6 Proofs That God Exists

[ding]

Everything else is contained within the game. It could be real or it may not be

You do realize that the Matrix was based on an ultimate reality, right? That outside of the matrix was a true reality. And since I do believe that God is existence and we share in His existence, His existence is the ultimate reality. But that in no way negates the reality of our current existence as we share in His in a different way.

The thing about the Matrix is they found a way to actually see and experience that other reality. We don't have that in a factual way. We have ideas that have been corrupted through religion that we use to try and explain God and teach the masses how to behave but I see that as man made. Like those in the matrix that have not yet taken the pill, the people suspect there is more to life but don't have the ability to really know what's real and what isn't. Do you think the things happening in the Matrix are absolute reality or subjective perceptions of reality?

I wouldn't waste my time thinking about an alternate reality to be honest. Nothing good can come from stealing time from the present. It's better for me to enjoy the right things, the right way for the right reasons. Life's a journey and I have already won the cosmic lottery.

According to the story being in the Matrix was the alternate reality. Being used for power generation was the reality. Being subjective involves bias. I'm not sure if bias played a part in the Matrix or at least not a big part anyway. So not sure how to answer your question about subjective perceptions of reality. Man's problem isn't that he is living in an alternate reality, man's problem is rationalizing wrong as right.

What it Gods realty is the Real Reality? An eternal reality based in infinity which we humans in this time can not yet understand. And what if our reality is a fragment of the real? A finite linear perception.

I agree, no point in wasting too much time pondering this as the more important is the here and now... I just like dropping food for thought.

I don't waste time thinking about the destination. Giving thanks and praise to God is a different story. That has practical benefits beyond imagine.

My perception of God is that God is infinite logic, infinite truth, infinite intelligence, infinite wisdom, infinite knowledge, infinite love, infinite patience, infinite justice, infinite mercy, infinite kindness and infinite goodness. I am not saying God has those attributes. I am saying God is those attributes. Such that mind has always existed: that this is a life‑breeding universe because the constant presence of mind made it so and imbued his creation with His attributes.

 

[edthecynic]

It's that whole quantum mechanics thingee.

That you understand less than the SLoT, which you know NOTHING about.

 

[frigidweirdo]

The problem is that if it were something universal, then Christianity would be universal. It's not.

There isn't even a universal consensus that the earth isn't flat, or that there was a moon landing. There are many faiths. Some of them even teach some of the same truths.

Not sure why you brought flat earthism into this. Are you trying to prove that religions are make belief?

 

[frigidweirdo]

You're saying people have experienced, but then people WANT TO BELIEVE they've experienced.

Or have no choice but to believe. Isn't it more that you want to believe no one has experienced something that you haven't? Just because I haven't experienced zero gravity doesn't mean no one has.

But zero gravity exists.
The question here is, I guess, do you trust what every person says?

 

[edthecynic]

I am the Bread of Life (John 6:35)
I am the Light of the World (John 8:12)
I am the Door (John 10:9)
I am the Good Shepherd (John 10:11,14)
I am the Resurrection and the Life (John 11:25)
I am the Way and the Truth and the Life (John 14:6)
I am the Vine (John 15:1,5)

I am the offspring of Lucifer. (Rev 22:16)

Rev 22: 16 I, Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

KJV - Lucifer 1; 1
Lucifer = "light-bearer"
1) shining one, morning star, Lucifer

The Apocalypse, or Revelation to John, the last book of the Bible, is one of the most difficult to understand because it abounds in unfamiliar and extravagant symbolism, which at best appears unusual to the modern reader. Symbolic language, however, is one of the chief characteristics of apocalyptic literature, of which this book is an outstanding example. Such literature enjoyed wide popularity in both Jewish and Christian circles from ca. 200 B.C. to A.D. 200.

This book contains an account of visions in symbolic and allegorical language borrowed extensively from the Old Testament, especially Ezekiel, Zechariah, and Daniel. Whether or not these visions were real experiences of the author or simply literary conventions employed by him is an open question.

This much, however, is certain: symbolic descriptions are not to be taken as literal descriptions, nor is the symbolism meant to be pictured realistically. One would find it difficult and repulsive to visualize a lamb with seven horns and seven eyes; yet Jesus Christ is described in precisely such words (Rev 5:6). The author used these images to suggest Christ’s universal (seven) power (horns) and knowledge (eyes). A significant feature of apocalyptic writing is the use of symbolic colors, metals, garments (Rev 1:13–16; 3:18; 4:4; 6:1–8; 17:4; 19:8), and numbers (four signifies the world, six imperfection, seven totality or perfection, twelve Israel’s tribes or the apostles, one thousand immensity). Finally the vindictive language in the book (Rev 6:9–10; 18:1–19:4) is also to be understood symbolically and not literally. The cries for vengeance on the lips of Christian martyrs that sound so harsh are in fact literary devices the author employed to evoke in the reader and hearer a feeling of horror for apostasy and rebellion that will be severely punished by God.

The lurid descriptions of the punishment of Jezebel (Rev 2:22) and of the destruction of the great harlot, Babylon (Rev 16:9–19:2), are likewise literary devices. The metaphor of Babylon as harlot would be wrongly construed if interpreted literally. On the other hand, the stylized figure of the woman clothed with the sun (Rev 12:1–6), depicting the New Israel, may seem to be a negative stereotype. It is necessary to look beyond the literal meaning to see that these images mean to convey a sense of God’s wrath at sin in the former case and trust in God’s providential care over the church in the latter.

The Book of Revelation cannot be adequately understood except against the historical background that occasioned its writing. Like Daniel and other apocalypses, it was composed as resistance literature to meet a crisis. The book itself suggests that the crisis was ruthless persecution of the early church by the Roman authorities; the harlot Babylon symbolizes pagan Rome, the city on seven hills (Rev 17:9). The book is, then, an exhortation and admonition to Christians of the first century to stand firm in the faith and to avoid compromise with paganism, despite the threat of adversity and martyrdom; they are to await patiently the fulfillment of God’s mighty promises. The triumph of God in the world of men and women remains a mystery, to be accepted in faith and longed for in hope. It is a triumph that unfolded in the history of Jesus of Nazareth and continues to unfold in the history of the individual Christian who follows the way of the cross, even, if necessary, to a martyr’s death.

Though the perspective is eschatological—ultimate salvation and victory are said to take place at the end of the present age when Christ will come in glory at the parousia—the book presents the decisive struggle of Christ and his followers against Satan and his cohorts as already over. Christ’s overwhelming defeat of the kingdom of Satan ushered in the everlasting reign of God (Rev 11:15; 12:10). Even the forces of evil unwittingly carry out the divine plan (Rev 17:17), for God is the sovereign Lord of history.

The Book of Revelation had its origin in a time of crisis, but it remains valid and meaningful for Christians of all time. In the face of apparently insuperable evil, either from within or from without, all Christians are called to trust in Jesus’ promise, “Behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age” (Mt 28:20). Those who remain steadfast in their faith and confidence in the risen Lord need have no fear. Suffering, persecution, even death by martyrdom, though remaining impenetrable mysteries of evil, do not comprise an absurd dead end. No matter what adversity or sacrifice Christians may endure, they will in the end triumph over Satan and his forces because of their fidelity to Christ the victor. This is the enduring message of the book; it is a message of hope and consolation and challenge for all who dare to believe.

The author of the book calls himself John (Rev 1:1, 4, 9; 22:8), who because of his Christian faith has been exiled to the rocky island of Patmos, a Roman penal colony. Although he never claims to be John the apostle, whose name is attached to the fourth gospel, he was so identified by several of the early church Fathers, including Justin, Irenaeus, Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, Cyprian, and Hippolytus. This identification, however, was denied by other Fathers, including Denis of Alexandria, Eusebius of Caesarea, Cyril of Jerusalem, Gregory Nazianzen, and John Chrysostom. Indeed, vocabulary, grammar, and style make it doubtful that the book could have been put into its present form by the same person(s) responsible for the fourth gospel. Nevertheless, there are definite linguistic and theological affinities between the two books. The tone of the letters to the seven churches (Rev 1:4–3:22) is indicative of the great authority the author enjoyed over the Christian communities in Asia. It is possible, therefore, that he was a disciple of John the apostle, who is traditionally associated with that part of the world. The date of the book in its present form is probably near the end of the reign of Domitian (A.D. 81–96), a fierce persecutor of the Christians.

So, after all that BULLSHIT, you never addressed the "symbolism" of the house of David and Lucifer.

I did. You just didn't understand it.

Please highlight the part that specifically refers to the symbolism of the house of David for starters, you LIAR.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I mean, come on, seeing faces in clouds.... yeah, right.

I've seen a giraffe in the clouds. Does that mean giraffes don't exist?

The problem with your argument here is that giraffes have been seen.

You're saying that what I'm saying doesn't disprove. And you're right, but then you need something else to prove. But you don't have that.

So we got lots of "doesn't exist" and no "does exist". Doesn't look good, does it?

 

[Meriweather]

The question here is, I guess, do you trust what every person says?

I verify.

 

[Slade3200]

Everything else is contained within the game. It could be real or it may not be

You do realize that the Matrix was based on an ultimate reality, right? That outside of the matrix was a true reality. And since I do believe that God is existence and we share in His existence, His existence is the ultimate reality. But that in no way negates the reality of our current existence as we share in His in a different way.

The thing about the Matrix is they found a way to actually see and experience that other reality. We don't have that in a factual way. We have ideas that have been corrupted through religion that we use to try and explain God and teach the masses how to behave but I see that as man made. Like those in the matrix that have not yet taken the pill, the people suspect there is more to life but don't have the ability to really know what's real and what isn't. Do you think the things happening in the Matrix are absolute reality or subjective perceptions of reality?

I wouldn't waste my time thinking about an alternate reality to be honest. Nothing good can come from stealing time from the present. It's better for me to enjoy the right things, the right way for the right reasons. Life's a journey and I have already won the cosmic lottery.

According to the story being in the Matrix was the alternate reality. Being used for power generation was the reality. Being subjective involves bias. I'm not sure if bias played a part in the Matrix or at least not a big part anyway. So not sure how to answer your question about subjective perceptions of reality. Man's problem isn't that he is living in an alternate reality, man's problem is rationalizing wrong as right.

What it Gods realty is the Real Reality? An eternal reality based in infinity which we humans in this time can not yet understand. And what if our reality is a fragment of the real? A finite linear perception.

I agree, no point in wasting too much time pondering this as the more important is the here and now... I just like dropping food for thought.

I don't waste time thinking about the destination. Giving thanks and praise to God is a different story. That has practical benefits beyond imagine.

My perception of God is that God is infinite logic, infinite truth, infinite intelligence, infinite wisdom, infinite knowledge, infinite love, infinite patience, infinite justice, infinite mercy, infinite kindness and infinite goodness. I am not saying God has those attributes. I am saying God is those attributes. Such that mind has always existed: that this is a life‑breeding universe because the constant presence of mind made it so and imbued his creation with His attributes.

Would that also mean that God is infinite pain, and infinite evil and infinite sadness?

Then it begs the question of whether good and evil actually exist in a significant way.

 

[Meriweather]

And you're right, but then you need something else to prove. But you don't have that.

I have had that. I think most could, they just don't have the time or the inclination. For example, I don't have the time or the inclination to become a gold medal Olympic gymnast. I had the inclination, so I made the time to verify God. You could, too, but I have the feeling I'll become an Olympic gymnast before you take the time to verify God to your own satisfaction.

 

[frigidweirdo]

What would happen if they accepted that religion was really not real? They'd have to accept that everyone they loved and trusted had either been con artists or delusional idiots. Easier to just keep up the facade, isn't it?

Many are willing to accept the experiences and discoveries of others. For example, I have never needed to experience Antarctica, Mount Everest, or a black hole to accept their reality. It is not so unusual for some of us who choose to explore religion and make our own discoveries, verify for ourselves. "Seek and you will find" is a reality. However, one has to put as much heart, soul, and time into as anyone who seeks to train to explore Antarctica, climb Everest, or learn about black holes.

I could go out to my back yard, look around and conclude, "No Antarctica, Everest, or Black Hole here" and let it go at that. Many people take the same attitude towards religion/God. They look around and conclude, "No God here." I think that may be what you have done. If it is not within your immediate grasp, it must not exist.

Then again I could make up lots of things, couldn't I? Because I've never been to Antarctica, but I know it exists, could mean that I could say that Flubby Wubby exists, he's some dude that floats around the sky making people fat by throwing Flubbies at people.

Or.... get this... what I could do is accept those things where there's enough evidence that these things exist. Antarctica has enough evidence out there to tell me that it does exist. I mean, I've seen penguins in the wild, and I've seen photos of penguins in Antarctica, so..... what I've seen and the evidence around me seem to match up.

But there's NOTHING pointing out that there's a God, is there?

The only stuff that people point to is the universe, but then I can come up with a hundred other reasons why the universe exists that don't involve a God.

So why would I take the view that it must have been a God that created it all?

 

[frigidweirdo]

And you're right, but then you need something else to prove. But you don't have that.

I have had that. I think most could, they just don't have the time or the inclination. For example, I don't have the time or the inclination to become a gold medal Olympic gymnast. I had the inclination, so I made the time to verify God. You could, too, but I have the feeling I'll become an Olympic gymnast before you take the time to verify God to your own satisfaction.

And how do you "verify God"?

 

[ding]

Everything else is contained within the game. It could be real or it may not be

You do realize that the Matrix was based on an ultimate reality, right? That outside of the matrix was a true reality. And since I do believe that God is existence and we share in His existence, His existence is the ultimate reality. But that in no way negates the reality of our current existence as we share in His in a different way.

The thing about the Matrix is they found a way to actually see and experience that other reality. We don't have that in a factual way. We have ideas that have been corrupted through religion that we use to try and explain God and teach the masses how to behave but I see that as man made. Like those in the matrix that have not yet taken the pill, the people suspect there is more to life but don't have the ability to really know what's real and what isn't. Do you think the things happening in the Matrix are absolute reality or subjective perceptions of reality?

I wouldn't waste my time thinking about an alternate reality to be honest. Nothing good can come from stealing time from the present. It's better for me to enjoy the right things, the right way for the right reasons. Life's a journey and I have already won the cosmic lottery.

According to the story being in the Matrix was the alternate reality. Being used for power generation was the reality. Being subjective involves bias. I'm not sure if bias played a part in the Matrix or at least not a big part anyway. So not sure how to answer your question about subjective perceptions of reality. Man's problem isn't that he is living in an alternate reality, man's problem is rationalizing wrong as right.

What it Gods realty is the Real Reality? An eternal reality based in infinity which we humans in this time can not yet understand. And what if our reality is a fragment of the real? A finite linear perception.

I agree, no point in wasting too much time pondering this as the more important is the here and now... I just like dropping food for thought.

I don't waste time thinking about the destination. Giving thanks and praise to God is a different story. That has practical benefits beyond imagine.

My perception of God is that God is infinite logic, infinite truth, infinite intelligence, infinite wisdom, infinite knowledge, infinite love, infinite patience, infinite justice, infinite mercy, infinite kindness and infinite goodness. I am not saying God has those attributes. I am saying God is those attributes. Such that mind has always existed: that this is a life‑breeding universe because the constant presence of mind made it so and imbued his creation with His attributes.

Would that also mean that God is infinite pain, and infinite evil and infinite sadness?

Then it begs the question of whether good and evil actually exist in a significant way.

Ahhh.... now we get into it.

Those are all negations. For example, cold is the absence of heat, darkness is the absence of light, and evil is the absence of good.

But the direction you are heading is into the inscrutable ways of God. Here is what Maimonides said on the subject...

[MEN frequently think that the evils in the world are more numerous than the good things, that just isn't the case. It must be admitted as a fact that it cannot be said of God that He directly creates evil, or He has the direct intention to produce evil; this is impossible His works are all perfectly good. He only produces existence, and all existence is good. God is perfect goodness, and that all that comes from Him is absolutely good. Consequently the true work of God is all good, since it is existence. ALL the great evils which men cause to each other because of certain intentions, desires, opinions, or religious principles, are likewise due to non-existence, because they originate in ignorance, which is absence of wisdom. The numerous evils to which individual persons are exposed are due to the defects existing in the persons themselves. We suffer from the evils which we, by our own free will, inflict on ourselves and ascribe them to God, who is far from being connected with them. Man himself is the author of this class of evils.]​

 

[Meriweather]

So why would I take the view that it must have been a God that created it all?

No reason to. I believe in God; I believe He is a creator. I have no idea if it was He who created the entire universe. Others attribute to creation to God and I have no reason not to believe that intelligence (i.e.God) isn't somehow behind it. To me, intelligence behind the creation of the universe simply makes better sense than it all somehow fell into place. I could be wrong. But I am not wrong in stating God Is, or that God loves and cares for all of us. I cannot state with that same assurance that the entire universe is God's creation, just that I think it might very well be.

 

[frigidweirdo]

So why would I take the view that it must have been a God that created it all?

No reason to. I believe in God; I believe He is a creator. I have no idea if it was He who created the entire universe. Others attribute to creation to God and I have no reason not to believe that intelligence (i.e.God) isn't somehow behind it. To me, intelligence behind the creation of the universe simply makes better sense than it all somehow fell into place. I could be wrong. But I am not wrong in stating God Is, or that God loves and cares for all of us. I cannot state with that same assurance that the entire universe is God's creation, just that I think it might very well be.

You believe. Believing is accepting without knowing.

That's kind of silly

 

[Meriweather]

And how do you "verify God"?

To a great extent, that's up to each individual. There are parameters that one must work with in. For example, Do not test the Lord God. Expecting God to take a test or to prove something is going to fail every time. Jesus gave two recommendations. Seek and find; the pure of heart will see God. In other words, the reason for seeking and finding must be pure--no underlying motives.

 

[Slade3200]

Everything else is contained within the game. It could be real or it may not be

You do realize that the Matrix was based on an ultimate reality, right? That outside of the matrix was a true reality. And since I do believe that God is existence and we share in His existence, His existence is the ultimate reality. But that in no way negates the reality of our current existence as we share in His in a different way.

The thing about the Matrix is they found a way to actually see and experience that other reality. We don't have that in a factual way. We have ideas that have been corrupted through religion that we use to try and explain God and teach the masses how to behave but I see that as man made. Like those in the matrix that have not yet taken the pill, the people suspect there is more to life but don't have the ability to really know what's real and what isn't. Do you think the things happening in the Matrix are absolute reality or subjective perceptions of reality?

I wouldn't waste my time thinking about an alternate reality to be honest. Nothing good can come from stealing time from the present. It's better for me to enjoy the right things, the right way for the right reasons. Life's a journey and I have already won the cosmic lottery.

According to the story being in the Matrix was the alternate reality. Being used for power generation was the reality. Being subjective involves bias. I'm not sure if bias played a part in the Matrix or at least not a big part anyway. So not sure how to answer your question about subjective perceptions of reality. Man's problem isn't that he is living in an alternate reality, man's problem is rationalizing wrong as right.

What it Gods realty is the Real Reality? An eternal reality based in infinity which we humans in this time can not yet understand. And what if our reality is a fragment of the real? A finite linear perception.

I agree, no point in wasting too much time pondering this as the more important is the here and now... I just like dropping food for thought.

I don't waste time thinking about the destination. Giving thanks and praise to God is a different story. That has practical benefits beyond imagine.

My perception of God is that God is infinite logic, infinite truth, infinite intelligence, infinite wisdom, infinite knowledge, infinite love, infinite patience, infinite justice, infinite mercy, infinite kindness and infinite goodness. I am not saying God has those attributes. I am saying God is those attributes. Such that mind has always existed: that this is a life‑breeding universe because the constant presence of mind made it so and imbued his creation with His attributes.

Would that also mean that God is infinite pain, and infinite evil and infinite sadness?

Then it begs the question of whether good and evil actually exist in a significant way.

Ahhh.... now we get into it.

Those are all negations. For example, cold is the absence of heat, darkness is the absence of light, and evil is the absence of good.

But the direction you are heading is into the inscrutable ways of God. Here is what Maimonides said on the subject...

[MEN frequently think that the evils in the world are more numerous than the good things, that just isn't the case. It must be admitted as a fact that it cannot be said of God that He directly creates evil, or He has the direct intention to produce evil; this is impossible His works are all perfectly good. He only produces existence, and all existence is good. God is perfect goodness, and that all that comes from Him is absolutely good. Consequently the true work of God is all good, since it is existence. ALL the great evils which men cause to each other because of certain intentions, desires, opinions, or religious principles, are likewise due to non-existence, because they originate in ignorance, which is absence of wisdom. The numerous evils to which individual persons are exposed are due to the defects existing in the persons themselves. We suffer from the evils which we, by our own free will, inflict on ourselves and ascribe them to God, who is far from being connected with them. Man himself is the author of this class of evils.]​

Passages like that lose me. Where do y'all get that God is absolute goodness from? I mean it sounds nice but sounds like a bias subjective reality and not an objective one.

I see Happiness and unhappiness as the same thing. Each state being felt as a comparison of the other. I don't think one can feel true happiness without also have felt true despair. I understand the religious explanation of God being the positive and all negative being the absence of but that explanation sounds more convenient than anything. If God is existence and infinite then that means he is everything... good and bad. That should be the logical objective way of viewing it, right?

 

[frigidweirdo]

And how do you "verify God"?

To a great extent, that's up to each individual. There are parameters that one must work with in. For example, Do not test the Lord God. Expecting God to take a test or to prove something is going to fail every time. Jesus gave two recommendations. Seek and find; the pure of heart will see God. In other words, the reason for seeking and finding must be pure--no underlying motives.

So, God is basically a figment of the imagination? Not real at all?

And the "Do not test the lord".... wow, that's the biggest get out clause of all.

"He's real, but don't try and find if he's real" er.... because he's not.....

 

[Meriweather]

You believe. Believing is accepting without knowing.

Jesus said, "Blessed are they who believe without seeing." He wasn't kidding. The thing is, I know. However, you probably won't believe that I do know. I am not stuck with belief, but you are. Ironic, isn't it? Knowing what I know now, I can argue belief without knowing is preferable, and agree it is blessed.

 

[Meriweather]

And the "Do not test the lord".... wow, that's the biggest get out clause of all.

In my opinion it may well be the number one reason why people who seek do not find.

 

[Meriweather]

"He's real, but don't try and find if he's real" er.... because he's not.....

Actually, He goes beyond our perception of "real". We only think we know reality. Or maybe it is better phrased as we have only a small grasp of reality.