A bit more of your merciful god.

[hadit]

Again that's anecdotal. And that example wasn't one of you "peer reviewed" NDEs was it?

And the last thing Doctors and nurses have to worry about is what the guy who died on the table thinks he saw while his brain was starved of oxygen.

And something you seem not to realize is that the particulars of these NDEs are usually reported well after the event happens and that there is more than ample time to piece together events as the person who experienced the NDE talks to people who were there.

So Tom dies on the table and is revived. He had some sort of experience that I don't deny. So let's say his wife and kids were there and in another room. Soon after the NDE these people would be in his room, talking to him, talking to each other etc. Even in a semiconscious state or on sedative drugs Tom hears all these things and they all get encoded as memories of that day he died.

When asked about it later ( weeks, months, years) it is perfectly understandable that his recall isn't perfect and that his story might not be 100% accurate.

Except that these stories are accurate, and often reported very soon after the person wakes up. Look, I understand you don't want to believe and will invent all sorts of excuses, reasons, possibilities to allow yourself to not believe, but when person after person reports things that were impossible for them to see and hear, ultimately you're left with sheer denial.

 

[Blues Man]

Your unbelief in no way means they don't.

I never said that.

But until there is actual proof they exist I'll stick to Occam's Razor

 

[Blues Man]

Except that these stories are accurate, and often reported very soon after the person wakes up. Look, I understand you don't want to believe and will invent all sorts of excuses, reasons, possibilities to allow yourself to not believe, but when person after person reports things that were impossible for them to see and hear, ultimately you're left with sheer denial.

How soon is very soon?

And I never denied that these people experience something. They do.

I don't think we need mysticism and magic to explain it.

The memories of people who are in the midst of a traumatic experience are not perfect. In fact they often can't remember much of the event.

People have a way of filling in fuzzy details.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

It is my concern to expose the bullshit and lies you base your lives on. This is the type of rubbish you frighten the hell out of little kids forcing them to love your filthy God which doesn't exist.
Evangelists have made billions from these lies and you support it. Are you bloody mad?

I'll do another one tomorrow. Its just as hideous.

Not a whole lot of Evangelizing among Talmudic Jews, and very little evangelizing by Christians based on Old Textament Texts.

If you want to understand Christianity, you need to start with The New Testament.

 

[Blues Man]

In my opinion, you haven't a clue. As you keep talking about "comfort" (which is not what I have experienced) I am guessing you have developed a liking for theories that comfort you. You believe everyone else needs comforting and they do the same.

Believing your theories have to be true must be a great comfort to you because you can now believe whatever it is you are striving for--if anything--is clearly enough. Right? Why is comfort so meaningful to you? I recommend trying more eagerness, enthusiasm, and animation. Explore!

You need to slow down and read what I actually wrote.

I never said you experienced comfort.

And my take on what you call spiritual is perfectly valid and in line with what we understand of the brain and human neurology.

And I have said many times there are things we do not and might not ever understand but that is no reason to think there are mystical causes for them

 

[Colin norris]

Not a whole lot of Evangelizing among Talmudic Jews, and very little evangelizing by Christians based on Old Textament Texts.

If you want to understand Christianity, you need to start with The New Testament.

If you really want to understand Christianity, become an atheist.

There is not one provable story in both testaments. There is no god and never has been. You are delusional.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

If you really want to understand Christianity, become an atheist.

There is not one provable story in both testaments. There is no god and never has been. You are delusional.

Ooooh Kay.

That clears that right up.

I thought that limp might be due to a broken leg, now I see it's just from the stick up your ass.

 

[Colin norris]

Ooooh Kay.

That clears that right up.

I thought that limp might be due to a broken leg, now I see it's just from the stick up your ass.

Did I offend your precious little god? Ooooooh. Ill say some prayers and all will be forgiven.
Its not a stick up my arse but it would feel like that to a young kid who is getting shafted by your paedophile clergy.

 

[hadit]

How soon is very soon?

And I never denied that these people experience something. They do.

I don't think we need mysticism and magic to explain it.

The memories of people who are in the midst of a traumatic experience are not perfect. In fact they often can't remember much of the event.

People have a way of filling in fuzzy details.

And "filling in the fuzzy details" means, in these cases, that they can describe accurately events they can't possibly have witnessed. Like I said, you're down to simple denial. It's one thing when someone says they saw something no one else saw, quite another when they say they saw something they couldn't have seen that is verified by others.

 

[Blues Man]

And "filling in the fuzzy details" means, in these cases, that they can describe accurately events they can't possibly have witnessed. Like I said, you're down to simple denial. It's one thing when someone says they saw something no one else saw, quite another when they say they saw something they couldn't have seen that is verified by others.

So you say.

I've done enough reading on the subject and I remain skeptical because I know how unreliable the senses and memory can be.

Let's take for example the bling guy who "saw" the tie a friend bought.

He insisted that his friend never told him what color it was but when interviewed, the friend said she couldn't recall the events of the day well enough to remember if she ever mentioned the color of the tie to him. That's not proof of anything then is it?

You keep going back to this people in the other room thing but like I said the timelines are not clear you have no way of knowing if the event was pieced together from many bits of the day or not.

You lack far too much information

 

[BreezeWood]

There is no evidence of anything spiritual about dying. It simply doesn't exist and is a religious myth. Surely you can see past that rubbish you believe.

there is no evidence for the disposition of the spiritual content of the metaphysical physiology that dissolves into the atmosphere when no longer functioning.

evolution is the proof of the duality of everchanging physiology and its spiritual content - that is nowhere close to resolution.

the physiology of a being by its spiritual content is transformed from a land creature to an avian and is an example for the process used in evolution where a living being from parent to sibling may make a physiological alteration that from that time forward will remain for all successive generalizations.

 

[hadit]

So you say.

I've done enough reading on the subject and I remain skeptical because I know how unreliable the senses and memory can be.

Let's take for example the bling guy who "saw" the tie a friend bought.

He insisted that his friend never told him what color it was but when interviewed, the friend said she couldn't recall the events of the day well enough to remember if she ever mentioned the color of the tie to him. That's not proof of anything then is it?

You keep going back to this people in the other room thing but like I said the timelines are not clear you have no way of knowing if the event was pieced together from many bits of the day or not.

You lack far too much information

And you continue to brush these experiences off as insignificant because you are determined to not believe them. There are other people who have not only described people in other rooms, but objects seen on the roof of the hospital, for example, that were verified. There's just too much to ignore unless you're determined to do so.

 

[Blues Man]

And you continue to brush these experiences off as insignificant because you are determined to not believe them. There are other people who have not only described people in other rooms, but objects seen on the roof of the hospital, for example, that were verified. There's just too much to ignore unless you're determined to do so.

OK for the last time I never denied that people experience something in an NDE so if you want to keep saying that then start quoting the post.

My position and has consistently been that there is no need to think any supernatural , mystical or magical cause exists for these experiences.

So when you want to stop misrepresenting what I say get back to me.

And you say they are verified I have seen no such "verification" other than what you write here.

Those 5 examples you gave all have a rational explanation that doesn;t need magic.

 

[Blues Man]

The Science of Near-Death Experiences

Empirically investigating brushes with the afterlife

www.theatlantic.com

Most of the NDE studies have been retrospective, meaning the researchers looked for people who’d had such an experience to come forward and be interviewed. That poses a couple of problems, scientifically speaking. It means the subjects were self-selecting, so they might not be representative. For instance, people who’d had scary NDEs might have been less eager to tell their stories than people who’d had uplifting ones. (One of the arguments you hear for why NDEs are not hallucinations of the dying brain is that so many of the stories contain similar features; but it’s notable that, while some studies indeed report only the well-known positive experiences, unpleasant NDEs account for a combined 23 percent of reports across a dozen different studies. They get far less attention, and certainly don’t seem to sell nearly as many books.) Most of the interviews took place years after the fact, so memories might have been faulty. And most important, retrospective studies make it pretty much impossible to obtain reliable data on what was actually happening to the subjects’ bodies and brains while they felt their souls were elsewhere.

 

[hadit]

OK for the last time I never denied that people experience something in an NDE so if you want to keep saying that then start quoting the post.

My position and has consistently been that there is no need to think any supernatural , mystical or magical cause exists for these experiences.

So when you want to stop misrepresenting what I say get back to me.

Then don't misrepresent what I say. I'm talking about NDE's and OBE's in which people accurately describe things that are going on in other rooms or in ways that are impossible for them to experience. You ARE denying those.

Now, I've asked you some very specific questions that I don't think you answered. These are important to the topic.

1. When you had your OBE, had you been brought into the room conscious or unconscious? IOW, did you have any prior knowledge of what the room looked like before you were brought into it?
2. During your OBE, did you observe anyone in the room that you did not see before losing consciousness? Of course, that's moot if you were unconscious when you were brought in.
3. You say you observed activity from an above perspective. Did you observe anything from that perspective that you could not have observed from your position on the bed or stretcher?

My questions are because you insist that the brain builds images not from the eyes. Okay, if that is so, your description of the room could resemble reality only by luck, and the chances of getting everything right are vanishingly small, especially if your brain built it from a perspective that it never saw before. Here's the bottom line. If you were brought into a room in an unconscious state but could accurately describe it from a perspective you never saw, why are you claiming that your brain built it out of nothing?

 

[Clyde 154]

So many Bible stories begin with the slaughter of innocent children. Consider the flood, the Egyptian first born , Herod killing baby boys. It's a pretty constant theme.

Innocent children die every minute around the world. Do not confuse "justified judgement" with slaughter.......the children in question were doomed to grow into adulthood to lose their immortal souls once they reached the age of accountability and could freely reason between good and evil if their parents where not subject to judgment. And it grieved or sorrowed the Lord when man was choosing evil over good continually and had to be judged to death. (Genesis 6:6)

When Children die their souls go directly to God. As the little ones and children, "...... have no knowledge of good and evil........" -- Deut. 1:39 When David's child died David knew that he was with God and David still had hope of being with his child again because a child is innocent of sin due to a lack of knowledge (2 Sam. 12:15-23). David knew the child could never come back, but David could go where the child was. David lost another child, (Absalom), but David had no such hope for this child because he was at an accountable age and could sin (2 Sam. 18:33, 19:4)

The children were never judged........its their parents and their use of paganistic ritualism that was being judged. These children's parents had already condemned their children to hell if God had not acted with righteous judgment.

 

[Colin norris]

there is no evidence for the disposition of the spiritual content of the metaphysical physiology that dissolves into the atmosphere when no longer functioning.

evolution is the proof of the duality of everchanging physiology and its spiritual content - that is nowhere close to resolution.

View attachment 622328

the physiology of a being by its spiritual content is transformed from a land creature to an avian and is an example for the process used in evolution where a living being from parent to sibling may make a physiological alteration that from that time forward will remain for all successive generalizations.

What a load of rubbish.
Have a listen to yourself babbling on with your pathetic irrelevant justifications for nothing.
Go away.

 

[buttercup]

As I've noted before, you're determined to not believe and so you simply won't, no matter what.

I think you hit the nail on the head there. There are some people who will try to explain away anything and everything, no matter what. It reminds me of what happened in Jesus' day, when He performed miracles yet his hard-hearted enemies still didn't believe, even after seeing miracles right before their eyes. It just goes to show that the same people who demand physical evidence for something non-physical (lol) would reject anything no matter what it is, because the problem is not insufficient evidence, the problem is them, their hard-heartedness and spiritual blindness.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

Did I offend your precious little god? Ooooooh. Ill say some prayers and all will be forgiven.
Its not a stick up my arse but it would feel like that to a young kid who is getting shafted by your paedophile clergy.

People like you make me hope hell has a glass ceiling so the rest of us can watch from above.

You're one sick, sad, twisted son of a bitch for sure and the nice thing is, whether it's a god, "the Universe", or just Karma, people tend to get what they deserve in the end.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

Those 5 examples you gave all have a rational explanation that doesn;t need magic.

Calling something "magic" is simply an admission we don't yet understand it.