51% America Makes Less Than $30K

[Flopper]

We have hot shit here, and good docs (if you can afford it that is) we just don't have quality public health. That's not open heart surgery, that's a flu shot and a well baby checkup, at no cost.

Well you either have a system where most are treated by our quality care or every single person is treated and we don't have as good of care.

I guess it's all in what you expect out of our medical care system.

You are making a false choice. You can have good quality and everyone treated. That should always be the goal. And in that system the old die so that you have the money to keep the kids alive. It's rational, and it works.

Will you hold the same opinion when you grow old and finances dictate your survival? I doubt it when you find God for the first time in your Godless life and want to cling on to every hour of the day that you can.

Medical care is expensive no matter what country you go to. It's just a matter of who is going to pay for it. Great medical care costs great money. Crappy medical care is much less expensive but everybody gets that crappy care. We are one of the only countries in the world where you get great care, but not everybody gets care.

But you don't have to look over our borders to find that out. Look within our borders at Medicare, Medicaid and even the VA. Plenty of problems there because of plenty of cost cutting by our government. Why would anybody want to see these programs extended to each and every American is beyond me.

Medicare is better health insurance than most any insurance policy you can buy today. With hospital coverage (part A) at no cost and outpatient (Part B) at $104/mo. It's a bargain. Add a supplement to get drug coverage, limit maximum out of pocket expenses, and other goodies for about a $100 and you have a better plan than you can buy on the exchanges or anywhere else. 9 out of 10 doctors in the US are accepting new Medicare patients. and over 99% of the hospitals accept Medicare. No insurance company has wider coverage than Medicare.

Medicaid has made huge improvements and it's good insurance but because it's a state/federal cost sharing program how good depends on the state. In most states, you have a choice of providers (insurance companies). They offer all essential benefits in Obamacare at no premium, no co-pays, no deductibles. In my state 60% of the doctors are accepting new Medicaid patients. In some states due to low reimbursement rates, that percentage is as low 40%.

Well it all depends on how many private insured and private pay patients these facilities have. If you look at closed down facilities, they usually take place in lower income areas where the majority of people are government patients. They have no private insurance or private pay people to recoup losses.

Medicaid is considered the worst possible care anybody can get in the USA. This is not to mention how many of these programs get ripped off by the billions every year which doesn't happen nearly as much with insurance companies because they use (or have used) some of their money for investigative fraud.

That's not my experience. I have one son and his 4 kids on Medicaid. When he was working he had Aetna. After he was partially disabled, he went on Medicaid for 2 years. Every doctor he had as well as the kids doctors agreed to accept his Medicaid. During those years he had a number of procedures. Two of the kids got braces and Medicaid paid all the costs. The only problem they had was some of the prescription drugs were no covered and one of the kids needed a counselor which was difficult getting approved. Other than that it was good insurance. He is now working and has Group Health in Washington which is not as good as his Medicaid.

As I said, a lot has changed in Medicaid with Obamacare and expanded Medicaid. Unfortunately, there are still states without the expanded Medicaid, the addition coverage for kids, and reimbursement rates as low as 50% of the Medicare rate.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

These nut jobs think that you are a communist who wants the state to own and run everything if you do not believe in completely unregulated market capitalism. These people are nuts. You can't reason with them

You are the unreasonable one...Capitalism fed your ass and purchased you video games and I phone and your daddy's pick up ect ect ect and built the greatest nation and the best place to live on the planet. Your kids and grandchildren will not be so fortunate.

I never said I had anything against capitalism, just uncontrolled capitalism. The middle class would never have grown as big as it did without unions. Get a clue already.

That's liberal propaganda. Unions didn't grow the middle class. Capitalism did. The middle class was already in full flower in 1929.

What unions did was bring non-skilled people into the middle-class. The problem with that is that nothing good lasts forever. People left high school and got monkey jobs that paid well with benefits. They would inspect parts, turn nuts onto bolts, ride around on a floor sweeping machine, pull a lever on a machine when a part was put into place.

That was fine and dandy until those jobs became automated or left the country. Then, people found themselves in their middle ages with a family and no skill or trade to support them with. For many, it was a little too late in life to go to college or learn a trade, so they had no choice but to take lower wage jobs.

Without unions, some of those very same people would have made strides to getting a career. They might have attended college, might have learned a trade, might have started up their own business. But no, they thought those brainless jobs would be there forever because the unions said so.

Unions have done a lot of good for people, but they've also done a lot of bad that few would admit to.

Heaven forbid that a low skilled worker live a middle class existence. By the way, not everybody doing low skilled work has the ability to become educated and work their way up the ladder. Also, many that have some abilities to advance, have families, and would rather spend time with their kids at night instead of in night school, especially after eight hours of work and hours on the freeway to boot. I would think republicans who talk the family values talk, would understand this. Gotta love red china though. They agree with the republicans in this country and don't allow unions any power, which keeps corporate profits high, and wages low. The offshoring and trickle down reagan type tax policies is what has killed the middle class in this country.

Oh, so back to that; it's never a Democrats fault. Blame somebody that's been in the ground for a good number of years.

Reagan, Bush, Clinton, none of them killed the middle-class. What killed the middle-class were greedy unions and people that thought their mindless jobs were worth superior pay and benefits. That's what killed the middle-class.

The second thing that killed the middle-class were the consumers who refused to pay prices for merchandise that those workers made. It's why Walmart is the number one store in America today.

Oh, so some would rather spend their time with family instead of advancing themselves. Well EXCUSE ME! If that's the way you feel, fine, but don't complain because you don't have a job that pays sufficient money. I would like for somebody to pay me to sit home and drink beer. Do you think government can provide for me?

Americans have become so lazy that they would rather sit by their front door hoping a job will come knocking at it instead of taking the energy and time to do for themselves. They won't take the steps necessary to advance themselves, they won't quit smoking pot so they could pass a drug test, instead. they want to complain that it's the government or Republicans fault that they are not working or working at a less than acceptable wage.

 

[Brain357]

Why?
Be precise

I just heard it reported on CNN... No one is hiring. Read it in my local paper two days ago. It's bad out there for folks that are unemployed or underemployed.

There are all kinds of jobs out there, it's just that you can't get Americans to work them.

Not good paying ones. If there were wages wouldn't be stagnant.

 

[Brain357]

There are all kinds of jobs out there, it's just that you can't get Americans to work them

Well maybe start a thread and post all of those jobs. It may help someone.

No, because the only people that get help are those that want it. If you don't want to work, then the only thing you can do is not vote Republican and hope they don't clip some of these social programs:


ATA: ‘Driver Shortage’ Likely To Reach 48,000 By The End of The Year
OCT 7 • NEWS •

According to the American Trucking Association, the ‘truck driver shortage’ is expected to reach 48,000 by the end of 2015 and as many near retirement, that number is expected to grow.

“The ability to find enough qualified drivers is one of our industry’s biggest challenges,” said ATA President and CEO Bill Graves. “This latest report plainly lays out the problem – as well as some possible solutions – to the driver shortage.”

ATA: ‘Driver Shortage’ Likely To Reach 48,000 By The End of The Year

Yes wages for truck drivers are going down even with a shortage of drivers. The work has questionable safety. And most need to pay for training to become a trucker. Great jobs!

 

[Manonthestreet]

 

[Brain357]

These nut jobs think that you are a communist who wants the state to own and run everything if you do not believe in completely unregulated market capitalism. These people are nuts. You can't reason with them

You are the unreasonable one...Capitalism fed your ass and purchased you video games and I phone and your daddy's pick up ect ect ect and built the greatest nation and the best place to live on the planet. Your kids and grandchildren will not be so fortunate.

I never said I had anything against capitalism, just uncontrolled capitalism. The middle class would never have grown as big as it did without unions. Get a clue already.

That's liberal propaganda. Unions didn't grow the middle class. Capitalism did. The middle class was already in full flower in 1929.

Our middle class is dying with unions. What country has a strong middle class without strong unions?

 

[Indeependent]

You are the unreasonable one...Capitalism fed your ass and purchased you video games and I phone and your daddy's pick up ect ect ect and built the greatest nation and the best place to live on the planet. Your kids and grandchildren will not be so fortunate.

I never said I had anything against capitalism, just uncontrolled capitalism. The middle class would never have grown as big as it did without unions. Get a clue already.

That's liberal propaganda. Unions didn't grow the middle class. Capitalism did. The middle class was already in full flower in 1929.

What unions did was bring non-skilled people into the middle-class. The problem with that is that nothing good lasts forever. People left high school and got monkey jobs that paid well with benefits. They would inspect parts, turn nuts onto bolts, ride around on a floor sweeping machine, pull a lever on a machine when a part was put into place.

That was fine and dandy until those jobs became automated or left the country. Then, people found themselves in their middle ages with a family and no skill or trade to support them with. For many, it was a little too late in life to go to college or learn a trade, so they had no choice but to take lower wage jobs.

Without unions, some of those very same people would have made strides to getting a career. They might have attended college, might have learned a trade, might have started up their own business. But no, they thought those brainless jobs would be there forever because the unions said so.

Unions have done a lot of good for people, but they've also done a lot of bad that few would admit to.

Heaven forbid that a low skilled worker live a middle class existence. By the way, not everybody doing low skilled work has the ability to become educated and work their way up the ladder. Also, many that have some abilities to advance, have families, and would rather spend time with their kids at night instead of in night school, especially after eight hours of work and hours on the freeway to boot. I would think republicans who talk the family values talk, would understand this. Gotta love red china though. They agree with the republicans in this country and don't allow unions any power, which keeps corporate profits high, and wages low. The offshoring and trickle down reagan type tax policies is what has killed the middle class in this country.

The second thing that killed the middle-class were the consumers who refused to pay prices for merchandise that those workers made. It's why Walmart is the number one store in America today.

Nada...Walmart didn't catch on with the Middle Class until the Housing Bubble burst.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

There are all kinds of jobs out there, it's just that you can't get Americans to work them

Well maybe start a thread and post all of those jobs. It may help someone.

No, because the only people that get help are those that want it. If you don't want to work, then the only thing you can do is not vote Republican and hope they don't clip some of these social programs:


ATA: ‘Driver Shortage’ Likely To Reach 48,000 By The End of The Year
OCT 7 • NEWS •

According to the American Trucking Association, the ‘truck driver shortage’ is expected to reach 48,000 by the end of 2015 and as many near retirement, that number is expected to grow.

“The ability to find enough qualified drivers is one of our industry’s biggest challenges,” said ATA President and CEO Bill Graves. “This latest report plainly lays out the problem – as well as some possible solutions – to the driver shortage.”

ATA: ‘Driver Shortage’ Likely To Reach 48,000 By The End of The Year

Yes wages for truck drivers are going down even with a shortage of drivers. The work has questionable safety. And most need to pay for training to become a trucker. Great jobs!

And how many times do we have to go over this?

The jobs pay fine. You may start out a little lower at the beginning, but the industry is begging for employees. They will never get them with your "welfare is better than work" attitude. And given the fact that you know nothing about the industry and I'm in it, I will tell you there are plenty of good paying jobs out there once you get the experience.

As an outstanding member of the Party of Excuses, you come here complaining about what a shelf stocker makes at Walmart, but when somebody clearly shows how opportunity is out there, you make a half-dozen excuses why that shelf stocker shouldn't advance him or herself: "Oh, the job is so dangerous!" "Oh, you might have to pay money to go to school!" "Oh, the job doesn't pay superior wages!"

Is the entire country turning into Bruce Jenner or something? What a bunch of lazy wimps. Get off your behind and get a job already and quit complaining. There is not now and will never be a successful excuse maker in life. They don't exist.

Now let's hear about those Walmart jobs again.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I never said I had anything against capitalism, just uncontrolled capitalism. The middle class would never have grown as big as it did without unions. Get a clue already.

That's liberal propaganda. Unions didn't grow the middle class. Capitalism did. The middle class was already in full flower in 1929.

What unions did was bring non-skilled people into the middle-class. The problem with that is that nothing good lasts forever. People left high school and got monkey jobs that paid well with benefits. They would inspect parts, turn nuts onto bolts, ride around on a floor sweeping machine, pull a lever on a machine when a part was put into place.

That was fine and dandy until those jobs became automated or left the country. Then, people found themselves in their middle ages with a family and no skill or trade to support them with. For many, it was a little too late in life to go to college or learn a trade, so they had no choice but to take lower wage jobs.

Without unions, some of those very same people would have made strides to getting a career. They might have attended college, might have learned a trade, might have started up their own business. But no, they thought those brainless jobs would be there forever because the unions said so.

Unions have done a lot of good for people, but they've also done a lot of bad that few would admit to.

Heaven forbid that a low skilled worker live a middle class existence. By the way, not everybody doing low skilled work has the ability to become educated and work their way up the ladder. Also, many that have some abilities to advance, have families, and would rather spend time with their kids at night instead of in night school, especially after eight hours of work and hours on the freeway to boot. I would think republicans who talk the family values talk, would understand this. Gotta love red china though. They agree with the republicans in this country and don't allow unions any power, which keeps corporate profits high, and wages low. The offshoring and trickle down reagan type tax policies is what has killed the middle class in this country.

The second thing that killed the middle-class were the consumers who refused to pay prices for merchandise that those workers made. It's why Walmart is the number one store in America today.

Nada...Walmart didn't catch on with the Middle Class until the Housing Bubble burst.

Really? You mean they've grown the last two decades before with just poor people? Wow, those people have a lot more money than I thought. Those poor people made Walmart number one.

 

[Brain357]

There are all kinds of jobs out there, it's just that you can't get Americans to work them

Well maybe start a thread and post all of those jobs. It may help someone.

No, because the only people that get help are those that want it. If you don't want to work, then the only thing you can do is not vote Republican and hope they don't clip some of these social programs:


ATA: ‘Driver Shortage’ Likely To Reach 48,000 By The End of The Year
OCT 7 • NEWS •

According to the American Trucking Association, the ‘truck driver shortage’ is expected to reach 48,000 by the end of 2015 and as many near retirement, that number is expected to grow.

“The ability to find enough qualified drivers is one of our industry’s biggest challenges,” said ATA President and CEO Bill Graves. “This latest report plainly lays out the problem – as well as some possible solutions – to the driver shortage.”

ATA: ‘Driver Shortage’ Likely To Reach 48,000 By The End of The Year

Yes wages for truck drivers are going down even with a shortage of drivers. The work has questionable safety. And most need to pay for training to become a trucker. Great jobs!

And how many times do we have to go over this?

The jobs pay fine. You may start out a little lower at the beginning, but the industry is begging for employees. They will never get them with your "welfare is better than work" attitude. And given the fact that you know nothing about the industry and I'm in it, I will tell you there are plenty of good paying jobs out there once you get the experience.

As an outstanding member of the Party of Excuses, you come here complaining about what a shelf stocker makes at Walmart, but when somebody clearly shows how opportunity is out there, you make a half-dozen excuses why that shelf stocker shouldn't advance him or herself: "Oh, the job is so dangerous!" "Oh, you might have to pay money to go to school!" "Oh, the job doesn't pay superior wages!"

Is the entire country turning into Bruce Jenner or something? What a bunch of lazy wimps. Get off your behind and get a job already and quit complaining. There is not now and will never be a successful excuse maker in life. They don't exist.

Now let's hear about those Walmart jobs again.

Until you get it through your head they are not the savior of our economy. If they were begging for employees wages would be going up. Wages for truck drivers are going down. Safety is very questionable. Most people will need to pay for schooling. They aren't good jobs.

 

[Indeependent]

That's liberal propaganda. Unions didn't grow the middle class. Capitalism did. The middle class was already in full flower in 1929.

What unions did was bring non-skilled people into the middle-class. The problem with that is that nothing good lasts forever. People left high school and got monkey jobs that paid well with benefits. They would inspect parts, turn nuts onto bolts, ride around on a floor sweeping machine, pull a lever on a machine when a part was put into place.

That was fine and dandy until those jobs became automated or left the country. Then, people found themselves in their middle ages with a family and no skill or trade to support them with. For many, it was a little too late in life to go to college or learn a trade, so they had no choice but to take lower wage jobs.

Without unions, some of those very same people would have made strides to getting a career. They might have attended college, might have learned a trade, might have started up their own business. But no, they thought those brainless jobs would be there forever because the unions said so.

Unions have done a lot of good for people, but they've also done a lot of bad that few would admit to.

Heaven forbid that a low skilled worker live a middle class existence. By the way, not everybody doing low skilled work has the ability to become educated and work their way up the ladder. Also, many that have some abilities to advance, have families, and would rather spend time with their kids at night instead of in night school, especially after eight hours of work and hours on the freeway to boot. I would think republicans who talk the family values talk, would understand this. Gotta love red china though. They agree with the republicans in this country and don't allow unions any power, which keeps corporate profits high, and wages low. The offshoring and trickle down reagan type tax policies is what has killed the middle class in this country.

The second thing that killed the middle-class were the consumers who refused to pay prices for merchandise that those workers made. It's why Walmart is the number one store in America today.

Nada...Walmart didn't catch on with the Middle Class until the Housing Bubble burst.

Really? You mean they've grown the last two decades before with just poor people? Wow, those people have a lot more money than I thought. Those poor people made Walmart number one.

You have to keep in mind that the last 3 decades have produced a lot of low wage jobs and that's where the low wage owners go.
Here on Long Island, Costco and BJs have only become the rage in the last 10 years or so.
Loads of people still do their shopping at Stop & Shop.
The Costcos in Nassau County are packed all day long, but the spread in pay and benefits may create a different picture in terms of profit.
I remember 10 years ago I would never see a Walmart unless I drove into the sticks.

 

[edthecynic]

We have the lowest number of working adults since 1975...read it and weep...

We have more people working today then ever in our history.

 

[paulitician]

And more Illegals is going to drive wages even lower. We are rapidly becoming a broken-down Welfare/Warfare State. We'll soon be a nation of miserable slaves making their $8-9 an hr. and depending on Government Entitlements to survive. Only the few Elites will thrive.

 

[pinqy]

Link?

U.S. Labor Participation Rate at Lowest Level Since the 1970s

That has nothing to do with hiring.

 

[Brain357]

And more Illegals is going to drive wages even lower. We are rapidly becoming a broken-down Welfare/Warfare State. We'll soon be a nation of miserable slaves making their $8-9 an hr. and depending on Government Entitlements to survive. Only the few Elites will thrive.

That is certainly the road we are on. Between shipping jobs overseas, illegal immigration, and legally bringing in workers we are in bad shape. We need to strengthen the middle class and lower inequality to have a strong economy.

 

[paulitician]

And more Illegals is going to drive wages even lower. We are rapidly becoming a broken-down Welfare/Warfare State. We'll soon be a nation of miserable slaves making their $8-9 an hr. and depending on Government Entitlements to survive. Only the few Elites will thrive.

That is certainly the road we are on. Between shipping jobs overseas, illegal immigration, and legally bringing in workers we are in bad shape. We need to strengthen the middle class and lower inequality to have a strong economy.

Darker times are definitely ahead. Wages have been stagnant or decreasing for years. Meanwhile, the cost of living continues to skyrocket. What does it take to survive in today's America? Well, i can tell you $8-12 an hr. ain't gonna cut it.

Those making those wages will most likely need Government Entitlements to survive. And now, with this President opening the border floodgates, wages are only gonna go down. The Welfare/Warfare State is just about here.

 

[Brain357]

And more Illegals is going to drive wages even lower. We are rapidly becoming a broken-down Welfare/Warfare State. We'll soon be a nation of miserable slaves making their $8-9 an hr. and depending on Government Entitlements to survive. Only the few Elites will thrive.

That is certainly the road we are on. Between shipping jobs overseas, illegal immigration, and legally bringing in workers we are in bad shape. We need to strengthen the middle class and lower inequality to have a strong economy.

Darker times are definitely ahead. Wages have been stagnant or decreasing for years. Meanwhile, the cost of living continues to skyrocket. What does it take to survive in today's America? Well, i can tell you $8-12 an hr. ain't gonna cut it.

Those making those wages will most likely need Government Entitlements to survive. And now, with this President opening the border floodgates, wages are only gonna go down. The Welfare/Warfare State is just about here.

The big corps are happy to use the cheap labor and collect the corporate welfare. I really don't know who will fix this mess. Dems recognize problem with wages but are too pro immigration. Repubs ignore the problem exists cause the rich donors are getting richer.

 

[Mr Natural]

That is certainly the road we are on. Between shipping jobs overseas, illegal immigration, and legally bringing in workers we are in bad shape. We need to strengthen the middle class and lower inequality to have a strong economy.

And how do we do that?

How do we encourage the "job creators" to pay better when they don't have to?

 

[paulitician]

And more Illegals is going to drive wages even lower. We are rapidly becoming a broken-down Welfare/Warfare State. We'll soon be a nation of miserable slaves making their $8-9 an hr. and depending on Government Entitlements to survive. Only the few Elites will thrive.

That is certainly the road we are on. Between shipping jobs overseas, illegal immigration, and legally bringing in workers we are in bad shape. We need to strengthen the middle class and lower inequality to have a strong economy.

Darker times are definitely ahead. Wages have been stagnant or decreasing for years. Meanwhile, the cost of living continues to skyrocket. What does it take to survive in today's America? Well, i can tell you $8-12 an hr. ain't gonna cut it.

Those making those wages will most likely need Government Entitlements to survive. And now, with this President opening the border floodgates, wages are only gonna go down. The Welfare/Warfare State is just about here.

The big corps are happy to use the cheap labor and collect the corporate welfare. I really don't know who will fix this mess. Dems recognize problem with wages but are too pro immigration. Repubs ignore the problem exists cause the rich donors are getting richer.

You nailed it. Big Corps will continue to get their Corporate Welfare, while enjoying their Slave Labor. And Republicans worship the Big Corps, they have no problem paying for their Corporate Welfare. It's only poor struggling Americans they have a problem helping. So they're lost souls at this point. And the Democrats have opened the border floodgates. Wages will only go down now. I can only see darker times ahead. It's very sad.

 

[Brain357]

That is certainly the road we are on. Between shipping jobs overseas, illegal immigration, and legally bringing in workers we are in bad shape. We need to strengthen the middle class and lower inequality to have a strong economy.

And how do we do that?

How do we encourage the "job creators" to pay better when they don't have to?

I think they need an incentive. I'd reform corp taxes. If a corp hires a lot here, pays well, and gives good benefits they can pay zero taxes. If they don't then they pay taxes. Win for everyone. More good paying jobs for the people, no taxes for corps, great boost to the economy, smaller gov for conservatives, great paying jobs for Dems...