74 school shootings in 77 weeks...Worth it's own thread.

[kwc57]

A combination of the laws I suggested would help reduce all gun related murders

AGAIN, I ASK

What law would have stopped the incident in Troutdale?

Be specific in your answer

No one single law is a magic fix. Only simple minded people think so simplistically.

And there boys and girls is a textbook example of why we have laws that take reams of paper to print and so convoluted that they have to be "passed in order to find out what is in them".

 

[RDD_1210]

"Guns kept in homes are more likely to be involved in a fatal or nonfatal accidental shooting, criminal assault, or suicide attempt than to be used to injure or kill in self-defense."

Injuries and deaths due to firearms in the home. [J Trauma. 1998] - PubMed - NCBI

There are always accidents and suicides don't count.

We cannot use accidents or suicides as a measure of the effectiveness of firearms for self defense.

To me a firearm in my home is an acceptable risk. That is MY decision to make and not yours.

Right you're perfectly ok with kids being shot and murdered on a regular basis. Glad you've clarified that for us. And I'm glad you acknowledge that your precious toys aren't keeping anyone safer.

 

[depotoo]

An article to back up my previous assertions -
More interesting facts at the link
Gun Clubs at School | National Review Online
Once upon a time, it was common for an American child to be packed off to school with a rifle on his back and for him to come home smiling and safe in the evening. Shooting clubs, now quietly withering away, were once such a mainstay of American high-school life that in the first half of the 20th century they were regularly installed in the basements of new educational buildings. Now, they are in their death throes, victims of political correctness, a willful misunderstanding of what constitutes “gun safety,” and our deplorable tendency toward litigiousness.AdvertisementIn 1975, New York state had over 80 school districts with rifle teams. In 1984, that had*dropped*to 65. By 1999 there were just 26. The state’s annual riflery championship was*shut down*in 1986 for lack of demand. This, sadly, is a familiar*story*across the country. The clubs are fading from memory, too. AChicago Tribune*report*from 2007 notes the astonishment of a Wisconsin mother who discovered that her children’s school had a range on site. “I was surprised, because I never would have suspected to have something like that in my child’s school,” she told the*Tribune. The district’s superintendent admitted that it was now a rarity, confessing that he “often gets raised eyebrows” if he mentions the range to other educators. The astonished mother raised her eyebrows — and then led a fight to have the range closed. “Guns and school don’t mix,” she averred. “If you have guns in school, that does away with the whole zero-tolerance policy.”But how wise is that “zero-tolerance policy”? Until 1989, there were only a few school shootings in which more than two victims were killed. This was despite widespread ownership of — and familiarity with — weapons and an absence of “gun-free zones.” As George Mason University economist Walter E. Williams has observed, for most of American history “private transfers of guns to juveniles were unrestricted. Often a youngster’s 12th or 14th birthday present was a shiny new .22-caliber rifle, given to him by his father.” This was a right of passage, conventional and uncontroversial across the country. “Gee, Dad*.*.*.*A Winchester!” read one particularly famous ad. “In Virginia,” Williams writes, “rural areas had a long tradition of high-school students going hunting in the morning before school, and sometimes storing their guns in the trunk of their cars during the school day, parked on the school grounds.” Many of these guns they could buy at almost any hardware store or gas station — or even by mail order. The 1968 Gun Control Act, supported happily by major gun manufacturers who wished to push out their competition, put a stop to this.Catalogs and magazines from th

 

[rightwinger]

I wonder how many of those homicides were in self defense? Does the study quantify that?

I'm sure they all were

 

[RDD_1210]

Hey fucktard, there is a methodology to amending the Constitution. Use it or shut the fuck up. You don't like those big bad boom sticks. They skeer you. We get it. I'm fine with the fact that you want to "use your words" when something bad comes your way. I applaud your willingness to cleanse the gene pool for the rest of us. BTW, did you know that statistically, if you eat food, there is an increased risk you could get fat?

Wahhhh your guns aren't keeping you safe. It's as if your manhood has been questioned.

Nancy boy, I'm not the one pissing my panties over those scary evil boom sticks. Spit the balls out of your mouth and hang them between your legs. A gun will keep you far safer than kneeling on the floor in a pool of your own piss, crying and begging for someone not to kill you. But if you think that will work, go for it. Like I already mentioned, if you don't like our constitutional rights, there is a methodology for changing them.

Let's face it. If an intruder came in to your home. Odds are you'll be passed out and if you should be lucky enough to hear the intruder over the sound of your snoring and cpap machine you'd still have to scramble over to your jazzy and load that dick extension you call a gun. By then the intruder is long gone or you're dead.

You'll still be a pathetic old man and I along with the rest of society will still be laughing at you.

 

[martybegan]

How many fucking times do you need to be told no one is suggesting a gun ban.

And don't bother pointing to an isolated example as some sort of proof. I can easily point to a right wing nut job and say "look, all gun owners want to go on murdering sprees".

But it would be the only gun control thing to prevent the tragedies you guys keep referencing. Everything you propose just makes it harder for law abiding citizens to get firearms, and does nothing to prevent a determined mass murderer from getting theirs.

Reality disagrees with you. Join us when you can.

As usual you have no real answer. Go to DU and agree with the other mental midgets. Here you actually may have to provide a point.

 

[RDD_1210]

AGAIN, I ASK

What law would have stopped the incident in Troutdale?

Be specific in your answer

No one single law is a magic fix. Only simple minded people think so simplistically.

My bad....I should have known you would have parsed the word.
What laws would have stopped the incident in Troutdale?

I've listed my thoughts multiple times.

 

[martybegan]

Its not that we refuse to ban gun ownership, but we refuse to do a fucking thing about massacred six year olds

After all, we can't stop all murders so we should not try to stop any

So basically you want to stop evil from happening in the world. Good luck with that.

So one of your points is an appeal to emotion, and the 2nd is argumentum ad absurdum.

So basically they really are not points at all.

I'd like to stop some of it

The rest of the world does a much better job than we do

Oh, hai there!!!

 

[RDD_1210]

I wonder how many of those homicides were in self defense? Does the study quantify that?

You know how I know you are too lazy to click the link.....

 

[Meister]

No one single law is a magic fix. Only simple minded people think so simplistically.

My bad....I should have known you would have parsed the word.
What laws would have stopped the incident in Troutdale?

I've listed my thoughts multiple times.

You have and I have asked you.....with your law(s) how would they have prevented what happened in Troutdale and the other school shootings?

And, you never have or can't answer the question.
Over and over I've asked and you have ignored the question.

 

[rightwinger]

So basically you want to stop evil from happening in the world. Good luck with that.

So one of your points is an appeal to emotion, and the 2nd is argumentum ad absurdum.

So basically they really are not points at all.

I'd like to stop some of it

The rest of the world does a much better job than we do

Oh, hai there!!!

Can we compare the murder rate in Norway to that of the US? They have a murder rate less than half of our own. I would be willing to accept Norways mass murders of once in forever to our once every week

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

Is your position that since we can't stop all murders, we should not try to stop any?

 

[RDD_1210]

But it would be the only gun control thing to prevent the tragedies you guys keep referencing. Everything you propose just makes it harder for law abiding citizens to get firearms, and does nothing to prevent a determined mass murderer from getting theirs.

Reality disagrees with you. Join us when you can.

As usual you have no real answer. Go to DU and agree with the other mental midgets. Here you actually may have to provide a point.

I provided multiple studies with links. You have your baseless and worthless opinion. You lose old man.

 

[Meister]

I wonder how many of those homicides were in self defense? Does the study quantify that?

You know how I know you are too lazy to click the link.....

I've looked and haven't seen the number I was looking for.

 

[depotoo]

I wonder how many of those homicides were in self defense? Does the study quantify that?

You know how I know you are too lazy to click the link.....

Were you too lazy to click my link?

Just maybe, with shooting teams in schools, there was more awareness to the general school population as to the reality of what guns can do, and the safety needed when handling, vs. today when kids see the fantasy of guns through video games and movies.

 

[Meister]

I'd like to stop some of it

The rest of the world does a much better job than we do

Oh, hai there!!!


]

Can we compare the murder rate in Norway to that of the US?

Is your position that since we can't stop all murders, we should not try to stop any?

So are you saying we have no laws regarding gun ownership? Is that what you're saying?

 

[KGB]

Its not that we refuse to ban gun ownership, but we refuse to do a fucking thing about massacred six year olds

After all, we can't stop all murders so we should not try to stop any

So then tell me how aside from mandatory psych evals for every member of a household where one person owns a weapon and/ or the seizure of private medical and personal records in violation of the 4th amendment do you propose to do to prevent violence?

You must have an idea that will be deemed constitutional right?

People on certain anti-psychotic medicines are prohibited from driving. Yet they are entitled to buy guns

If someone is undergoing certain psychological treatments or taking certain pychological medications they should be prohibited from buying or owning guns

More importantly, we need gun owners to stop being such stupid fucking assholes. If your kid scares you....do not buy him a Bushmaster for his birthday. Do not keep guns in your home. Same goes for someone suffering depression

the first two are somewhat reasonable provided there is due process. these are rights we are talking about here, not just privileges like driving.

Depression is not viable cause. Everyone goes through it at some point & not all depressions are equal. The cases where people go off the path is tied up in your first two points.

 

[martybegan]

I'd like to stop some of it

The rest of the world does a much better job than we do

Oh, hai there!!!

Can we compare the murder rate in Norway to that of the US?

Is your position that since we can't stop all murders, we should not try to stop any?

If you want to talk murder RATE, you have to discuss illegal handgun use in inner cities, where most of our murders take place.

What you people keep harping on is spree killings, which while tragic and big news items is not a major component of the murder rate in general.

You keep pointing to "other countries" where this isn't an occurrence according to you, yet they do happen.

In effect, what happens is every time there is a big shooting, you try the same tired approach, which is to make it harder for ME to get a firearm.

 

[KGB]

We have already restricted assault weapons, large capacity magazines, got background checks all within the scope of the second amendment

what you are advocating is total disarmament....

In the wake of the 1996 shootings, support for further gun control measures swelled to 90%-95% of the population. Spearheaded by Australia's conservatives — yes, really — the laws banned rapid-firing long guns and launched an extensive gun buyback program that removed over 650,000 guns from the public. It also tightened laws and regulations surrounding their sale, registration, and storage. The whole package cost about $500 per gun and was compulsory.

As a result, some estimates say 20% of Australia's total guns were eliminated and ownership by household halved. In the U.S., a similar law would get rid of 40 million firearms.

which is akin to disarmament without probable cause. You see we have this concept in this country that you are innocent until proven guilty. What Australia did was assume their people were guilty straight up & then punished them without due process.

 

[Meister]

what you are advocating is total disarmament....

In the wake of the 1996 shootings, support for further gun control measures swelled to 90%-95% of the population. Spearheaded by Australia's conservatives — yes, really — the laws banned rapid-firing long guns and launched an extensive gun buyback program that removed over 650,000 guns from the public. It also tightened laws and regulations surrounding their sale, registration, and storage. The whole package cost about $500 per gun and was compulsory.

As a result, some estimates say 20% of Australia's total guns were eliminated and ownership by household halved. In the U.S., a similar law would get rid of 40 million firearms.

which is akin to disarmament without probable cause. You see we have this concept in this country that you are innocent until proven guilty. What Australia did was assume their people were guilty straight up & then punished them without due process.

Hmmm, good argument......
The libs, I think, would be okay with cancelling part of due process as long as it's for something they believe in.

 

[rightwinger]

Oh, hai there!!!

Can we compare the murder rate in Norway to that of the US?

Is your position that since we can't stop all murders, we should not try to stop any?

If you want to talk murder RATE, you have to discuss illegal handgun use in inner cities, where most of our murders take place.

What you people keep harping on is spree killings, which while tragic and big news items is not a major component of the murder rate in general.

You keep pointing to "other countries" where this isn't an occurrence according to you, yet they do happen.

In effect, what happens is every time there is a big shooting, you try the same tired approach, which is to make it harder for ME to get a firearm.

Just because we can't stop all murders doesn't mean we shouldn't try to stop any. Just because gang bangers and drug lords are shooting it out doesn't mean we should not try to stop murders due to domestic violence, suicide and petty disputes

Our murder rate (4.8) is a national embarassment. The fact that we choose to ignore it is ridiculous