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I don't remember if I was unconscious and I never said I was. This is you ASSUMING facts not in evidence. Most likely I was in some sort of semiconscious state pumped full of pain killers and anesthetics.You were brought into a room that you did not see because you were unconscious, saw that room from a perspective you never had, yet insist your brain made it all up. That, dear readers, is someone determined to reject the evidence of even his own experience.
Well, why do you focus on an abomination like what happened with the desecration of the temple? Care to explain what it is/was?Lol
It is seldom a good practice to denigrate what others are describing as 'spiritual' or 'supernatural', as 'magic'.I limit my explanations to real world causes not magic.
Then concede that science doesn't yet have the knowledge to present fact. Talk about theories and hypotheses. And do not change testimony.Just because we might not yet or ever understand something is not a reason to say that invisible beings are responsible for it.
I never said an NDE was magic.It is seldom a good practice to denigrate what others are describing as 'spiritual' or 'supernatural', as 'magic'.
There is nothing "magical" about descriptions of near death or out of body. It is testimony. Some will take any testimony and dismiss it as random brain-firings or imagination. The end. Build the brick wall around this conclusion and label it 'science'. Settlers vs Pioneers.
I have always said there are things we don't and may never understand so I don't really see your point.Then concede that science doesn't yet have the knowledge to present fact. Talk about theories and hypotheses. And do not change testimony.
Okay, so you don't remember but "most likely" was "semiconscious", even though you don't know. This is what I'm talking about, there is no end of excuses and evasions. I find it difficult to believe that there is anything God could do that would convince you.I don't remember if I was unconscious and I never said I was. This is you ASSUMING facts not in evidence. Most likely I was in some sort of semiconscious state pumped full of pain killers and anesthetics.
So once again I will ask you to stop lying about what I say.
If you want to claim I said something then quote the fucking post and stop making shit up
Oh so I'm somehow being dishonest but people who think OBEs are spiritual who don't have exact recall of all the events of their traumas are 100% honest?Okay, so you don't remember but "most likely" was "semiconscious", even though you don't know. This is what I'm talking about, there is no end of excuses and evasions. I find it difficult to believe that there is anything God could do that would convince you.
Again, wrong word. I am not implying, you are inferring. I am saying you are not accepting any explanation outside of brain firings.And I will repeat for AGAIN that I never once denied that these people experienced something yet you keep implying that I do.
No you said I am dismissing testimony.Again, wrong word. I am not implying, you are inferring. I am saying you are accepting any explanation outside of brain firings.
I am not claiming you have said anything. Note where I did. I am presenting a summation of your position. You have said quite plainly many times is that it is brain activity, nothing more. Or have I misunderstood your position?I think at this point we are at the stage where I must ask you, if you want to claim I said something to quote the post and use MY words not yours because you are not being accurate in your portrayal of what i write.
Dismissing testimony is changing testimony to suit a different position. I testify to an experience of God, and in your own mind/words you change it to brain activity. You hold no belief at all in how and to what I testify. You are certain I misunderstood it.No you said I am dismissing testimony.
I never once said a person did not experience something so I am not dismissing their testimony of the event.
I have a differing opinion of the cause of the event.
That is all.
Clearly.I am not claiming you have said anything. Note where I did. I am presenting a summation of your position. You have said quite plainly many times is that it is brain activity, nothing more. Or have I misunderstood your position?
I never changed your testimony.Dismissing testimony is changing testimony to suit a different position. I testify to an experience of God, and in your own mind/words you change it to brain activity. You hold no belief at all in how and to what I testify. You are certain I misunderstood it.
When they can accurately relate things that they could not possibly have seen and heard, there's good reason to believe them. And I'm not saying you're being dishonest. I'm saying that you're giving an awful lot of weight to "maybe", "likely", "possibly".Oh so I'm somehow being dishonest but people who think OBEs are spiritual who don't have exact recall of all the events of their traumas are 100% honest?
I'm not up to speed on the OBE research, so I'll ask you. Have studies been done on people who were taken into the lab unable to see or hear their surroundings, given an OBE, then had their vision compared to the reality of the room? IOW, did anyone actually check to see if their brain is just making up the vision?Occam's Razor as applied to my experience results in the explanation of me experiencing an OBE was the result of my serious trauma, hypothermia, being in shock and in great pain and being administered powerful drugs. Even if I don't remember being conscious all I would have had to do is open my eyes for a second when being wheeled into the surgery suite in order to be able to visualize the view from above.
Add to that the fact that an OBE can be produced with great reliability in a laboratory setting with nothing but a mild electrical stimulation of a portion of the brain and we have yet another reason to think that there is no mystical cause for an OBE
1. That's going to happen, but at that time it'll be too late to do you much good.I would be convinced that a god exists if he revealed himself the the entire population of the world at the same instant and gave a single message that could not be misinterpreted by anyone. A pretty small feat for a god isn't it?
Then you recognize I clearly understand your position. As I said, your position, as I understand it, is that OBE's and NDE's are all explained by brain action.Clearly.
That is my position because all of the sensations of an OBE can be elicited by stimulation of areas of the brain knowing this I see no reason to see any mystical causes of the same event in other people. The same sensations can be elicited by drugs or even deep mediation and sensory deprivation all of which are well documented ways to induce an OBE.
In other words, easily dismiss my testimony as if I had not spoken. And, as if I have no knowledge of the capabilities of the brain. You limit the brain more than I. My opinion.You believe what you believe I have no obligation to agree with what you believe are the causes of your own experiences.
What a load of rubbish.
Have a listen to yourself babbling on with your pathetic irrelevant justifications for nothing.
Go away.
the physiology of a being by its spiritual content is transformed .... and is an example for the process used in evolution
There, there. You guys can continue arguing, but Colin norris is angry SAF while you're airy SAF.really norris, you refute the evolution of living beings as an adaptive, self directed and continuous process as warranted or otherwise.
"irrelevant" - irregardless, what is your explanation for the metaphysical event.
There, there. You guys can continue arguing, but Colin norris is angry SAF while you're airy SAF.
