show that it did. I don’t think anything will turn up either way as wherever this did come from was not likely painting a map to be discovered but I would almost prefer that it was ordered by Obama. At least then we have a culprit – a singular corrupt person that will be out of government in a few years. Scarier is the thought that we have slid so far and so completely that these agencies would do this on their own, of their own accord because they could. Even worse, covering it up until after the election which speaks to the individuals actually thinking that what they did was right rather than a complete outrage. Followed by spying on the media, we have real evidence that the government simply does not care anymore and feels that it has the right to do as it sees fit. Astounding.

Worse are you here that are defending this. What depraved vision of the government have you embraced when you need to defend Obama against something that he himself has condemned? I don’t see people here except the very few minority that defend Obama by claiming that he did not order this. That point has already been given. Instead, the actions the IRS took itself are being defended. In this thread and several others we have party hacks demanding that what the IRS did was perfectly all right. No issue there. As the OP pointed out, this is BY FAR the scariest thing about this ‘scandal.’ The fact that some can’t even tell why this is such a big deal and even go to the lengths to demand that it is just fine is appalling. Obama himself stated this was terrible. Everyone should be able to see the obvious.

Go back and read the OP, look at what he is actually getting at and realize that this is not a democrat problem that is being pointed out. It is not even a party problem. It is a pervasive issue that pertains to the government in general, regardless of who or what is running it.

Holy shit.

What the IRS did.....as far as I can tell at this point....is NOT perfectly alright. It is flawed in many ways. Name the USMB members who have stated that what was done.....as far as we can tell at this point....was perfectly alright.

The idea that we ( liberals ) more likely to bow down to tyranny that the lock-step nutters here is PURE BULLSHIT.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It is worth noting here that we have gone on for eight pages and almost one hundred twenty posts and I do not think that one single person has addressed the OP’s original point: the runaway government. So far we have virtually everyone trying to blame this on Obama or deflect it all on some other republican president (I have read from Regan to Bush here – getting kind of off the beaten path on that one) but virtually nothing on the utter reality that the IRS committed and hid an act that it outright refused to do decades ago even when ordered.

I have to say that the OP brings up a very interesting point. I am not sure if this did not touch the administration or not but the facts as they are at this point don’t show that it did. I don’t think anything will turn up either way as wherever this did come from was not likely painting a map to be discovered but I would almost prefer that it was ordered by Obama. At least then we have a culprit – a singular corrupt person that will be out of government in a few years. Scarier is the thought that we have slid so far and so completely that these agencies would do this on their own, of their own accord because they could. Even worse, covering it up until after the election which speaks to the individuals actually thinking that what they did was right rather than a complete outrage. Followed by spying on the media, we have real evidence that the government simply does not care anymore and feels that it has the right to do as it sees fit. Astounding.

Worse are you here that are defending this. What depraved vision of the government have you embraced when you need to defend Obama against something that he himself has condemned? I don’t see people here except the very few minority that defend Obama by claiming that he did not order this. That point has already been given. Instead, the actions the IRS took itself are being defended. In this thread and several others we have party hacks demanding that what the IRS did was perfectly all right. No issue there. As the OP pointed out, this is BY FAR the scariest thing about this ‘scandal.’ The fact that some can’t even tell why this is such a big deal and even go to the lengths to demand that it is just fine is appalling. Obama himself stated this was terrible. Everyone should be able to see the obvious.

Go back and read the OP, look at what he is actually getting at and realize that this is not a democrat problem that is being pointed out. It is not even a party problem. It is a pervasive issue that pertains to the government in general, regardless of who or what is running it.

It actually seems to be worse than I thought. I really didn't expect so many people to try to make this into a partisan issue.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It is worth noting here that we have gone on for eight pages and almost one hundred twenty posts and I do not think that one single person has addressed the OP’s original point: the runaway government. So far we have virtually everyone trying to blame this on Obama or deflect it all on some other republican president (I have read from Regan to Bush here – getting kind of off the beaten path on that one) but virtually nothing on the utter reality that the IRS committed and hid an act that it outright refused to do decades ago even when ordered.

I have to say that the OP brings up a very interesting point. I am not sure if this did not touch the administration or not but the facts as they are at this point don’t show that it did. I don’t think anything will turn up either way as wherever this did come from was not likely painting a map to be discovered but I would almost prefer that it was ordered by Obama. At least then we have a culprit – a singular corrupt person that will be out of government in a few years. Scarier is the thought that we have slid so far and so completely that these agencies would do this on their own, of their own accord because they could. Even worse, covering it up until after the election which speaks to the individuals actually thinking that what they did was right rather than a complete outrage. Followed by spying on the media, we have real evidence that the government simply does not care anymore and feels that it has the right to do as it sees fit. Astounding.

Worse are you here that are defending this. What depraved vision of the government have you embraced when you need to defend Obama against something that he himself has condemned? I don’t see people here except the very few minority that defend Obama by claiming that he did not order this. That point has already been given. Instead, the actions the IRS took itself are being defended. In this thread and several others we have party hacks demanding that what the IRS did was perfectly all right. No issue there. As the OP pointed out, this is BY FAR the scariest thing about this ‘scandal.’ The fact that some can’t even tell why this is such a big deal and even go to the lengths to demand that it is just fine is appalling. Obama himself stated this was terrible. Everyone should be able to see the obvious.

Go back and read the OP, look at what he is actually getting at and realize that this is not a democrat problem that is being pointed out. It is not even a party problem. It is a pervasive issue that pertains to the government in general, regardless of who or what is running it.

Holy shit.

What the IRS did.....as far as I can tell at this point....is NOT perfectly alright. It is flawed in many ways. Name the USMB members who have stated that what was done.....as far as we can tell at this point....was perfectly alright.

The idea that we ( liberals ) more likely to bow down to tyranny that the lock-step nutters here is PURE BULLSHIT.

Have you gone through the thread?

 

[thereisnospoon]

I call bullshit. But you can get back to me when Obama uses the CIA to destabilize a democratically elected President in a third world country to the point where a brutal dictator was able to overthrow the government and kill 30K of his own people, not to mention the countless others who were raped, tortured and maimed. In the meantime, your hyperbole is showing.

Non-sequiturs will get you no where.
Stay on point.

I'm precisely on point. there is no way Obama was worse than Nixon based on Nixon's meddling in Chile alone.

Yes..Twp wrongs make a right....At least on planet liberal, that is.

 

[LoneLaugher]

It is worth noting here that we have gone on for eight pages and almost one hundred twenty posts and I do not think that one single person has addressed the OP’s original point: the runaway government. So far we have virtually everyone trying to blame this on Obama or deflect it all on some other republican president (I have read from Regan to Bush here – getting kind of off the beaten path on that one) but virtually nothing on the utter reality that the IRS committed and hid an act that it outright refused to do decades ago even when ordered.

I have to say that the OP brings up a very interesting point. I am not sure if this did not touch the administration or not but the facts as they are at this point don’t show that it did. I don’t think anything will turn up either way as wherever this did come from was not likely painting a map to be discovered but I would almost prefer that it was ordered by Obama. At least then we have a culprit – a singular corrupt person that will be out of government in a few years. Scarier is the thought that we have slid so far and so completely that these agencies would do this on their own, of their own accord because they could. Even worse, covering it up until after the election which speaks to the individuals actually thinking that what they did was right rather than a complete outrage. Followed by spying on the media, we have real evidence that the government simply does not care anymore and feels that it has the right to do as it sees fit. Astounding.

Worse are you here that are defending this. What depraved vision of the government have you embraced when you need to defend Obama against something that he himself has condemned? I don’t see people here except the very few minority that defend Obama by claiming that he did not order this. That point has already been given. Instead, the actions the IRS took itself are being defended. In this thread and several others we have party hacks demanding that what the IRS did was perfectly all right. No issue there. As the OP pointed out, this is BY FAR the scariest thing about this ‘scandal.’ The fact that some can’t even tell why this is such a big deal and even go to the lengths to demand that it is just fine is appalling. Obama himself stated this was terrible. Everyone should be able to see the obvious.

Go back and read the OP, look at what he is actually getting at and realize that this is not a democrat problem that is being pointed out. It is not even a party problem. It is a pervasive issue that pertains to the government in general, regardless of who or what is running it.

Holy shit.

What the IRS did.....as far as I can tell at this point....is NOT perfectly alright. It is flawed in many ways. Name the USMB members who have stated that what was done.....as far as we can tell at this point....was perfectly alright.

The idea that we ( liberals ) more likely to bow down to tyranny that the lock-step nutters here is PURE BULLSHIT.

Have you gone through the thread?

For the most part. You have a shocker for me?

 

[FA_Q2]

Holy shit.

What the IRS did.....as far as I can tell at this point....is NOT perfectly alright. It is flawed in many ways. Name the USMB members who have stated that what was done.....as far as we can tell at this point....was perfectly alright.

In this thread and a few others I can come up with an incomplete list of some of the defenders:
Lakhota, Seawytch, Old Rocks, TM, JoeB131, poet, sfcalifornia, C_Clayton_Jones, Moonglow, EriktheRed, zeke, Sallow

About half are outright defending the actions and the others are simply deflecting by talking about how bad republicans are. I think that you have not even bothered to read through some of these threads of you don’t see the bullshit white knights here. The first reaction should be condemning the IRS for targeting political groups NOT screaming BOOOOOOSH or claiming some other bullshit. That just does not seem to be the case here though.

The idea that we ( liberals ) more likely to bow down to tyranny that the lock-step nutters here is PURE BULLSHIT.

Well, you are showing partisan hackery here. Never did I state that liberals were more likely to do anything. I never even mentioned liberals at all. I did, however, SPECIFICALLY state that this was not a democrat or republican problem. Right now, as a matter of fact, liberals ARE more likely to be swallowing this tyrannical bullshit though because it is the liberal’s guy in office. The same was true with Bush. The so called ‘conservatives’ bought all kinds of tyrannical crap when he was in office because it was ‘their’ guy. Remember the Patriot Act? That horrendous piece of legislation that the conservatives were fine with but the liberals screamed about? Did you not notice that when Obama signed it that the liberals were strangely silent but somehow the conservatives were upset now? Face it, lock step nutters is NOT a republican thing. They are all over the damn place and the liberals have just as many idiot lock step partisans as the conservatives have.

It is of worthy note that you mentioned ‘liberals’ and then ‘lock-step nutters’ here in a way that would suggest that liberals were on one side and the nutters were on the other. Such is partisanship and is no different than the nutters themselves.

 

[FA_Q2]

It actually seems to be worse than I thought. I really didn't expect so many people to try to make this into a partisan issue.

Ditto. I am surprised because I expect the standard peanut gallery that always comes in and defends anything that is remotely connected with the party of choice as much as those that I expected to come here and demand that Obama is such a terrible guy for this. They didn’t notice that you didn’t implicate Obama though. The gallery from both sides is here and, in all honesty, just as scary on both sides. You can see the defenders rushing in but less subtle are the people that jumped on the anti-Obama bandwagon here as well. As I said, 8 pages and almost no one has addressed this without partisan spin attached.

It is sad watching people slide into such opposition against each other without realizing that they are both opposing something the other side is not. Smoke and mirrors. Smoke and mirrors.

 

[Flopper]

It is worth noting here that we have gone on for eight pages and almost one hundred twenty posts and I do not think that one single person has addressed the OP’s original point: the runaway government. So far we have virtually everyone trying to blame this on Obama or deflect it all on some other republican president (I have read from Regan to Bush here – getting kind of off the beaten path on that one) but virtually nothing on the utter reality that the IRS committed and hid an act that it outright refused to do decades ago even when ordered.

I have to say that the OP brings up a very interesting point. I am not sure if this did not touch the administration or not but the facts as they are at this point don’t show that it did. I don’t think anything will turn up either way as wherever this did come from was not likely painting a map to be discovered but I would almost prefer that it was ordered by Obama. At least then we have a culprit – a singular corrupt person that will be out of government in a few years. Scarier is the thought that we have slid so far and so completely that these agencies would do this on their own, of their own accord because they could. Even worse, covering it up until after the election which speaks to the individuals actually thinking that what they did was right rather than a complete outrage. Followed by spying on the media, we have real evidence that the government simply does not care anymore and feels that it has the right to do as it sees fit. Astounding.

Worse are you here that are defending this. What depraved vision of the government have you embraced when you need to defend Obama against something that he himself has condemned? I don’t see people here except the very few minority that defend Obama by claiming that he did not order this. That point has already been given. Instead, the actions the IRS took itself are being defended. In this thread and several others we have party hacks demanding that what the IRS did was perfectly all right. No issue there. As the OP pointed out, this is BY FAR the scariest thing about this ‘scandal.’ The fact that some can’t even tell why this is such a big deal and even go to the lengths to demand that it is just fine is appalling. Obama himself stated this was terrible. Everyone should be able to see the obvious.

Go back and read the OP, look at what he is actually getting at and realize that this is not a democrat problem that is being pointed out. It is not even a party problem. It is a pervasive issue that pertains to the government in general, regardless of who or what is running it.

Funny how interpretation of a topic can be so different for different posters. The topic seemed to be a comparison of the Nixon/Wategate scandal 40 years ago compared to the Obama/IRS scandal. Runaway government seems to be a different topic but what the hell, half the posts have nothing at all the do with the topic.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Holy shit.

What the IRS did.....as far as I can tell at this point....is NOT perfectly alright. It is flawed in many ways. Name the USMB members who have stated that what was done.....as far as we can tell at this point....was perfectly alright.

The idea that we ( liberals ) more likely to bow down to tyranny that the lock-step nutters here is PURE BULLSHIT.

Have you gone through the thread?

For the most part. You have a shocker for me?

Define shocker.

He fired the people responsible, which I thought was an overreaction, personally.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It is worth noting here that we have gone on for eight pages and almost one hundred twenty posts and I do not think that one single person has addressed the OP’s original point: the runaway government. So far we have virtually everyone trying to blame this on Obama or deflect it all on some other republican president (I have read from Regan to Bush here – getting kind of off the beaten path on that one) but virtually nothing on the utter reality that the IRS committed and hid an act that it outright refused to do decades ago even when ordered.

I have to say that the OP brings up a very interesting point. I am not sure if this did not touch the administration or not but the facts as they are at this point don’t show that it did. I don’t think anything will turn up either way as wherever this did come from was not likely painting a map to be discovered but I would almost prefer that it was ordered by Obama. At least then we have a culprit – a singular corrupt person that will be out of government in a few years. Scarier is the thought that we have slid so far and so completely that these agencies would do this on their own, of their own accord because they could. Even worse, covering it up until after the election which speaks to the individuals actually thinking that what they did was right rather than a complete outrage. Followed by spying on the media, we have real evidence that the government simply does not care anymore and feels that it has the right to do as it sees fit. Astounding.

Worse are you here that are defending this. What depraved vision of the government have you embraced when you need to defend Obama against something that he himself has condemned? I don’t see people here except the very few minority that defend Obama by claiming that he did not order this. That point has already been given. Instead, the actions the IRS took itself are being defended. In this thread and several others we have party hacks demanding that what the IRS did was perfectly all right. No issue there. As the OP pointed out, this is BY FAR the scariest thing about this ‘scandal.’ The fact that some can’t even tell why this is such a big deal and even go to the lengths to demand that it is just fine is appalling. Obama himself stated this was terrible. Everyone should be able to see the obvious.

Go back and read the OP, look at what he is actually getting at and realize that this is not a democrat problem that is being pointed out. It is not even a party problem. It is a pervasive issue that pertains to the government in general, regardless of who or what is running it.

Funny how interpretation of a topic can be so different for different posters. The topic seemed to be a comparison of the Nixon/Wategate scandal 40 years ago compared to the Obama/IRS scandal. Runaway government seems to be a different topic but what the hell, half the posts have nothing at all the do with the topic.

I used Watergate because Friday was the 4o year anniversary of the start of the hearings and the point seemed obvious. Nixon was forced out of office for trying to get the IRS to do what it did all on its own last year.

 

[francoHFW]

Nixon destroved respect for gov't, Reagan took advantage to pander to the rich, and ruin the non rich and the country- Thank God Obama was elected and is slowly turning around the bull ship. Averting a depression, getting our rep back and the most important social reform ever is good enough for great- Comparing him to Nixon is pure brainwashed idiocy. No there there.

 

[francoHFW]

Nixon did tens of things he could have been impeached for. Our gov't can get out of it's own way. It's not dominant, and no one's word appears to be enough for the conspiracies everywhere, idiot GOP. Have ANOTHER ten investigations, dumbazz dupes. LOL

 

[JQPublic1]

This is the purpose of supply side economics. Reagan, Clinton, Junebug, Barry-O are all supply siders. The only difference between them is corporate sponsorship.

Fake liberals don't want to fix it. They do not have an acceptable vision for the nation.

Nutballs are in denial about Reagan and Junebug, so they can't fix it despite claiming to want to fix it because halfwits exist to do what they are told. The capture of halfwit America by religious nuts and the MIC in 1980 was a very bad thing indeed.

What did people expect? That is my question. The America that re elected Reagan and re elected Junebug is a despicably degenerate nation, not worth a god damn, and so deserves the economic fucking every president since Reagan has given it.

Nothing is going to change until the focus moves back toward policies expanding and maintaining a rock solid blue collar middle class.

You don't really have a clue, do you?

When you take posts apart point by point or construct a better path instead of your pathetic drive-bys parroting halfwit nutball cant, we might have something to discuss.

To recap: America redefined itself as a nation of almost unlimited opportunities during the Depression and after WWII. Then, in 1980, the filthy god damned scum of the earth began to undo themselves - and the nation - by doing the bidding of religious and military charlatans.

Next.

I see you have encountered the big baaaddd RABBI(T). Don't be alarmed, he just hops in and out leaving his wittle wabbit dwopping everywhere!

 

[JQPublic1]

[
Typical lib..declare "problem solved" or "there is no 'there' there" and believe that makes it all go away.
Newsflash....The three scandals are NOT going away.
Benghazi, IRS, spying on the media....It's all going to be very public..
And the libs can tote out the biggest broom in the country and still they will not be aboe to sweep this under the rug...
Nope, the Teflon protecting Obama has been breached.

Frankly, then, why is no one really talking about it outside political circles?

This is something people don't care about. they simply don't.

and that says a lot about our society today. when citizens don't care if the govt lies to them and steals their money, whats next?

the libs in power are following the alinsky plan to the letter under obama. its about destroying what made this country great and bringing the USA down to the level of the third world. destroy capitalism and make every citizen equally miserable---thats what obama and his minions are trying to do to YOU.

Yeah, liberals want that filthy rich 1% to be as miserable as the other 99% of us!

 

[FA_Q2]

Funny how interpretation of a topic can be so different for different posters. The topic seemed to be a comparison of the Nixon/Wategate scandal 40 years ago compared to the Obama/IRS scandal. Runaway government seems to be a different topic but what the hell, half the posts have nothing at all the do with the topic.

Not really. That was what he directly spoke about. The IRS and the fact that, all on its own, it made such outrageous and outright illegal targeting. There is no ‘interpretation’ about that. Of course, it helps to have a handle on each posters style. I find that QW seems to mean just what he types but leaves a little room for you to run away with his posts. QW can correct me if I am wrong here but I think that he does this on purpose. Letting others run away with their own misconceptions and biases and then hitting them over the head with it after.

In this thread, it seems to be working quite well. You can see the reactionaries coming out immediately, the ones that have declared Obama the dictator in chief in ordering this fiasco and the ones that are demanding that it was BOOOOSH or that nothing was done at all. I really quite appreciate the style, I find it amusing

 

[LoneLaugher]

Have you gone through the thread?

For the most part. You have a shocker for me?

Define shocker.

He fired the people responsible, which I thought was an overreaction, personally.

Did Joe say the actions of the IRS were PERFECTLY ALRIGHT?

That is a yes or no question. The accusation was that "people" think what the IRS did was perfectly alright. I objected to that characterization.....which was used to make the point that we are welcoming tyranny. I call bullshit.

 

[FA_Q2]

You are involved in the other thread where several people like LK, Sallow, No Nukes and Dot Com are directly stating that the IRS has done nothing wrong. Stop obstructing. I am beginning to think that you are just doing this to be a pain as it is blatantly dishonest.

Further, joe thinks that this act, which is illegal, was not even enough to justify firing the one in charge. That is what he stated thinking that it was an overreaction. Seriously, how much do they have to marginalize such an act before you realize that they accept this as no big deal? You are rejecting the blatantly obvious.

 

[Mac1958]

.

For some, virtually any government action is acceptable. And then they'll mock you for protesting it.

.

 

[Circe]

Forty years ago I had just completed my second tour in Vietnam and was about to separate from the Army. I remember the political cancer very well. Americans were livid that a President would use the powers of the government for political purposes. Now another President is doing the same thing, only on a larger scale, but he is being defended.
Has such political corruption become both accepted and expected by today's society, or are people just dumber now than they were 40 years ago?

I was around 40 years ago, too, and watched the hearings live with great interest. Talk about high drama. I missed the day that John Dean told about the tape recorder!!!!!! I've been kicking myself ever since.

But Watergate was NOTHING. Nobody died. Nothing happened. We still have NO IDEA why the burglars went into the Dem headquarters but it can't have been anything important, the McGovern campaign lost 49 states and didn't matter. There has always been much speculation that it was about info they had on a sex scandal --- I was way too naive then to know this as newspapers didn't print such things, but that was apparently speculation, but who knows? They never told. It never mattered.

The Cuban Missile Crisis sure mattered. That was a near-escape. Vietnam sure mattered. And here's a scandal for you that mattered: during the 1950s there really were communists throughout the State Department! We now know Joe McCarthy was perfectly correct about that. A drunk, but right. And spies galore: Hiss, the Rosenbergs. These things were incredibly important.

Sometimes secrets matter, but nothing is going on right now that matters at all, it's just the usual maneuvering to get out in front of the next election, and to block legislation from the White House. Guys: it's like Global Warming, none of this is REAL. It's just politics, to smear one party for the advantage of the other.