50 years later: has government dependency helped or hurt blacks?

[Oldstyle]

I feel several deflections coming. There is no way any of them takes this on!!

To start with government dependency is on the rise while racism is waning. Even someone wearing the ideological blinders that you two wear should be cognizant of that fact. You don't want to admit that's the case however because to do so is to totally cuts your theory that this is a problem caused by "overt" racism, right off at the knees!

Sounds like a deflection to me.

Studies have shown that one's hearing is negatively affected when one's head is firmly lodged in one's posterior...just saying...

 

[Asclepias]

Back in the 50's and 60's, when there WAS institutional racism, blacks had a legitimate excuse for their community being in the toilet. Now, after 50 years of government handouts, affirmative action programs, welfare, food stamps, govt. grants, they're STILL in the toilet only now they have no one to blame except themselves. Acting as though the climate today is no different than it was 50 years ago, they can still make themselves believe that their failures are still somebody else's fault. It might make them feel better but it doesn't improve their lives (or society in general). And as long as politicians keep feeding this bullshit to them (for their vote), I see no end to this cycle of failure and dependency.

So racial discrimination only counts if its in the 50's or 60's? Anything prior to or subsequent to that is not covered under the white peoples statute of limitations in your opinion? Are you really saying racism does not exist to this very day and does not affect people?

 

[ScienceRocks]

Maybe they should open up stores within the inner-cities?

or maybe become teachers????

Anything is better then joining a gang.

 

[Asclepias]

To start with government dependency is on the rise while racism is waning. Even someone wearing the ideological blinders that you two wear should be cognizant of that fact. You don't want to admit that's the case however because to do so is to totally cuts your theory that this is a problem caused by "overt" racism, right off at the knees!

Sounds like a deflection to me.

Studies have shown that one's hearing is negatively affected when one's head is firmly lodged in one's posterior...just saying...

That was sad. Now youre reduced to insults? Can you give a real answer to the mans question?

 

[Oldstyle]

Sounds like a deflection to me.

Studies have shown that one's hearing is negatively affected when one's head is firmly lodged in one's posterior...just saying...

That was sad. Now youre reduced to insults? Can you give a real answer to the mans question?

I did...and I'm still waiting on a response...

 

[S.J.]

No one can seem to answer this question or explain how the past govt dependency affects the present but the past racism doesn't.

Must be hard holding both opinions in that head without going cross eyed

Back in the 50's and 60's, when there WAS institutional racism, blacks had a legitimate excuse for their community being in the toilet. Now, after 50 years of government handouts, affirmative action programs, welfare, food stamps, govt. grants, they're STILL in the toilet only now they have no one to blame except themselves. Acting as though the climate today is no different than it was 50 years ago, they can still make themselves believe that their failures are still somebody else's fault. It might make them feel better but it doesn't improve their lives (or society in general). And as long as politicians keep feeding this bullshit to them (for their vote), I see no end to this cycle of failure and dependency.

So are you still going with "only some of the past affects the future and others don't"? Since you didn't link to any information is that coming from the yourass.com or becauseisaidso.org?

I'm going with history. You have legislated equality and instead of taking advantage of the opportunity to build a productive future, blacks have taken advantage of the opportunity stay dependent on government assistance. Your idea of success is making Whitey pay for an injustice YOU never experienced yourself, and the stigma of being the least productive race in the world doesn't seem to bother you. You're out of excuses, and the only ones who don't realize that is the black community who keeps clinging to the "struggle" that ended 50 years ago.

 

[Asclepias]

I do remember that post. I made a statement and then I followed it up with my thoughts on why that statement was valid. It's what you DO when you debate.

I'm not sure why you think this post is remarkable or proves something to your argument. I never said that I hadn't critiqued...nor did I say that anyone else shouldn't critique. What I took exception to was your belief that you had the right to critique others but that they had to ask for your permission before critiquing you.

I see where the confusion is now. When I say critique "me" I am using that to encompass all Black people. I have no problem with criticism if it is directed at me personally. If you attack my race I'm going to let you know its rude and unappreciated.

Actually you have less of a right to demand permission to critique your "race" than you do for yourself. Unless of course you've been elected spokesperson for your "race" and I didn't get the memo!

I have every right to demand permission for my race if you are asking me to represent their opinion. As a matter of fact I think of it as a responsibility.

 

[Oldstyle]

I'm still waiting for him to come back and dispute that government dependency is increasing dramatically while racism is waning. I don't think it's going to happen though...

 

[Oldstyle]

I see where the confusion is now. When I say critique "me" I am using that to encompass all Black people. I have no problem with criticism if it is directed at me personally. If you attack my race I'm going to let you know its rude and unappreciated.

Actually you have less of a right to demand permission to critique your "race" than you do for yourself. Unless of course you've been elected spokesperson for your "race" and I didn't get the memo!

I have every right to demand permission for my race if you are asking me to represent their opinion. As a matter of fact I think of it as a responsibility.

Well as soon as someone DOES ask you to represent your race feel free to do so...until then please desist from naming yourself spokesman for black people everywhere!

 

[S.J.]

Back in the 50's and 60's, when there WAS institutional racism, blacks had a legitimate excuse for their community being in the toilet. Now, after 50 years of government handouts, affirmative action programs, welfare, food stamps, govt. grants, they're STILL in the toilet only now they have no one to blame except themselves. Acting as though the climate today is no different than it was 50 years ago, they can still make themselves believe that their failures are still somebody else's fault. It might make them feel better but it doesn't improve their lives (or society in general). And as long as politicians keep feeding this bullshit to them (for their vote), I see no end to this cycle of failure and dependency.

So racial discrimination only counts if its in the 50's or 60's? Anything prior to or subsequent to that is not covered under the white peoples statute of limitations in your opinion? Are you really saying racism does not exist to this very day and does not affect people?

And once again, you illustrate my point. You're stuck in the 50's.

 

[Asclepias]

Back in the 50's and 60's, when there WAS institutional racism, blacks had a legitimate excuse for their community being in the toilet. Now, after 50 years of government handouts, affirmative action programs, welfare, food stamps, govt. grants, they're STILL in the toilet only now they have no one to blame except themselves. Acting as though the climate today is no different than it was 50 years ago, they can still make themselves believe that their failures are still somebody else's fault. It might make them feel better but it doesn't improve their lives (or society in general). And as long as politicians keep feeding this bullshit to them (for their vote), I see no end to this cycle of failure and dependency.

So are you still going with "only some of the past affects the future and others don't"? Since you didn't link to any information is that coming from the yourass.com or becauseisaidso.org?

I'm going with history. You have legislated equality and instead of taking advantage of the opportunity to build a productive future, blacks have taken advantage of the opportunity stay dependent on government assistance. Your idea of success is making Whitey pay for an injustice YOU never experienced yourself, and the stigma of being the least productive race in the world doesn't seem to bother you. You're out of excuses, and the only ones who don't realize that is the black community who keeps clinging to the "struggle" that ended 50 years ago.

No one legislated equality. Thats impossible because its a social construct. What was legislated was a way to secure legal recourse in the event racial discrimination was practiced. The very idea you just professed of Blacks having a stigma of being the least productive race in the world is exactly why those laws and policies need to be on the books. Until those backwards, ignorant notions are gone the laws need to stay.

 

[Oldstyle]

The point that I was making was a simple one...

If government dependency is increasing at a rapid rate over the past forty years and at the same time racism is decreasing at a rapid rate...then why would conditions for blacks in our inner cities be worsening instead of getting better? According to both Closed and Asclepias that shouldn't be happening...yet it is.

 

[Asclepias]

I'm still waiting for him to come back and dispute that government dependency is increasing dramatically while racism is waning. I don't think it's going to happen though...

According to your argument its impossible to increase it dramatically. If only the present counts then there are no habits created and the very definition of dependency doesn't exist.

 

[Unkotare]

You stop being an asshole first.

Nice playground response. "No, you first!"

 

[Oldstyle]

I'm still waiting for him to come back and dispute that government dependency is increasing dramatically while racism is waning. I don't think it's going to happen though...

According to your argument its impossible to increase it dramatically. If only the present counts then there are no habits created and the very definition of dependency doesn't exist.

Where was it that I argued that only the present counts?

Kindly explain how your theories hold water if government dependency has increased at a rapid rate over the past 40 years while racism has dramatically waned!

 

[Asclepias]

The point that I was making was a simple one...

If government dependency is increasing at a rapid rate over the past forty years and at the same time racism is decreasing at a rapid rate...then why would conditions for blacks in our inner cities be worsening instead of getting better? According to both Closed and Asclepias that shouldn't be happening...yet it is.

You said if. You are wrong in your assumptions, mixed up, and lost trying to explain why events over the last forty years can have an effect on the present but not the last 400 years.

 

[Unkotare]

3rd time here. Do you have a point here? ?

The "point" is that I asked you a question. Why won't you answer it? What is so difficult about this?

Because assuming that legalized racism exists today has only been said by you ...

I didn't assume anything, I asked you a question. At this point it sure looks like you are avoiding it for a reason.

 

[Oldstyle]

I get the feeling that both of my "opponents" in this argument are about to remember that they have a pressing engagement they are late for...like organizing their sock drawers. LOL

 

[Asclepias]

Actually you have less of a right to demand permission to critique your "race" than you do for yourself. Unless of course you've been elected spokesperson for your "race" and I didn't get the memo!

I have every right to demand permission for my race if you are asking me to represent their opinion. As a matter of fact I think of it as a responsibility.

Well as soon as someone DOES ask you to represent your race feel free to do so...until then please desist from naming yourself spokesman for black people everywhere!

Ive been asked several times.

 

[Unkotare]

Are you saying racism doesn't exist anymore? ...

No, I'm not. In fact, I have specifically said that it does, on this thread and many, many, many others. See how easy it is to answer a question? See how that works? Doesn't hurt or nothin'. Try it.