A bit more of your merciful god.

[hadit]

Coma patients are not brain dead and all their sensory organs still work. It's well known that a familiar voice is one of the best recovery tools for coma patients.

I think the testimony of a child is always questionable. He may have seen pictures before and not remembered

Life flashing before the eyes isn't mystical it's just a cascade of memories

And if a person was blind their entire life then she wouldn't know what a pen looked like, would have no concept of colors etc.

That's no different than a person who is deaf from birth telling you they heard trumpets being played.

You are being deliberately obtuse. Again, you continue to ignore that people see and hear things that it is impossible for them to see and hear. And it is miraculous that a blind person would be not only able to see, but would be able to identify objects that she has never seen before. This is the whole point, people report things that are impossible for them to have seen, yet they do it accurately.

You are left with trying to deny something you can't. The bottom line is, you don't want to believe this so will continue making up every possible excuse you can to deny it.

 

[Blues Man]

You are being deliberately obtuse. Again, you continue to ignore that people see and hear things that it is impossible for them to see and hear. And it is miraculous that a blind person would be not only able to see, but would be able to identify objects that she has never seen before. This is the whole point, people report things that are impossible for them to have seen, yet they do it accurately.

You are left with trying to deny something you can't. The bottom line is, you don't want to believe this so will continue making up every possible excuse you can to deny it.

Those are anecdotal and would not be considered evidence in any way shape or form

And all of the the alternate scenarios I posted are just as legit as those 5 examples you provided

And I want proof. actual verifiable proof.

As I said before the main component of a NDE is the OBE and that can be elicited with electrical stimulation of the brain there is no reason to think that any other aspect of them cannot be recreated in the same way once we understand the brain more.

The thing is that people actually see and hear far more than they are aware of so a person saying they see or hear something they can't consciously recall is nothing new



There is no need to say any causes of such experiences is supernatural when we can replicate them with a variety of other methods

And a blind from birth person doesn't just see a color and know what that color is because he has no concept of that color just like a deaf person had no concept of the sound of a trumpet.

 

[Ringtone]

In judges, chapter 11, jephthah made a deal with god if he was victorious over the Ammonites, he would sacrifice the first person to greet him on his return, by burning them alive.
He did indeed win and upon his return, was gleefully greeted by his daughter. Sadly the news was not goid. He cooked her a couple of months later to satisfy this ghost they believed in.
God never said a word apparently but when Abraham prepared his son to be barbecued as a sacrifice, at the very last minute, somehow Abraham got an email from God who suggested he spare him.

Its a shame your merciful god didn't show the same compassion for jephthats daughter as ge did for Isaac. This is the stuff you teach little kids.
How can you be part of such horrific and wicked teachings of your filthy god? Is that where you get your morals from?

LOL! Jephthah did not kill his daughter. Human sacrifice was forbiden under Mosaic law in the first place! Rather, Jephthah expected that God would move an exemplary speciman of Jephthas' sacraficial stock to present itself upon the opening of the door to his home. The homes of royalty included the roofed, albeit, open structures and gardens beyond the enclosed rooms of the household, where guests were entertained and the very finest sacrficial stock were kept and fed.

Difficult Questions: Did Jephthah Sacrifice His Daughter? — A Deeper Word

From time to time, we dig into Scripture and seek answers to difficult questions from the Bible. Today, we are asking the question: “Did Jephthah sacrifice his daughter to the Lord as a burnt offering?” We see in Judges 11 that the Israelite Jephthah promised God that he would sacrifice as a burnt

www.jimandjanean.com

 

[surada]

And yet it did...

Nope. The Tigris and Euphrates river basins are flat and they used to flood from time to time when snow melt from the Zagros mountains combined with heavy spring rains. The flood footprint is 150 miles wide and 350 miles south to the Persian Gulf. No doubt that was their whole world. .. certainly far further than they could see or travel.

 

[Meriweather]

So now an OBE isn't spiritual? WHat about NDE ?

One of my defining attributes of a spiritual experience is the presence of another spirit being. As I understand it, not all out of body experiences include that aspect. It might simply be a description of one's own spirit leaving his/her body--i.e. a spirit having an experience of the physical world from a new perspective.

Some out-of-body experiences confirm that our existence is not dependent upon a physical body, that human existence consists of body, mind, spirit. Spirit has access to body and mind, but is only dependent upon them for a physical experience.

You may have heard it said that we are not physical beings searching for spiritual experiences; we are spiritual beings wanting a physical experience.

 

[Meriweather]

And I want proof. actual verifiable proof.

Then you will have to want. And that is your loss as it places a great obstacle to both knowledge and understanding. Again, the settler versus the pioneer/explorer. Both have reasons for their choice.

 

[Blues Man]

Then you will have to want. And that is your loss as it places a great obstacle to both knowledge and understanding. Again, the settler versus the pioneer/explorer. Both have reasons for their choice.

No it really doesn't

You cannot understand things if you simply believe what you are told.

And there is a difference between believing and knowing.

Ancient humans used to believe thunder storms were caused by gods. We KNOW they are caused by specific types of weather conditions

 

[Blues Man]

One of my defining attributes of a spiritual experience is the presence of another spirit being. As I understand it, not all out of body experiences include that aspect. It might simply be a description of one's own spirit leaving his/her body--i.e. a spirit having an experience of the physical world from a new perspective.

Some out-of-body experiences confirm that our existence is not dependent upon a physical body, that human existence consists of body, mind, spirit. Spirit has access to body and mind, but is only dependent upon them for a physical experience.

You may have heard it said that we are not physical beings searching for spiritual experiences; we are spiritual beings wanting a physical experience.

Our existence is absolutely dependent on our bodies as there is no mind body duality.

The very essence of what you call the self can be changed by a traumatic brain injury if what makes you you was a separate spirit then there would be no way to alter who you are by a mere injury.

 

[Meriweather]

You cannot understand things if you simply believe what you are told.

We can believe what is experienced and tested. If you are saying you think all people of faith are merely examples of people who only believe something they have been, you may want to do further research--both of the people and of what is actually told.

 

[Meriweather]

Ancient humans used to believe thunder storms were caused by gods. We KNOW they are caused by specific types of weather conditions

How is this apropos to our current discussion?

 

[Meriweather]

The very essence of what you call the self can be changed by a traumatic brain injury if what makes you you was a separate spirit then there would be no way to alter who you are by a mere injury.

Of course there is. The spirit works with what is there. I have seen this quite plainly in family members who have suffered from Ahlzheimer's.

 

[BreezeWood]

where's the evidence of that?

mays do not signify certainty.

Rubbish. There is nothing leaves the body after death nor is there evidence for it.
Death is not a step for anything other than the end of you. Grow up.

and a spiritual content that directs its terrestrial existence ...

an individual life is a step that evolves from one generation to the next is self evident and demonstrative w/ a spiritual content that is the link from one to another - that changes the physiology of the beings that is associated in the succession of births.

core understanding of metaphysical spiritualism has nothing to do with the desert religions that have abandoned the core religion of antiquity that makes evolution possible.

 

[Colin norris]

an individual life is a step that evolves from one generation to the next is self evident and demonstrative w/ a spiritual content that is the link from one to another - that changes the physiology of the beings that is associated in the succession of births.

core understanding of metaphysical spiritualism has nothing to do with the desert religions that have abandoned the core religion of antiquity that makes evolution possible.

There is no evidence of anything spiritual about dying. It simply doesn't exist and is a religious myth. Surely you can see past that rubbish you believe.

 

[Blues Man]

We can believe what is experienced and tested. If you are saying you think all people of faith are merely examples of people who only believe something they have been, you may want to do further research--both of the people and of what is actually told.

TEsted?

How has the existence of spirit beings been tested?

And as I said that experience can be explained without the need for mysticism and magic.

 

[Blues Man]

How is this apropos to our current discussion?

it's the difference between believing and knowing

 

[Blues Man]

Of course there is. The spirit works with what is there. I have seen this quite plainly in family members who have suffered from Ahlzheimer's.

Yeah OK

What you see in Alzheimer's patients is the erosion of a person's sense of self if there was a spirit that sense of self would remain in tact.

But I can see how it is comforting to believe that somehow someway everyone lives forever as a perfect version of themselves.

 

[hadit]

Those are anecdotal and would not be considered evidence in any way shape or form

And all of the the alternate scenarios I posted are just as legit as those 5 examples you provided

And I want proof. actual verifiable proof.

As I said before the main component of a NDE is the OBE and that can be elicited with electrical stimulation of the brain there is no reason to think that any other aspect of them cannot be recreated in the same way once we understand the brain more.

The thing is that people actually see and hear far more than they are aware of so a person saying they see or hear something they can't consciously recall is nothing new



There is no need to say any causes of such experiences is supernatural when we can replicate them with a variety of other methods

And a blind from birth person doesn't just see a color and know what that color is because he has no concept of that color just like a deaf person had no concept of the sound of a trumpet.

When you can replicate a person seeing accurately what's going on in another room, who is in that room, what they are wearing, and what they are saying, let me know. As far as anecdotal, you forget (conveniently) that there are doctors and nurses present as well, and if they disputed the story, it would be disputed. As I've noted before, you're determined to not believe and so you simply won't, no matter what.

 

[Blues Man]

When you can replicate a person seeing accurately what's going on in another room, who is in that room, what they are wearing, and what they are saying, let me know. As far as anecdotal, you forget (conveniently) that there are doctors and nurses present as well, and if they disputed the story, it would be disputed. As I've noted before, you're determined to not believe and so you simply won't, no matter what.

Again that's anecdotal. And that example wasn't one of you "peer reviewed" NDEs was it?

And the last thing Doctors and nurses have to worry about is what the guy who died on the table thinks he saw while his brain was starved of oxygen.

And something you seem not to realize is that the particulars of these NDEs are usually reported well after the event happens and that there is more than ample time to piece together events as the person who experienced the NDE talks to people who were there.

So Tom dies on the table and is revived. He had some sort of experience that I don't deny. So let's say his wife and kids were there and in another room. Soon after the NDE these people would be in his room, talking to him, talking to each other etc. Even in a semiconscious state or on sedative drugs Tom hears all these things and they all get encoded as memories of that day he died.

When asked about it later ( weeks, months, years) it is perfectly understandable that his recall isn't perfect and that his story might not be 100% accurate.

 

[JustAGuy1]

Your belief that there is a soul does not mean souls exist.

Your unbelief in no way means they don't.

 

[Meriweather]

But I can see how it is comforting to believe that somehow someway everyone lives forever as a perfect version of themselves.

In my opinion, you haven't a clue. As you keep talking about "comfort" (which is not what I have experienced) I am guessing you have developed a liking for theories that comfort you. You believe everyone else needs comforting and they do the same.

Believing your theories have to be true must be a great comfort to you because you can now believe whatever it is you are striving for--if anything--is clearly enough. Right? Why is comfort so meaningful to you? I recommend trying more eagerness, enthusiasm, and animation. Explore!