50 years later: has government dependency helped or hurt blacks?

[Oldstyle]

So from this thread we've found out that being dependent on govt programs may or may not hurt blacks over the past 50 years. But we aren't allowed to look any further into the past because the past doesn't mean anything. I know, I know...it doesn't make sense but this is what they are saying

Govt dependency can hurt blacks but not legalized racism and discrimination. Only dependency because for this topic, we are discouraged from looking at cause and effect. Only with racism and discrimination tho...not everything else because this is an honest discussion

And whites know all the answers to what blacks need. Even tho this fits the very definition of racism we are discouraged from using words by what they actually mean.

Debating is pretty easy when you make the rules and don't use words as they are clearly defined you silly transvestites. Transvestites means you are confused...

This is fun...but really pointless

Who has discouraged anyone from looking at "cause and effect"? All that's been pointed out is that constantly excusing what's happening NOW on something that happened almost two hundred years ago reaches a level of farce at some point.

You people aren't interested in a debate. Asclepias has set down conditions where he is allowed to critique others but others are not allowed to critique him. That's NOT a debate...that's a lecture!

The problem is that lectures are usually given to educate and can stand up to questioning and debate. Asclepias's lectures can do neither, so he hides behind accusations of racism for anyone who questions what it is that he says. It's playing the race card and that's the fall back position of intellectual underachievers like Deanie.

 

[Asclepias]

...............and your credibility remains at zero.

I'm heart broken you doubt my credibility!!

I hope not, because you would have a lot more heartache in store. There is no reason for anyone reading this thread to take you at your word after you have repeatedly lied AND admitted to it.

You do know that you are pretty transparent right? Just admit you cant hang. I'm flattered you think I'm so formidable that you would have to resort to that.

 

[Unkotare]

Ever heard of Jim Crow?

Yes I have heard of that legacy of the democrat party, thanks. You noticed that I used the word "today" in my question, right?

I know it's another sad attempt to focus the discussion only the way you want it to go. Are you still concerned with the location of racism anymore?

Mine was a direct question that included the word "today." I was hoping you'd address that question, that's all. And of course I used the word "where" as in what specific iterations, not a geographic location, but I'm sure you understood that.

 

[Asclepias]

Are you denying it exists? Or just concerned with its location?

I'm interested in what "legalized" forms you are referring to.

Ever heard of Jim Crow? I really hope you're getting around to a point or are you going to wait until I say "Its Saturday" then take 4 pages of calling me a liar to deflect like you did the other guy?

Got a point?

If you get to talking about anything legal they will jump on the political bandwagon and accuse democrats of causing these conditions. Doing so is indicative of knee jerk reactions. Basically what they are saying is the since Lincoln got shot Dems have been running the country. They dont realize these laws would not have been passed without both Dems and Repubs agreeing to them.

 

[ClosedCaption]

So from this thread we've found out that being dependent on govt programs may or may not hurt blacks over the past 50 years. But we aren't allowed to look any further into the past because the past doesn't mean anything. I know, I know...it doesn't make sense but this is what they are saying

Govt dependency can hurt blacks but not legalized racism and discrimination. Only dependency because for this topic, we are discouraged from looking at cause and effect. Only with racism and discrimination tho...not everything else because this is an honest discussion

And whites know all the answers to what blacks need. Even tho this fits the very definition of racism we are discouraged from using words by what they actually mean.

Debating is pretty easy when you make the rules and don't use words as they are clearly defined you silly transvestites. Transvestites means you are confused...

This is fun...but really pointless

Who has discouraged anyone from looking at "cause and effect"? All that's been pointed out is that constantly excusing what's happening NOW on something that happened almost two hundred years ago reaches a level of farce at some point.

200 hundred years ago? Jim Crow ended in 1813?

You people aren't interested in a debate. Asclepias has set down conditions where he is allowed to critique others but others are not allowed to critique him. That's NOT a debate...that's a lecture!

You can do whatever you want. No one is the ruler of you.

The problem is that lectures are usually given to educate and can stand up to questioning and debate. Asclepias's lectures can do neither, so he hides behind accusations of racism for anyone who questions what it is that he says. It's playing the race card and that's the fall back position of intellectual underachievers like Deanie.

Ok, I get it, you like to call names. Why are you quoting me?

 

[Oldstyle]

I'm heart broken you doubt my credibility!!

I hope not, because you would have a lot more heartache in store. There is no reason for anyone reading this thread to take you at your word after you have repeatedly lied AND admitted to it.

You do know that you are pretty transparent right? Just admit you cant hang. I'm flattered you think I'm so formidable that you would have to resort to that.

You can usually tell who the low hanging fruit are on this board, Asclepias...they are the ones that claim to be members of Mensa while failing miserably at arguing their point.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Yes I have heard of that legacy of the democrat party, thanks. You noticed that I used the word "today" in my question, right?

I know it's another sad attempt to focus the discussion only the way you want it to go. Are you still concerned with the location of racism anymore?

Mine was a direct question that included the word "today." I was hoping you'd address that question, that's all. And of course I used the word "where" as in what specific iterations, not a geographic location, but I'm sure you understood that.

3rd time here. Do you have a point here? I understand you don't disagree with anything I've said (from your lack of rebuttal or even addressing stuff I type) so what are you doing exactly?

 

[Asclepias]

So from this thread we've found out that being dependent on govt programs may or may not hurt blacks over the past 50 years. But we aren't allowed to look any further into the past because the past doesn't mean anything. I know, I know...it doesn't make sense but this is what they are saying

Govt dependency can hurt blacks but not legalized racism and discrimination. Only dependency because for this topic, we are discouraged from looking at cause and effect. Only with racism and discrimination tho...not everything else because this is an honest discussion

And whites know all the answers to what blacks need. Even tho this fits the very definition of racism we are discouraged from using words by what they actually mean.

Debating is pretty easy when you make the rules and don't use words as they are clearly defined you silly transvestites. Transvestites means you are confused...

This is fun...but really pointless

Who has discouraged anyone from looking at "cause and effect"? All that's been pointed out is that constantly excusing what's happening NOW on something that happened almost two hundred years ago reaches a level of farce at some point.

You people aren't interested in a debate. Asclepias has set down conditions where he is allowed to critique others but others are not allowed to critique him. That's NOT a debate...that's a lecture!

The problem is that lectures are usually given to educate and can stand up to questioning and debate. Asclepias's lectures can do neither, so he hides behind accusations of racism for anyone who questions what it is that he says. It's playing the race card and that's the fall back position of intellectual underachievers like Deanie.

Where did anyone excuse anything? Pretty please quote where this was done. As a matter of fact please post where I said i was allowed to critique. You cant because it was never said. You guys are a joke when it comes to debating. You can easily go back and see the record.

 

[Asclepias]

I hope not, because you would have a lot more heartache in store. There is no reason for anyone reading this thread to take you at your word after you have repeatedly lied AND admitted to it.

You do know that you are pretty transparent right? Just admit you cant hang. I'm flattered you think I'm so formidable that you would have to resort to that.

You can usually tell who the low hanging fruit are on this board, Asclepias...they are the ones that claim to be members of Mensa while failing miserably at arguing their point.

I freely admitted I was pulling Tanks chain specifically so people wouldn't take it as a fact. I know you are frustrated I dont take for granted the white man knows best for me. All I can say is tough and you better get used to it.

 

[ClosedCaption]

So from this thread we've found out that being dependent on govt programs may or may not hurt blacks over the past 50 years. But we aren't allowed to look any further into the past because the past doesn't mean anything. I know, I know...it doesn't make sense but this is what they are saying

Govt dependency can hurt blacks but not legalized racism and discrimination. Only dependency because for this topic, we are discouraged from looking at cause and effect. Only with racism and discrimination tho...not everything else because this is an honest discussion

And whites know all the answers to what blacks need. Even tho this fits the very definition of racism we are discouraged from using words by what they actually mean.

Debating is pretty easy when you make the rules and don't use words as they are clearly defined you silly transvestites. Transvestites means you are confused...

This is fun...but really pointless

Who has discouraged anyone from looking at "cause and effect"? All that's been pointed out is that constantly excusing what's happening NOW on something that happened almost two hundred years ago reaches a level of farce at some point.

Are you looking in the mirror?

People like you always demand that we go back and look at the "root cause" of everything and stop focusing on who's responsible for what happened NOW. It's a way to pass the blame from those who aren't doing the right thing to someone else. It's saying to people doing stupid things that it's not THEIR fault but someone else who is to blame. You didn't flunk that test in school because you didn't study for it! Oh, no...you flunked that test because of "cultural bias"! You didn't lose that job because you didn't show up to work or showed up stoned...you lost that job because of "overt racism".

So ignoring the root cause will give us greater insight of how things are today? So if you show up with a dirty shirt it would be wrong to ask how it got that way and better to tell you over and over your shirt is dirty and I'm not interested in hearing how or why?

Ohhhh....That's why saying "blacks are doing bad" over and over is seen as a virtue.

If you show up with a dirty shirt and refuse to change it because someone else driving by splashed mud on it...then who's sitting there in a muddy shirt looking like an idiot? I don't really CARE why your shirt is dirty! I am however wondering why anyone would sit there in a wet, smelly shirt without doing something about it!

Change your shirt and get on with your life! Stop making excuses. Stop pretending that Life is fair. It isn't. It never has been. It never WILL be.

Sure sounds like you were encouraging reflection to me

 

[Oldstyle]

So from this thread we've found out that being dependent on govt programs may or may not hurt blacks over the past 50 years. But we aren't allowed to look any further into the past because the past doesn't mean anything. I know, I know...it doesn't make sense but this is what they are saying

Govt dependency can hurt blacks but not legalized racism and discrimination. Only dependency because for this topic, we are discouraged from looking at cause and effect. Only with racism and discrimination tho...not everything else because this is an honest discussion

And whites know all the answers to what blacks need. Even tho this fits the very definition of racism we are discouraged from using words by what they actually mean.

Debating is pretty easy when you make the rules and don't use words as they are clearly defined you silly transvestites. Transvestites means you are confused...

This is fun...but really pointless

Who has discouraged anyone from looking at "cause and effect"? All that's been pointed out is that constantly excusing what's happening NOW on something that happened almost two hundred years ago reaches a level of farce at some point.

You people aren't interested in a debate. Asclepias has set down conditions where he is allowed to critique others but others are not allowed to critique him. That's NOT a debate...that's a lecture!

The problem is that lectures are usually given to educate and can stand up to questioning and debate. Asclepias's lectures can do neither, so he hides behind accusations of racism for anyone who questions what it is that he says. It's playing the race card and that's the fall back position of intellectual underachievers like Deanie.

Where did anyone excuse anything? Pretty please quote where this was done. As a matter of fact please post where I said i was allowed to critique. You cant because it was never said. You guys are a joke when it comes to debating. You can easily go back and see the record.

All you've DONE is critique others since this string began! I have no problem with criticism but what amazed me, is that while regularly doing so you actually had the gall to declare that someone critiquing you in return was "rude" and that they needed your "permission" before doing so!

Is THAT your impression of what a "debate" consists of?

 

[Oldstyle]

So from this thread we've found out that being dependent on govt programs may or may not hurt blacks over the past 50 years. But we aren't allowed to look any further into the past because the past doesn't mean anything. I know, I know...it doesn't make sense but this is what they are saying

Govt dependency can hurt blacks but not legalized racism and discrimination. Only dependency because for this topic, we are discouraged from looking at cause and effect. Only with racism and discrimination tho...not everything else because this is an honest discussion

And whites know all the answers to what blacks need. Even tho this fits the very definition of racism we are discouraged from using words by what they actually mean.

Debating is pretty easy when you make the rules and don't use words as they are clearly defined you silly transvestites. Transvestites means you are confused...

This is fun...but really pointless

Who has discouraged anyone from looking at "cause and effect"? All that's been pointed out is that constantly excusing what's happening NOW on something that happened almost two hundred years ago reaches a level of farce at some point.

Are you looking in the mirror?

So ignoring the root cause will give us greater insight of how things are today? So if you show up with a dirty shirt it would be wrong to ask how it got that way and better to tell you over and over your shirt is dirty and I'm not interested in hearing how or why?

Ohhhh....That's why saying "blacks are doing bad" over and over is seen as a virtue.

If you show up with a dirty shirt and refuse to change it because someone else driving by splashed mud on it...then who's sitting there in a muddy shirt looking like an idiot? I don't really CARE why your shirt is dirty! I am however wondering why anyone would sit there in a wet, smelly shirt without doing something about it!

Change your shirt and get on with your life! Stop making excuses. Stop pretending that Life is fair. It isn't. It never has been. It never WILL be.

Sure sounds like you were encouraging reflection to me

I was encouraging the use of a little common sense. Your analogy of a dirty shirt I found to be as silly as Asclepias's contention that slavery before the Civil War is what's to blame for the ills of inner city black youth today.

 

[S.J.]

While the rest of the world moves on, the black community steadfastly clings to the good old days of Jim Crow, the KKK, and the Civil Rights Movement.

 

[Unkotare]

I'm heart broken you doubt my credibility!!

I hope not, because you would have a lot more heartache in store. There is no reason for anyone reading this thread to take you at your word after you have repeatedly lied AND admitted to it.

You do know that you are pretty transparent right? Just admit you cant hang. I'm flattered you think I'm so formidable that you would have to resort to that.

You know this approach isn't working, right? You know that anyone can read this thread and see at least two instances where you lied and then admitted to it, right? You know this isn't lending you the least bit of credibility, right?

Why don't you stop being an asshole and try having an honest, reasonable discussion without the lies and the racism?

 

[Oldstyle]

You do know that you are pretty transparent right? Just admit you cant hang. I'm flattered you think I'm so formidable that you would have to resort to that.

You can usually tell who the low hanging fruit are on this board, Asclepias...they are the ones that claim to be members of Mensa while failing miserably at arguing their point.

I freely admitted I was pulling Tanks chain specifically so people wouldn't take it as a fact. I know you are frustrated I dont take for granted the white man knows best for me. All I can say is tough and you better get used to it.

Since at no point did I tell you that the "white man knows best" for you I'm hardly frustrated that you don't accept that. I think you're unwilling to look at the real causes for the problems that urban black youths are facing so you fall back on some silly rant about lingering racial hangover left from slavery and the "overt" racism that permeates the very fiber of every white person living in the US. Quite frankly, you offer no solutions...only excuses.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Who has discouraged anyone from looking at "cause and effect"? All that's been pointed out is that constantly excusing what's happening NOW on something that happened almost two hundred years ago reaches a level of farce at some point.

Are you looking in the mirror?

If you show up with a dirty shirt and refuse to change it because someone else driving by splashed mud on it...then who's sitting there in a muddy shirt looking like an idiot? I don't really CARE why your shirt is dirty! I am however wondering why anyone would sit there in a wet, smelly shirt without doing something about it!

Change your shirt and get on with your life! Stop making excuses. Stop pretending that Life is fair. It isn't. It never has been. It never WILL be.

Sure sounds like you were encouraging reflection to me

I was encouraging the use of a little common sense. Your analogy of a dirty shirt I found to be as silly as Asclepias's contention that slavery before the Civil War is what's to blame for the ills of inner city black youth today.

Annnnnnd you were encouraging looking back by being against it. Got it.

 

[Unkotare]

I know it's another sad attempt to focus the discussion only the way you want it to go. Are you still concerned with the location of racism anymore?

Mine was a direct question that included the word "today." I was hoping you'd address that question, that's all. And of course I used the word "where" as in what specific iterations, not a geographic location, but I'm sure you understood that.

3rd time here. Do you have a point here? ?

The "point" is that I asked you a question. Why won't you answer it? What is so difficult about this?

 

[Unkotare]

You do know that you are pretty transparent right? Just admit you cant hang. I'm flattered you think I'm so formidable that you would have to resort to that.

You can usually tell who the low hanging fruit are on this board, Asclepias...they are the ones that claim to be members of Mensa while failing miserably at arguing their point.

I freely admitted I was pulling Tanks chain ...

In other words, that you were lying AGAIN.

 

[Asclepias]

All you've DONE is critique others since this string began! I have no problem with criticism but what amazed me, is that while regularly doing so you actually had the gall to declare that someone critiquing you in return was "rude" and that they needed your "permission" before doing so!

Is THAT your impression of what a "debate" consists of?

Well I'll be damned! I actually did not think you specifically started the critiquing but the evidence is right here. Do you recognize this post?

One has only to look at the state of blacks in the US today to quickly realize that something has gone awry with King's notion of "doing something special" for them to make up for slavery and discrimination. It's one of those things that sounds so good in theory (like income redistribution) but never works in practice.

You've got generations of blacks that have been trapped by welfare handouts from politicians that gave lip service to equal justice and opportunity but really used the black vote to consolidate political power. You've got a President who sits in the Oval Office after short stints as both a US Senator and an Illinois State Senator in which he really did nothing to prove an understanding of the legislative process...a President who got to where he is BECAUSE of the color of his skin and not because of outstanding accomplishments as a lawyer...a college instructor...or as a legislator. THAT unfortunately is the legacy of Affirmative Action at the moment...people promoted because of their pigmentation rather than the content of their character.

 

[ClosedCaption]

While the rest of the world moves on, the black community steadfastly clings to the good old days of Jim Crow, the KKK, and the Civil Rights Movement.

By clings you mean affected by it? Or are you of the same school of thought that says the past has nothing to do with the present?