5'2", 110lbs. Can you handle him?

[Article 15]

nvm, KK ... I thought you bolded the 110lb part .. I get what you were saying now.

 

[Zoom-boing]

People on drugs sound just like the learning disabled ... too close to call in most situations and with all the cops killed by junkies because they didn't think they were, meh, tasers are the least harmful. Only those with heart problems are at risk of dying from them, and you can't expect a cop to ask for medical history in the field.

A learning disabled kid may very well present as a drug addict . . . but he wasn't. He wasn't armed, he wasn't big and he was learning disabled. Since the kid had no weapon you mean to tell me they couldn't have gotten a pair of cuffs on him without using a taser? If two cops cannot handle a kid this size then maybe they should be on desk duty.

And they knew he was learning disabled, not on drugs, and not armed how, precisely? They tasered him because they had no way of knowing any of the above.

No, they may not have known any of that at the time. Even more reason that they should have taken him down and cuffed him rather than tasering him. Even if the kid hadn't been killed, tasering him in this instance wasn't necessary. Two cops, one 110 lb. kid. Do the math.

 

[Zoom-boing]

Police in Detroit had trouble with 16 year old boy, 5 feet, 2 inches tall, 110 pounds. So they tasered him and it killed him.

The tasers are getting a bit out of hand. If you can't handle a scrawny kid, find a job you are qualified for.

Just my 2 cents.

'No excuse' for learning-disabled teen's Taser death, mother says - CNN.com

I worked with autistic/ retarded people for years and one in particular who weighed about 135 lbs and would toss 3 or four of us around like we were rag dolls.

So until you've handles a "scrawny kid" like that, reserve judgment.

He wasn't 135 lbs, he was 110 lbs. I've handled a 110 lb. autistic kid -- my son. If I can bring him down and keep him there, two trained cops sure the hell could without tasering him.

 

[KittenKoder]

A learning disabled kid may very well present as a drug addict . . . but he wasn't. He wasn't armed, he wasn't big and he was learning disabled. Since the kid had no weapon you mean to tell me they couldn't have gotten a pair of cuffs on him without using a taser? If two cops cannot handle a kid this size then maybe they should be on desk duty.

And they knew he was learning disabled, not on drugs, and not armed how, precisely? They tasered him because they had no way of knowing any of the above.

No, they may not have known any of that at the time. Even more reason that they should have taken him down and cuffed him rather than tasering him. Even if the kid hadn't been killed, tasering him in this instance wasn't necessary. Two cops, one 110 lb. kid. Do the math.

Um ... they did the math, tasering has a much lower chance of severe injury to the target than tackling.

 

[Zoom-boing]

We agre it was accidental then?Debate over.

Of course it was accidental. There was no intent to kill the kid, IMO. My position is that kid didn't have to be tazed in the first place and had they used proper judgment he'd be alive.

Of course, if HE had used proper judgement, he'd be alive.

Once again, he was learning disabled.

 

[Sweet Willy]

Again, there is a MUCH higher chance of serious injury to both when using any other form of subduction.

You understand there is a 100% chance this kid is DEAD? We aren't talking injury, let's talk dead.

But tasers have a much lower chance of killing than tackling someone ... seriously, do you ever think without your head up your ass? He died from a serious injury caused by electricity ... since you are so big on word play. You do realize more people die of a simple bump on the head than from electricity? Of course not, you don't care, you just want to hang the people who risk their lives every day to keep you safe until you need them.

No one had to bump him on the head. There is a chance you get your head bumped. When you deploy a taser it is not a chance of being shocked. It will happen. You are equating the chance of bumping his head and then the chance of that bump being fatal to the absolutely fact he would be tased.
Twisted logic.

 

[KittenKoder]

You understand there is a 100% chance this kid is DEAD? We aren't talking injury, let's talk dead.

But tasers have a much lower chance of killing than tackling someone ... seriously, do you ever think without your head up your ass? He died from a serious injury caused by electricity ... since you are so big on word play. You do realize more people die of a simple bump on the head than from electricity? Of course not, you don't care, you just want to hang the people who risk their lives every day to keep you safe until you need them.

No one had to bump him on the head. There is a chance you get your head bumped. When you deploy a taser it is not a chance of being shocked. It will happen. You are equating the chance of bumping his head and then the chance of that bump being fatal to the absolutely fact he would be tased.
Twisted logic.

Getting shocked though only has a chance of serious injury based on the amount of amperage. You can't apply logic to one without the other. Both have risks, but the risks of tasers is lower, period, and deaths caused by them are far less than any other form of subductin, period. You can't keep whining about the cops doing their jobs, they keep changing their techniques to support such idiotics only to be assaulted again for it. People wanted them to use tasers instead of tackling, so they did, spent millions on it to. Now you want them to go back to tackling? Seriously, you are just wanting to blame them .... until you need them, then you'll whine that they don't do enough.

 

[Sweet Willy]

Probably the most compelling argument to date that the use of Tasers should be banned is the fact that several large police departments -- in Las Vegas, Phoenix and Scottsdale, Ariz. -- have now prohibited testing them on fellow officers during training exercises. This is due to the proliferation of severe injuries and subsequent lawsuits by injured officers.

Just so we don't give this whole "beat up on the cops" excuse any more traction in the argument, let's look at the new trend of COPS suing for being tased. Even police officers are suing police departments for taser injuries. What are we going to do when one gets killed? Not "if", "when".

cops suing for taser training - Google Search

 

[Sweet Willy]

But tasers have a much lower chance of killing than tackling someone ... seriously, do you ever think without your head up your ass? He died from a serious injury caused by electricity ... since you are so big on word play. You do realize more people die of a simple bump on the head than from electricity? Of course not, you don't care, you just want to hang the people who risk their lives every day to keep you safe until you need them.

No one had to bump him on the head. There is a chance you get your head bumped. When you deploy a taser it is not a chance of being shocked. It will happen. You are equating the chance of bumping his head and then the chance of that bump being fatal to the absolutely fact he would be tased.
Twisted logic.

Getting shocked though only has a chance of serious injury based on the amount of amperage. You can't apply logic to one without the other. Both have risks, but the risks of tasers is lower, period, and deaths caused by them are far less than any other form of subductin, period. You can't keep whining about the cops doing their jobs, they keep changing their techniques to support such idiotics only to be assaulted again for it. People wanted them to use tasers instead of tackling, so they did, spent millions on it to. Now you want them to go back to tackling? Seriously, you are just wanting to blame them .... until you need them, then you'll whine that they don't do enough.

So then Kitten, if a tasered victim falls and bumps his head, then dies, what killed him?

 

[Zoom-boing]

Two cops, one 110 lb kid?

Seriously?

But since you asked ...

Any cop should be able to singlehandedly overpower a 110 lb kid, wrap his arms up, put him on the ground and cuff him. But since they had two cops to handle this 110 lbs (did I mention this kid was one hundred and ten pounds?) they could have simply had one cop overpower the kid, wrap his arms up, put the him on the ground and restrain while the other one cuffs.

Not too difficult at all. This is a 110 lbs kid not a 200 lb grown ass man.

I didn't not ask you to speculate on "should be able to" and "not difficult at all'> I asked you to tell me SPECIFICALLY what they were supposed to do in THIS SPECIFIC situation, if not taser him. As usual, I am having to ask you AGAIN, because you refuse to pull your head out of your ass and actually use it to think, rather than merely separating your ears.

Strike one. Try again, and see if you can answer the question again.

I did answer your question:

But since they had two cops to handle this 110 lbs (did I mention this kid was one hundred and ten pounds?) they could have simply had one cop overpower the kid, wrap his arms up, put the him on the ground and restrain while the other one cuffs.

Wrap up arms. Put on ground. One cop restrains. The other cuffs.

I didn't not ask you to speculate on "should be able to" and "not difficult at all'> I asked you to tell me SPECIFICALLY what they were supposed to do in THIS SPECIFIC situation, if not taser him. As usual, I am having to ask you AGAIN, because you refuse to pull your head out of your ass and actually use it to think, rather than merely separating your ears.

Strike one. Try again, and see if you can answer the question again.

I did answer your question:

But since they had two cops to handle this 110 lbs (did I mention this kid was one hundred and ten pounds?) they could have simply had one cop overpower the kid, wrap his arms up, put the him on the ground and restrain while the other one cuffs.

Wrap up arms. Put on ground. One cop restrains. The other cuffs.

Really? Wrap up his arms, huh? He was RUNNING AWAY FROM THEM, you moron. Did you even read the article? How were they supposed to get his arms to wrap them up?

The next time you answer my question, actually answer my question.

From the article: "Police followed Mitchell into an abandoned house about two blocks away. Officers tried to apprehend him once he was inside, but he resisted, Warren Police Commissioner William Dwyer told CNN."

He wasn't running when they tried to apprehend him. They were close enough to taser him, they were close enough to talk to him, try and calm him down and grab him.

Article 15 did answer your question. I've also had to chase my 110# 16 yr. old autistic son in our house. I catch him, I wrap my arms around him, I bring him down and I keep him there, if necessary. I'm 5'2" and 48 years old. If I can do it, two trained cops should be able to do it, don'tcha think??

 

[KittenKoder]

Probably the most compelling argument to date that the use of Tasers should be banned is the fact that several large police departments -- in Las Vegas, Phoenix and Scottsdale, Ariz. -- have now prohibited testing them on fellow officers during training exercises. This is due to the proliferation of severe injuries and subsequent lawsuits by injured officers.

Just so we don't give this whole "beat up on the cops" excuse any more traction in the argument, let's look at the new trend of COPS suing for being tased. Even police officers are suing police departments for taser injuries. What are we going to do when one gets killed? Not "if", "when".

cops suing for taser training - Google Search

*eye roll* Try to get the link right, since the source is just as important as the information, and all the sources brought up by that are conspiracy nutjobs or wingnuts.

 

[del]

Very small, but growing so probably in your acceptable range. Regardless, cops are trained to avoid harming innocent people. If they used a potato cannon to kill him that would be even a smaller statistic.

i think the presumption of innocence from the cops' POV goes away when he flees the car and hides in an abandoned house.

call me crazy

And I think a scared 16 yo boy's first instinct might be to run, call me crazy.

you might be right, but once the kid runs, it's a different scenario as far as the cops are concerned. do you honestly believe the cops wanted to kill him?

 

[KittenKoder]

I didn't not ask you to speculate on "should be able to" and "not difficult at all'> I asked you to tell me SPECIFICALLY what they were supposed to do in THIS SPECIFIC situation, if not taser him. As usual, I am having to ask you AGAIN, because you refuse to pull your head out of your ass and actually use it to think, rather than merely separating your ears.

Strike one. Try again, and see if you can answer the question again.

I did answer your question:



Wrap up arms. Put on ground. One cop restrains. The other cuffs.

I did answer your question:



Wrap up arms. Put on ground. One cop restrains. The other cuffs.

Really? Wrap up his arms, huh? He was RUNNING AWAY FROM THEM, you moron. Did you even read the article? How were they supposed to get his arms to wrap them up?

The next time you answer my question, actually answer my question.

From the article: "Police followed Mitchell into an abandoned house about two blocks away. Officers tried to apprehend him once he was inside, but he resisted, Warren Police Commissioner William Dwyer told CNN."

He wasn't running when they tried to apprehend him. They were close enough to taser him, they were close enough to talk to him, try and calm him down and grab him.

Article 15 did answer your question. I've also had to chase my 110# 16 yr. old autistic son in our house. I catch him, I wrap my arms around him, I bring him down and I keep him there, if necessary. I'm 5'2" and 48 years old. If I can do it, two trained cops should be able to do it, don'tcha think??

50 feet is close enough to taser. So ... when will people stop complaining about how the cops restrain and stop forcing them to continually spend millions to change their technique?

 

[Sweet Willy]

But tasers have a much lower chance of killing than tackling someone ... seriously, do you ever think without your head up your ass? He died from a serious injury caused by electricity ... since you are so big on word play. You do realize more people die of a simple bump on the head than from electricity? Of course not, you don't care, you just want to hang the people who risk their lives every day to keep you safe until you need them.

No one had to bump him on the head. There is a chance you get your head bumped. When you deploy a taser it is not a chance of being shocked. It will happen. You are equating the chance of bumping his head and then the chance of that bump being fatal to the absolutely fact he would be tased.
Twisted logic.

Getting shocked though only has a chance of serious injury based on the amount of amperage. You can't apply logic to one without the other. Both have risks, but the risks of tasers is lower, period, and deaths caused by them are far less than any other form of subductin, period. You can't keep whining about the cops doing their jobs, they keep changing their techniques to support such idiotics only to be assaulted again for it. People wanted them to use tasers instead of tackling, so they did, spent millions on it to. Now you want them to go back to tackling? Seriously, you are just wanting to blame them .... until you need them, then you'll whine that they don't do enough.

Kitten, you can ditch the whole "don't beat up on cops" routine. They are humans. They are not infallable. Cops are criminals too. They traffic drugs, rape and murder. Isn't there a famous cop on trial right now for murdering his wife? i suppose I just hate cops if i demand justice for that?

 

[del]

No one had to bump him on the head. There is a chance you get your head bumped. When you deploy a taser it is not a chance of being shocked. It will happen. You are equating the chance of bumping his head and then the chance of that bump being fatal to the absolutely fact he would be tased.
Twisted logic.

Getting shocked though only has a chance of serious injury based on the amount of amperage. You can't apply logic to one without the other. Both have risks, but the risks of tasers is lower, period, and deaths caused by them are far less than any other form of subductin, period. You can't keep whining about the cops doing their jobs, they keep changing their techniques to support such idiotics only to be assaulted again for it. People wanted them to use tasers instead of tackling, so they did, spent millions on it to. Now you want them to go back to tackling? Seriously, you are just wanting to blame them .... until you need them, then you'll whine that they don't do enough.

Kitten, you can ditch the whole "don't beat up on cops" routine. They are humans. They are not infallable. Cops are criminals too. They traffic drugs, rape and murder. Isn't there a famous cop on trial right now for murdering his wife? i suppose I just hate cops if i demand justice for that?

do you think the cops deliberately killed this kid?

 

[KittenKoder]

No one had to bump him on the head. There is a chance you get your head bumped. When you deploy a taser it is not a chance of being shocked. It will happen. You are equating the chance of bumping his head and then the chance of that bump being fatal to the absolutely fact he would be tased.
Twisted logic.

Getting shocked though only has a chance of serious injury based on the amount of amperage. You can't apply logic to one without the other. Both have risks, but the risks of tasers is lower, period, and deaths caused by them are far less than any other form of subductin, period. You can't keep whining about the cops doing their jobs, they keep changing their techniques to support such idiotics only to be assaulted again for it. People wanted them to use tasers instead of tackling, so they did, spent millions on it to. Now you want them to go back to tackling? Seriously, you are just wanting to blame them .... until you need them, then you'll whine that they don't do enough.

Kitten, you can ditch the whole "don't beat up on cops" routine. They are humans. They are not infallable. Cops are criminals too. They traffic drugs, rape and murder. Isn't there a famous cop on trial right now for murdering his wife? i suppose I just hate cops if i demand justice for that?

Aaaah ... true colors, a conspiracy nut. some cops do commit crime, yes, of course, but there are few, and if the good ones were not attacked so much through stupid lawsuits and stories such as this, perhaps we could actually weed out the truly bad ones a little better, but alas ... all this anti-cop hype just makes being a bad cop look so much better.

 

[Zoom-boing]

I repeat. How do you "wrap up arms" on someone who's running away from you, Einstein?

Uh, they caught up to him to taser him, don't you think they could have caught him to grab him, wrap him, and put on ground and restrain and cuff him?

Uh, I didn't get the impression that they "caught up with him" at all. 'The article said nothing about chasing him, unless I completely missed it. And tasering is still easier and safer than engaging in hand-to-hand contact with him. Have you even stopped to ask yourself why the police department teaches them to do it that way if just tackling him would be better? Or were you just going to redesign the Training Academy's program according to your personal understanding of how it "should" be done, no doubt gleaned from countless hours of watching "Law and Order"?

The kid 'jumped out of the car and started running'. How the hell do you think the cops caught up to him to tase him if they didn't chase him??? Did YOU read the article?? Cripes.

 

[Sweet Willy]

An Oswego County sheriff's deputy who says he suffered permanent injuries after he was shot by a Taser during training has filed suit against Taser International in U.S. District Court in Syracuse.

Jeff Kandt, 38, was permanently disabled after he was shocked by a Taser during training on May 29, 2007, according to papers filed April 30.

The electrical shock caused Kandt to convulse, and the convulsion caused fractures in his back, said S. Robert Williams, Kandt's lawyer.

Oswego County deputy says training-session shock from Taser left him disabled, sues its maker - syracuse.com

James Foley of Grafton has filed the suit in U.S. District Court in Worcester, seeking $1 million and claiming the injury caused by the Taser incident caused him to experience pain and suffering and a diminution in wages and earning capacity.

The Impolitic: Cop sues for taser injury

In the middle of the chain, hands locked at her sides, Peterson had only her face to absorb the impact. She fell hard on her neck and fast into the rabbit hole — traumatic internal disc disruption, steroid injections, surgical reconstruction, temporomandibular derangement, persistent dizziness, cognitive defects, numbness, vertigo.

Officer Peterson sued Taser International Inc.

So did two other Metro cops who were seriously injured after being shocked with Tasers during other training sessions in 2003. In their lawsuits they say Taser failed to adequately warn the police department of the potential for injury and minimized the risks of being shocked, which officers had been assured was not only safe but advisable.

Peterson is still in litigation. The second officer, Chad Cook, settled with the company last year for an undisclosed amount.

Cops raise Taser safety claims - Las Vegas Sun



How many of these do you want? There are more cops suing for taser injuries than civilians.

 

[Zoom-boing]

Most times, that would be the result of a taser to, just a little soreness. But the same risk of injury occurs for the criminal when they are "wrestled", it's just different injuries. Tasers were put into use because people kept complaining about the cops using "excessive force" ... now those same people are whining about tasers ...

Two trained cops would only need to use a reasonable amount of 'force' to get a 5'2", 110 lb. kid down. I'm 5'2", as is my son. He's strong but I can bring him down and keep him there, if needed. And I've got zero training. Bullshit on the taser in this situation. They could have cuffed the kid without using it.

You would have also hurt him anyway, and there is a higher chance of injury no matter how you spin it.

So what? The taser was not necessary in this instance. If two cops couldn't bring this kid down they need more training.

 

[KittenKoder]

SW: A small number compared to the total still ... no matter how you spin it, you lost.